Originally posted by cag1980

Oh yes i understand that concept.  What i was trying to say is that the person is already enjoying the game, so they have already spent their money and decided they like it so warning them is a bit of a moot point.

As to a small dev team, i also play Vanguard and a small dedicated dev team from SOE have done wonders for that game and it is now in a much better state than when it launched and they are looking at a small relaunch soon with a trial island.   The size of the team means slower development but if you like something you stick with it.  Newer games like Conan (i had hopes for that one due to the lore) Just failed and even though they have a bigger dev team, they are still not fixing what needs to be fixed, instead they are looking forward to an expansion :S 

As to subs Vanguard for me is £10pm and Tara is £8pm.  Again if you like something you stick with it.  As to dropping the subs, i don't think that will happen as they still need to pay people to build the game.

Just a question for you did you buy AoC?

No I avoided AOC because after DDO and TR I have vowed to never again play a game at release. I am tired of paid for beta and too many game companies the last few years are putting MMOs out in a betalike state. Look at the work TR has done since release, its been pretty good but it has been 90% beta and maybe 10% new stuff with almost no real content for high level. TO me thats the work you do before you start charging.

DDO did the same thing, but they at least added content for high levels with every update. The problem with games like TR and DDO has been content coming out too slowly for games that have no sandbox to keep you busy between content updates. Both games live around 35k subs and keep the casual gamer kind of busy, both have failed to keep the average or more hardcore gamers attention.

Conans failure or success can not be decided yet. So far it sounds like a disaster but if we went by early word TR should have shut down months ago. The conan world has a lot of fans and if they get their act together I would think they can still salvage the game and make money. TR may never turn a profit. Last quarter their royalty losses were much bigger than the % they went up for income on subscriptions.

I am not warning people already playing and enjoying the game, I am posting towards people wondering if this game is worth the money. It is worth the $19.99 you will find it in most stores, but after a couple of months to me it is no longer worth the $15 a month they charge for an MMO. TR simply does not offer enough to be an MMO at this point.

Originally posted by King-Kong

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by King-Kong

woah

didnt they spend a whole ton of money on this space game?

Rumors were as high as 100 million spent on the game before launch but were never proven as fact.

But in the last report for NCSoft income the royalty figure for TR was -500 million Kron.

 

whats a kron?  korean dollar?

Yes NCSoft releases its quarterly report in Korean currency.

Originally posted by cag1980

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Sevenwind

If someone thinks a game sucks because it is in the bargin bin then sadly I think you're missing a lot of cool games. It may not have sold millions but that doesn't mean it sucks from a gamers point of view.

DDO is in the bargin bin as well and Turbine admitted it is making them a profit. That is another awesome game, great community.

I played WoW when it started for 2 months, it wasn't my game and that is the big subscriber hit, the game lacked any type of fun for me. TR on the other hand for me is a lot of fun. The community is awesome, the gameplay is fun, and the updates are good.

To each their own, but bargin bin games can hold lots of fun.

 

DDO did not hit the bargain bin 6 months after release. Turbine can say it makes a profit all they like. When you fall as far behind as DDO did and will be 2 years late with hitting level 20 it shows your dev team might be 10 people or so tops.

  Who cares what size the dev team is?, so you won't be getting huge updates and things won't be fixed as quick, But that dev team are dedicated to the game.

No one says TR sucks because it is in the bargain bin, you should just becareful thinking the game has depth or content when 6 months after release it hits the bargain area.

Just because you don't like the game you shouldn't tell people to be  careful about what they think of the game,  to me the game does have depth,  solo and group content good graphics and audio and as i said good for the casual gamer.  But this is my opinion so i had better be careful  :P

These things are all your opinion. I think the community is tiny and has a poor attitude for the most part. I also think it has nothing to do besides a gun version of a Hack -n- Slash. Sorry but that is not a monthly MMO to me. The updates are finishing what should have been done in beta.

 

No one is saying it is anything but their opinion.  The community is small yes but like most small communities it is good.  Yes it is  a shooter but it does have depth.  As to updates fixing what should have been done in beta,  have you ever played AoC??

DDO community suffers from the same disease as the TR community, they both think they are better than WOW players because they play a game with 35k subs. TR and DDO would kill for 20% of WOWs numbers.

Of course they would kill for the numbers because this would then mean their game would get better alot faster,  as to the comunity being better or worse than WoW (haven't played that one myself)  from what i see on forums all over the place it wouldn't be hard.

I never said either community was worse than WOW. I really doubt that is possible.

Telling people to becareful spending their money on a half finished product is a bad thing? You have your opinion I have mine, as a non casual gamer I am giving my opinion that the game is not money well spent. A game with no high level content  and very fast leveling has little depth, the war is a joke.

I care what size the dev team is, if I am asked to pay $15 a month I want to have regular updates and problems fixed. DDO is down to about 2 updates a year and that is why they no longer get my money.

If a game is going to have slow updates and fix things slowly then it should not charge as much as a game that does those things much faster. Do you understand that simple concept?

Originally posted by Sevenwind

Originally posted by King-Kong

sad but true

i have to agree

bargain bin usually means lack of sales or failure

 

May mean lack of sales figures, but doesn't mean the game sucks. that's always gonna be a matter of opinion and personal taste in games. You gotta play what you find fun. If your the type of person to follow the big subscibers then that's your thing. I play what I find fun, if I found it in the bargin bin so be it.

TR besides being in the bargain bin loses its fun factor for many after 3 months. Sorry but a game that wants $15 a month needs to provide more content and more to do. I was bored in under 2 months.

Originally posted by Sevenwind

If someone thinks a game sucks because it is in the bargin bin then sadly I think you're missing a lot of cool games. It may not have sold millions but that doesn't mean it sucks from a gamers point of view.

DDO is in the bargin bin as well and Turbine admitted it is making them a profit. That is another awesome game, great community.

I played WoW when it started for 2 months, it wasn't my game and that is the big subscriber hit, the game lacked any type of fun for me. TR on the other hand for me is a lot of fun. The community is awesome, the gameplay is fun, and the updates are good.

To each their own, but bargin bin games can hold lots of fun.

DDO did not hit the bargain bin 6 months after release. Turbine can say it makes a profit all they like. When you fall as far behind as DDO did and will be 2 years late with hitting level 20 it shows your dev team might be 10 people or so tops.

No one says TR sucks because it is in the bargain bin, you should just becareful thinking the game has depth or content when 6 months after release it hits the bargain area.

These things are all your opinion. I think the community is tiny and has a poor attitude for the most part. I also think it has nothing to do besides a gun version of a Hack -n- Slash. Sorry but that is not a monthly MMO to me. The updates are finishing what should have been done in beta.

DDO community suffers from the same disease as the TR community, they both think they are better than WOW players because they play a game with 35k subs. TR and DDO would kill for 20% of WOWs numbers.

Originally posted by cag1980

I recently returned to Tabula Rasa myself on free time offered by NCsoft.

Having beta tested the game and played it at launch and having left the game at the begining of this year, i think it has improved both graphically and gameplay wise, whilst still not perfect (what MMO is?) it is great for the casual gamer. 

Load up the game have a blast for a couple of hours and then log out and i think that is another part of it's appeal.

I don't understand what a retailer putting a game in it's bargin basement section has to do with how popular a game is,  the retailer has bought a number of units from the game company and it is retailer that has decided to cut the price, this is no reflection on the game.  If anything it may encourage more people to pick the game up.

Of course it is a reflection on the game. If the retailer has decided to sell the game so low that they are basicly clearing inventory and not making any money off it, you can bet your ass the game was not a big time seller. If the game was popular they would have trouble keeping it on the shelves as it would sell out repeatedly. TR has no such problem. Go take a look at your local game store, there is guildwars still selling for more than TR. Thats because it is 10X the game TR is today. Retailers do not bargain price GW because it still sells. Yes lower price should get some people to try it and then many of them will realize its a fun combat game that needs a lot of work to be a full scale MMO worth $15 a month.

The problem with it being great for the casual gamer is that it has lost almost all the hard core gamers and even the average player has more than one char at or near level cap. A game with approx. 35k subs is not doing great, it is survivng and most likely will for years to come, but I doubt it will ever be what RG said it would be at release and that was a game to rival WOW.

Originally posted by King-Kong

woah

didnt they spend a whole ton of money on this space game?

Rumors were as high as 100 million spent on the game before launch but were never proven as fact.

But in the last report for NCSoft income the royalty figure for TR was -500 million Kron.

Originally posted by Sandown

You haven't tried installing WOW then. that took for ever when i tried it. lost count of how many patches it had to download with there Torrent patch downloader.

I am going to guess you picked a bad time. About 6 months ago I tried WOW for the free 10 days and the download was very fast.

Originally posted by smilligan

Sweet, thanks for your input/insight.  Much to think about.  More or less, for deep-thinking strategy (skillsets, setting up stats, crafting, etc) and longevity in play, the choice is AO... but for casual and smooth combat and smooth graphics and perhaps a bit more laid-back interface, TR.  *flips a coin and ponders all the information*  Sure helped clear up my thoughts on the two, thanks bunches! 

Actually on another set of forums a few of us discussed how a combination of the two games might make for the best MMO ever. The skills and depth of AO mixed with combat and world of TR.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

You forget the option "there are even more people who do not like sandbox games and just want a good hack-n-slash".

Actually when it comes to MMOs Hack n Slash is rarely worth a monthly fee. Most people want more options for their money rather than simply killing things. Say what you want but one of the reasons WOW draws so many is that it brings in players not normally associated with MMOs.

Originally posted by Sevenwind

Originally posted by Rokurgepta
 

They should lower the monthly fee to 5.99. The price at Amazon tells you all you really need to know.

 

I've found a couple games to be good no matter of the price. When I subscribed to DDO I found a copy on Amazon for 14.00 at the time and I absolutely love the game.

A few months back massively.com ran a story about gogamer.com selling TR real cheap. I also took advantage of that. I enjoy the game very much. I think I ended up getting the collectors edition for 19.99, can't remember, and the standard was going for 9.99.

Point is most of these games have trials. If you download the trial and and enjoy the game then heck yeah shop around and see who is selling it cheap. If you find a copy of TR that cheap I call that smart shopping and at the end of the free month if you feel you've lost interest then you really haven't lost a lot of money.

Price of a game really tells me nothing. And this goes to any game, try their trial, if you enjoy it, shop around for a cheap price. If you find a game you enjoy don't let the price fool you that the game sucks, to each their own.

 

Sorry but to me a game that has not been out a year and is already for sale in many places for $19.99 and less must have big time flaws. TR fits that bill perfectly. I never said no one would enjoy the game. I said to me it is not worth $15 a month. For the amount of content it is a $5 a month game.

I do not know what you know about the business world, but trust me when I say nothing that is wildly popular would drop from $50 to $5.99 in less than a year unless the new version was out to replace it. I do not see TR2 anywhere.

It was in the managers special area at Best Buy in April. It was $19.99 and then 40% off for managers special. 6 months after release and stores were already trying to get rid of it. TR is a fun game, but it does not have the depth and content of long term MMOs. TR is best as your second game and not a primary.

Originally posted by dsulli1410

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by dsulli1410

Have to pay for the game, but considering you can get it for $5.99 at Amazon I'd say its not so bad.  You can also just pay $19.99 at NCsoft and they just go ahead and upgrade the account automatically, which is what I did becasue I was a slacker and didn't feel like waiting on Amazon to ship the box. 

 

They should lower the monthly fee to 5.99. The price at Amazon tells you all you really need to know.

*Blocking negative energy with good chi *

Cheers...What is a fun experience for one individual is not necessarily fun for another.

Have a fabulous weekend all!

True but I am still entitled to my opinion right? I feel I have the right to say the game is not worth $15 a month.

Originally posted by dsulli1410

Have to pay for the game, but considering you can get it for $5.99 at Amazon I'd say its not so bad.  You can also just pay $19.99 at NCsoft and they just go ahead and upgrade the account automatically, which is what I did becasue I was a slacker and didn't feel like waiting on Amazon to ship the box. 

They should lower the monthly fee to 5.99. The price at Amazon tells you all you really need to know.

Originally posted by indiramourn

Create a new account, activiate it, play for your free month, cancel.

Repeat the above 3 times to get 3 free months.  Of course, you are starting from scratch each month.

Not like it would matter since TR has no endgame to speak of and most players start over with alts ever month or so anyway.

Originally posted by smilligan

 I'm on the 3-day trial, and liking the game, on my second day... but due to masses of work and working a lot, haven't really had a decent chance to get far into this game and see if I truely like it.  So was hoping to get some assistance with a side-by-side comparisn at a mild level perhaps.

I've been hopping in and out of Anarchy Online for years... started playing it back when it was brand new and you had to pay for it, and took a hiatus from it just before the release of Shadowlands.  Since it became free without expansions, been doing the free thing.  Now, about a month ago, I hopped back into Anarchy Online, and noticed the per-month price is about the same as Tabula Rasa.

From what I've seen, Tabula Rasa flows real smooth, looks awesome, and is really fun to play.  I'll openly admit, the combat-system in AO is horrible, needs work, and is tacky... but for some reason the AO gameplay remains really fun, and think the multiple skill sets and professions are what really push character and personality in the game.  I'm also highly anticipating the new graphic engine, utilizing DX9 and perhaps DX10, for AO, coming later this year... (youtube: "anarchy online engine"; looks pretty sweet!)... so hrm.

Guess what I'm hoping to find, is an answer to this question... is there anybody reading this, that plays Tabula Rasa and loves it, that used to be or is still currently a hardcore AO player?  Granted AO is showing its age, but do you miss it any, or is Tabula Rasa a good replacement for it?  Does TR (outside of the better combat system and graphics of course) majorly outshine AO?  Does AO shine in ways that TR doesn't?

 Thank you for reading this lengthy post, and thank you in advance for any help/assistance offered! 

--Steve

As a former player of both I will give you my opinion.

AO was a much deeper game. It took me much longer to get high up in that game and the entire time I had fun. Yes the combat is dated but at the time there was no MMO with better combat they were all kind of the same.

TR has 8 classes and each has a few skills, but I do not feel the character development is all that great. For most classes no matter what skills you use or how you set your attributes your chars will not feel all that different from another character of the same class with a different build. The body stat is far and away the best for almost all classes as it adds armor and health that simply outweigh the benefits of the other attributes.

TR combat shines beyond every MMO I have played except DDO because they are both more involved and fast paced, but TR has such a small community that at times it felt like I was trying to save humanity all by myself.

Right now I still do not think TR is worth $15 a month. It simply does not offer enough depth to even the moderately hardcore gamer. It is good for the casual player who likes having multiple alts.

Originally posted by Effect

What's the population like now?

How many servers are their currently?

Thanks.

Still 4 servers. 

Population is as always guesswork but if you take their 1.8 million income for the last Quarter and break that down to $15 per player per month you come out around 40k ballpark figure.

You have some people with free months but I doubt they make the number much higher than that.

I have been looking over the polls and I have to hope that some of the voters are kidding.

Heath Ledger made the list of top 10 all time actors. Heath Ledger does not belong on the list of top 500 all time actors. Same goes for the movie list as well. Some of the crap on these lists makes me wonder who voted.  Lets hope that no one from another time or planet ever sees the crap thats going into space.

Originally posted by green13

Originally posted by Jpizzle

How utterly important. Nothing holds the merit of a game like a typo. This is such an awesome, well thought out thread. If they can't spell every word correctly, the game must be moving backwards. Amirite? Eyemriterite?

 

You're absolutely right... the game has to be moving backwards. A typo in an advertisement is beyond inexcusable. These things get checked and re-checked and normally have to be proofed and signed-off on by whoever is in charge.

Because when it comes to mass-communication of any kind, close enough is definitely not good enough, especially when you're trying to sell something.

They haven't just dropped the ball - they've kicked it out onto the road into oncoming traffic.

 

Welcome to TR, the stonehands of MMO development. Dropping the ball is actually one of the courses they hold. Along with how to add things no one asked for and how to delay important content until your subscriber base has less people than a Florida Marlins baseball game. I can reach more people yelling out a window at my house than TR does daily.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by xxlilDevilxx

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by xxlilDevilxx

Ask yourself this:

"If a game that only offer 3 days trial (7days now), do you think...."

a) They know people will get bored within a month.

b) The game sucked so bad that end game content just pain o suck?

c) The people wont sup because of boredom even for 14 days trial?

d) All of the above

 

seriously tho, this game is fun in the first couple days. Then is just a grindfest, that prob the reason why the trial is so short......

 

trial is not short. most trials are between 7-14 days...its just avrage.

 

Before is only 3 days. Most trial is 14 days from NCsoft.

 

thats was before. it was three days only because they where haveing issues with gold farmers at the time.

 

That was a lame excuse at best. Tr barely ever had gold farmers. Sure there was usually one here and there months ago, but when i came back in July I did not see one. Gold farmers do not spend time in games that are not profitable for them. TR besides having a small population has very little use for credits/gold in game. The farmers never made much because TR is a game without a lot of reasons to buy money. No epic gear, no using credits to gain any real advantage in the game and no high level content so no one was paying to get leveled. The farmers were the least of TRs problems.

As for lildevil, end game content does not suck. The little TR does have was pretty good, but you need more than a couple of instances to keep people busy. PVP to me does not count in a game where you can not choose other factions so basicly the PVP is wargames and has no real meaning in the game. They added PvP when they realized they had no end game to keep people busy.  TR has about 2-3 months content for the average player. If you like rolling alts you have a couple more months of fun. If you like having a main and maybe an alt or 2 tops then TR is a 2 month adventure.

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by Pelu

OMG... is going to be 7 or 8 months since release... and they still with out the high level content????

 

Pre CU SWG didn't need any "high level content"

WWIIONLINE don't need any "high level content"

Planetside don't need no "high level content"

 

TR needs high level content and the sooner the better. Unlike Planetside, which was designed around PvP that you could be good at no matter your level, TR has poorly implemented PvP and is based on a story that at level 50 comes to an end and no MMO should ignore high level content.

 

Other games did it in the past, well the MMO industry needs to improve going forward. People simply are not going to pay for half assed attempts anymore.

 

To the tune of this song:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTpZpwjtIE

 

We don't need no "high level content"

We don't need no "quests"

No grinding in the game.

Grinders and griefers leave them sandboxes alone.

HEY GRINDERS AND GRIEFERS leave them sandboxes alone!

All and all your just another brick in the wall.

If only TR had sandbox elements. Unfortunately it has none. Might be TRs biggest flaw. Quest based game that needs massive influx of sandbox gameplay.