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All Posts by Mackaveli44

All Posts by Mackaveli44

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Originally posted by rockin_ufo

NOTE: This is not a hardcore versus casual thread. 

 

When people bring up new ways MMOs should grasp an audience, especially recently with EQNext, a lot of people will jump up and down with their hand raised and when asked to give an answer..bring back the feel of Everquest. The first 3D MMO ever made..yet never been expanded on it's original formula outside of maybe Vanguard. So that brings me to my question..was EQ just nostalgia or was it really that good of an MMO? Possibly a combination? Are the mechanics/gamestyle just too outdated for modern gamers? I'm curious! 

My personal opinion, [mod edit] I've realized while some things are indeed dated: I've seeing stuff that I don't ever see in any MMO, even 15 years later. Some modernization on small things are needed (command prompts for everything, really?), but all in all the game is still a solid experience even in it's skeleton. I don't see myself dropping it down anytime soon. 

So yeah, discuss!

EQ IS the king of all MMO's even more so then UO.  3D MMO's that is. Its the game that started it all.  The entire aspect of the game still beats many MMO's, if not all MMO''s currently out.  

No instancing

Massive open zones

None of this BS "bind" gear

GROUP oriented and it was difficult.

You actually grew as a server, you knew a lot of players by their names vs nowadays you probably cant remember the last name of a person you grouped with because of the cross-server BS.

Actual player trading and communication.

You actually feel like you accomplished something or had that sense of satisfaction/accomplishment when you got a new item unlike today gear is just thrown to you with ease so you dont get that feeling anymore.

I could go on and on and on.  To this very day, it still beats a ton, if not all MMOs out in a lot of things.  If you werent there when it was in its prime you surely missed out on the greatest MMO ever created.

The gameplay feature I miss the most, well not the most but one that sticks out in my mind is that in EQ, you could attack pretty much anything, basically how Skyrim is.  You could go into a city and attack guards, class trainers, the head honchos of the city, and they actually dropped stuff.  They were challening as well.  It gave it a true open epic feeling to it.  Now games your basically restricted to only attacking monsters in the world.  Very linear gameplay now :(  Man I miss EQ... I truly do.

Originally posted by PerfArt

It's deck-building. They tested a lot of different numbers for the hotbar loadouts. Six per bar balanced best with the number and variety of skills every character will have available to them. Has nothing to do with consoles. Twelve skills lets you build a role from tons of options and limits them to a playtested amount in order to not have everyone running around spamming every skill they know. It's deck building, role creation, and a focus on resource-based, dynamic combat. It's awesome.

With this system you can create a character who can be many different things, but not everything at once.

It's really not like other mmorpgs.

This right here alone has me very excited to play the game.  You can try so many different builds youll be unique unless people go for cookie cutter builds.  But in this game, you can be creative with your character vs other games where you pick a set class and thats your toon. 

 

Your right , its not like other mmorpgs.

Its inevitable to face zerg type gameplay in a PvP game.   Its apart of war.  Great example, look at the military.  We dont send 1 guy over to a country, we send an entire force when going into a war.  Its just the nature of it and itll happen in games as well.  Its smart if you think about it.  Strength in numbers.
Originally posted by Arkade99
Originally posted by FelixMajor
 

When you go to the dealer and want to buy a new car, you are given a thorough test drive and walk through of all its features and accommodations.  Is paying for the car to try it out first outrageous?  Yes.  Is paying for a meal at a restaurant before eating it outrageous? Yes.  Is paying for a video game before trying it outrageous?  I'll let you finish that sentence.

Out of curiosity, how often do you go into a restaurant, order food, and then not pay for it?

You don't know that there won't be an open beta. You don't know that there won't be a free trial. And in either case, what does the NDA have to do with it? Lifting the NDA won't enable you to try the game. If all you are after are other peoples' opinions, videos and screenshots, you can get that at any time after the NDA is lifted. What's the difference if it is now or the day before launch?

Thats 1 of the main issues I have with the newer generation of gamers is that they put so much stock in screenshots, videos, and the largest thing - other peoples opinions when all it is is their own opinion instead of playing the game and forming their own.  You wont know if you like something unless you try it as that goes with anything in life.  How do you know you wont like ketchup if you dont try it or sausage, or whatever.  You have to try it and form your own opinion vs listening to what someone else has to say.  Take it for what its worth, an opinion but dont let it sway you in one way or another on purchasing/playing a game.

You see this is any games chat channels now.  "Whats the best tank" "whats the best healer" "whats the best this"  "whats the best that"....Its sad.  Really sad.  People put more stock in someone elses view and opinion then forming their own.

Or maybe unlike all other developers(minus blizzard), they arent going to let the public banter and BS affect their decisions on whether to release info or not.  I commend them for that if thats what theyre doing.   Just because we buy the product, doesnt mean are entitled to anything as many people think.  People have a sense of an entitlement in these games and its sad.
Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Roguewiz
Other than the obvious "beta isn't over comment", it hasn't been lifted because frankly, they have a lot of competition coming out this year.  Better to leave them little opportunity to "copy" stuff than to release too much info too quickly.

They have a massive public beta, even if it is closed. Don't you think every major studio that wants to know what they're doing has a person in the beta? I do. IP protection only works if you keep the general public out.

Don't answer this here (in keeping with their NDA), but ask yourself what would they have to hide and protect that any other major studio doesn't already know about or how to do? Everything I've seen that they've officially posted indicate there isn't much new secret tech going on here.

So why would they keep an NDA in place at this point. Unless something is very wrong that they need to sort out first, I think they will drop the NDA soon.

 

Not sure abut the last part, but a game that is promising to be next gen and hyping itself to high heaven...EQ next has update after update after update. They dont look to be 'hiding' anything. Now granted there isnt any testing going on but theyre surely giving peopel alot to look at.

 

EQ landmarks will have some testing starting fairly soon, will be intrsting what sort of NA they have there. But their scehdule is very aggressive also. You can also almost map it out if you look at their 'founder pack' disclosures and the dates they say items will be delivered both for alpha as ell as beta testing 'perks'.

 

Now whether they keep that timetable remains to be seen. But it looks to me like they ave a game that is ready to be 'paid' for already because theyre selling pre release packets which give beta access. Or it is just semantics and THEIR alpha test is actually what some would call a beta test, and their second phase of beta is basically an open beta, but they want people to pay something to get into it. So its semantics all the way around.

 

I have never seen a person say anywhere that ESO has some new secret thing that has never been seen before. Not even the most rampant fanbois can say that. So at this stage, closed beta or not the NDA is a moot almost useless block that is hindering critics and fans alike from giving their unfiltered reviews/opinions on.

EQNext isnt hiding anything because there isnt anything to hide.  The game is still at LEAST a couple years off if Landmark hasnt even released yet and its an ALPHA, at least another year for a full official release of Landmark and then a year or two ater that for EQnext.  Your argument is irrelevant.  Im excited as anyone else for EQNext but the game is still faaaaaaaaaaaar away so of course theyre not going to be hiding anything.  Like I said, there isnt anything to hide.

Originally posted by SoulTrapOnSelf
With less than 80 days until release one starts to wonder indeed. I think Zenimax knows they will sell the game easily, and if offered, many will be willing to pay for a 3-month sub from the get go. They know many Skyrim players and TES fans will buy the game and pre-order if possible. So why bother lifting the NDA? Do you think the NDA will be lifted at all? Considering all the negativity in so many media outlets, Zenimax may not lift the NDA. What do you think?

I do not understand why there's so much drama over a developer team continuing to uphold their NDA.  Whats the point of getting worried about it?  They have their reasons so why let it affect you?  It shoudnt.  If the game is fun to you that should be all that matters,  play it.  If it isnt fun then play something that IS fun to you.  Simple as that.

 

I could careless why they havent removed the NDA.  On the contrary there are still more betas in the works so maybe thats why?  They are testing a lot of stuff.  For starters Cyrodiil is a massive undertaking if you have seen any map of it.  They have a lot of stuff in the game, at least on paper.  From the looks of it possibly more then any MMO ever released in  terms of content at launch. 

Originally posted by colddog04
My problem isn't that it has no hype or whatever, it's that they aren't releasing gameplay footage and details about major systems for people that can't get into beta. Even in beta there are major systems (like crafting) that are unplayable.

It doesnt need all the crazy hype that 99% of other games had and failed.  It has the name, that alone will bring in mass numbers.

I have 1 primary concern thus far.  Is the game going to be MMO like where there will be a lot of mobs around in the wild to go and hunt? Like camps of mobs, etc that you can kill for loot/xp farming or will it be forced questing with hardly any mobs in the world to hunt how it is in Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind where questing is your means of xp/skill points?  I do NOT want to be forced into 1 route of xp and that is questing.  I enjoy questing like many others do but I do like having the option to go out and hunt in the wild at camps, or whatever and farm xp which is a nice change of pace.  I know this will be a factor for not only myself but a couple buddies who are interested in playing as well.

Forced questing and no means of mob grindng for good xp killed my likes of FFXIV.  That excludes the FATEs that were apart of it.  

Originally posted by UWNVME
Originally posted by killahh
There's nothing wrong with three faction fighting, Daoc has done it for 12 years as a sub based game. That's 12 years longer than 90% of the games that have come out in the past couple years, lol

 And you're deluding yourself if you don't think that the 3-Faction system had plenty of problems that were never solved.

What part of any game doesnt have problems?  Its non existant.  Every game will have problems in all stages, and game style whether its PvP, PvE, RvR, etc.  The fact of the matter is that 3 realm RvR is by far better then 1v1.  Its been proven already and if you think otherwise then your being ignorant or naive, whicever one you prefer.  Why do you think soooooo many ppl clammer and speak about  DAoC's Realm vs Realm?  Because it was damn good.  You had many reasons to have pride and fight for your side and it seems theyre doing it in ESO as well.  And need I say more about the Darkness Falls style dungeon they will be adding?  Yeah.. That alone speaks volumes.  Mass amount of amazing fun memories there.

Anyone able to connect to the Elder Scrolls Online website?  It seems down for me... Could this be a revamping of the website and maybe a possibility for more info to be released?  Beta invites going out, site unavailable... things seem in motion.
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Iselin
I don't want every MMORPG I play to have all the features of every previous one I've ever played. That would be as boring as repeating content over and over again... sorta like raiding 

I don't mind if the feature concepts are there, but I don't want them implemented that exact same way which is, I think, the point you're making.

I don't mind mass group content. I don't mind instances. I don't mind pretty much any one feature of an mmo. I pretty much don't like that they are continually implemented in a nearly identical fashion. Sometimes I don't even mind that, but mostly I do. If that makes any sense at all.

It makes sense to me... and it reminds me of how they're doing their version of "heroic" dungeons. It's the same thing in that there are heroic dungeons just like in Rift, WOW, etc,. but they're implementing them by opening up new areas that weren't part of the non-heroic version.

 

They've also mentioned several times that part of their future content plans is to add a large PvP dungeon similar to the DAoC Darkness Falls dungeon... that was one of the best features of DAoC. Clone away!

 

Darkness falls was one of, if not the single greatest dungeon in history of these MMO's.  Solo, group, and raid content or PvP all in 1 massive dungeon that got progressively more difficult the further down you went.  I miss those days of sneaking around on my infiltrator to the other realms side.  Was a challenge but so thrilling and so fun.  Its one of the big reasons why Im excited for ESO is the Darkness Falls style dungeon they said theyre making and I feel they will do it right seeing how they have some DAoC devs on the team.

Originally posted by Caliburn101

I think the progression model is on the face of it quite robust.

The potential for various skill trees from class, race, NPC guild and questlines; multiple unlocked skill setups (further varied by in-skill specialisation options) and multiple gear stat boost setups means working towards a character theme and furnishing that theme with the desired abilities and optimisations will take, potentially, a great deal of time to achieve.

When this apparent fact is placed alongside the multiple paths with which one can achieve them - solo and group quest and exploration based world, open and closed dungeon PVE, adventure zone 'raid-size' PVE, and of course the central PVP, not to mention crafting et al, the variations on how you get there are not merely additive, they multiply.

This is a good thing - one of the greatest complaints about '3 month' games is that they allow speedy advancement to 'end-game' and top skill and gear levels are acheivable too quickly. The locusts always find the line of least resistance and spam it until they get bored.

I think Zenimax have been fully cognisant of this and have claimed to have built a game which has a non-linear, networked advancement model, hopefully sidestepping this problem entirely.

Of course, their claims that they have such a model could end up being smoke and mirrors. But if it isn't, I can actually see the kinds of players who love playing alts actually sticking with one character for much longer, building alternative skill and gear setups on one toon - 'alting' one character if you will - because as presented to us thusfar, this is the first time it has been meaningfully possible.

If this is indeed the case, I will be mightily impressed, and my personal habit of sticking with one character will be far more interesting and engaging for far, far longer than even a locust could complain about.

Im with you on this.  If they can truly pull this off and it is in fact what they have in-game then Ill probably be around for a long time and will be impressed as well.  With that said, what kind of stats can we expect on gear?  I still am uninformed on what kind of stats will be on gear aside from the passives that come with wearing specific armor types i.e cloth = mana regen, plate = hp, etc, etc. 

1 thin that does worry me and I hope is taken care of is the sever lack of monsters in the worlds of Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind.  Is that going to translate over to ESO?  Why I ask this is because Im wondering if theyre going to force us to quest to obtain levels/skill points.  Im hoping for a mix of content as in mobs in the world that you could go out and hunt for xp while also having the option to quest.  Certain games force you like FFXIV and I did not enjoy that(besides the FATE hunting)

Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Mackaveli44
Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Fendel84M
They do a lot of their own testing. Us beta testers are largely just stress testing. This phenomenon of large public beta tests is a rather new concept. Even WoW had a pretty small beta test and no open beta to speak of. I don't know anyone who was in EQ2 beta. They don't need big betas as much as you think they do.

WoW had a massive open beta that lasted for like 2 or so months.. and a rather large closed beta for at least 18 months before that, TESO seems to be ignoring any real feedback and just doing their own thing.. i wouldnt expect too much from the game at release

WoW also had one of the worst game launches in MMO history if you were actually there... Servers down for almost a week or two.  Good thing they had that 2 month beta right?  I take betas for what they are, a beta.  Regardless of what people say whether they think its the final product or not, I form my own judgments and dont listen to reviews/rants of ppl complaining as should others.  People rely on other ppls opinions way too much.  Way too much.  Look at game chat nowadays, you see tons and tons of ppl asking "Whats the best class" Whats the best healer" "whats the best tank" "Is this game fun" etc etc etc.  People put so much stock in what others say/think that theyre cheating themselves of possibly finding something they truly like rather then what others like.

who said anything about game launches being good or bad and how is comparing a game releaing 9 years ago when the MMO market was just coming into play and having no idea what they would expect from open beta being fairly tame to the onslauight that happened when the game went live... and yes i was there i was unfortunatly on blackrock none the less and got my fair share of free time added to my account just like everyone else.

 

my point of saying i wouldnt expect much from the game is basically in my opinion and yes this is my opinion, but the game has little to nothing to offer, feels clunky and wrong and just doesnt seem like 12 weeks is long enough and seems like another game being forced out the door by the publishers before the decvelopment studio has it right, just dont see a bright future ahead and that has nothing todo with launch week issues

Unless you've beta tested the game extensively(which I HIGHLY doubt) no one can say all that much about it because there hasnt been many betas nor much information about the game released.  Right now its like were walking into it semi-blindly knowing some basic stuff about the game but not much in terms of depth.  We know the basics - Levels, skill points, gear, etc, etc, etc.   This is all pointed at your comment regarding them not taking player feedback.  You do not know that for sure.  If you do, then how?  We havent seen much of the game, nor really played it so we dont know jack sh.. about it yet.  Its all speculation right now.

Originally posted by Caliburn101

I would say their marketting campaign is reasonably clever.

If they release too little detail, some people will complain.

If they release a lot of 'crunch' information, sites everywhere will analyse it to death and post their opinions of the success or failure of the game with great 'look at the facts' flourishes.

If allowed to pre-analyse the game, those fence-sitters who otherwise would have done so after buying the 'box' will not do so.

Better for the Zenimax bean counters by far to have people buy, then find out, than the opposite resulting in fewer sales.

There will always be detractors of a game's style of play, advancement etc. This way, they don't guarantee they won't try it, and thus make more sales.

Fairly sensible when you think about it...

While you do make some interesting points, It does make you wonder why they have absolutely zero information in regads to PvE on their site?  The only thing on there about the game is the world map and the Alliance War.  Thats it.  Theyre a few months off but to have absolutely zero information on a games main website only a few months out makes you wonder... Why?  Im not doom or glooming it or whatever the F its called.  Im really excited for the game but there were some valid points on this thread as to why they dont have any information on the site.

Originally posted by mbrodie
Originally posted by Fendel84M
They do a lot of their own testing. Us beta testers are largely just stress testing. This phenomenon of large public beta tests is a rather new concept. Even WoW had a pretty small beta test and no open beta to speak of. I don't know anyone who was in EQ2 beta. They don't need big betas as much as you think they do.

WoW had a massive open beta that lasted for like 2 or so months.. and a rather large closed beta for at least 18 months before that, TESO seems to be ignoring any real feedback and just doing their own thing.. i wouldnt expect too much from the game at release

WoW also had one of the worst game launches in MMO history if you were actually there... Servers down for almost a week or two.  Good thing they had that 2 month beta right?  I take betas for what they are, a beta.  Regardless of what people say whether they think its the final product or not, I form my own judgments and dont listen to reviews/rants of ppl complaining as should others.  People rely on other ppls opinions way too much.  Way too much.  Look at game chat nowadays, you see tons and tons of ppl asking "Whats the best class" Whats the best healer" "whats the best tank" "Is this game fun" etc etc etc.  People put so much stock in what others say/think that theyre cheating themselves of possibly finding something they truly like rather then what others like.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf
I cannot believe how much we don't know about this game.....and that's not a good thing, this close to launch.

 

Now that I think about it, your right.  Their website doesnt have very much information at all on the game other then the Alliance war.  Thats a bit surprising but if you do think about it, theyre apart of the "Elder Scrolls" franchise so maybe theyre trying to play their cards right and making damn sure things are right before doing so?  Who knows.  Theyre apart of one fo the biggest franchises being Elder Scrolls and I think they know that.  I wish we could get a little more information on the PvE parts.

I'm one of those who are excited for it.  On paper, the mass amount of dungeons, contested dungeons, Adventure zones and the PvP all have me excited and seem like a lot of content off the bat.  Now I do have my concerns.  After playing Oblivion/Skyrim, I noticed there's a lack of monsters in the world to fight with a lot of emphasis on questing to obtain your skill points/levels.   Now, does this take place in ESO? Not sure but from what Ive heard about the first starter zone, it seems that way.  But again, that was a starter zone.  Will it open up past the starter zone?  I sure as hell hope so and I know some friends who are looking into it hope so as well.  Now, don't get me wrong, it is an Elder Scrolls game which means itll be story driven but there should be different ways of progressing your character other then just questing/doing the story and I hope they open it up that way.

In my opinion, they have to have a mix of content to please the masses.  What I mean by that is, content for those people who love to quest(which I can be but like a change of pace) for xp/gear and since its an Elder Scrolls game, It WILL have a ton of quest content, and XP for those who like to go out and kill stuff in the world(I also love doing this as well).  Again, from what I've heard about the first starter zone, it was primarily questing which is a little disheartening and worrisome.  I sure hope the contested dungeons open up the possibility for group xp grind groups for those who enjoy to team up with friends/guildies and hunt mobs for xp/skill points.  Adventure zones - What is the significance of those?  Xp? Loot? raids? all 3? Im excited to see what they are and how they will play a role in the content we get.  Will they progress in difficulty the further in you explore in each zone? Will there be static mob camps to hunt mobs? Will there be named monsters to go after for loot? So many questions regarding those zones.

Afterall, it is an MMO which means theyre going to need a carrot at the end of the stick driving people to continue playing and so with that said, that means itll more then likely be gear based.  As well as realm pride based through the Cyrodill PvP.  Everybody loves loot else we all wouldnt be playing these kind of games.  Is gear going to have stats on them that affect our character how do they in other games?  As in + to str, or dex, etc.  Now I understand the stat system in the game is different relying on Magicka, Stamina, and Health but what other stats are there going to be and will they appear on gear? Is more difficult content, I.e expert/heroic/group content going to need a tank?(I love that roll of playing tanks) I know gear will have its benefits, example; Heavy armor having + HP/defensive, leather having evasion, cloth having + to mana regen etc. But will they also have stats on them? 

In a nutshell;

Will there be areas to hunt mobs for xp or will it be forced questing to gain levels/skill points/gear? (I hope not, FFXIV took the forced route and myself and my buddies left quickly because you had no incentive to go out and hunt the wild other then for the Fates)

Will there be named monsters in the world to go after for loot?

WIll the contested dungeons/Instances/Adventure zones be ways to obtain xp/skill points/loot?

How open are the zones/How big are they? Im not expecting skyrim big but seeing as how there will be zonelines, will each zone be large and open or funneled and linear?

Im sure Ill have more questions but cant think of them right now off the top of my head.  A lot of these are questions thatll dictate whether my buddies play or not.  More so for them, and not me.

I'm one of those who are excited for it.  On paper, the mass amount of dungeons, contested dungeons, Adventure zones and the PvP all have me excited and seem like a lot of content off the bat.  Now I do have my concerns.  After playing Oblivion/Skyrim, I noticed there's a lack of monsters in the world to fight with a lot of emphasis on questing to obtain your skill points/levels.   Now, does this take place in ESO? Not sure but from what Ive heard about the first starter zone, it seems that way.  But again, that was a starter zone.  Will it open up past the starter zone?  I sure as hell hope so and I know some friends who are looking into it hope so as well.  Now, don't get me wrong, it is an Elder Scrolls game which means itll be story driven but there should be different ways of progressing your character other then just questing/doing the story and I hope they open it up that way.

In my opinion, they have to have a mix of content to please the masses.  What I mean by that is, content for those people who love to quest(which I can be but like a change of pace) for xp/gear and since its an Elder Scrolls game, It WILL have a ton of quest content, and XP for those who like to go out and kill stuff in the world(I also love doing this as well).  Again, from what I've heard about the first starter zone, it was primarily questing which is a little disheartening and worrisome.  I sure hope the contested dungeons open up the possibility for group xp grind groups for those who enjoy to team up with friends/guildies and hunt mobs for xp/skill points.  Adventure zones - What is the significance of those?  Xp? Loot? raids? all 3? Im excited to see what they are and how they will play a role in the content we get.  Will they progress in difficulty the further in you explore in each zone? Will there be static mob camps to hunt mobs? Will there be named monsters to go after for loot? So many questions regarding those zones.

Afterall, it is an MMO which means theyre going to need a carrot at the end of the stick driving people to continue playing and so with that said, that means itll more then likely be gear based.  As well as realm pride based through the Cyrodill PvP.  Everybody loves loot else we all wouldnt be playing these kind of games.  Is gear going to have stats on them that affect our character how do they in other games?  As in + to str, or dex, etc.  Now I understand the stat system in the game is different relying on Magicka, Stamina, and Health but what other stats are there going to be and will they appear on gear? Is more difficult content, I.e expert/heroic/group content going to need a tank?(I love that roll of playing tanks) I know gear will have its benefits, example; Heavy armor having + HP/defensive, leather having evasion, cloth having + to mana regen etc. But will they also have stats on them? 

In a nutshell;

Will there be areas to hunt mobs for xp or will it be forced questing to gain levels/skill points/gear? (I hope not, FFXIV took the forced route and myself and my buddies left quickly because you had no incentive to go out and hunt the wild other then for the Fates)

Will there be named monsters in the world to go after for loot?

WIll the contested dungeons/Instances/Adventure zones be ways to obtain xp/skill points/loot?

How open are the zones/How big are they? Im not expecting skyrim big but seeing as how there will be zonelines, will each zone be large and open or funneled and linear?

Im sure Ill have more questions but cant think of them right now off the top of my head.  A lot of these are questions thatll dictate whether my buddies play or not.  More so for them, and not me.

Originally posted by ezduzit

I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

 

Please tell me your kidding? "Ineffective", are you joking? If done correctly ala DAoC, itll be amazing.  DAoC was one of, if not the most successful pvp game ever created and a lot of ppl will agree that it did it well. And, it wasnt even 100% PvP.  It had its mix of PvE just how ESO will have.  Fighting over stuff against other realms is 100x better than griefing players in low zones an what not.  Now I agree on arenas, they are pointless other then beefing up your own ego.  However when it comes to a zone where theres multiple sides fighting over keeps/other things that effect your side, then yes its worthwhile and very much needed because if you look at the track record of every mmo that has come out since EQ/WoW has tried to integrate pvp in the world that has zero effect on the world/side and even more so once arenas have entered the picture, it has not done so well at all.  I think ppl are wanting a mix of both PvE and PvP and no game has done it successfully since DAoC.  Ppl may disagree and thats fine but take a long hard look at all the games since those that I mentioned. 

Now PvPing and having zero effect on the world/side your fighting for/surroundings, than yes, its "Ineffective and pointless.  But seeing as how some devs on this team are from the DAoC era, I have a strong feeling that they will do it right and I know for a fact that many many many people are dying for something in the same spectrum.

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