Originally posted by Axxar

Loads of players have wanted Pandarens to be playable since vanilla. I suspect this will be a positive thing for the game overall.

yeah, as usual it is mostly people who don´t play wow that ´hate´ the panda race.  Adding the monk class and the pve scenerios will be cool.

In a way it is similar to Might and Magic, and what they did with Heroes of Might and Magic. Same name, two completely different games.

I played most of the Ultima series and UO for about 5 years.   From what I have experienced, there is almost nothing in the game that resembles Ultima or UO.  They name their cathedral ´trinsic chapel´ but that is about it.  The very endgame seems to revolve around having 8 cities near shrines.. but that is months until it even enters gameplay..  There are also moongates on the map, but they don´t work.  There are no NPC named cities and no NPCs at all other than monsters.

But really, the ultima series, and even UO (prime) is so many years ago that the IP has very little value now.

I am enjoying it.  Obviously very different than most MMORPGs..   But in a way, it feels a lot like EVE because you can queue stuff and not play for awhile and still advance.

It is free, but VERY pay2win, but it appears very few people actually pay.  I play on a newer world, and despite being new to the game, I am in the top 10 out of probably a thousand active players.  The guys ahead of me are not very far ahead, so it is obvious nobody paid anything yet.  But looking at the store, I could have a huge lead on the entire world with just $20.

If you played RTS games a lot, you will pick up on it fast, the same sort of decisions have to be made.  Some slight differences like feeding your troops being very easy.   There is absolutely no visualization of your troops or combat, which is kinda boring.  You send your army, 1 second after they arrive at the target, you get a report of how the fight went, and then the troops return.

Definitely take the ´recommended´ server as it will put you on the newest server and continent and you will be able to be competitive.

I can almost promise you that the ´open beta´ will keep slipping further and further back until it is about 2 weeks before launch and is limited to the first few hours of actual gameplay.....ah... I remember you well Tortege.   Funcom is absolutely not going to have any type of real open beta.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

I think AV are just being coy about the server wipe. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, they are saying: "It all depends on what the meaning of 'wipe' is".

 

AV has to get rid of the characters in current DF who have massive skillpoint pools built up. If they "nerf" these characters by stripping their skillpoints, there will be a massive outcry, and many potential lost subs.

 

So they will launch a "brand new" DF2, where everyone has to start from scratch with brand new characters. That way, they can say there was no wipe, because it's not the same game !

They will do a quick money grab.  They will launch DF2 which will basically be DF with a few little changes.  They will call it a ´new game´and will force you to pay for it, then after 2-3 months they will állow´ you to port your old characters onto the new one (again, for a fee).    A month after that happens, everything will be back exactly the way it is now on DF, but you will have bought a second game and paid for your character to move.

Just to be clear.. you will pay them for a fresh server.. then you will pay them again to pollute it with all your macro´d and maxed characters.

Same type of scam they ran when they launched NA servers... but there are suckers who will fall for it again.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Unlight

I'm going to say they'll change the model approximately six months after release.  The fact that it will be going toe-to-toe with heavyweights like SWTOR and GW2 is going to affect their sales dramatically.  Coupled with an abysmal launch, they're going to have real trouble keeping it together.  I'm only speculating on the launch.  They could surprise me, but my confidence in FC being able to pull it off is pretty much nil.  But it's the competition that will be the deciding factor, and it's going to be pretty damned stiff. 

If they'd managed to release last year when the only thing they had to worry about was Rift or DCUO, they would have been in a much better position to overcome a poor launch and generate some ongoing fan support before the juggernauts weighed in.  They won't have that luxury next year.  I think they'll try to hold on as long as they can and will end up switching over, the following January.

I'm with you on this one. 6 months at the highest and I am not not so confident of Funcom having the intention of delivering a polished product intended to last a "lifetime" either.

Normally Funcom would get off on a good start due to their infamous hype machine but they will launch in shark infested waters this time: Skyrim, D3, GW2, Swtor and who knows what else, are all highly anticipated AAA releases in our neck of the gaming woods. And neither of those is sub based with a cash shop.

The big thing about AOC was that it re-enforeced the AO bad launch.  In the run-up to AOC, a lot of people were saying that surely Funcom learned something from the AO launch, but in my opinion, the AOC launch was not only bad from a technical standpoints (lots of bugs and system issues), but the outright lying done by Funcom regarding content, and the underhanded way they tricked the media and beta testers (only allowing us to play Tortage, the only part of the game that was actually finished).

There is not another game being launched that screams ´beware!!  wait a month after launch to purchase until you have heard actual player feedback´..  So you have a lot of people going to try more trusted publishers like Bioware, and then you have a lot of people like myself who are interested in this game, but have NO chance of purchasing it at least until a month after launch...

I think it will go free2play as soon as they have content ready to be added to the store that a lot of people will want to play... I am guessing 6-12 months... not because subscribers will be high until that time, but simply because I don´t think they will have content ready for the store until then.

Originally posted by lathaan

will be the same model as inAoC i guess, and that works splendid.

Just to point out, in AOC you can buy epic pvp gear from the cash shop.   It will start out as clothing and haircuts, then as the games falters it will become exp and power boost potions.. finally it will be endgame gear.   Like they said though, it is nice that they can launch the game with the interface in place to go free2play a few months after launch..

err.. you might want to hold off buying those 12 month subscription plans with this one.

Besides EVE and UO, there are no real sandbox games.   It is a term that is thrown around without a lot of people having ever experienced it.   The best way to explain it is like this

1.  In WOW, when you create a character, there is an NPC standing in front of you giving you a quest to go do something.  You do that, and get another quest.. you do that and get another quest... and that continues for the next 85 levels.  Each quest is designed to be a little challenging for your character.  

2.  In a sandbox game, when you create a character, you might get a little tutorial on the interface and basics, but after you aren´t really ´directed´anywhere.

There are two problems with the view of most people on this forum.  The first is that while UO was successful back 10 years ago as a sandbox, gamers have matured since then and want actual content, not just a world filled with random monsters that you hunt for no real reason.

The other things is that games like WOW, which are considered the ULTIMATE themepark games.. can be played as a sandbox.  Simply don´t take any quests.  Run off into the wilderness and kill whatever mob you want.   You can kill 10 boars because someone asked you to bring them 10 boar livers, or you can kill 10 boars just to kill 10 boars.

The real difference is that themeparks will direct you to mobs that are appropriate for your current power level.  In sandboxes like UO,  5 minutes after creating a character I could be charging in and getting owned by dragons.

The word ´sandbox´ right now is used as kinda an ´anti-wow´ thing.  Basically a lot of people hate WOW because of it´s success, so if wow is considered a themepark, then those people long for a sandbox game.

The fact is, most MMO players today would be bored to death playing a sandbox game like UO was 10 years ago.  It was cool at the time because it was all we had.

I hope what Rift has taught every devleoper out there is that you can´t release a half-finished piece of garbage at launch and expect to fix it later... ala AOC.   Rift is a quality, polished game.   It is a viable alternative for those who love wow´s gameplay, but hate wow because of it´s success.  I am happy for it´s success becuase I think for the next few years, it shows other developers how to properly release a game.

It really depends on your playstyle.  If you are just starting now, any advice about endgame pvp is a moot point because it will be changed before you get there.  Classes and specs are very micromanaged and well balanced, the perceived ´best classes´ usually aren´t, and if they are, they aren´t for long.

level 10-20 are a lot of fun now and it only takes a few hours to get to level 10..  just try a few different ones.

This is just a design decision the devs had to make, similar to every other MMO.  There is no solution that doesn´t present other, bigger problems.  The Rift devs learned from early WOW.

In early wow, there were several quests, and especially the last quest of a chain that required a group.  After the first months of launch, this became a problem because it was difficult to find enough people to group for the quest... a lot of people would level past the climatic end to a quest chain, and then have to go back and finish it solo just to see the conclusion, at which time they outgeared the rewards and got no experience for it.

The other solution is to just not make quest chains.. just have lots of stand-alone quests....this is boring.  These are MMORPGs, while the emphasis has faded from the RP part of it, the devs still like to tell a story now and then.   That becomes very difficult when you can´t chain quests together.

But in the end,  the content is soloable.  Just join a group and chat, but quest wherever you are.

Originally posted by Larry2298

I think you need to be least post graduate major in missile science to crafting in DDO. I have never seen so poor crafting like this before. Bashing / shield attacking ....

 

 

 

DDO in general is complicated, but crafting isn´t that difficult.  You deconstruct your magic loot,  then you create a prefix and  a suffix shard, then you add the shard onto a blank item.  Very similar to enchanting in WOW

You should probably state what level your character is...  because artis are a bit OP up until lvl 12, but after that point, they aren´t anything great...  Their OPness at early lvls revolves around them getting a repeater very early.

As far as traps..  they do NOT get evasion, which means there are a lot of traps in the game that will give them trouble.

geez, if I zoom in close enough, I can actually see my wow character.

yeah, the OP is completely off base.   There are very distinct classes in DDO... the secret is to just have one of each class on different servers.  Once you get to about lvl 8 (which requires not repeating very many quests at all) you will have 500 favor on every server... that is a HUGE amount of free TP. 

I have 1 level 9 character, and lvl 5 characters on every server and i have already bought Catacombs,  Sharn Syndicate, Seal of STK, Tanglefoot and VoT (high level one).  Once I get all of them to 500 favor (lvl 8ish) I will be able to buy Gianthold and maybe another smaller pack.   That is plenty of content to get to lvl 20... and probably by the time I get to 1000 favor on each server (no idea what level that happens at), I will be able to buy another 2 or 3 packs for free for the 18-20 range.

The devs almost ask you to do this by not giving you a shared bank for free, and by not allowing you to mail BOA gear.  There really is very little practical reason to put two characters on the same server.

What you are basically describing (or complaining about) is a mainstay in every mmorpg.   The problem is very simple, it takes developers MUCH longer to implement content than it does players to go through it.   The reason this is a problem is one word... progresssion.   Players ALWAYS need to feel like they are progressing their character... as backward as it seems,  players do not want to ever have a ´finished´character.   So now you have these two conflicting things.

How does every dev solve it?  By forcing repetition and incremental progression.    They have two choices ( but can use both at the same time)..  You can have random progression, or you can have incremental progression.   No matter what, you are going to have to run that dungeon 20 times for an upgrade.. so either you have a 5% chance to get the item, or you always get 1/20 of the item (or points, or crafting material etc).

Even a game like WOW, with a billion dollars and a huge budget forces players to repeat content ad nauseum.  Not only do i have to run the same endgame dungeons every day for the past 8 months for ´points´.. the devs even limit how many  ´points´ I can earn per week so that I can never own everything I want.

I personally think TR was an absolutely brilliant thing to do.  Many players, like myself, enjoy questing and leveling, but don´t enjoy endgame grinding.  Allowing me to ´reset with a bonus´ is awesome... and Completionist is like the ultimate carrot.

Until there are super-devs or programs that can create content on the fly, we are stuck with repetition and incremental progression.  Crafting seems like a problem for you.. but in reality, the devs could just remove crafting materials and use ´points´like WOW does.. it still is the same thing... you are running the same content multiple times trying to collect something

Originally posted by LuckyDucky

Originally posted by Blutmaul

They should really take the time to make a good economy/crafting system, even it is only bcs AoC is the testing ground for TSW.
The traditional "Bar-Gazing" crafting type will not revive it!

Something modern, something that makes any crafter hook, that is as rewarding to a crafter as combat is to the adventurer, not only moneywise but also from the fun of gameplay could do AoC and also TSW wonders.

 

The new crafting system will be a huge addition to the game if it is done right. Like someone else said, crafting is one of the pillars of an MMO, it really isn't some optional feature that a good MMO may or may not have. Good crafting is essential to any MMO that wants a vibrant economy.

Honestly, this is what is wrong with AOC to begin with.   They brag about something, then deliver crap, then promise to fix it later.   It is similar to pvp.  They bragged about how great the PvP was going to be, then launched with nothing, then added garbage, then promised to fix it... and even in the new letter from the game director, they are still talking about trying to ´fix´ pvp seiges.

AOC always had some of the best screenshots, and some of the best music.  The problem is at launch, and after every upgrade, it takes months for them to make it playable.   This is a game, not a test for my video card.

I really enjoyed Earth and Beyond.  It actually felt like you were flying through space.. you could go out and explore eveywhere (unlike EVE which has boring geography).    I never made it to endgame in EnB, but just the exploration, combat and ship physics were done really well.  I also loved the way my ship looked.

Originally posted by aSynchro

TSW doesn't target at all the same players than WoW, SWTOR (or even GW2). They could very well do like CCP with Eve Online: find 100k-500k loyal fans of spooky/conspiracy game that would happily pay the subscriptions for years.

EVE started out very very very small.   It is why early members are so loyal, those first 10,000 players were basically devs, QA and marketing.  TSW is much more of a normal launch.. testers under NDA and an actual launch date... they also spent a great deal of money developing the game.  Eve was more like a garage project gone viral.

I think if Funcom had changed their company name, TSW might have a chance.  But there are just so many people who are not going to give it a chance because of Funcom.  it is going to launch with very low subs, which means they won´t have a dev team large enough to fix what is broken or add new content.  Games can survive with 100k players, but you aren´t going to have enough devs and qa to be anything but life support compared to most MMOs.