*wipes away a tear*

Thanks for al the concern, folks. Really appreciate it. Rekindles my hope in humanity as a species.

Also thanks to Mike for bringing this thread to my attention.

Anyway, I'm on an extended leave from playing mmorpgs for a while. It seems I lost that loving feeling. Even the urge to argue about them :)

I do miss talking with you guys, though.

<3

edit: Dark Pony's sig may be terribly outdated. He doesn't feel like doing something about it at the moment.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by DarkPony

Don't steal identities, guys. It's worse than insulting prophets.

p.s. Hi Tardcore. Glad to see you alive and kicking. <3

 

 

 

YOU!!??

 

 

WTF HAVE YOU

 

 

BEEN MAN!!??

 

. . . . Er . . . I mean yeah, likewise

 

 

I am on a mission from god. He instructed me to spend my free time making a kick-ass armor mod for Skyrim rather than waste my time telling people "I told you so" on the mmorpg.com GW2 section. ^_^

Don't steal identities, guys. It's worse than insulting prophets.

p.s. Hi Tardcore. Glad to see you alive and kicking. <3

Hi gusy.

Not hatin', just realizing it's just another themepark with dedicated rides in dedicated places, as shallow as any other game that came from the same mold and in general staying as far away from it as possible because I am more and more convinced that most mmorpgs that are intended for a very large audience are simply not for me (anymore). Hence my absence in the past months. edit: and my terribly outdated sig :P

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by DarkPony

The problem is though, that by doing so, they leave experienced gamers out in the cold because we devoured their simplified content in a very short time and are left boring our brains out V_V

---

 

Well, that is YOUR problem only, not the game's nor developer's.

Games do not need to be complex to keep player's attention, YOU need complexity to keep YOUR attention.

Which boils down to the annoying issue that some people are not able to understand that world does not spin around their tiny self and there are others with different mindsets, needs and preferences.

I'm kind of humbled by your implied notion that I am the only experienced mmorpg gamer on this planet.

I'd love to say it's true but I think there are at least a few tens of millions more.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Games. Not all games , but multiplayer online games , must be complex in order to survive.

Ok, prove it.

The lack of truly big success stories of easy mode, hand holding mmorpgs with cookie cutter themepark formula's should be plenty of evidence I reckon. (WOW arguably falls in that category and kills my statement but then again ... it's also kind of complex. As to really do well in WOW it requires a lot of organization and / or mastery).

But personally I'd go a step further and say that any game that aims to hold a player's attention for a really long time, should be complex. Whether it is single or multiplayer, rts or rpg, etc.

But it's not.

You see, you can't look at something that failed and then say "because it wasn't x it failed'.

So, for instance, pick your favorite "failed" mmo (if indeed they really failed, I suspect that just because "millions" of players aren't playing them some consider them failed) and then just make the statment "because it didn't have a giant pink bunny spinning around in the sky it failed".

Well, I don't know one "failed" mmo that had a giant pink bunny so of course that is the reason.

Or, we can put aside our "I like x therefore any game that doesn't succeed and didn't have X must have failed becuase of it" mentality and really look at the individual reasons they "failed".

I very much understand your point of view and you are right in your overall approach to how games should be "judged". (i.e. by leaving one's own subjectivity at the door).

But ...

The lack of complexity is a reaccuring theme in many games in the past years. To exagerate it a bit: the catering for impatient, window licking water heads who want their epics right away and can't deal with unexpected set backs or any perceived injustices in their multiplayer games. This results in an overkill of streamlining game mechanics (cross realm dungeon finders, teleporting anywhere, pointers and breadcrumbs, cookie cutter battlegrounds, simplified crafting, etc), as well as dumbing down anything that could be deemed "too complex for the average gamer".

I.e. a logical result of a game designer's quest to aim for the biggest possible target audience.

The problem is though, that by doing so, they leave experienced gamers out in the cold because we devoured their simplified content in a very short time and are left boring our brains out V_V

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Tezcat

We just need a graphics update for UO. The game is still going but just needs modern polish to capture the new eneration.

Nah .. we don't need an update to old ideas. I thought people want innovation instead of cloning the past.

I knew the poster child for "anti-complexity" would show up here soon, welcome to the discussion. 

lol :)

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by DarkPony

I hereby want to express that the OP's statement is fully endorsed, undersigned and welcomed by the Anti Hoofed Animal Defamation League.

Dark Pony,

AHADL spokesperson.

 

Yet when I, and others, said the same thing almost a year ago in protect of SWTOR you were sharply against said notion.

 

What changed DarkPony :I?

For the love of everything that is sacred to you, myself or anyone else, I don't think that I ever opposed a similar statement or said that games are better off dumbed down with shallow learning curves or whatever. You are welcome to dig it up but I'm pretty sure that's an effort in futility.

I might have defended SWTOR by trying to point out things in which I thought it could end up being complex (or complex enough) back in the theorycrafting, post launch days, but the notion that games are more fun in the long run if they challenge you with complexity is something I never have and never will oppose, Faded.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Games. Not all games , but multiplayer online games , must be complex in order to survive.

Ok, prove it.

The lack of truly big success stories of easy mode, hand holding mmorpgs with cookie cutter themepark formula's should be plenty of evidence I reckon. (WOW arguably falls in that category and kills my statement but then again ... it's also kind of complex. As to really do well in WOW it requires a lot of organization and / or mastery).

But personally I'd go a step further and say that any game that aims to hold a player's attention for a really long time, should be complex. Whether it is single or multiplayer, rts or rpg, etc.

I hereby want to express that the OP's statement is fully endorsed, undersigned and welcomed by the Anti Hoofed Animal Defamation League.

Dark Pony,

AHADL spokesperson.

Great stuff. I really appreciate how they somehow have the money, time and especially the resolve to keep editing and changing their end game mechanics in big ways. I guess not having the tempting prospect of huge initial revenues from box sales makes them more cautious in really assuring long term playability before launch because that's where their income will be coming from; people liking PoE enough to occasionally spend some cash on it.

What I've seen so far in the beta and reading stuff like this makes me think that this could very well end up being a huge indy success. I really hope more media will pick up on this title. They deserve all the exposure they can get.

Originally posted by timtrack

Originally posted by chivien
[mod edit]

Yes.

p.s. Just returned yesterday from a three week holiday to Indonesia. Good food, stunning nature, perfect climate and the nicest, most friendly people I ever met. Reefs, volcanoes, jungle, cool Bintangs and kretek cigarretes available everywhere. Amazing country, man. Wish I could go back right away because there's so much more to see.  V_V

Originally posted by Darkmoth

I'm sure it's an excellent book. Especially the part where the hero is nearly killed by the villian, so he farms loose change from vagrants until he can buy better gear.

Hehe.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by feroshus

Who's this really gonna affect, the 5 people that don't already own D3? Blizzard always has, and always will do whatever they need to do to ensure the security of their games. This is just more pointless crying from more pointless crybabies. Newsflash...they don't care what you think! They make video games, you can play them or not play them.

D2 had a ton of crazy problems for years after it launched, it still turned out to be an amazing gaming experience overall. Just like D3 will ; )

Damage control.

There are probably good reasons for them to do so but in the end, the amount of compromises asked from players to play a hack & slasher with a functioning RMAH is starting to add up.

There's tons of players who never intend to buy stuff on the AH with real money, yet they;

- Have to play the game online

- Are restricted in their ip ranges

- Can only play a trial the first three days

- Suffer atrocious drop rates while playing the game (to stimulate the amount of AH use)

- Endure a very hard "endgame" without the right gear (to stimulate the amount of AH use)

- Have to spend a lot of gold on repairs as a major gold sink (to stimulate the amount of RMAH use)

- Need to worry about their account security and take more extensive precautions compared to other games.

:s

 

- True

- Not true except for real money auction house.

- True only for digital downloads but still true even if you have already played the trial and have capped your toon at 13. Box sales get full immmediate access to all game features.

- False. Drop rates are fine and were recently adjusted.

- False. Endgame has been adjusted and why would anyone want an easymode endgame anyway? People want it both ways now?

- False repair expense is moderate and easily managed with normal play.

- True but that's not Blizzard's fault. The fault lies with account thieves and the dumbass gamers who have supported the RMT black market.

It's pretty difficult to speak authoritatively about gameplay issues with a game you have not purchased isn't it?

Is it your fangenda shining through or are all those people complaining about these issues wrong?

Originally posted by feroshus

Who's this really gonna affect, the 5 people that don't already own D3? Blizzard always has, and always will do whatever they need to do to ensure the security of their games. This is just more pointless crying from more pointless crybabies. Newsflash...they don't care what you think! They make video games, you can play them or not play them.

D2 had a ton of crazy problems for years after it launched, it still turned out to be an amazing gaming experience overall. Just like D3 will ; )

Damage control.

There are probably good reasons for them to do so but in the end, the amount of compromises asked from players to play a hack & slasher with a functioning RMAH is starting to add up.

There's tons of players who never intend to buy stuff on the AH with real money, yet they;

- Have to play the game online

- Are restricted in their ip ranges

- Can only play a trial the first three days

- Suffer atrocious drop rates while playing the game (to stimulate the amount of AH use)

- Endure a very hard "endgame" without the right gear (to stimulate the amount of AH use)

- Have to spend a lot of gold on repairs as a major gold sink (to stimulate the amount of RMAH use)

- Need to worry about their account security and take more extensive precautions compared to other games.

:s

Wut?

Wow ...

They must have some serious illegal activity issues to even consider this.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by DarkPony

Have a poll with that, bro.

 

Yep was adding it.

Oops, sorry.

Personally I think much of the game's attraction lies in its payment model. It is a "unique selling point" for many people.

Have a poll with that, bro.

That's what I said of my wife while still on our honeymoon. Without a doubt the best possible wife ever.

And look at her now ... 400 pounds of anger and spite burping "DARKPONY BRING ME MA WAFFLE!" from the stinky couch over yonder.

Lucky for me this was a hypothetical example but first impressions are often rosy colored. Don't let them fool you in drawing premature conclusions.