All Posts by Random_mage

Originally posted by WeaponX

There is going to be a F2P period so everyone can try it out, unlike the other games you listed.

Source?? I don't believe this has yet to be confirmed. 

Open beta is happening because "The Tasos" says so.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by Random_mage

Well.. Not really. If some guy removed your stuff.. that would be theft.  Plain and simple.    The US would have to recognize the verdict in the other countries court (some countries aren't recognized).. In this instance, an NDA would .. well.. put it this way..They would have to show that what you did some how caused a loss of money for Aventurine (beyond their legal fees).  I work for a company, and we have signed NDA's and violated them (unknowningly) and our punishment, in some cases, dismissal from a program that was provided by those vendors.  In the instance of an video game NDA, they can no allow you to use their product

 It wouldn't be illegal as they would be bailiffs bearing a court order to take your possesions.

You can get fined for compensatatory and also punative damages for nda breaches.

Well.. No.  Since you an american, you are protected by american law.  It's not like getting your car repo'd.. in which case you don't ever own your car anways.  If anyone takes your property in the US without a trial in the US, it's theft.  It's the same thing that keeps corrupt governements from ruling against rich people and just showing up to take their stuff.

You cannot be fined in civil case.   You have to be sued.  A fine comes from the government, and is usually paid as a penalty for violating law.  An NDA isn't a law..  they have to provide evidence that what you did HURT THEM financially in either new revenue or existing revenue as far as a suit goes.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by Kurt00 

They wouldn't be able to drag me to court because I simply wouldn't show up. They would be sitting there like morons themselves.

 

 

It would just mean that you could never travel to Europe or it's dependant territories without being arrested for non payment of fines, which obviously isn't a problem if your some kind of hillbilly but for a lot of people it would be.  Possilble it could also mean that one day some guys would come along with court order in your own county and start removing your car / furniture / computer ect or take your house off you perfectly legally, and you would probably owe a lot if it got that far due to Aventuines legal bills.  I would assume that they are only selecting people over 18 for the beta.

Well.. Not really. If some guy removed your stuff.. that would be theft.  Plain and simple.    The US would have to recognize the verdict in the other countries court (some countries aren't recognized).. In this instance, an NDA would .. well.. put it this way..They would have to show that what you did some how caused a loss of money for Aventurine (beyond their legal fees).  I work for a company, and we have signed NDA's and violated them (unknowningly) and our punishment, in some cases, dismissal from a program that was provided by those vendors.  In the instance of an video game NDA, they can no allow you to use their product

Well..

yes and no..

War wasn't just a preview weekend.

WAR had two preview weekends. they had beta forums that were open (towards the endish of closed beta).. and this was a month+ in advnace of release.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Good analysis.

 

Anyone here being honest should know that as well.  Basically NDAs are there to try and keep the honest people honest.  Other than that... it's just fluff.

 

Companies do their best to make them sound all scary and legit.  In the end it's just a bluffing game.  It just depends on who wants to call it. 

except in this case they did enforce it
 

Please cite sources and links to the prosecution. Having you claim anything as true is comical. Your reputation has been compromised through endless false posts.

I want court documents showing that the case has been filed and tried. Until then nothing at all has been enforced.

What are you talking about?? Downtoearth is the MAN.  He has a friend of a friend who's cousins uncles, brother (through marriage) in law, aunts sons friend is in beta.  He knows ALL.. DUH

So.. this is just my opinion.  Therefore, it's right.  Moving on..

Darkfall OPEN Beta was SUPPOSED to end in Early Dec. with a Release SHORTLY afterward.  This is fact, and not debatable.

Now, if you were to assume that Darkfall is only 22 days late (that is, with Darkfall releasing on the 31st of Decemeber), then you might say that OPEN beta would also 22 days late.  Well, that just doesn't seem to jive as open beta would of had to of ended January 6th (22 days after the mythical 15th of december when open beta was supposed to end originally.  The 15th was just a made up date because the "begining of december is BEFORE the 15ht of december)

Now.. I'm left wondering.. Will Darkfall even have an OPEN beta?

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Finally.. someone with some legal .. knowledge posts..   Thank you for shutting up all these people who THINK they know what they are talking about..

Oh..  And NO, you can't be fined by a country for breaking and NDA.. You can only be fined if you break a LAW (that is a PUBLIC law, not a PRIVATE contract).  If you break private contract, and lose a the suit, you can NOT be put in jail for failing to pay.  However, ANY money y ou receive can be seized as a result of failure to pay, UNTIL your fine is paid.

Originally posted by hidden1

I will be playing a "stalkertype" hiding behind rocks, trees, bushes, and I will be an ambush predator...

Just like 98% of the rest of the server..

That is.. the 2% who aren't ganking!!

And.. you know what would make Darkfall PvP F'n great????????

IF THEY RELEASED THE GAME!

I voted "don't know" because.. well.. for all intensive purposes, I'm hopefully optimistic.  I very much want Darkfall to come out. I just want to sit down and play the game.  And.. get this.. If it sucks.. I won't play past the first month..   I'm just tired of reading all the "hype" and watching Tasos with his superiority complex spout how how great Darkfall is.

Originally posted by Ashrik

How could you think there will be no middle ground? It will neither be the biggest flop in MMO history, nor will it be an unprecedented success.

Even if it is great, a game with no marketing nor casual interest physically does not possess the ability to be a "smash hit" in any terms relevant to the MMO releases of the past decade.

Your options lack realism

Well.. not really.  Aventurine has build Darkfall up to be  A HUGE AWESOME GREAST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD GAME.  If it is ANYTHING other than what it has promised to be.. or stated it would be.. it's a failure is everyone eyes.

Originally posted by gom276

to you people who seem to think WoW is dying, and/or dead.  Thus anything new should cater to them since they arn't playing WoW anymore.

you make me sick.  There is nothing worse in this world than egoists who think the world owes them something since they started everything themselves.  And how they complain incessantly about how the kids these days and their new fangled contraptions just don't "toot" their respective horns.  And thus'ly the world should cater to them.  They just don't get it. 

When McDonalds came out with its substandard quality and fried disgusting mess the old timers first claimed it could never replace the sit down family restaurant.  Then it started to become a success started to pop up everywhere.  Suddenly there was fast food everywhere they went.  They claimed the quality was bad there was no nutritional value.  They complained their ears off. 

But the world didn't listen the new generation found value in the fast easy food given their busy lives.  So the new fast food industry blossomed and continues to do so today. 

You can still find new family restaurants opening up with the lone old timer sitting in it to have his morning coffee and breakfast.  And these same restaurants close their doors soon after opening for lack of customers.

If you have a hard time seeing the message in this story then you need to grow a pair and accept reality for what it is.  Hardcore, sandbox, full loot, PvP games are simply not what the main stream player is looking for and they outnumber your assess 1000 to 1.  Not saying you wont get a few title catering to you but the analogy here is not far off of reality.

The reality is restaurants do offer better food and nice atmosphere but the majority of people just don't have the time to sit down and wait for their food and eat it.  Let alone in a  sandbox world they even have to make it themselves.  Is it better and more fun for those who have time yes.  For the majority of player base who does not it is not only not fun, but annoying.

If I want to be a commercial success and tap an already flooded market the only way to get that market share is do what the others are doing.  Only better.  People go to theme parks to have fun once in a while. To escape from their mundane lives. 

The hardcore crowd would rather live in their daily life.  The majority of people don't want that you lot just need to wake up and realize your just a bunch of crotchety old men on a porch whining about the good old days.

The problem is that the 25% of the people that started the market don't want to play a game like WoW, and 70% of those people that are now playing WoW don't want to play a game like WoW, when they can just play WoW.  Leaving 5% to play games like WoW.

The 25% gets over looked too much, these are the people who played UO, EQ, AC.. and the "old" mmorpgs.. and they still play these games to this day.  They don't have a game that is like their old game.. until Darkfall comes out (I can't speak for UO or EQ(.  A game that caters to thie 25% that WANTED freedom.

Oh.. and your fast food analogy is .. just wrong in regards to WoW being a 'fast food' game.  Fact: More people play WoW then ANY OTHER GAME.  They spend more time playing WoW.. then doing anything else during the week.. at least the majority do.

Fast food games, would be games like tetris.

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by SupderD

There are 3 people on these boards.  Fanbois, Skeptics, and haters.  I'm betting that the fanboys are actually on the lowest end of this totem pole as far as numbers go, but I thought it would be a great opportunity to actually take a look, and to actually see who is who amounst the posters here.

I'll start.  I'm a Skeptic.  I don't believe all of the hype behind this game.  Vague comments and speculation by the devs as well as the posters on this forum lend to that sort of attitude.

 

Asking this on mmorpg.com lol most are trolls haters vaporware shouters :P

 

And over zealous fanbois

Originally posted by Blodpls

It is possible to like doing something, do a good and honest job of it and make a profit you realise?

You would want option 3.

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Printscreen

50 internet dollars says DF isn't going to make its Jan 22, 09 deadline for whatever reason.

 

Ahh... come on.

To at least make the bet fun, you've got to predict the reason for the delay. 

To say "for whatever reason"  that's a bit too easy... so you'd have to give me 4 to 1 odds. 

The delay will be due to the publisher (GNi.. right?) 4:1 odds

The Marketing Landscape won't let Darkfall release 10:1

I beleive that every company is out to make a profit.  Volunteers usually have "other" jobs that pay their bills, but looking at the staff of Aventurine, and the sheer undertaking of Darkfall, I strongly believe that Aventurine isn't doing charity work by creating a game for the love of it (maybe originally, when it was sort of a "side" project, but not now).

So.. What do you think? 

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Guillermo197

 Looking forward to the January 22nd quote. 

One thing to realize is that the current fanboys are not the fanboys from 2003 when those comments were made.  People ditched the game back then as vaporware.  Even the biggest fanboys melted into the woodwork and disappeared.

Then Tasos waits a year and releases 'new' information and people who have never heard of the game become the new fanboys and say how much the genre needs a game like DF... and they become the new fanboys and because they have never been burnt by Tasos, they give him the benefit of the doubt.

This cycle has happened at least 3 times in the past.   DF fails to launch or go into a serious beta, then it disappears from the radar for awhile only to come back with a set of new, unsuspecting fanboys.

Jan 22nd is going to come and go.  The fanboys are going to realize they've been duped and they will disappear.  Then in 6 months, Tasos will start over again and garner up another couple dozen fanboys who will flock to the forums and claim how great the feature set is... etc.

How can people read those quotes from 5 years ago and believe anything said about DF?  5 years ago, they were supposedly a month away from open beta? 

 

As much as I dislike you.. you are correct.

I think it works like this..

Aventurine runs out of money from investors.. or they flake hurting the employees status of living.  They then drum up a bunch of publicity, get new investors to pay off the old investors (ponzi scheme anyone?).. and continue to "develop" darkfall..

 

 

you dislike me?  :) and I have no clue who you are.

LOOK MOM,  I'M FAMOUS

You spent many a day bashing WAR post release because it wasn't "WoW" enough for you.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Guillermo197

 Looking forward to the January 22nd quote. 

One thing to realize is that the current fanboys are not the fanboys from 2003 when those comments were made.  People ditched the game back then as vaporware.  Even the biggest fanboys melted into the woodwork and disappeared.

Then Tasos waits a year and releases 'new' information and people who have never heard of the game become the new fanboys and say how much the genre needs a game like DF... and they become the new fanboys and because they have never been burnt by Tasos, they give him the benefit of the doubt.

This cycle has happened at least 3 times in the past.   DF fails to launch or go into a serious beta, then it disappears from the radar for awhile only to come back with a set of new, unsuspecting fanboys.

Jan 22nd is going to come and go.  The fanboys are going to realize they've been duped and they will disappear.  Then in 6 months, Tasos will start over again and garner up another couple dozen fanboys who will flock to the forums and claim how great the feature set is... etc.

How can people read those quotes from 5 years ago and believe anything said about DF?  5 years ago, they were supposedly a month away from open beta? 

As much as I dislike you.. you are correct.

I think it works like this..

Aventurine runs out of money from investors.. or they flake hurting the employees status of living.  They then drum up a bunch of publicity, get new investors to pay off the old investors (ponzi scheme anyone?).. and continue to "develop" darkfall..

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by almerel

@downtoearth

Thank you for proof reading or slowing down. I can read your post clearly now :)

@everyone else

If your sick of us ranting and raving back and forth don't come to these forums. Even though some of us might appear to hate one another, I doubt it's true. We all have very strong beliefs about DF and it shows through daily. I bet though if we were on a different forum we might all be on different sides. Some of our rivals here might be our allies there and vice versa.

Just let us have our fun and don't take it personally

 

 

Love it or hate it... this is mmorpg.com  

 

It's an acquired taste I guess. 

 

only person i dislike on this site is tenspotting or failfails another 1 of his alts ><

 

Maybe I missed something, but how do you know they are all TenSpotting?

To be fair... some are kinda obvious.
 

 

Just like we would be able to spot an alt of downtoearth:

 

thi sis wht ana lt ofd owntoeart hs woud loo klike   

 

But, for those of us who've read a number of his posts... we realize his keyboard is jack, but for some reason he's grown fond of it. 

His keyboard isn't jacked.. he's just doesn't care about typing..

And you wrote anal.

Where's the option for 'fanboi" hater?