They're taking steps to mainstream it, it seems. Normally I'm at odds with whether or not that's a good thing, but if there was ever a game that needed implementation of successful elements from other games, it's FF14. They've already lost me permanently no matter how much effort they put into the game, but I hope for the sake of the handful that still have hope, they don't lose the feel of the original game completely.

That is absolutely brilliant! Unless of course he dies from suffocation or hypothermia, that would suck. I should hope he's thought of that already. But otherwise, brilliant! I think not only will this help validate gaming in the lives of people as 'ways out', particularly to those who need it, but perhaps it will encourage more study into the benefits whereas normally people just focus on the most extreme exampels of the negatives (Mr. Heart-attack-after-70-straight-hours-of-gameplay *cough*)

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by Lukain

There are many FTP right now  & IMO these are the top 5

 

1: Lord of the rings online

2: Dungeons & Dragons Online

3: Guild Wars & soon GW2

4: Age of Conan

5 Champions Online

Note that there are very few Real FTP game  & none of them are worth playing

+ thare are many Asian style FTP MMO  but there not my style ..

 

I am intrested in hearing about Free To Play games that launched Free To Play. Not fail Pay To Play games listed here. Paying for content will always be fail imo. I know Eden Eternal is pretty solid and the upcomming Rusy Hearts looks good.

Guild Wars was not a failed P2P. It was never P2P, and GW2 isn't launching as P2P either. By the same token, it's not F2P either, you have to buy the game and then you play free forever after that.

Anyway, I'm playing Eden Eternal and Dragon Nest, and enjoying both. Dragon Nest is only CB and that ends in a few days, but I'll have Eden Eternal to keep me preoccupied until Rusty Hearts CB, and then hopefully after that I'll have both Dragon Nest and EE to keep me busy until Rusty is OB.

Originally posted by Sanity888

Most people who know the difference between “sandbox” and “theme park” games believe that sandbox games, at least MMO sandboxes, are a niche. I’m one of the few who don’t believe it. Everybody points out the success of World of Warcraft and the lack of any sandbox-type successes like that. World of Warcraft has 12 million subscribers, half of them are in Asia, and in reality only 3-4 million are in the United States. Second Life has 21.3 million accounts registered, and while yes, most of them were like me who only stayed around for a couple of minutes and then left, it still holds around 50 thousand concurrent users. There is also EVE Online, who has claimed some 300 thousand subscribers. Star Wars Galaxies saw the height of their subscriptions during the sandbox pre-CU days and it never recovered after the theme park-inspired NGE hit.

I'm not going to delve too deep here, I just wanted to point some things out. If WoW only had 1/10th its total subbers in the US it would still trounce every other MMO without breaking a sweat, in terms of subscription numbers. Never bring up WoW, especially when talking about vs. sandbox titles, because it will never serve your purpose.

Second Life's accounts =/= active players. I have an account there, and with the exception of occasionally logging in and cashing out the money I make selling pixels to people with far more disposable income than they need, I don't actually play.

SWG existed during a time when we didn't have the plethora of choices we do now, there's far more competition and people are far less likely to put up with the areas of grind and slow achievement that were parts of games like SWG or even earlier themepark incarnations like EQ. It's just a very different mindset and market these days.

EVE is boasting around 360k subscribers but here's a few things to consider. One, many people own more than one account (I have a friend with 3). Two, when it first launched, it was borderline failure, and didn't pick up until later. Three, it's had years to create and build upon content that at this point, no new sandbox is going to be able to catch up to. Four, it's a game that takes such a huge amount of effort to progress in that the people who have been there and made it their home are exceedingly unlikely to leave behind all their work to start over in a new game. Five, it's sci-fi, and there aren't many options out there for people who like that genre.

I wouldn't buy games through steam either. I don't have a problem with them, but I don't like that I can't play my games without logging into them first. That's just silly. I don't care if it helps fight against piracy (which by the way it doesn't, since I have tons of friends with steam and if I want to play a game I don't own I just log into their accounts, start the game then log out and fwoosh, I'm playing a game I don't own, for free). If I buy something, it's mine and that's that.

As for the people ranting and raging about EA, let's be honest, if TSW fails it's going to do so because Funcom is developing it. EA won't even have a chance to sip from that watery grave before Funcom lets TSW drown in it. EA is just another venue of selling the game, that's like people saying all the goods at a flea market are trash because the person running the market is a dick. Whether TSW fails or succeeds is purely on Funcom.

fun game is fun ;-; *plays*

Originally posted by preston326

Originally posted by jadedlevir

Originally posted by preston326

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by jado818

Should just make some new laws making penalties for doing these types of attacks more stringent.

 

Maybe a 5~10K$ fine?

 

I know if I had kids and ended up having to pay 10K dollars because they were dicking around on the internet doing DDoS on some random stupid company... they'd lose their computer pretty fast.

 

I'm pretty sure 5 - 10 years in prison would be a better deterrent.

Thats disproportional for the crime and you know it.

No. No its not. These recent hacks have cost hundreds of millions in damages because stupid kids want to screw around on the internet and be viral crusaders. It ridiculous, and it needs to stop.

I dont know the laws in your country, but here you go to jail  for about 5 years for killing someone. Now taking someones life cannot be equal to stealing data, besides the guy would come out of prison someday and he would be sereously messed up. So I believe its disproportional. However, I would fully agree with *harsh* fines, PW and ban from the Internet.

I dunno about your country, but in the US, killing someone typically is followed by life imprisonment except under rare circumstances of obvious jury corruption (which is then usually appealed anyway). IIRC, 'Life" means 25 years minimum and then you're up for parol, but whether you get that or not is debateable (it happens so rarely that when it does, it gets news coverage). And you can't ban someone from the internet, not without restricting them to their home for the rest of their lives, otherwise they can hack from another person's computer. And if you're restricting them to their home then...I don't know...sounds like life imprisonment, don't you think?

Wii U is blah, Dead Island is surprising, I don't share your feelings on PayDay (perhaps my soul was stolen by writers who assume too much), and Prime World...actually I've never heard of that one :O You piqued my interest on that. It sounds like a fun idea, I'll have to look into it.

My vote is Blade and Soul. Even though I have some concerns about it, I still see it doing well over here. It's been getting a lot of positive feedback so far from asian testers and sneak-peakers. My second choice was Secret World. TSW would actually be my first choice, but I don't trust Funcom. They really don't have a good track record with games. I think their biggest success was Anarchy Online? And that's not really saying much.

It's a great premise, and if they pull it off it'll definitely pull their name out of the dirt. I'm just doubtful that they can. I'd like to see it work though, what they're promising sounds pretty nice.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Im looking at the next few years of mmos being launched and this is what I see:

The Secret World
ArcheAge
Blade & Soul
Tera
Guild Wars 2
Star Wars: The Old Republic
World of Darkness
Dust 514/EvE
Undead Lab's Zombie mmos

I look at that list and I see rich selection of unique settings, combat styles, quest systems, end game options, social dynamics, and art direction. If you cant find something you like out of that list, Id say this genre is not for you.

Secret World:

Developed by Funcom who if nothing else, know how to turn a potential success into an utter failure. They fix it, though! They definitely patch it to hell and get it good...eventually. By then it's considered toxic and no one trusts it anymore. It retains a few hardcore players and diehard fans that've stuck with it from the beginning and that's as far as it goes.

ArchAge:

Sandbox mechanics, PvP territory wars and Graphics will draw in a huge crowd, and the majority of them will stick around. For a month. Maybe more. Then they'll fade. Asian games have notoriously bad support without a western publisher to relay the concerns of western players, and even then its debatable whether they're listening (*cough* Aion *coughcough*). People will feel lost and will tribble away until there's a server or two left of people that are actually active. The smaller amount of people will make it possible for those left behind to amass entire empires and power beyond anything anyone who joins later will compare to, forcing them to either join up with the reigning empire or fall under it.

Blade & Soul:

I actually don't know enough about this to predict a lot. What I do know is NCsoft is not trusted as a whole, and unlike GW2, they don't have Anet to hide behind. People will approach this with trepidation, though the action mechanic will provide some draw. The graphic style will turn a lot of people off (I think it's beautiful, though), especially the clothing female characters wear. Still, I think this will appeal to PvPers that want some more action-oriented gameplay without leaving the themepark elements behind.

TERA:

Not doing as well as anticipated, but still okay in Korea. I don't think it will succeed as much as people hope here. My understanding is even normal monsters take a long time to kill without a team backing you up, which is one of the principle complaints about FF14. There's also a lot of complaints about a lack of content, and what is there gets run through very quickly. Devs will need to create more meat for this game otherwise it'll be another DCUO debacle.

Guild Wars 2:

Huge, huge draw, will change the way a lot of mechanics in MMOs are seen. However, Anet has a rabid fanboy following which has on more than one occasion alienated people that will then look down on the game even if it's Christ incarnate. The lack of quests (there are none outside of the personal storyline) and event/pvp-driven character progression will appeal to a lot of gamers that are tired of typical themepark playstyle, but it may also alienate a lot of people who don't particularly like feeling lost without anything to guide them or let them know where they should be for their level. B2P model is attractive, but fear over details of the Item Mall may make people wary. GW2 will cause the biggest splash in the industry, for better or for worse.

SWTOR:

More bad reviews than good by reviewers people actually care about. People like to pretend reviews don't matter, but they do, and they'll color the views of a lot of potential players that don't come to forums (because most gamers never do) and thus don't see the players who are defending it. The more positive review I've seen is that it's 'playable', but with ludicrously high expectations due to the IP and Developer, sadness over lack of sandbox features, and the bad taste left in people's mouths due to DA2, SWTOR has an uphill battle. That said, while plenty complain about WoW-ish gameplay, it's still gathers a huge audience (WoW and games like it). I think this will be another Rift; people prophecy its early demise, and while there will be an expected drop-off, it will still prove to be successful, at least in the short-term.

I know nothing of the other three, except that World of Darkness has really pretty cloth movement <3 I don't see a zombie MMO going anywhere. I think it'll get hyped and die off quickly a la APB, but we'll see. Those are my predictions and *gasp* yes, I even mentioned some potential faults of GW2, my favorite. I love it, but nothing is ever 100%.

I wondered if TERA would be successful in Korea. There's supposedly little to no grind, and unless you're a casual player you run out of content VERY quickly. That's definitely a more Western mentality, where people seem to be more casual and are more interested in the things they get to do at endgame than they are getting there.

Still, 15 servers isn't exactly a small amount of people. I'm sort of surprised it's even that high, usually games top out somewhere between 3 to 8 once the 'newness' of it all wears thin. I think people just expected it to be more than it was. Now if those 15 servers become 3, then I'd worry.

I'm surprised I haven't seen this two part interview anywhere, though if it's actually on the main forum or just somewhere I didn't see then my bad:

Part 1:

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/previews/interview-guild-wars-2-pt1.html

Part 2:

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/previews/interview-guild-wars-2-pt2.html

They talk about their plans for expansions and the reasoning behind them (no more standalone), why they're going B2P and some more information on PvP and plans for cash shop. Nothing earth shattering, but still some good info for those that haven't come across these interviews yet.

EDIT: actually I semi-take that back, the full player progression through PvP part may make some people quite happy.

I agree with other posters, that has nothing to do with PvP, and that's from someone who typically avoids it. Balance is something sought after even in games that have little or no PvP, and it's usually because of people complaining that "He's way stronger than I am!"

It's that mentality where everyone wants to be the hero. If the mage is the one doing the main DPS, the warrior feels left behind. Then the Warrior can both DPS and Tank, and now the healer feels left behind. Now the healer can both Tank and Heal making him effectively invulnerable/a better Tank than the actual Tank, and everyone is pissed. And then the glass-cannons (thieves, assassins, whatever) are never really satisfied even if they can 1-hit people, because they themselves get 1-hit frequently.

You're right in some respects, balance can become an issue, because it's something made to please everyone and it's impossible to do so. Someone is always going to be upset about something.

That said, I don't think that's what has stolen the charm or stagnated MMO's. I think it's a plethora of other reasons.

Futility: When I struggled and finally got my Cleric up to level cap in Ragnarok Online only for them to release Rebirth classes! The ability to reincarnate and level up all over again starting from level 1, and required like twice the exp from a certain level. I had no desire to do that again, I wanted to sit and enjoy my aura and help other people and just play the damn game, go back and do things I missed, hunt MVPs, etc....but noes, time to do it all over again. That's when I realized how shallow games are, and that's probably when I started to become less impressed with them. It really can't be about something as arbitrary as numbers, because the developers can always add more and pretend it's 'content'.

Tanking isn't the same experience in every game. It's probably just something you have to get used to with Rift. I'm sure there's a way to do it, even if it isn't straightforward, but there aren't many people willing to be tanks these days so I say if you like being one, don't stop just because you had one bad experience. I don't play Rift so I don't know what their population of tanks is, but if it's like any other MMO it probably pales in comparison to mages and other DPS classes.

Are there no taunts and party control abilities for tanks in Rift? Might have to stretch across your three souls to get them but they've gotta be there somewhere. Anyway, keep at it, and I somehow doubt it was you alone that ruined the experience. Even if the tank is the one to gather/keep mobs, it's not as if everyone else exists only to throw fireballs at them. Everyone is supposed to play the part. People should come with a plethora of abilities from healing to crowd control that allow them to work as a cohesive unit. It everyone is just approaching it as tank n' spank, then maybe that's the problem. Not just your tanking.

There's already plenty of money sinks with the fast travel and you have to pay to be ressurected as well. I don't know what else will cost money but, if the original Guild Wars was any indication, the less gold sinks the better. You can honestly never have enough money in Guild Wars 1. You can be swimming in hundreds and hundreds of platinum, spend it in minutes and still not have even half of what you need. The compensated for making these things mostly cosmetic/fun, so you didn't NEED to have the money. It was more for prestige (pets, high tier hero armor, obsidian, black dye, etc).

Also, while it was only a demo (and I was a lowbie) I really didn't get much money from the things I killed. I popped on a higher level Charr very briefly and, while the monetary amount was higher (2 digits, sometimes 3 for harder things, as opposed to 1) it wasn't a huge amount of cash. And the money didn't drop 100% of the time either. IMO, it's far FAR too early to worry about moneysinks when most people have no clue how much disposable income they'll actually have.

Originally posted by Emeraq

If anyone here has posted even one reason that MMO's have failed, yet that person still plays an MMO, their post itself is fail.

Whut? People complain about life but are forced to live it. People complain about the price of healthy food as compared to fast food, but still eat it (if they care about their bodies enough). People complain about the Sony hack, but still play their PS3s.

Pointing out the flaws of something doesn't mean you've given up on it entirely. In fact, if you've truly given up on it, you don't give a damn about it, and thus it's not even worth posting in the first place.

When the whole point to a discussion forum is to 'discuss', the only truly fail post is the one discouraging discussion. In other words, yours.

Dunno, don't care. I want it, I need it. I'd want it even if everyone else decided they didn't. I like Guild Wars, I like Anet, I like their design philosophy and I love what they're doing with their game. Played the demo at PAX and had to give my turn to the guy behind me before I had a seizure from the nerdgasm.

The hype is irrelevant. People, both for and against, should give it a break. The game will speak for itself and, believe it or not, there are some that won't like it. I anticipate there are many that will, but it's impossible to please 100% of the population 100% of the time.

Originally posted by vesavius

Well, ignoring the unneeded sarcasm of above, I would say yes it is, but no more then Rift (for example).

It is still mostly quest based ofc, but the vast majority of them exist to accomadate the grind (most are basically killl lists) buyt saying that, I don't personally mind a bit of grind in my games, especially in a nice duo or group.

 

I also personally do not think Aion ever took a lot of time to level, but it seems much quicker now, though if you thought it took 'ages' before it still might not be fast enough for your tastes. Money is also more abundent, and the drops are a lot better.

 

 

As a side note though, it is interesting that people criticise Aion for grind because it is Korean, yet will play Rift, which has a very similar core play philosophy, without complaint because it is Western.

Rift doesn't have you grinding on gray monsters for quest items that drop 1 in 10 times, for 40 items total, that has to be completed 30 times for 30 medals, to be turned in for ONE PIECE OF AN ARMOR SET. Comparing Aion's grind to Rift's is ridiculous.

Level grind in Aion is all but gone. Gear grind, sadly, has gone nowhere. Drop rate is a bit better, but not enough to make crafting decent, competitive gear any less painful. Some people like this, some don't. Do with that info what you will.

ps - Rift is boring as hell, this post was not an invite to turn to that game instead >_>

Good. It's time to see all these hardcore bitc-er, 'players' will finally put their money where their mouths are. It's easy to complain about the lack of PvP when you don't actually have to do it. Now you have an outlet, a particularly brutal one, in the form of a game that has undergone much improving and patching and is probably one of the most beautiful available to date. Let's see how many will actually have the balls to hang and how many will run to the forums crying because they're getting ganked and can't accomplish anything.

Go. Frolick, decapitate, be merry!