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Originally posted by Venger
Low skill area would be the higher security areas. But Eve is set up different then most games. Where would lowbies mass in UO? Basically most dungeon level one except desard ice and maybe fire, orc forts, most of t2a (lost land), lizardman swamps, surrounding areas around towns fighting deer etc. basically anywhere a lowbie could get skill and not get one shotted. Dungeons to t2a (vesper graveyard and that dungeon that lead right into town) and moongates (only lowbies usually used them since of recalls). Now please tell me you can't roughly figure out where to go in a skill based game to kill lowbies.
Ideally, I firmly bleieve the game should be setup like EVE. That way you can build towers anywhere you like and guildmates can all farm the surrounding region they own
lowbies should be able to do something to survive at the player run city in a good sandbox. No one should be forced to follow a linear path. Rather, you can takeover good land (like in EVE) and everyone shares the wealth
So you are correct for certian titles. I am correct in regards to a more loose sandbox (well my point of view I can be wrong!) |
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Originally posted by sortec
Other than the combat aspect, a game called "A tale in the desert" is exactly what you described. You start out in the middle of the sandbox (yep, it is a desert after all) with nothing but a few seeds. From there you do what you will... I played the first year it was up. It is also one of those games that has a distinct end. Once certainly worldly criteria are met, the game will stop and reset (and no, it is not an all of a sudden type thing, you will have far warning that its coming). But the lack of combat made it boring in my opinion. That is why I didnt resub. There was so much to do... you had to litterally build everything, farm everything, harvest everything. You needed to plant seed so you can harvest the crop to make things from it (like cloth, or straw, or other things). Then, the products that you made are then final goods or used in other things. LIke the straw was needed to make bricks. But you also had to harvest mud. Build a brick mold, and a brick drying rack. Everything you needed to survive you had to do (less combat). If they added that in, I think it would be the end all game of the century!
At least you gave it a try which says something. Sounds very interesting there. Very unique and fresh |
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another example from EVE, vets fly Tech I ships all the time because it costs them far less to lose. My friend, aserious old timer in EVE, got ganked by a new character the other day while he was out mining
There should be no such distinction between a vet and a lowbie if game setup right. Attach more "risk" to wearing expensive epics and you have a balance. Vets wont wear their best items everywhere they go like they're gods |
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Originally posted by Venger
A lot really please elaborate? I played on AoC RP server which was one of how many? RP and FFA pvp do not have to go hand and hand. So no he is not correct. No lowbies? Low skill players are no different then low level characters. You can't tell who is and who isn't a lowbie? Hmm yeah cause a pker couldn't possible just to to a low skill mob area like Shame level 1 to hunt lowbies. Who are you trying to kid? Hiding level would not stop people high level/skill people from going into low level/skill areas to easily pwn lowbies.
You never played a skill-based game at all have you. There is no such thing as a "low skill area". Let's go with EVE since that's popular. Please do share where the low skill areas are [edit] I must admit you are right to an extent however! If you follow...... |
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I should add though for a small community FFA works. But for a large mass of people (1,000+) I would investigate something like EVE In the end, I think the important aspect of sandbox is player interaction and player driven content. You can have that content perhaps without direct player killing. Players can just work together to build cities like they do in A Tale of The Desert or whatever. I never played it; so see for yourself. But I read Laura mention it was a sandbox; player driven world. No pvp So I hold to the stance that sandbox can work without direct player killing although the PKs add a certain drama and politics that appears to be unmatched |
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Originally posted by Deneb
I've seen it work but only in games built from ground up to support PVP; mostly indie / independant. Usually the penalties for death are pretty harsh. They never let you just respawn like an immortal. On one particular server I played on (RP-FFA PVP), once you die that was it. Was over. And there were politics like this. There was a group of crafters that held monopoly over the player crafted goods. So the players were talking bout rebeling and killing them all. And the devs encouraged it Not sure how it all played up in the end. I left to try out EVE was an rp server on NWN Occasionally you might have a griefer popup that killed you for no reason. The GMs booted those. You had to have a valid RP reason for ending someone. The situation I mentioned above was a valid RP reason |
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Originally posted by Venger
It's this kind of backwards thinking that keep sandboxes from becoming anymore then Darkfalls. Since there isn't levels you can't gank lowbies? What?!? That makes absolutely no sense. What I love is when people pull out the "I'm roleplaying" to justify acting like douche bags. Not saying you are doing this because maybe you are or maybe you are full of shit but it is fishy that everyone uses this a justification.
Actually there are a lot of RP servers that are FFA he's correct. This goes back to MUDs. And yes roleplayers will kill anyone lowbie or not; due to roleplaying reasons. EVE has a roleplay alliance (CVA) that is just as hard as any other. And they will kill you purely for roleplaying purposes if you pose a threat to Amarr empire. CVA has a strick KOS policy for players that joined gallente/minnie empire
And technically there is no "lowbie" if the presence of levels is not there. Vets have no way to tell you are a lowbie. A vet can put on lowbie armor in a skill-based game and 'pretend'. In UO, players would put on mage gear over their Armor to trick players into thinking their clothies for example Recall thats the whole point of skill-based games, they lack tactical transparency. They don't hang a number over your head informing everyone in town you're a noob and please come end me
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Originally posted by Orthedos
How absurd can you be? You really think that the world is free for all? Barbarism is the days when everything is "almost" FFA and we call them the dark days in history, where civilisation collapsed, trade collapse, population dwindled till even the FFA have no one else to kill, one one else to trade with, no one else to talk to. You think that is glorified? So you imagine a game in which you can kill anyone you want, and yet NPCs will be there to serve you, love you, kiss you a** and repair your armor, sell you food, sell you arrows. Oh great you have real logic. So you imagine a game in which you can recklessly ambush and kill anyone you want, and these RL people would have to team with you, go explore with you, let you backstab them when they go pull a mob for the TEAM to work out. AND you have the balls to suggest that these other people will love you, adore you, play with you, pay for the game, the account, spend the time in the game and be AMBUSHED by you. Oh great, hate to tell you this, you stink, I do not want you to be in my game, and I definitely do not want to be in a game with you around. So you imagine you are a good customer? Drive most players away till the game becomes a ghost town while you camp the new player spawn point hoping for the next player, who might never show up, as the game is driven to the point of extinction by your malicious behaviour. Wake up call. Developers do not make those kind of games because they hate you too, and they make sure you behave yourself when playing in their game, and they do so by making it NOT free for all. Many sane people in MMORPG has already pointed out that sandbox is not the same thing as FFA PKing.
I agree you can have a sandbox without FFA actually |
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Originally posted by Nerf09
High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity? PvP occurs anywhere in EVE so your example fails. please play a game before trying to talk about it. |
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ffa pvp is a tricky one. What works even in FPS titles is Teams. This way the unskilled can join a team with skilled players and still 'win'.Plus this gives designers opportunities to design for group based play where you have roles, etc Anyway what I think should be investigated is having 'empire' (kinda like EVE) where ganking is punished if caught or whatever. There should be levels of danger. 1.0 should be 'safe'. But you have less and less guards the further away we get from civilization Let players fight along the outskirts for control of kingdoms and stake their own claim. Anyway, the Empire region (in the center) should be safest of all. As you get to outer ring, you can have some good pvp. Best solution for all sides. Let the borders be all out FFA PVP. Let the inside be governed with guards The empire citizens fight together and have a reason. The outlaws (or player run factions), can fight for control of border kingdoms
Only problem that is serious too me is how to handle persistent ownership of cities. Its not a good feeling to go to sleep, all is well, then logon next day and all is burned down. EVE has a complex system for this. That is where you win or fail. Because that means more work / grind for pkers. PvPers want to fight when they online, not off. |
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RPGs vs FPS games, or Why I'm Tired of Killing Rabbits
Off-Topic Discussion « General Discussion 8/13/08 10:01:47 PM
I love FPS just wish they would vary more. Most just give ya a gun and some targets. I like the mods for half life 2 you can find some original ones here and there thats not trying to be counterstrike 3.0 but rather they just fun to play |
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My list of what MMO's need to get rid of immediately
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion 8/13/08 9:34:37 PM
Originally posted by Bodeus
That's an interesting perspective... |
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