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I voted for EVE but I suspect Darkfall is much better. DFO integrates what I like bout PVP a bit more- player skill, global banking (this way iof you quit a guild its easier to move to a new area), and less emphasis on markets. Plus in DFO you dont have to wait on a real life timer for skills.
I've played EVE for years and lived out in 0.0. But been looking for a new experience.
I would've voted for DFO but didnt have a chance to pvp yet. For now I vote for EVE but from what ive seen in films DFO looks a lot more exciting cause you can dodge incoming fire. In EVE, you just point and click and hit-and-miss is determined by a dice roll. So even though the strategy is there its missing the reflexes and such that I like in FPS games |
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Seems odd too me that the game sells for so low so soon. How could it drop 50%+ within 2 months? Anyway free weekend should be going on so play the game and see if you like it. I think they hid a lot of the flaws fairly decently. Most people might not see the flaws til L20+.
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Originally posted by prototypo
Yeah and they didnt go f2p so whats your point. And where are everyone getting this dwindling number population business, cryptic has never released the numbers and low server populations can be attributed to a multitude of things whether people are at work, school or another mmo at the moment.
1. Virtually my entire guild, penny arcade, quit the game from what I can tell. WE used to have bout 50-100 people in the chat at a time. Now its down to 2-3 active members last time I logged in 2. The Instances for Millineum city and Desert is waaayyyy lower than it was at launch 3. The official boards used to be bursting with activity. I remember if I started a thread it would be quickly buried. Now I go to Hero Games section on the site and only see a rare few souls posting. Threads remain a long time
IT feels like the game has a much lower population too me. Right now the free weekend is going on so I'd expect a lot more traffic in the lower level zones though. I'm in the upper zones (31-40) |
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Originally posted by DarLorkar
I don't understand how can people be so pumped for that game (STO). Champions is not a horrible game but felt really rushed and suffered a lot of issues. I guess we'll have to wait and see but I don't have much faith in Cryptic to deliver a solid STO experience. |
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The subscription cost for this game is just too much too me. I just canceled my sub again :( F2P would be a good solution for them. The population has seriously thinned out over the months. They're always letting people play the game for free once a month anyway |
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I agree with the comments above. It's worth buying but the monthly sub seems a bit too much.
Some parts are great. Lots of good ideas. But its surprising how quickly the community shrunk. I really dig the Zombie Apoc that came with Blood Moon. That's all I normally do. I enjoy my character. But I just dont think I'll stick with it too long. I'll probably take a break, wait a few months, then come back
There's just still lots and lots of broken powers. Melee on a global scale is really lackluster. Lots of power sets still need work. Some few powers are crazy overpowered. They gradually fix the overpowered powers but it often takes them many, many weeks (like Mindful reinforcement). And its just odd. I've never seen a game release with so much seriously broken things
But its fun in a way. Like a few weeks ago I used Death Arc on my Electric and wrecked mobs. It was crazy overpowered. They fixed that. So now I'm using CoPD. They will soon nerf that. But til they do I'm enjoying this broken power And thats how it goes. You just arrange your character so that once a power get nerfed you quickly drop it. Then you wait for the Devs to add a new broken power (like Imbue) and then just respec into it
--------------------------- It's almost as if they dont play their own game. Seriously, a power like Imbue any gamer knows it will be exploited fast to insta-one-shot players in PVP. But the devs seem like they don't know anything or have any clue. IT's very odd and really bad. They just add a new seriously overpowered, sick ability and wait for people to cry on the forums. Then they take action I seriously with all my heart believe their balance team is either extremely incompetent or just supremely inept. I know this sounds bad or maybe rude. But it's apparent they dont know what they're doing
The PVE seems so uninspired too. So I jsut stay in Zombie Apoc mostly. Zombie Apoc is alot like Left 4 Dead. But anyway now that LEft 4 Dead 2 is out i might be playing that alot more instead tho
Fun game. worth a buy. worrth a try. Not really worth the sub. Kinda makes me sad but thats how it is |
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I'm not clear on how much ISK a T2 BPO owner makes but lets say your point is valid OP in which it might be. Well, its most likely possible to trade for a T2 BPO. So that makes it fair in a way. It's just an extremely rare resource
Additionally, think of it this way. Normally, the more ISK you make- the more expensize and exotic your tastes become. I'm sure these rich guys you speak of were probably flying around in T3 ships when they first came out and cost 1 billion. These are probably also the same guys floating around in caps. So the loss to their wallet is perhaps equivalent to your losses to your personal wallet if you look at it on a percentage basis
I know if I was rich, I'd just fly the most expensive and high performance ship I could find. This way I protect my investment into my implants (cause if I was rich I'd just pvp with +5s on instead of +3/+4) |
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Originally posted by Nizur
Yeah at times I did feel like it was a senseless grind. It's an odd feeling to have in this game- because when we're just running missions the XP is just so easy it flows like butter |
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I did the Blood Moon PVE event this weekend and defeated all 13 heroes.
My thoughts good & bad: good: - People of all levels banded together to do the event. You had Level 40s fighting side-by-side with Level 18s. This was GREAT. Not even in the more polished MMOs do you see devs encourage grouping of all levels like this - When an undead hero emerges (like Vigil). You had different groups work together to kill the Villain - I love zombie apoc. Great fun. - You get perks and unlock costumes for defeating the villains. Plus you unlock the new set. - You got XP once you completed the quests (sort of uncertain on this one. Quests that were L26 I got XP. Quests that were L18 I dont recall any XP)
Bad: - all the crypts were the same. - Like OP says. The zombies dont scale to your level. This was a good thing. It allowed us to skip all the fodder and just rush to the end and kill the boss. - The bosses are on a 30 min timer. But it forces the community to work together to share the quests. I thought htis was good actually sort of. We nevrer had to sit there and wait on a boss to spawn. We simply killed a different boss then came back and slayed that boss. Plus I saw people offering to share their quests for bosses in global chat.
My only main gripe really is the Quests did not award XP regardless of Level. For this event, XP shoulda been scaled to your level. This way after killing the boss you get XP no matter what I'm glad the zombies didnt scale to my Level. It woulda been an awful grind to have to kill all those zombies. you gotta do 13 crypts you know. Each crypt has bout 100-200 zombies or something. So thats 13 x 100 which equals 1300 zombies! Screw dat LOL. Cause they were such low level, you could blow right past them. Plus, the final boss was L18 and was fun to kill. If he scaled to my level he woulda been impossible for us to 2 man!!! So I liked the event. Never grouped so much in this game ever.....
Sure, you coulda just soloed normal quests and got better XP. It was a huge fail on that part. But I gotta say I had fun. Lots of fun really. I was surprised. But i wanted to unlock the new set pretty bad for some reason |
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Originally posted by SpyridonZ
you can pvp somewhat casually. I've always been in 0.0 in a big alliance. Our space gets invaded here and there so all I gotta do is login and join a roaming gang. they always form up at same place so i keep a pvp clone there. When i wanna pvp i jump clone to it. The time consuming part perhaps is when we roam out at a far away space. So if we dont get pod killed, it can be a long trek back sometimes. but usually its full of action cause we tresspass in hostile 0.0 space so even the way back is full of fun
Sometimes ive messed up and actually pvped on my expensive clone. And like clockwork I never remember until I've lost my ship and traveling back in the pod. So those are always intense moments
the game really comes alive with the pvp. It can be casual or as hardcore as you want it to be
Even when it came to fleet fights it was kinda casual. I just show up at where they need me (well I take a Titan jump bridge to get there guess not everyone has that luxury tho) and when i get tired I just fly back home. If I'm around when rest of fleet is done then if memory serves me correctly we jump bridge back home via a Titan. So things might be more casual or hardcore it just depends on the Alliance
The problem typically comes in place where, a casual -new- player will have quite a long time before (most) established corps will even accept them or allow them to head out to 0.0 ops - especially a corp who is ready with titans etc to assist. That was the hardest part for me - you need at least 6 or so months of SP to even be accepted by most corps. Of course you could join smaller ones until then... but it's just not as fun, and I found the first months pretty painful as you are limited on what you could do much more then you are once you have adequate skill points. Even once finding a decent Corp, most usually put you in a high-sec training corp for a month or so, even if you already know how to PvP, just because they want to avoid spys etc. Boooring, lol. Can you honestly say you have never played hardcore at any time in your career? I have not found many people who were successful without playing hardcore at some time in their career - at least enough to meet or get noticed by a corp and become close enough with them that they trust you.
I've always lived out in 0.0 since I started. I believe I only spent 1 month out in empire before moving out to 0.0. I think a good corp will put newbies to use by outfitting them with rifters. Nope I've never really played hardcore in my mind. Last night for instance I went on a fleet op but I had to do stuff with the kids etc in the middle of an op. I just assigned my drones to a teammate and pretty much let them do all the killing til I could come back to my keyboard. Man I love being a Gallente :) I think theres alot of Alliances/Corps that prefer newbies. I know we had a hard time getting my buddy to join our corp that had a long violent history of fighting against our Alliance. He was a real life friend so we vouched for him. On the flipside, our other buddy was a newbie and he got real easy So I honestly think the good corps will welcome newbies. I've seen some corps have crazy requirements but I've never messed with those. From my point of view they seem like a scam but I could be wrong |
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Originally posted by SpyridonZ
Eh, to be honest, it depends on what you do. The skill up system could be considered casual since you dont have to play to skill up... But Eve casual??? Not really... Only if you did certain things like concentrate on trading/manufacturing (things that can get done while ur offline), etc... I mean, you could try to play it casually, but being the type of sandbox that it is, it requires quite a bit of time to accomplish anything. If you PvP, Just finding fights typically takes quite a long time, if your a missioner youll need to put awhile aside just to finish the majority of higher level missions that are worth it. Traveling takes a long time. Solo mining could be somewhat casual but if you get serious your going to need to put some time aside for mining ops as well. Even finding a decent corp can take quite a bit of time with the restrictions most of them have. All the best aspects of the game require a bit of time investment, because at its core, its a sandbox game, which means you only get out of it as much as you invest in to it. Not saying it's a bad game, but I've never been able to play it casually, any time I've played it I needed to put alot of work in to it, and if I couldnt put in full amounts of work, its simply wasnt anywhere near as entertaining.
you can pvp somewhat casually. I've always been in 0.0 in a big alliance. Our space gets invaded here and there so all I gotta do is login and join a roaming gang. they always form up at same place so i keep a pvp clone there. When i wanna pvp i jump clone to it. The time consuming part perhaps is when we roam out at a far away space. So if we dont get pod killed, it can be a long trek back sometimes. but usually its full of action cause we tresspass in hostile 0.0 space so even the way back is full of fun Luckily due to wormholes, its much easier to go to some hostile 0.0 space in the blink of an eye. So if you take advantage of this you can have some fun action packed pvp.
Sometimes ive messed up and actually pvped on my expensive clone. And like clockwork I never remember until I've lost my ship and traveling back in the pod. So those are always intense moments
the game really comes alive with the pvp. It can be casual or as hardcore as you want it to be
Even when it came to fleet fights it was kinda casual. I just show up at where they need me (well I take a Titan jump bridge to get there guess not everyone has that luxury tho) and when i get tired I just fly back home. If I'm around when rest of fleet is done then if memory serves me correctly we jump bridge back home via a Titan. So things might be more casual or hardcore it just depends on the Alliance
Anyway overall its not as casual as something like WoW where u just click a button and you're instantly teleported to a battleground. But its nothing hardcore like u must play 2-3 hrs to find hostiles. well at least not for me :) We used to have a hostile neighbor literally next door to us. The PVP was Amazing. We had constant strife. but now that we own the area around us we gotta travel out a little further some fights |
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Originally posted by Gdemami
This was an excellent response I must say. So good I'm just not going to say anything else. It's my fault for just shooting at rats in 0.0 to make my isk. I keep telling myself I'm gonna go hit a wormhole or go back to trading or hell even do EVE Poker. But I'm afraid I've fallen into a comfortable, lazy slump where I just wanna do the samething over and over.
I guess thats the danger to EVE. Level based games have a way of 'pushing' you out of an area. but in EVE, if you wanted you could just farm L1 missions for years. That's also the beauty of it. But its juts hard for me to try something new cause my character is maximized for ratting and pwning in pvp (or dying fabolously in pvp rather) |
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is this much different to city of heroes ?
General Discussion « Champions Online 11/06/09 12:56:29 PM
Yeah you can grab powers like Lunge, mighty leap, Lariat, etc. Still, if you grab the Melee energy builder you must be within 7 range of the target. So you'll find yourself having to take some sort of hold or root so you can keep your victim still to charge and long attack like Haymaker. It just feels awkard and clunky because you are rooted while you do this. And worse, mobs do a lot more dmg while you're upclose like I mentioned before. But wait- ranged players can have the same defenses a Melee has. I know my Melee once I'm done respeccing him into ranged he will still have Con/Str as his primary stats. So he'll be able to tank just as much as any tank while dissing out ranged attacks. Even better, when he does his chargeup attacks his range with be 100 yards. So I dont have to waste time using a hold or root or snare. I can just laydown the smackdown
Melee are just sort of cool concept wise but are not balanced with Range at all. The Devs didnt really give them any cool bonuses for having to fight close ranged. However, the devs still believe Melee have an advantage because they can 'in theory' build energy faster than ranged. But that's not practical because targets move around all the time. And by the time you get a hold going, a ranged player will have destroyed all the mobs. Its really bad for melee on teams. They really dont ever come into their own unless the team is fighting a supervillain that can last long enough for a melee to do something
CoH Melee vs CO Melee
In CoH they had a class system so it goes without saying you had 100% knockup/knockdown protection even as a newbie. Also, you had 100% hold protection. all this assuming you dont get detoggled Also, once you initiated an attack within range of a mob, even if it got out of range, you'd still nail it. This is not the case in CO. The mob must remain in range the entire duration of the attack.
CO Melee is inferior to CoX Melee in everyway. I can understand the devs logic on one hand. Since they went classless, they had to make it so you need to put your points into a stat to gain Knockdown/Hold protection. So melee should be stating STR. Still, I've seen L40 Melee complain they still get bounced around. My Melee isnt L40 right now so I cant say. But in CoH, you had 100% knockdown protection. So in pvp, you did not worry bout someone knocking you around. My Melee in CO around L20 got knocked back chained
Anyway Melee are not horrible to play or anything. I just dont think they have anything on the true Melees we had in CoX games.
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I just resubbed cause I wanted to level up my main a little closer to cap now that they've added a bit more content. I like the zombie apoc scenario its been a lot of fun so far. Initially I thought it was juts gonna be deathmatch you know like the UTC cage arena and BASH. But really, zombie apoc seems to have a lot of forethought and the design of it is not bad. I'm gonna give it 2 thumbs up. The XP can be fairly good if your team lasts long etc as well.
And I'm surprised my Electric has been left untouched so far. I guess Cryptic management must've finally put down the hammer and told the balance team to just stop nerfing the crap out of everyone and take their time. Even though somethings are still overpowered, it still makes the game fun for the time being if you follow. The pve missions still feel vary bland like most any other MMO. But unfortunately I still gotta ding them when it comes to grouping. If crossover woulda granted 100% XP I believe you'd see ppl group more.
I probably will just try to maxout my main or get it fairly close to the cap and might still take a break.
I must say though if they were to add just bit more objective based pvp maps for 1-30 I think they can retain more subs. And take their time with the nerfs like they are. Just maybe this game can improve more and more.
---------- I am concerned bout the population though. For instance in ZA (zombie apoc) I just see the same faces over and over. It appears there is only 1 ZA map running for 20-30 group (one of my characters is L27). The zones also seem less now. But I'm not playing at prime times or on the weekend yet. So maybe the pop is relatively the same for all I know. but for a 1 server setup I'd expect to see a lot more pvp/pve scenarios like ZA running.
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Originally posted by Ghostmind
I agree with this. To be blunt though, most of the discontent in the theme and style of the game's setting and presentation is likely coming from comic book readers/superhero fans who only recently (relatively, as in within the past 20/30 years) got into it, or people too young to know any differently and haven't bothered to really look back. Comics weren't dark, or even really gritty, until the 80s. They had serious storylines, yes, but always in a style similar to Champions, i.e., not taking themselves *too* seriously or with too much weight. Even Champions addressed this with Dark Champions, which is decidedly more comparable to the Modern Age.
X-men, Spiderman, Hulk, etc always have taken themselves very seriously. I disagree with this post. It is not difficult to get a hold of Classic X-Men books. |
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Originally posted by Gdemami
It's both a sandbox and doesn't have much content. But I could say the same of EVE really. I havent seen much content added over the years ive played. I'm still killing the same rats ive always have. Only new thing I've seen them add was T3 and sleeper |
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Comic books that I've always brought did not feel 'cheesy' if I follow this thread This weekend I just purchased 'The End League', 'Star Wars KOTR series' made by Dark Horse comics, Fathom, Dynamo 5, Green Lantern Blackest night, Action Comics, and PowerGirl. The only way that felt lighthearted was Power Girl (made by DC Comics) which is a new series. But all the other popular titles I always buy always takes themselves very seriously. I really hated the game went such a cheesy approach. It is almost as if they have no respect for the comic book genre and decided to make fun of it. But I guess the Champions IP they licensed is just campy like that. Champions world is like watching Sky High. It's entertaining to watch but you don't feel immersed. When you watch Spiderman 1&2, I'd say most people feel immersed in a world that was carefully crafted around realistic elements to immerse you. I really wished Champions took itself more seriously but I guess they are just being true to their source material. But it's nothing like the Comic Books I regularly buy. I would even go so far as to say their power system is nothing like the comics I buy. What superhero you know of has to spam some weak attack in order to regen their power? What about superjump that does huge amounts of dmg to you... What about Flight being so easily detoggled in PVP you find yourself falling quite often. If superman was in Champions Online universe he'd get his butt kicked cause he cant fly or use his superspeed (-travel powers).
But I disgress! Let me conclude by saying comic books I grew up on ALWAYS took themselves serious from the Incredible Hulk to Spiderman comics to X-Men to X-Factor to Sandman |
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Going to keep this simple (sorry the post got long winded) - - CoH does not grant XP for PVP from what I recall. Champs does. So you see more pve'ers trying out pvp in that game. (+) - CoH has excellent Looking for Group tools. This is absent from CO (-) - CoH has a restrictive Class system if you ask me. Champs is totally freeform (+) - CoH has excellent system that promotes grouping. I've had characters that leveled all the way via groups. Champs on the other hand, appears to be a solo MMO through and through. They finally added the ability to share quests but it is NOT 100% Quest XP like CoH was. I dont recall this issue ever in CoH. Ever since Issue 4-5 I recall we enjoyed great group xp. (-) - CoH has a true Villain side. Champs lacks that depth (-) - CoH has a much better combat system all the way if you ask me. You could 'queue' your next attack. You could detoggle a Tank's defenses. You had to toggle/detoggle things and that added depth. You could overlap buffs. It was awesome and this game is missing all that. WTF Cryptic (-) - CoH had much better travel powers (my opinion). Superjump did not kill you with its use. In CO, Superjump will take huge chunks away from your life. They put you into a falling state all the time. It's plain retarded. Also, in CoH you could stack travel powers. superjump + superspeed was incredible and felt fluid. Albeit, unbeatable combo. But it was fun. The devs never got this so Champs lacks travel power stacking.... (-) - PVP in CoH pre-I13 was great fun. Don't know bout now. But pre-I13 PVP with Villains vs Heroes was more fun. But I'd say they both equally blow in this department. Even at its height, CoH PVP was an afterthought as well.... But at least it had lots of features like superbases, siren's call, warburg, recluse victory, etc. CO is missing all that. They really just took the Arenas and brought those back. So everyone just deathmatches. But I didnt do Zombie Apoc (=) - Champs community seems much worse too me. Lots of people don't want to group up. Hard to believe CoH and Champs was made by same dev. The pvpers are the most whiney bunch (Excluding WoW) that I've ever seen. They are always asking for nerfs with plain disregard to the consequences to PVE. It's interesting though seeing how a young MMO with fairly exciting powers sink further and further down due to the small, vocal minority on the forums. In CoH, us pvpers didnt ask for nerfs that would gimp people in PVE. But since Champs allows pvpers to xp w/o needing PVP, you see a bunch of retards lobbying for nerfs that would decimate PVE. In CoH, much less of an issue because you got no xp from PVE if you follow. (* ask me later if you want more details and links to official forum posts for examples) (-) - CO has the Nemesis system as you know which was fairly decent (+) - Melee is all kinds of useless in Champs. Just my opinion. Ranged players can grab the same defenses and they can also go Con/STR if they wish (I know one of my ranged/melee hybrids around 20ish was this build). Mobs do more dmg upclose so being melee is just punishment too me. Worst, all the time ranged players will knock mobs all over the place, etc. Unlike CoH, Melee cannot queue up their next attack. It's retarded. You gotta keep the mobs in range to connect. My Melee had a hard time with groups. Unlike most any other MMO, Melee cannot queue their attacks. The target must remain within 7 yards range in order for the attack to connect. Worse, powers like Defiance (your primary defense with Might) require you to be close and have aggro. But the mobs are too busy getting knocked around by other ranged teammates that spam Force explosion and such. So I saw my DPS shoot down on teams as well..... Guess you can chalk up half of this to my teammates being nooblets.... (-) - Grouping just took a serious nose dive in Champs. Groupmates cannot earn the same XP unless they have the same quest. So you feel kinda bad asking people to help you with missions they do not have. I'ts like they are performing a pure charity service due to the low mob XP people earn. Now they added Crossover missions but they still don;'t grant 100% quest XP. Really lame. At least in other MMO like WoW I coulda sworn we earned decent xp for killing mobs. But these new MMOs like Champs and Spellborn decided to nerf mob xp which makes grouping go to shits. (-)
Anyway, I still recommend a try if you are gunho for a superhero MMO. But just dont go in with high expectations. It's unfortunate you only had 2 days to play. You really dont get a good feel for the game til L20+ I'd say. Maybe around L25 is where you want to be before you can evaluate it
I still hope the MMO does well since its at least a Classless MMO with a 1 server architecture. So support the small bit of innovation I'd say. But dont expect any innovation whatsoever in the PVE department. They just sort of copy/pasted some elements that worked in other MMOs and brought them here. I'd say the lower levels (1-15ish) are a blast to play and you can at least experience Canada or Desert. But after you exhaust those the rest of the game is a linear path to 40 with excact same stories each replay. CoH on other hand was much more fun to make alts cause there was so much different quests and Grouping was the BEST in any MMO. Onpar with Guild wars prophecies campaign I'd say! |
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Originally posted by ghost047 As always, some are not happy with the amount of Xp you get from sharing, my friends and I never had a problem with leveling. As for your second link (not sure if it's a mistake or you just want to spread lies) atleast look at the date of the thread when you share a link, 1st post August 31 and last page September 14 which is a month and a half old and the last post is yesterday about a guy who says he's 29 and still didn't go to Monster Island which is good, you should get there at lvl 30.
Why would I want to spread lies? I care not if people want to play the game or not. That is true it appears someone bumped a thread that is a *whole month old* but if you search the rest of the forums you can still see complaints about severe lack of content. But granted, as long as you dont mean farming the repeatable slay 150 mobs quests over and over you can probably do fine.
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I was thinking bout resubbing for the crossover missions but it sounds like its pretty low xp. Was hoping you could share quests like you could in city of heroes but alas, Cryptic decided to get cheap with the xp. Granted, its easy as hell to level in Champs so i can see why they wanna slow it down. My Electric was just mowing down mobs & it was a fun set to play. But on the flip like I keep saying my Claws + Lightning reflex was a pain to level. There are still people complaining bout content gaps bigtime which is a little scary. But less scary if you pvp (xp is kinda decent if you dont mind getting pwned by exploited builds here and there) At least some good news is that some of the pvpers like the new Zombie Apoc.
Still tempted to return but really put off they fubared the crossover mission rewards. Was hoping they'd approach PVE like in CoH and award great xp to everyone that helps but nope.... kinda stupid if you ask me.
Sigh.... Really frustrating they have a game with so much potential it just needed a competent lead designer / management to polish the rough edges. |
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