Been what, two weeks since anyones posted in this forum? Apathy, the silent killer. Anyway, since Alganon is adding PvP I'm making a discussion thread because someone has to.

Originally posted by Ajmags

nor deleted. Apparently you can't make a joke anymore on forums these days.  MMOs are serious business.

As multi-million dollar projects, they are =)

Us gamers only lose time and maybe $50 when an MMO fails. Can't imagine the hell that is Henrick's life atm if 150 is really the pop during peak hours.

Never played MO so I can't really comment, but EVE and DF are both solid sandbox titles IMO. DF has a solid foundation but certainly isn't perfect atm, but AV have proven themselves devoted to the title and I can see it growing into the game everyone had hoped it would be at launch. When I played it, a few months after launch, all the bugs/exploits/etc that ruined launch were gone far as I could tell. I don't think any sandbox title is going to launch in the state we wish it would, but a good sandbox developer will continue working on the game until it meets or exceeds those original expectations and becomes the virtual world any good sandbox title should be. While launch is critical to the success of any game, and the key features that one can consider 'endgame' for a sandbox(usually territory control) needs to be in place so people can at least play the game, its what a developer does following the games launch that will really determine its future.

You could wait outside a busy lowsec station with a high dps gang and use a large but fast ship (like a minmatar battleship) to bump the crap out of undocking vessels so they can't dock back into the station. Last gank I fell victim to at least.

Last time I started a thread like this it was for TERA and despite the naysayer comments that little known game now gets weekly news (check my history if you don't believe me). Now ArcheAge is starting to surface with real information and no forum yet again... Come on MMORPG, a scam like Age of Mourning still has a forum running but what might be the sleeper sandbox hit of the next decade is non-existent on your site.

Who says wormhole space has to be in the past? No matter what, even if my sleeper theory is bunk, I am positive just by naming the expansion Apocrypha they admitted to giving us information of "questionable authenticity". I'm sure all the pieces are there, but they certainly have crafted one hell of a mystery for us to unravel. By this summer I'll be capable of soloing c4 sites and able to find more clues. I just hope you don't need to run c6 sites to find everything needed to solve it... last time I found a c6 I also found a phoenix, chimera, archon, nidhoggur and 3 moros on dscan.

I know EVE lore tells us the sleepers are an ancient and mysterious race, but what if thats just to mislead us capsuleers from discovering the truth about wormhole space.

The expansion which brought us wormhole space, Apocrypha, even the name hints at the fact CCP purposely feeds us false information on the subject.

There are quite a few reasons to suspect something fishy about what we've been told about sleepers, hints CCP put in for anyone curious enough to uncover the truth. For one thing, if sleeper drones have been around for countless centuries, why do many of them appear in pristine condition like they just got off an assembly line?

I don't think sleepers are an ancient race at all, quite to the contrary in fact. There is one thing in particular has convinced me of this, the Cartesian Temporal Coordinator. For those of you not familiar with this item, its a salvage item from sleeper drones.

Here's the description you find on one.

"At first glance this coordinator appears to be a common enough piece of equipment, albeit an odd one to be found inside a drone. Designed to plot various points in time across a potentially infinite period, these devices are often used for scientific calculations.

For some unknown reason, this particular coordinator is configured to synchronize its processing speed in time with the distance travelled between two points. What purpose this serves remains a mystery, but the object?s basic functionality can be reconfigured. With the addition of a few other components, it would allow electronics systems to more easily withstand the interference from subspace distortion."

I've made enough in a week scanning down wormholes, clearing sites and salvaging wrecks to pay for 3 months of playtime, but its not the easiest way necessarily and you might still need to do a bit more training. I was able to sustain my account with PLEX doing 4s but its slower and less interesting work with no chance of pvp.

Originally posted by tro44_1

1) What defines a Sandbox MMORPG from the other subgenre MMO?

2) Can there be Classes in Sandbox? Cause I remember Elder Scroll:4 having classes at the start of the game.

3) How Big does the world have to be inorder to stay balanced, but stay tuned to being Sandbox? (compare it to something in another game so we get a idea)

4) Do All Sandbox have to have no Auto Attack, and no Targeting, like Darkfall and Mortal Online, in order for it to be considered a Sandbox MMORPG?

5)Sand Box mmos cant have Factions?

6) Does everything have to be Guild vs Guild oriented?

7) In well done Sandbox MMORPG (I dont know a exmple), How does the game Balance out Guild combat, so lower populated Guild still have fun compared to High Populated Guilds?

8) Does Sandbox allways have to have Friendly Fire?

----------------------------------

 

If I think of any other questions, Iall try to add them. Thanks

1) That gameplay is ultimately driven by player interaction and not scripted content.

2) Yeah, why not...

3)Depends on the game?

4) No.

5) I think, like with EVE and Darkfall, there can be NPC factions that you can choose to fight for but ultimately players should be free to ignore those factions and create their own.

6) No.

7) Not even sure how to answer this. Zerging will happen and obviously having more people gives one side an advantage, won't guarantee them victory in EVE or Darkfall but certainly gives them an upperhand.

8) No.

These are just my opinions, the response to #1 is the only thing I truly believe should define what is "sandbox" and what isn't, and with this definition a sandbox game certainly isn't defined by FFA PVP even if the most popular games in the genre happen to revolve around it.

Necro thread =)

Originally posted by Jimmac

Yeah it would take hours to fly from one side of the universe to the other if you went directly across. 

That's assuming you don't get blown up going through the gates in 0.0 and lowsec, of which there would be many. Also like someone else said, there is no purpose at all for making such a trip, unless you are doing it just to do it or for a race, or some other user created activity. 

EDIT: Oh and there are also wormhole systems. I think there are half the number of wormhole systems as there are non wormhole systems. So see that picture above? That's only 2/3s of the solar systems in the game. And of that 1/3 of systems in wormhole space, you can't just fly directly across since there are no jumpgates.

You have to manually probe down each wormhole, or get a bookmark from a buddy who scanned one down. Wormhole systems are never connected for more than a few days to another system of any kind, so the "route" through any number of wormhole systems is never static. 

Actually, the main route to any wormhole is static, just not the sense you mean. Each wormhole system has a "static" wormhole(s) in it. While it connects to a new system everytime an old one closes and new one pops up, a static wormhole is the only wormhole that will always be in that system and will always connect to a specific type of system(highsec, lowsec, nullsec, c1-6 wormhole systems).

No mention of T'Amber leaving?

Originally posted by choujiofkono

    Snore fest.  Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-pew-pew-turn around-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-shoot rocks-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-pew-pew-pew-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-Jump-jump-jump-.  Log out.  Log in the next day.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  Buy a bigger ship.  Do the same thing for the next 5 yrs and call yourself elite gamers.  etc. etc. 

You could play EVE like its a second job, or you could actually try and have fun while playing. From my experience, the legitimate, consistent ways to make ISK grow extremely stale after awhile. Thats why you need to use some of that ISK you grinded to actually go out and explore New Eden. I was getting burned out from mission running this week so I decided to setup a ratting BC and just explore nullsec while trying to earn back the ISK I spent on the ship. Already made my ISK back (after 1 night), even with spending hours cloaked while pesky pirate groups hunted me. Most importantly, I had more fun doing it than I could ever have in highsec.

Same with WH space and lowsec, the potential gankers lying in wait adds to the enjoyment IMO. Highsec is a good place to grind ISK relatively risk free and cut your teeth learning the basics, but if you never leave you'll never learn what EVE has to offer.

Originally posted by Malcanis

If all this is purely about a vanity shop for Incarna, then, you know, whatever. Incarna cost them a shit-ton to develop, and it's a way to pay for that expansion without charging for the expansion. Looked at in that perspective, the thing wouldn't be wholly unreasonable. In fact a lot of people would probably be happy with that structure and thinking about it, I'd be OK with it. Incarna is basically a whole new game (whether its a good game is a seperate issue, so let's not get in to that) that we're getting for free. We're going to play it for free. It'll be free for us to play. So, microtransactions: fair enough. Kind of hard to argue against em on that basis.

But the instant items for spaceships appear, then we're not only on the slippery slope but strapping on our skis and yelling HEY WATCH THIS.

They didn't even mention vanity items for Incarna and I doubt they would do MT for that tbh. All they are doing is adding the respec cards, I honestly doubt they would ever add any other form of MT other than the current PLEX and soon to be added respec cards.

I think CCP is smart enough to understand their own playerbase's distaste for F2P style cashshops and would never attempt to sell actual items. The respec cards will probably sell like hotcakes and give them the needed additional revenue, won't be gamebreaking considering they just let you remap for a fee, and ultimately will serve the same purpose PLEX does; giving players with more money than time the option to legally transfer RL $'s into ISK.

Unless I'm missing something, where did you get info on MT vanity items for Incarna?

Ok, I admit to just now reading the article. Honestly I don't see what the problem is, all they mentioned was the respec cards. I know it gives you an advantage but its not a bad thing IMO. The biggest complaint about EVE is permanent advantage of older players to new ones. Having started in 9/09 and just passing 20mil SP this week, I know its not as bad as detractors constantly make it out to be. However, if I had the option to pay 350m and respec when I wanted to, I would be way past 20mil right now. Even at maximum possible SP per hour it still takes over 2 decades to train every skill in EVE to V. Giving people the option to respec will just be a godsend to those starting out, since once you have a certain amount of 'core' skills its pretty easy to set a specific map past that, the problem is starting out you need mem/int for learning skills, int/mem for engineering/mechanic/electronic/science skills, mem/per for drone skills, int/per for navigation skills and per/will for spaceship command and gunnery/missile skills and if you want to train anything outside combat or just leadership skills... Its a nightmare.

tl:dr I think the respec card will mostly be used by 1-2 year old characters and even then no ones catching up to '03 characters anytime soon.

We'll see how it pans out. If they stick to fluff items and the respec, then I can stomach it. Actually, the respec thing is something I'd take advantage of potentially. I already have my account paid till '11 with PLEX so dropping some ISK on a respec isn't that farfetched for me.

The moment they start selling something gamebreaking with MT though...

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by TheHatter

Originally posted by Wycliffe

 Ultimately Incarna will give EVE something it simply lacks; a forum for casual ingame socialization.

Exactly. That an a connection with your character.

So you want a chatroom with fancy graphics and a cool avatar and you're willing to pay $15 a month for that?

Call me crazy or old fashion but I thought Eve was about blowing up internet spaceships.  Where did we lose sight of that?

 

Le sigh.

Incarna is an "as well as" not an "instead of". Incarna also means that there's a massive potential to add new content that wont fuck up what already exists in the way that adding a new ship class will. Once the basic Incarna thing is launched, they can free up a lot of dev resources to other stuff, but they can still keep developing the Incarna side, as I hope they will.

Incarna needn't just be about new players who "need a human avatar to connect". It answers one of the biggest questions that faces EVE players: "I am still interested in the EVE universe and what goes on there, but I'm bored of flying spaceships. What can I do?"

Currently, the only answer is "Create SHC/Kugu account and shittalk :CCP: and also whatever -A-lliance is the current public opinion whipping boy." Now there is the potential - notice I say potential - for being able to do genuinely different things.

Exactly, Incarna is not taking away from anything it is just adding more options.

I'm really excited about the effect this expansion will have on EVE. I can even imagine the immediate impact it will have on new players. Think about when you first started playing EVE; unless you started out with friends I imagine your experience was like mine, rather lonely. Aside from SWA chat and the occasional chatter in local, the only people you see are undocking at stations or jumping at gates. Its not like other MMOs where you run some newbie quests alongside other newbs and spark up a conversation.

Incarna will change EVE greatly in just this way alone. Stations with tutorial agents always seem packed with new players, with WiS those new players can a break from running tutorials and meet other aspiring capsuleers. Mission runners as well, stations with the best agents always have a lot of people in them. Instead of spinning our spaceships when we start to get burned out from regular gameplay, we'll be socializing with people who we might have flown by a dozen times earlier that day.

I'm looking forward to Incarna even though I probably won't be taking advantage of the feature too often. EVE is a game in which is ultimately driven by player interaction; however except for in corp/alliance channels most people don't socialize, the major hubs like Jita are constantly spammed with scam contracts and other garbage, and most random encounters end with corpses floating in space. Ultimately Incarna will give EVE something it simply lacks; a forum for casual ingame socialization.

Originally posted by JDGalis

Wyclife, actually people are seeing it the other way around lol. People crying that it so PVE focused, and barley took notice of the Note of hardware upgrades for fleet fights. I'm just calling that because that is what i'm seeing on  these forums lol

They are expanding PVE but thats what EVE is lacking atm. I don't see how improving on that will take away from the sandbox, its just giving players more options. Incursions additional PVE content sounds interesting and people seem to enjoy the live events. For the most part it seems like PVP just needs some balance/bugs worked out, adjustment to the new sov system, and getting server performance back to pre-Dominion levels. While I don't believe Incursions will be changing the sov system, the performance issue is addressed on the expansions website and I wouldn't be suprised if rockets or other problems get solved as well.

After Incarna, CCP should consider doing a PVP-centric expansion for winter of 2011.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Yeah, well there was a chance to help burn -A- to the ground, and I'm only human - you can't expect me to resist temptation like that.

I will say that I've been surprised and pleased by the improvement in the state of the server. It's by no means perfect, but the difference is definitely there. Shame to took something close to a player uprising to light a fire under CCP's ass and get them actually doing stuff but eh. Anyway, fights up to 300 or so are silky-smooth now, it seems, and last night with 800+ in local, I was getting 2-3 mins locktimes and module lag, but apart from that it was managable - the kind of performance we were seeing with 1200-1400 in 2009. So I'd say that CCP have made up about 2/3 of the ground that they lost with Tyrannis/Dominion.

If we can get reliable lag-free fights of 256 vs 256 on unreinforced nodes, then as far as I'm concerned, CCP have held up their end of the deal. That is by anyone's definition, a fleet fight: 1 full fleet vs another full fleet. Anything after that would be a bonus, although ofc very welcome.

CCP have also taken the "hint" (Hundreds of guys all yelling the same thing whilst brandishing pitchforks, & torches, and burning you in effigy is a 'hint' in Iceland it seems) and they're working a lot better with the CSM as well.

So basically I took a break and when I came back I had got what I wanted, so I re-upped.

Bonus: After I gave up trying to PvP this summer, I just did anoms and plexes as much as I could, and just whored ISK for 2-3 months. Now I have a rack of T3 ships and I can play for free for a couple years.

I think you guys started a threadnaught and they listened. Incursion seems to be the content-lite expansion with a focus on fixing performance/bugs/polish that everyone was asking for.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

CNR for bang for the buck in all honesty. Can't see the point in using a T3 ship or a Golem for T4's, when they can be done quick enough in a cheaper alternative. Some will say Drakes with full T2 gear and enough skill points but whilst they can do it, it's a tad slow put it that way.

I don't even bother with CNR. A Raven with t2 mods is more than capable of running L4s and is pretty damn cheap. I don't know why people like expensive toys when they can be broken and ISK is better spent elsewhere.

Eventually I plan to get a T3 myself, but thats only because I plan to solo C4 sites. Also, my corp is getting very close to manufacturing them. Even then, I will only use the Tengu for C4 sites since I can use something cheaper for everything else. If you are going to fly a ridiculously expensive ship IMO you should be using it for an activity that will return its investment. My C3 Drake setup is paid for after an hour of doing C3 sleeper sites. My L4 Raven is paid for after a night of mission running. Haven't lost a Raven doing 4s yet, but I have gotten ganked before doing C3 sites and losing a Drake didn't make me cry cause I knew I had come out at least half a bil in the black from its initial investment.