Probably because you are reading it as me saying FPS players in an MMO is bad, which I am not.

There is no use to continue discussing this with me if you can't seem to understand what I'm writing.

We will just continue to go around in circles.

Let's just agree to disagree :)  And remain friendly with each other.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by UbahNecro

Have you ever Played an FPS game like Quake, Unreal Tournament, Doom, etc.?

It's pretty self-explanatory.

Alot of Lineage II players are hardcore FPS players.  Alot of them play games like COD4 etc.  It's their style, the game suits them with it's Linear Progression (relative to most other MMOs).

 

Yes I have played FPS games and RTS games and L2's point and click system is more closer to RTS games than FPS games.

You might need to clarify what you are intending to convey.

Hardcore FPS and RTS players are not allowed to play MMORPG's?  I guess all those playing WoW must be pure MMORPG players right? 

 

 

What clarrification is needed?  Why do you feel the need to ask rhetorical questions (I shouldn't answer them, since they aren't seriously in need of an answer).

I'm saying that the L2 community has attracted a large number of these players.  Playstyles are contagious.  When you have 1 successful player playing a game like a FPS, all the other players who want to be as successful will follow suit.

On top of that Lineage II's PvP system does not encourage diversified playstyles in Open/Seige PvP.  It is about killing the target as fast as possible.  They have made it too easy to kill people in short spans of time, and what countermeasures they have put in have done little to prevent that while allowing other classes to live basically forever (Saggitarius with Quiver of Holding and QHP/CP Pots).

The itemization and setups in the game are very "template".  There really aren't many options unless you like losing 90% of the matches you fight.

Characters and their skills progress extremely linearly and there isn't much diversity within archetypes.

There are alot of things, I just don't have the time to list it all and alot of it is fairly obvious.  Plus, the Olympics are on :)

Like I said, my clan was a top clan on the server, and I'd hardly classify myself as a casual player :)  Those are hardly factors in my reasoning.  Can you understand that?

I'm not whining to get my way (I have everything I want in game), I'm just giving my observations on the game itself.

Have you ever Played an FPS game like Quake, Unreal Tournament, Doom, etc.?

It's pretty self-explanatory.

Alot of Lineage II players are hardcore FPS players.  Alot of them play games like COD4 etc.  It's their style, the game suits them with it's Linear Progression (relative to most other MMOs).

Yep, that's what the game is like at the upper levels, and that's why everyone rushes through them.  It's hard to play at a casual pace and do anything other than solo 1/2 the time.  It is extremely hard to enjoy playing when you don't have buffs (which is why they are putting newbie buffs to level 62).

Vitality XP will only help those who play very casually, and they will still be outleveled by the more hardcore players due to sheer playtime alone.

I can outlevel my roomate in other games with Vitality/Rested XP systems (EQ2/WoW) even if I don't do any quests and just grind on mobs while he quests (usually the fastest way to level in those games) even when I leave my toon online 24/7 because the playtimes are much > the extra XP you get from those systems.

Unless LIneage II's Vitality System will be a much bigger XP bonus than those other games.

Originally posted by pimpdizzle

dude whine some more plz

ur the one crying about dieing, u do in every post u make lol

ive played since open beta and still find the game fun. idk maybe ur clan is baddies?

Please quote me where I whine about dying?

In a PvP MMO people really shouldn't die in 1-3 seconds.  It makes not not very PvP'ish.

Case in point?  Read the Age of Conan forums, where people are experiencing the "Power" of 1-2 shot on a constant basis.  Many of those players come from Lineage II (I know quite a few).

My accounts are cancelled.  So I have no clan (but they were a top clan on my server).  My problems don't stem from being low on the in-game food chain, they stem from the game's issues.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by UbahNecro

Cause the current playerbase in Lineage II has close to no idea what progression actually is.  They just think it's Character and Clan levels.

The game is good, even with all of its imbalances, but most of the people who play this game really don't know how to play through MMORPGs.  A large majority of them are FPS quasi-players and they play the game in that manner - which is sad.

 

I take issue with this given most of the people that are still playing this MMORPG like the old school appeal it has and are not newcomers to the MMORPG scene

You can take issue with whatever you please.

I am not a newcomer to the MMORPG genre, and I see most Lineage II players playing it like a first person shooter.

There are fraps on YouTube you can watch, as well as on FileFront/L2Blah.

WoW was fun for 2 weeks.

You are a delusional fanboi.

And what is the use of PvPing at a low level, all of the alts and twinks you will be fighting will have OE'd weapons and sometimes armor and they will kill you in 1-3 shots (Nuker/Dagger/Archer).

You obviously haven't tried to seige at the 6x levels (I have done this).  You obviously haven't done mass PvP at those level when the competition was easily 10 levels over you.

Maybe you will say to pick your battles, but rest assured that most clans with players those levels will refuse to PvP (saying they are "neutral") and let you go red on them - and then zerg you with a number of high level toons/friends in hopes that you will drop gear.

That's not PvP (none of that is).

Why don't they just look at the other incidents that I've sent in for the information?  I mean, these are the same bots, + more...

I don't need to lie on the internet, and certainly don't need to stretch the truth.

The game speaks for itself, it doesn't really need any fanbois.

The fact that the GMs actually have to ask for such trivial information in a game littered with bots is quite comical.  I mean, they are botting at Hot Springs Tents, and in several high traffic areas.  What about all the bots in the catacombs?  How hard is it for a GM to log in and run through some of these areas and ban the botters?  It is not hard to prove someone is botting in this video game.

People are actually not even afraid to admit they bot, even in Hero Shout (and yes I've reported some of those who have and gotten no results).

Good post.

In response to the poster above you:

"wow that dude makes the game sound aweful lol

ur going to die in a video game thats what happens, but you also kill people, sounds like someone got owned. "

It's hard to get owned when hardly anyone logs in on the server, and when they do they log in with a program.  I can level for hours at Hot Springs tents without an enemy coming to kill me.  So I don't see your point.

And who cries about dying.  That's what blessed resurrections are for, and of course half the playerbase in this game (or more) are compulsive BSOEers...

Yea, I got owned...

ON THAT NOTE:

If there is any group of people starting this game and actually want to start a clan that will actually progress through the game, level together, stay within range of each other, do some of the lower epic bosses, etc.  Please do PM me.  That would be fun, like, an actual MMO experience with a sense of progression.  I'll have no problem leveling up alt toons to help level up a clan or whatnot until a large portion of the members are in my level range.  I won't transfer my toons (would need name change on each to transfer again, which is a total of 240 bucks) until the clan seems stable and I sense actual dedication from the members though, and of course until they are near my level range (like, at least 72+ for a majority of them).  No use joining a low level clan on my main characters and then having a war where I can 1-2 shot most of the enemies, although most other players enjoy it ("10 DMG LAWLZ!!!1!!1!!").

Cause the current playerbase in Lineage II has close to no idea what progression actually is.  They just think it's Character and Clan levels.

The game is good, even with all of its imbalances, but most of the people who play this game really don't know how to play through MMORPGs.  A large majority of them are FPS quasi-players and they play the game in that manner - which is sad.

I would also like to add that another thing that is killing the MMO genre is the vast increase of system requirements as games are developed.  There are MMOs developed on DirectX 8.1 engines that look good enough, and the games developed on the DirectX 9.0x Engines are more than applicable, but game developers are pushing the envelopes WAY too much with the way they are developing their games.

When you develop games that require next generation gaming PC's, it discriminates against many MMO players because most of these players play games with the thought of investing months-years to them.  MMOs are not like console games, where you can release a FInal Fantasy for PS2 adn then release the next version for PS3.  Gamers who have been playing a choice game for 5+ years will likely not have the hardware to run a game like Vanguard or Age of Conan because they simply did not need that type of hardware to max the settings out in their older games.

Those who do, most likely play other types of games than their MMOs, like FPS games (Counter Strike, COD, etc.).  Personally, when I play MMOs in a "hardcore" way I don't have really all that much time to play anything else, to be honest.  Between school, having an acceptable Social Life, and the time investment/effort required by the game - I have to set priorities straight.

Alot of people who played EverQuest went to WoW instead of EverQuest II because their system ran WoW perfectly but they basically needed a new system to run EverQuest II.  I can [54-man] raid in EverQuest on my PC on max settings, but have to put EverQuest II on Very High performance to eliminate lag.  The newer games also seem more subsceptable to network lag (maybe it's just me, but it sure feels that way and I've played alot of MMOs) which means some people who live in areas where there is only 1 ISP available simply cannot play some MMOs without getting disconnected, lagging considerably, or playing with a very high ping unless they pay up the nose for a very fast internet connection from said ISP.  Who wants to pay 150-200 a month for internet service?  Mind as well buy a new car.

Leave the graphics and special effects to FPS players and consoles.  MMO players care more about content, gameplay, and storyline/lore.  Also, use or develop a graphics engine designed for MMOs and not FPS.  Just makes the game unnecessarily bloated and in most cases the game ends up with horrible performance and unrealistic system requirements.

As long as MMO developers are developing games for tomorrow's hardware and not yesterdays, they will continue to be outwitted by Blizzard and their games will continue to fail either at launch or in the long-run because this type of development does nothing but cause problems for the gaming community, and people play games for fun and not problems.

If a game doesn't run acceptably on systems that exceed the minimum system requirements, the system requirements need to be bumped up.  You cannot return 50% subscription games back to the store, and you are wasting people's money with sketchy marketing.

I think alot of these problems stem from the fact that MMO companies seem to be inheriting more and more players from the FPS market, and are catering to what those players like.  Unfortunately, what they like doesn't necessarily bode well for MMO games, because you need a very large varied playerbase for the game to thrive.  This only happens in games that most players can actually run on their machines.  Most people do not see a point in spending $1-2k for another machine to run games, when they can buy a PS3 and play Madden instead.

This is very apparent in games like Lineage II and Age of Conan, where MMO players complain about 1-2 shotting in the PvP games and FPS-type players tell them to L2P, STFU, and GTFO.

Hardcoreness is not measure in time investment or skill, but in effort.

MMOs used to be about Risk, Reward, and Effort - they no longer are.  World of Warcraft changed the MMO industry with its system and everyone is following suit.  That is why many games (EQ2, WoW, AoC, WAR) have somewhat similar mechanics and baby players through the content (while progressing their characters) almost identically.  It's all Quest-to-XP.  I can't speak for Vanguard, becuause I can't play it at an acceptable performance level.

But to get back to the answer.  Hardcoreness is measured in effort.  I feel it is literally impossible to actually be "hardcore" in more other MMOs.  They are different from other games like EverQuest, FFXI, LIneage II, etc. which actually required a bit of effort and only rewarded you for the applicable risks that you took ingame.  Now companies are just handing stuff out in MMOs, which makes them all boring and is burning out the MMO playerbase because too many of the games are too similar.

Well my computer gets 1-5 FPS with the tweaks to vgclient.ini and sysconfig.ini so I just uninstalled it, cancelled my subscription, and will save up to order a PS3.

MMOs are not worth the time and investment anymore, seeing as how every game forces you to upgrade your system but console games always run as expected.  Don't have to worry about the company lying about system requirements (My system exceeds the minimum system requirements).

Gladiator > Tyrant

Don't roll an Archer in Gracia.

If your system can run it, why not try it. It's a game. You may find it fun, and if it's fun then it's more than worth it - it serves its purpose.

I'm installing it right now, but I don't forsee myself playign Vanguard for more than 10 minutes.

That will be how long it will take before I realize my crappy system cannot handle this game.

What is really sad is that they are designing games for "Next Year's system" and don't realize that a huge majority of MMO players are people who cannot afford to replace basically their entire system to play a game.

I was looking at Age of Conan, and it's even worse IRT system requirements.

While I do think I will eventually get a new system, I think I've about given up on the MMORPG genre due to the forced hardware upgrades they've been advocating ever since the release of EverQuest: Planes of Power (when they updated the engine to support DX9 and broke half the systems that were running the game) and later EverQuest 2 (which lags horribly on a system that can play World of Warcraft at 30-40 FPS outdoors).

Doesn't seem worth my time to play a genre of games that forces you to upgrade your hardware to such a high degree (basically, buy a new system). It ceases to be fun and turns into a much larger investment than it's worth. I'm almost sure there is a conspiracy between the Hardware Vendors and MMO Developers to develop games that will not run well on most current hardware to force upgrade and thus increase revenues to those companies.

Game looks awesome, but I see myself cancelling tomorrow when it's done updating and I start it up :) Lol.

Goodbye MMORPG Genre. Was fun while it lasted (~7 years).
 

Whether or not you think I'm "bitter" will not change the fact that the OP will be practically useless in PvP until he or she gets to S Grade levels, and more realistically, 78+.  That will take him months = 1 year+ wiht "casual" playtime.

You are talking about level 40 as if it is some type of accomplishment in Lineage II, when people roll toons to level 40 and throw them away (i.e. delete them) continuously for academy points to level up a guld.  Getting to level 62 was easy enough without newbie buffs going that high, why should it really matter with the newbie buffs going that high.  Shaving a few days off the grind up to 62 adds little to the game, TBQH.  Most of the grind comes at levle 70+.

You will level up to 7x levels and be able to get quite a nice chunk of experience a day, and by the time you get to level 75 you will be relegated to 3-4 XP per hour on a fast XP class soloing wiht 1-2 OOP buffers.  In Gracia, mixxed parties will be disgouraged with the MOB Ultimate-Defense mechanics, and it was already bad before with the bad MP management and blurred class lines in the game.  Lineage II needs a PvE revamp, and they are not going about it in the right way, but the controls and mechanics in the game as so ingrained - and the game is so old - that the best path would simply be to just develop a new game.

I am not bitter, I am just someone who has played many MMOs and I have played Lineage II since Chronicle 5 (which made it "easier" with all the herbs, etc.).  Yes, I find it disheartening that I have to pay $45 a month to solo at an acceptable pace on my nuker in Lineage II.  I have never played anything but an offensive caster class in any MMO that I've played, so my choice to play a Nuker is more of an RP thing than "FoTM Syndrome" that many players have in these types of game.

Yes, the game needs more players.  Yes, it's pretty bad to give it a "bad review" when others are contemplating joining the "community".  No, it is not good to give it a good review just to get new players to play the game whenthe game has several glaring problems and imbalances that become extremely apparent and grief you after you have dedicated countless hours in leveling you character up.

The good thing that Lineage II has going for is IS the time investment required to leve/advance a toon in that game.  By the time you have had enough of it, it's almost too hard to quit because of the time you have invested in the game, and in the case of some people, the money also. 

What is the benefit to lying on the Internet? None?

I certainly have nothing against the game. With better management, Lineage II would have been a MUCH better game with a HUGE population. But because NCSoft turns a blind eye to glaring imbalances and rampant cheating, many of the players that actually care about that kind of stuff have moved on.

That is why they are finally offering Server transfers and did not wait until long after to began merging servers.

If you take that as a sign of a game that is booming and so awesome that people can't resist playing it, then good for you.

But believe me when I say that you will see more bots and fields littered with the arrows they leave behind (which lag you to crap) than real players on almost any server in the game except maybe the recently merged ones. And after a few months things will be about the same as the other (non-merged) servers once the server power is established cause we all know how much gear/levels and time/dedication to camp Olympiad means in this game.

If the OP wants a trial key, I can give him one (PM Me on these boards). I just got one wiht a time card I brought yesterday. Better yet, hell, I'll let you log in my account and get 2 shot on my level 76 a few times to see it first hand if a few people can vouch for you trustworthiness and legitimacy :)

I have no reason to lie on the internet. 

EDIT: Diamedes - I have sent you a 14-day Trial Key in PM. Enjoy Lineage II.
 

Sovrath,

Yes, I am very dedicated. Equipment coming out of my fingertips? That, I don't know about.

Getting to the 60s is hardly an accomplishment in Lineage II, at least form game balance and progression of your toon standpoint. A level 6x toon is still 1 shot to most of the toons you will see at a castle seige, the DDs and nukers at least. At level 75 (almost 76), I am routinely 1-3 shot by daggers, Archers, and nukers at a seige. This usually happens in less than 3 seconds since they attack fast, cast fast, and crit hard when it happens.

The Vitality System is copied directly from EQ2 (even down to the name) and it will be of dubious benefit to any gamer who has more than casual amounts of time to play this game. Those that can only play a few hours a day (like 2-3 hours a day) will take so long to reach a factorable level that they are almost an after-thought of most high level players and clans (meaning they won't be factors for many months-years with those playtimes, if playing legitimately). Gear costs have never really been a problem for a networking player who has a good guild. I joined a guild when I started in C5 at level 6 and they were more than happy to supply me with No Grade, D Grade and C Grade gear and weapons - all of that is very cheap. The addition of B Grade on the traders is indeed a benefit, but A Grade is not there and with the price of A Grade, you probably don't want to waste 10M+ buying trader gear anyways. You can do level 52-62 in a little over a week with somewhat casual playtimes if you level in the right places.

NCSoft is also putting in measures to slow down the leveling of fast-leveling classes in the lower levels. In addition to that, NCSoft has put in measures to speed up the leveling of characters in the 76-79 level ranges. This means that while a low level toon will arguably progress slower than they used to (especially ranged classes, in Gracia), toons in the 76-79 level ranges now progress faster in those levels since the Hellbound update. This does nothing but create a larger level rift causing much more imbalance at the end-game levels. Levels mean way too much in Lineage II, and for an FFA PvP game that is bad.

Grouping in Lineage II is hard and often slower than soloing for many/most classes, especially if they have buffers.

The argument about buffers is a very legit argument. You can ask any serious player in this game and they will say "Why play Class XXX if you don't have YYY, ZZZ, XYZ Buffers? Seems like a waste of time to me." I have played with and without buffers, the difference in XP speed is on an astronomical scale. Even 1 recharge for a nuker can pretty much double its XP speed, same for an Archer or DD with just a Prophet. Playing without your own boxxed Buffer is indeed a waste of time, and the extra money you spend on the subscriptions, you save in he long run becasue you get to end-game/factor levels faster and can just cancel their subscriptions if you please, anyways.

Having those buffers is important because the goal in Lineage II is to level as fast as possible. Going leisurely by is fun, but when you want to actually get involved in what this game is based around, PvP, you will feel the detriment of going so slow when you've had the choice to progress slow or fast. Necros who Anchor you with 100% Land Rate. Nukers who nuke you for 1300+ damage after a Surrender/Gloom because they are a higher level than you. Archers who stun you with near 100% landrate and kill you before the stun wears off. Gladiators and daggers who can kill you by simply dashing in and spamming 1-3 skills. BDs who rush in, UD, whip out a bow and just bow you down. All of that is very real.

If the OP likes PvE games, then he should seriously consider playing one of the more PvE saavy MMOs.

And no, my statement about legit players being the laughing stock of the server is not an overstatement. While you may not agree or like the statements of those players who post on L2Blah, you cannot deny the fact that they are playing this game along with their guildies and illegitimacy is very much rampant in this game.

Trust me when I say that life was not fun as a nuker weilding a Spiritual Eye +0 at level 70. I have 2 buffers because there is simply no way I could level without Zerk 2, Acumen 3, Empower 3, and Recharges at 70+. I don't think I'd be able to hack leveling off of herbs at that level since it is very impractical to run from mob to mob. Farm adena and then sacrifice adena to the drop thieves while leveling by waiting until after the buffround/play session to pickup. It's worth it in the end.

I was going at a steady pace (to avoid burnout) of 10% a day in level 75 and by the time I got to 66% I decided to just cancel my accounts because more and more bot groups were appearing at my spot and after about 150 petitions and 5+ online petitions (on the support site) as well as a couple of calls to NCSoft (yes, I went there/taht far) nothing was being done about it.

It is not worth my time to play a game like that (this is MY OPINION), especially for the dry PvE aspects of this game, when there are so many games that implement that side of gameplay much better.

On the flip side, I do understand why he MAY be looking at Lineage II for the PvE aspects. So many games these days are copying the WoW/EQ2 way of character progression. All you do is quest for XP, and it gets boring. For that reason, I am looking at a 1-2 year break from MMORGS. The market is saturated with too many crappy MMOs and I feel us serious players need to just give it time to stabalize it self and hopefully something that is less grindy than L2, more balanced than L2/AoC, less questy than WoW/EQ2, and more modern than EQ1 comes out.
 

There is plenty of PVP, you will mostly see it at the higher (70+) levels however.

That's either a lie, or an intentionally vague and misleading statement. Up until you character is ~level 78, there is next to no PvP. All clans that aren't on top are usually trying as hard as they can to stay "Neutral". However, due to the kind of audience that these types of games (FFA PvP) attract, greedy groups of players will always be drawn to take a side, especially when they need help in a war, and you will soon have hoards of 78-79+ players showing up at you Castle/Fortress Seiges and PvPs to 2-3 shot you marginally geared guys 3-5+ levels below them. It's how the game works.

Alot of people who play Lineage II call this politics, but there is very little politicing going on in this game. It's all about massaging your e-peen.

Sieges can be fun if both sides are serious and well-matched. Having been in clans and won (and lost) castles, i can tell you that the really big ones are a blast. And a good way to delevel your character.

You can buy scrolls to not lose XP on a seige ground. Other than that, I agree about being evenly matched. However, there is one caveat. Whichever side has the most level 8x Overlords will most likely win in the end, because they can spam Clan UDs. Most large alliances are condensing into 1 clan, so you have a whole clan of players who cannot be damaged for 30 seconds attacking you, and you are out of clan UDs (if you even have any). If no clan has them, then it's a good fight. Fusion Nukes and Seal of Limits is also retarded.

Castle Seiges are pretty much strictly end-game material now, because the top clan will hold Aden and everyone else that is of a high level but not strong enough to beat them will be scavaging for whatever they can get. That includes useless castles like Gludio and Innadril. They will take whatever they can, and in any quantities they can take it. Unless you level up really fast and join one of these clans, be prepared for many months of primarily solo play - and yes, it's boring as hell due to the nature of Lineage II PvE - which is probably unlike most other games that you've played :)

40+ it depends more on what kind of class you choose...ranged attackers (archer / nuker), daggers, summoners are more solo oriented. The rest are more group oriented, but w/ the newbie buffs going up to 62 now, and with the herbs that drop (since C5 or something like that) pretty much anyone can solo, though the efficiency varies. Many people make a second account and drag a prophet or SE around with them for buffs.

1-62 can be accomplished in ~3 weeks with boxxed buffers. To level fast in the 7x levels where you get no newbie buffs, and dropped herbs really are rather more of a pain than a blessing especially for range classes; you need at least 2 buffers. That's for pretty much every archetype except EE or Bishop who can rift on Clan Hall/Fortress/Castle Buffs for good XP Gain and give themselves some buffs. Melee/DD Classes need a Prophet and a BD, and Caster/Nuker classes need an SE and an EE. That is, if you don't have friends who play/subbed those classes (goodluck finding a live SE, though).

I play a Nuker and I have two buffers. $45 a month. I know people who have 3-4 buffers (Prophet, Blade Dancer, Elder, Shillen Elder) for their nukers, and their XP speeds put mine to shame as a result.

There is a ton of PVE content, an assload of raid bosses, and plenty of group dungeons. I can easily think of at least 2 dozen from 50 onward. A group is nine people, which sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that a good party will fill at least 4 of those with buffer classes as buffs are absolutely essential in this game, much more so than anything else i've played.

This game has very little PvE content. There is zones to kill mobs in, but "content" well, you're taking it quite literally there and I like to give it a looser definition. You kill mobs, you kill mobs basically the same way you've been killing mobs from level 1, for months and months. And that's about it. Epic Raids are badly designed and balanced, some many classes aren't even allowed on some epic raids because they are useless and the bosses have certain mechanics that spawn more or more powerful minions when the number of people in the boss' area grows. PvE is badly implemented in Lineage II. If they ever do Lineage II, it should be the first thing that gets a HUGE amount of attention. Leveling in Lineage II not only takes long, but it's extremely repetetive and monotanous. The game is not "hard", it just bores you so much that you find it "hard to log into it" anymore.

How many other games have you played? I'm pretty sure EQ1, WoW, and EQ2 have alot more PvE content than Lineage II, and their content is much more varied which causes it not to become monotanous and boring. NCSoft should have put more thought into their PvE system/content. EverQuest was out years before Lineage II so I don't know how they could have not taken that tip. After all, EverQuest was the first commercially successful MMO, so they must have done something right.

So, you can level how you want depending on what class you pick and what you like to do. The game is a grind, but CT2 reduces the xp grind and MASSIVELY reduces the adena grind, at least till 52. Anyone contemplating picking up the game should absolutely give it a shot when CT2 launches this upcoming tuesday.

I wouldn't waste my money on Lineage II. But then again, I just did. I just reactivated my 3 accounts and logged in, then logged out and deactivated them.

Lineage II is the type of game that requires a factorable population outside of he top 2 clans on the server to be "fun". NCSoft was basically given a moral choice between real players and bots, and they chose the bots.

Now, being legit in Lineage II equates to being the laughing stock of the server.

If you are looking for a game that demands high RL Time and Monetary investments, with very few changes to group and the requirement of multiple accounts to solo at a decent pace - Lineage II is the game for you.

If you want an MMO that is fun with good PvE and raid content, innovative design choices, and customer service who are willing to enforce their EULA, then Lineage II should probably be the last game on your list.

Lastly, their client is full of bugs, half of which they haven't even bothered to try to fix even after all these years.

I will say that I am sort of desperately looking for a new MMO to play, and I was strongly considering Age of Conan on a PvE server (hold your opinions), but I think I will look elsewhere.

I have been following the official forums since launch date (non-subscribers can view them, but not post) and it seems that FunCom has absolutely no idea what they are doing.

But I was rather persistent on trying it out, so I asked a guildie from Lineage II to give me a Buddy Key, only to find out that I have to pay 2.99 to download it from FunCom.

No, I don't do torrents.

This is the first time I've seen a game developer actually ask for money to download a game to "trial" it.  It is also quite rude when you consider that going from trial to subscription is not just giving them your CC number.  You have to actually buy the game to get a subscription, on top of paying them 2.99 to download the client to trial it to see if you even want to buy the game.  It seems alot of people on the official forums are ignorant of the fact that you can't circumvent the costs of the game by getting a buddy key to avoid paying 49.99 for it - you still have to pay 49.99 for the game if you want to keep playing after the trial is over.

They also seem ignorant of the fact that alot of people who move games, even if they move with other people, are geographically distributed in a way that makes P2P transfers slow, or mail transfers unthinkable.  I have friends in Norway, and I live in the US.  Why would I bother having them mail me a AoC CD, and why should I bother trying to download something from their computer when the transfer rate will be extremely abysmal.  I don't do Torrent downloads or download from obscure sites for security reasons, I've been ganked in the pass with Trojans and Viruses.

So instead of going against my Moral Judgement, I am just going to download EQ2.  After all, I get a free "Buddy Pass" from an EQ2 player, with a full free month of play, and when I subscribe I get the game and every expansion for free on top of other goodies.

2.99 for a client download is shady, and how expensive it actually is has nothing to do with it.  I just can't see going against my moral judgement and bending over while paying 2.99 for a client download to try a game I may not even buy in the end.

But I guess it's for the best.  Probably saved me alot of time in the end, anyways.

Sorry, just had to Rant a little.