Originally posted by er99

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by er99

i'm trying to raise my charisma +2 to e able to cast sorcerer spells but cant figure out how or if its even possible? i have a lvl 2 cleric and tried to cross train as a sorcerer but found out its not possible without raising my charisma. did i screw up?

 You should always plan cross class BEFORE you create the character to avoid these issues. Also you should think long and hard about WHY you would want to add sorc. Sorc was a good choice years ago, not so much now. What is your plan with this character?

 

If you are doing it to cast sorc spells, stop now. In order to have good sorc spells you need lots of sorc levels. In that case your low charisma is going to ruin the character. If you are taking it for low level spells, you are going to hate the character later and it will likely fade in usefulness quite quickly in a couple of levels when those spells are too weak to waste SP on.

 

As a cleric you are going to have very good offensive spells one day soon. Every multiclass level you take just slows down your getting to them. Get your cleric to level 6 and get the first level of Radian Servant, grab a friend or two to watch and then go solo Deleras Tomb using nothing but Radiant servant bursts to annihilate undead.

 

 

Thanks everyone for all the advice and help. Since i'm only at lvl 3 with her i'm thinking it might be a good idea to delete this character and re-roll her as pure cleric. I have a lvl 2 sorcerer already as my second character.

To be honest Roku I really had no definate plan with this particular character when i started. I just started playing DnD last weekend for the first time. i had already rolled a sorcerer to lvl 2. this time i knew i wanted a self healing melee fighter. i thought a couple sorcerer spells thrown in would be nice since she was already pretty good at melee and healing, even at lvl 2. since i alreadsy played my lvl 2 sorc i knew she had a couple really nice long range nukes even at lvl 2. not knowing what i was doing i thought i could incorporate them by crosstraining into sorc. i didn't realize my mistake until i went running off into the wilderness and got a lovely 'FAIL' message when i tried to cast a spell.

 I would always have a plan when multiclassing. Main reasons being stat and feat choices will be very important to a multiclass to fit in all the ones you want. Since you are new you may need time to get familiar with all the choices in feats that can have a big effect on what your multiclass can be good in.

As a cleric I usually take a fighter level early and then plan around using a heart of wood to remove thwe fighter level when I reacxh a level that melee is no longer important to me(usually level 13 since I will have the cleric PRE in full effect) but that requires you to buy a heart of wood of course. For your first characters I agree with the guy who said stay pure. You will get a great feel for the character class and what it can do before you mix in too many multiclass skills that will change your abilities. But both pure and multiclass can be strong and great fun to play.

Originally posted by er99

i'm trying to raise my charisma +2 to e able to cast sorcerer spells but cant figure out how or if its even possible? i have a lvl 2 cleric and tried to cross train as a sorcerer but found out its not possible without raising my charisma. did i screw up?

 You should always plan cross class BEFORE you create the character to avoid these issues. Also you should think long and hard about WHY you would want to add sorc. Sorc was a good choice years ago, not so much now. What is your plan with this character?

If you are doing it to cast sorc spells, stop now. In order to have good sorc spells you need lots of sorc levels. In that case your low charisma is going to ruin the character. If you are taking it for low level spells, you are going to hate the character later and it will likely fade in usefulness quite quickly in a couple of levels when those spells are too weak to waste SP on.

As a cleric you are going to have very good offensive spells one day soon. Every multiclass level you take just slows down your getting to them. Get your cleric to level 6 and get the first level of Radian Servant, grab a friend or two to watch and then go solo Deleras Tomb using nothing but Radiant servant bursts to annihilate undead.

Originally posted by alkarionlog

cleric and sorcs are not really a good cross class choice, clerics need wis to cast spells, sorc char. you can raise with tomes with would solve your casting problems, also any equipment who raise char would also help, some capes have it, also each 4 lvls you get a new atribute points to spend it, most of time I wouldn't raise any stats over 14 in creation unless you need it for a skill or feat, but that is because I roll a pally so I would need several points in several areas

 Actually Sorc was a very popular cross class for clerics at one time because they both should have decent charisma. Clerics power their PRE with charisma. It is quite possible to have a good charisma score and by that alone keep a party healed using Radiant Servant skills in some situations.

But that said cross class in sorc is no longer popular since the only reasons it was done was for more SP at a time when spell points were hard to come by, no potions and clerics had a small spell point pool and for use of wands. Back then wands were kind of useful to get through content. You no longer need those wands really and wands are kind of weak for the most part. The problem with cross class in sorc is you are never going to be a good sorc with a cleric main unless you take so many levels that you are no longer really a cleric.

Why not raise any stat over 14 at creation? Your main stat or two should almost always start higher than that. if you only go to 14 you must be adding stat points to stats that are marginally useful at best while kind of ignoring ones that you should be maxing or at least going to 16 in.

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Should be fun to see how many Drizzt and Catti-Brie clones this spawns.

DDO had all the Drizzt clones in the world the day drow came into the game. I would not expect many more.

Originally posted by bestman22

find a tank line you are good with such as the new french lights (love my 13-90) I have been playing since may and never seen a hack and have up to IS3 now (hate heavy tanks but want free slot from is4) that said when I die its because

A) I got in over my head and over extended

B) I was focused on my target and not my surroundings and failed to fall back when I should have

C) someone got a lucky shot at ammo rack and I insta died

D) I just sucked or was impatient with moving.

 

I will readily admit Matchmaker isnt perfect and some matches are like WTF but I have never been completely useless.

 

If any fix was made to MM I would say drop it from 4 tier spread to 3 tiers max... that would help a lot.

 I kind of laugh when people in game die 30 seconds into a match and then scream about the team sucking. I too notice that almost all of my deaths are from one of the four reasons you listed. Sure there are times when the team as a whole fails and you all die but it seems to me that way too many people blame the team when they die.

I too would like the tier spread to lessen a bit.

Originally posted by JamesLewis

I'm a nooob to mate. Well played Wow for about 7 months but looking for other eople wanting to play an MMO. DDO is very P2W by the way and progression is slow

 I never found DDO P2W. Sure the best is available to people who pay, but its not like DDO has any imbalance caused by the cash shop. Without PvP P2W really is not an issue. If you want access to everything you P2P not P2W.

As for progression being slow, DDo is only slow if you go slow. It can be quite fast and easy to level up in DDO.

Originally posted by todrules

"When it's done." That's exactly what Id said about Duke Nukem Forever. They wanted to have that perfect game and wouldn't release it until then. And, well, we see how that turned out.

 

 But were they constantly showing videos of things from Duke Nukem? Its pretty clear to any rational adult that GW2 is moving forward all the time.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

The "Vaporware Death Cult" should move on to this game. Seriously, is this game ever going to see release? Smoke and mirrors all around.

 

 Smoke and mirrors? What a silly comment. People without a clue always want want want. Then when you get a rushed game you whine whine whine. Amazing how people can be so predictable.

Originally posted by Nebless

Yea that's the one.  There's a girl standing outside that gives the quest and is the first one that has you meeting the main badguy (he's running the gate).

Used to be more spiders and when you broke the crypts you got skeletons.  It's so easy mode now it's ridicules.

 Other than giving you completion upon entry I did not think they could make the starter island any easier these days.

Originally posted by Insgod

So I had a spell in my number 1 slot and some how it disappeared. I accidently dragged out of the quick slot and released the mouse button and poof, it vanished.  I looked in my spells but did not see it in there. Any idea how I can get it back?

 

Thanks

 Check your spells again it is there. If you had the spell in a hot bar once then the spell has to be in your spell book still.

Originally posted by allegria

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by allegria

Originally posted by panache
Hi I've been checking out ddo and it looks quite good....but have a few questions before I try it. I'm a Brit, do I need to dl a European version? I played Aion Age of Conan on default settings.......should I download the hi res version? I've checked out quite a few YouTube vids......does you character ever sheath their weapon or are they always running around with it equipped? Will it cater for a casual gamer? Thanks in advance for any replies :)

One of the cool features of DDO is the ability to do any dungeon ( quest ) at multiple difficulty levels. They are solo/normal/hard/elite/raid ( not sure on top 2, i forget  )

But i will tell you that i always solo on normal never casual. I duo with someone on Normal/Hard as well. That would tell me that the casual mode is super casual so there is certainly room for that.

Elite is not available on all quests yet and Raid is only an option on raids.

Yes. thank you for the correction. Elite seems pretty common, raids certainly are not. Sorry if I mislead anyone there.

 I meant to say EPIC is not available on all quests. Elite is. Sorry for that mistake.

Originally posted by allegria

Originally posted by panache
Hi I've been checking out ddo and it looks quite good....but have a few questions before I try it. I'm a Brit, do I need to dl a European version? I played Aion Age of Conan on default settings.......should I download the hi res version? I've checked out quite a few YouTube vids......does you character ever sheath their weapon or are they always running around with it equipped? Will it cater for a casual gamer? Thanks in advance for any replies :)

One of the cool features of DDO is the ability to do any dungeon ( quest ) at multiple difficulty levels. They are solo/normal/hard/elite/raid ( not sure on top 2, i forget  )

But i will tell you that i always solo on normal never casual. I duo with someone on Normal/Hard as well. That would tell me that the casual mode is super casual so there is certainly room for that.

Elite is not available on all quests yet and Raid is only an option on raids.

Originally posted by panache
Hi I've been checking out ddo and it looks quite good....but have a few questions before I try it. I'm a Brit, do I need to dl a European version? I played Aion Age of Conan on default settings.......should I download the hi res version? I've checked out quite a few YouTube vids......does you character ever sheath their weapon or are they always running around with it equipped? Will it cater for a casual gamer? Thanks in advance for any replies :)

 DDO no longer has European servers. I would go hi res on DDO if you can run it. You can sheath your weapon with an in game command. DDO is built for casual gamers these days and plays quite well that way.

Originally posted by blackcat35

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by blackcat35

 

 

 You are wrong about warforged as the worst choice. You are assuming that the cleric will waste mana healing himself when that is not always the case. Look up healers friend. Warforged can be tough to heal early but by mid levels that is simply no longer the case.

 

 

Okay, so now you got a cleric who cannot self-heal.  I stick with the fact that war-forged are the worst class for a cleric.  The best classes for a war-forged are sorc or wizard, since they have repair spells that can make them self-healing.  Clerics like Paladins also need good charisma to turn effectively.  War-forged have minuses to charisma, on top of the healing problem.

 

If you still don't think War-forged are the worst class for clerics, what is the worst class, and why?

Turn is useless. If you build a cleric to turn undead you are wasting your turn undeads when they have much better uses.

I would say elves and halflings are worse. Elves because the negative to con which is one of a clerics most needed stats and Halfling because they get a size penalty to carrying capacity which can cause many problems.

Warforged might seem like the worst to newish players or the inexperienced with the game, but the fact is that Warforged are fine after the first few levels.

Originally posted by blackcat35

A guild mate was telling me he was in a group with an elf with a 6 con, obviously a pick-up group (PUG).  This elf had 39 HP.  He was obviously a gimp player and I don't think 2 clerics bursting radiant servant constantly could keep that guy vertical.  50 hit point blast and that guy is toast.

Some missions just aren't hard.  My 9th level sorcerer elf with 97 hit points with a con of 10 just ran thru catacombs on elite and had no problems.  He has a buff he uses alot, false life, to keep his hit points buffered so mobs hitting him a little don't actually hurt him much.  He's also several levels above the mission he is doing, and fire wall is very powerful at this level.  He didn't even bother to use a pocket healer.

Some missions you can use a bard and they work well.  Even on elite.  Especially when your 4 levels higher than the elite mission, even after the +2 modifier.

All of my characters ran thru kundarak favor for more bank space, and one of the missions we ran constantly was Taming the Flames on Elite.  This is a pain in the butt mission.  We had 2 clerics in one of the many missions I ran.   At end of mission when we completed it, cleric was telling me how important it was to have 2 clerics in that mission.  Most of my groups where 7 or 8th level, this group had 10th levels in it with two clerics.  The mission on elite is super hard, people still died even with two clerics.  One of the clerics could rezz.  The other one was 9th, but had 8 levels in cleric and one in fighter.

Some missions put out serious damage.  Even with good resists.

 

 I never run quests on elite when I am 4 levels over the quest.  Or if I do I do not use them to gauge the effectiveness of a bard as a healer or cleric. In order to gauge players and characters I prefer to use them on elite at the proper level when possible.

 

I have found that I rarely need a second cleric for any quest short of a raid and even those can be short manned and ran with one healer in almost all cases.

 

I would never build any character with a 10 con or a 6 con. I can not imagine wanting to be that gimp and a drain on the group.

 

 

Originally posted by Sentime

Man this is why I hate voice communication in games by people who can't be bothered to type.

Always someone with no speaking ability, an annoying voice, and crackling mic around that wants to do nothing but talk nonstop.

Immediate game-experience killer.

 I prefer voice communication. Gets the job done quicker. Typing requires you to stop playing to communicate.

Originally posted by blackcat35

Warforged is the worst choice and it should be obvious.  Arcane repair spells heal them best.  If your warforged cleric, you'll always waste alot of mana self-healing.  The immunities of a war-forged don't make up for the healing aspect.  

Buffing the party is not a waste of mana, if done conservatively.  Bless lasts quite awhile and gives everyone 5% more chance to hit.  That might not seem like alot, but if your hitting 75% of the time time, now your hitting 80% of the time, you just went from missing 1 in 4 to missing 1 in 5.  It also combines with Prayer, although prayer's duration isn't as long as bless.  Resist energy spells are for when people die and lose ship buffs or your too lazy to get ship buffs.

Not every cleric is high enough lvl to even have radiant servant.  The more intense fighting in DDO on ELITE usually requires healing.  Its easy to stop watching health for a bit and then people start dying because you weren't ready to heal them.  At the higher levels probably one of the best spells is HEAL.  Its a 6th level spell but for healing purposes is one of the most useful, healing quite alot.

Once you get Radiant Servant 2, its best to empower (and maximize) your abilities .  Empower is forced on you to even be a radiant servant, and it costs you nothing to put these feats on the power.  It makes the power that much more effective.  The new release 11 allows you now to add spell modifying feats onto each individual spell/power.  So by adding empower, my positive energy pulses is healing from 7's to 20's, major ujpgrade.  I still need to get the maximize feat, looking forward to it being even better.

 

 

 You are wrong about warforged as the worst choice. You are assuming that the cleric will waste mana healing himself when that is not always the case. Look up healers friend. Warforged can be tough to heal early but by mid levels that is simply no longer the case.

 

Bless is an effective low level buff that quickly becomes less useful. Many of the buffs are good but lose effectiveness as you level. Things that add AC are good low level buffs when most people have an AC that can be used, but at higher levels thise buffs are useless to almost all players.

 

Radiant servant is available at level 6. At level 6 a cleric can be amazing with just that ability. You can go to Deleras Tomb with that and easily 2 man the whole chain even on hard.

Originally posted by blackcat35

Its not always a good idea to have the party on top of you in the higher levels.  Relying only on the healing abilities of Radiant servant makes you more suseptable to flame strike, fireball, and other AOE's that will hit everyone because they are all near the cleric getting that healing.  Its usually best to spread out so only a few people are getting hit.

Almost all groups want a healer in them to be more effective and resilent.  A more fragile group that shouldn't be doing anything too difficult is one without a healer.

I remember running my FV in a mission healing people and had a TR who didn't need much healing.  He went off on his own and ended up dying to some boss, probably got immobolized.  I mentioned before he went off on his own that he was the one person I wasn't worried about.   Appearantly the TR wasn't invincible.  He Rage-quit the party and we finished the quest without him.

If your not running missions on ELITE and getting max experience/favor out of it, then yea, you might be able to squeak by without a healer.  Most normal missions don't require you to have a trapper either.

 

 Having run all of DDO over the years and playing both FVS and Clerics to level 20 I can tell you that you are wasting spell points with many of your buffs.

I did not say every healer can rely solely on the Radiant Servant abilities. I was clearly speaking about well played groups and not the random PUGs many play with.

DDO is no longer a very hard game and a well played group can get by with a Bard as a main healer in amny places even on ELITE.

Originally posted by blackcat35

Keeping the party alive is your first job as a cleric.  Whether you do it with crowd control, buffing up the party, healing, or a combination of the 3..  DPS is secondary.  command, greater command, sound blast, and a few other spells help to keep mobs down off their feet or stunned so they cannot do damage you have to heal.   Bless, Prayer, Aid Mass, Shield of faith mass, bears end mass, protection from all energy mass, and several other spells will keep the party more resilent in the fight.    

Usually you will have to do some healing as a cleric.  clerics are forced to take healing spells.  They don't have a choice.  FV's don't get healing spells they have to take . They can choose what they want and don't want.   FV's also don't get as many spells as a cleric.   

Of the 3 roles of crowd control, buffing the party, and healing, the most important is healing.  You can not bother to buff or crowd control, but if you don't heal the party then the party is that much more fragile.  With regard to damage mitigation, Resist Energy > protection from energy.  Resist energy never goes away until its duration is up, protection from energy goes away once it stops the appropriate amount of damage or the duration expires.  Resist energy is a more reliable form of defense.  The problem with resist energy is that you don't get an resist all energy spell, so have to choose each of the 5 different types individually.  Casting this spell on everyone for all 5 elements would be time consuming and mana intensive.

CLERICS ARE HEALERS FIRST AND FOREMOST.  Probably the worst *RACE for a cleric is war-forged.

 

*Edited to be written as intended.

 

 Clerics should not worry about resist too much because many other classes have it as a spell and can pass it out as needed. Not to mention there is equipment every character should have by mid levels that makes resists being casted less often needed.

 

Bless, mass aid and all those other spells are more spell points wasted in almost all situations. They add little and waste spell points.

 

Healing is only most important when playing with people who do not take care of themselves very well. As a cleric I have played with groups that played so well I healed them with nothing but radiant servant abilities. Since you regen your uses over time this can leave almost all spell points for other uses.

 

Why is war forged the worst choice?

Originally posted by blackcat35

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by WhiteCross

thanks for the reply.

I'm not too sure about the mechanics yet, but do I create a level 1 Cleric and build out from there, or a level 1 Fighter and build out from there to Cleric?

sorry, im a noob

 I usually take cleric just so I can heal from the beginning and then take fighter after. Having radiant servant makes a huge difference and is a great way to add to your heals. I am not a huge fan or player of the melee clerics myself so I tend not to dump charisma as I like as many turns as I can get for powering radian servant and other turn based skills(except turn itself as its pretty useless) there are some skills that use turns that as a melee cleric you will find very useful in added healing powers.

Also in your skills there is one called heal. It has no use as a cleric. Do not waste skill points in it.

Heal is not a complete waste.  It gives you regen (health recovery) at rest shrines.  How often are people hurt at shrines.  Having some skill points in healaing makes you use less spell points healing when your present and others are resting, or your resting yourself. Also once you have Radiant Servant II, you can still use the healing skill points and save a turn use.  I wouldn't spend an inordinate amount of skill points into healing, but you should have some skill at it.  Same with swim, Jump, spot, and search.  Minimum is one point in each of these skills, so if you want you can use an item buff and it won't go to naught.  I believe you cannot use item buffs if you don't have at least 1 point in the skill.  Repair skill is used for Warforged.

 Another point of having healing skill  is if you are completely out of spells and radiant bursts/positive energy/no turns and need to bring someone back from dying because they are about to, with a healing kit you can try to bind their wounds.  I believe the DC is 20, so you add your skill plus a D20 to try to beat 20, more skill makes it easier to stop them from bleeding to death.  Usually you'll have the mana to heal them, but won't you feel foolish if you come into this situation and don't have the healing skill trained up at least some and they bleed to death.

All clerics are forced to have healing.  If you want to play a Tank/self healer you could be a warforged/wiz or sorc, or a Favored Soul/non-warforged.  Favored Souls usually don't have as much healing as a cleric, they aren't forced to take healing spells.

As a cleric, People you group with are going to expect you to cast heal spells on them if they get hurt in battle.  Telling them your not really a healer is a good way to probably get kicked from a few groups.  There is a shortage of clerics, and playing a self-healing-only cleric is going to not win you alot of friends.   I remember grouping with a FV who told me he wasn't a healer, yet he kept healing me.  As far as I was concerned, he was a healer and doing his job.  As a cleric one of the downfalls is you have to watch other people's health alot, if you don't, people can die on you quickly in combat.  As a cleric, your first job is healing, secondary job is DPS.

I never said a clerics job is not to heal, but anyone who says to waste skill points in the heal skill is not planning a cleric properly.  The small amount it matters at shrines is in no way making up for what you could actually put those skill points into.

Favored souls are not forced to take healing spells but other than Radiant Servant can have just as much healing as a cleric.

As a cleric healing is not your first job. Helping to mitigate incoming damage can be a much better use of spell points, but that is the more advanced gameplay version.