Originally posted by brindy666

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this game but the release quality does seem to be a little poor. WoW had it's problems when it started, but I think WAR has out done it and that's a shame and surprise coming from Mythic.  What I'm really building up to is ... why?  and ... How effective was the beta testing?

As soon as I started playing (EU CE head start) I found a ton of bugs and I still manage to report two or three a session at least.

So either the beta testers weren't really testing very well OR Mythic was ignoring bug reports (because they were still working on actually developing the game, perhaps).

If it is the former then I am starting to think that the beta testing approach that these games goes through is flawed.  What seems to happen is that people just use it as a chance to play for free and in advance of everyone else.

If it is the latter, then I have basically paid to be a tester.

Either way, the situation isn't ideal.  I would be really interested in hearing from Mythic with regard to this and perhaps especially keen to see some statistics, .e.g what was/is the bug reporting rate, what was the fix rate, re-open rate, how many duplicates have been raised since the game went live and so on. 

Mythic has a chance to come clean and share their processes with the world while at the same time setting the standard for the QA release data of future MMOs.

Cheers,
Brindy

 

* I use WoW as the comparison because I played WoW in Europe from day 1 also and it is the currently the biggest, most popular MMO and thus the measuring stick for all other MMOs.

 

Actually, wow was much worse on bugs.  There were server crashes all over the board.  But, to be fair it was *almost* excusable in that Blizzard had never done an MMO before, compared to Mythic's DAoC prior to Warhammer.  But, I have to say that Warhammer had a *really* smooth launch and open beta compared to a *lot* of other MMO's.  By far the best launch I've ever experienced was LotRO, to the point that it *spoiled* me :P.  I recently played AoC, and believe me when I say it went from bad to worse.  Another poor launch was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (although, there have been so many improvements in the game that it's really became a diamond from the lump of coal it started out to be).  Now, I'm speaking from a North American point of view and have to say that Warhammer was one of the best MMO launches I've ever experienced.  I currently do *not* play the game (wow-player here, both wife and I), but I am so happy/glad to see that there is an MMO out there that can *really* provide some competition.  Competition is a good thing, forcing companies to always want to improve the game.  I hope for the success of both MMO's (WotLK and Warhammer) so players of both can enjoy their games.

By the way, all you that play Warhammer please ask Mythic to include a tanking class (plate mail/shield) for the Empire and Dark Elves.  It makes it so much easier to complete those PQs when us healers can heal without drawing aggro :P.

Peace.

Some good posts thus far.  However, I think that most people are missing the point that a tank is a *must* with any grouping at all.   Most people have made some valid points regarding the lack of tank(s) from a PVP point of view (or, RvR if ya will).  However, I was really disappointed to see that not every race had a tanking class.  This doesn't make *any* sense whatsoever.  I played Empire and let me just say that doing the PQ with just Empire sucks.  I played a Bright Wizard and got smacked down because I was out-dpsing the witch hunters.  I then played a Warrior Priest...and got beat down because my heals couldn't keep the dps-tank healed due to his lack of hps/armor.  I couldn't believe that Mythic would do this.  In my opinion they have *no* excuse for this clear imbalance.   I'm speaking for both Order and Destruction.  Dark Elves are in the same boat, which also stinks.  PQ's are some of the most ingenious additions in an MMO that I've ever seen.  So, it makes no sense to create a race that has limited/gimped ability to complete them.  By the way, what happens when this game reaches max population and the starting area population dwindles to near-zero?  How will those PQ's be completed then?  This raises some important questions that I think need to be answered, and that right soon.  :P

Peace.

Originally posted by openedge1

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by drarkanex

It was meant in the most possible of cynicism.  But honestly, Funcom should just shut their doors and admit they messed up.  I and quite a few of the AoC launch people are saddened and griefed by Funcom's demise.  AoC could have been something new and revolutionary, but in turn we get the usual "It's your fault for buying it" routine.  Funcom deserves every cynical response they can get and i'm not stopping until they fess up that they messed up royally.  I want an apology, a formal apology.  Not some washed up, gleaned over response from Erling.  I want the faces we know from Funcom to formally apologize to EVERYONE for their mistakes.   But until then, they will get nothing.

Well, Gaute resigned, Erling HAS apologized and he's the voice of the company... I'm not sure what else you want. You want to be angry, that's cool. You have every right to be, but that just seems like an odd request.

 

Agreed...

I mean, look at SWG, Vanguard and SOE, or LOTRO, DDO and Turbine..

I have yet to get an apology OR my money back for that wasted hard drive space..

But, I did learn my lesson and just said "No" to WAR!

Sad thing is, aside from LOTRO, WAR had very nice launch.  What stinks is that AoC has made lots of people *gun-shy* so to speak in that we're/they're afraid of being done the same way by *any* new MMO.  My wife and I both swore that we would wait at least a year before trying *any* new MMO based on how wrong we were done by Funcom and their disastrous AoC.  But, we were able to make it into the WAR open-beta and have to admit that it was a refreshing, fun experience.  We've still decided to wait, mind you, before switching to WAR.  But, WAR is definitely a sound prospect for future gaming...at least for us.

My point is this:  I think you may have said *no* to the wrong MMO.  Good luck and have fun in whatever game you do choose :P.

Peace.

I'm sorry, but botting of any type should be illegal.  If ya don't like grinding for primals, don't do it.  You have to miss out on some of the cool items/gear out there, but if ya can't work/play for it then ya don't deserve to have it.  As for botting helping us?  I will gladly go out there and gather my own items/reagents.  I'm grinding/questing for rep with factions anyway...it's an added plus that I am able to obtain *bonuses* while doing it.  It comes down to the player wanting the coolest gear, but not wanting to work for it.  It's the work ethic from real life *bleeding* over into virtual worlds.  Ya want it?  Sorry, bub, but ya gotta play just like the rest of us to get it.  Don't like it? Go play Hello, Kitty Big Island Adventure MMO :P.

Peace.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by DownMonkey

 "This will go a long way to counter claims that World of Warcraft lacks character customization"

 

Oh come on, you've got to be kidding?

Since EVERY player will be able to use the new abilities it DOES in fact lessen character customization.You are not customizing something if everyone is the same lol.Allowing every player to use the new scrolls or whatever form they end up taking takes away from CLASS definition.You might as well make a combat system where every class can do everything,that way there is no classes and it;s not even a MMORPG anymore.

That is the purpose of classes ,each has it's own abilities,that gives it definition.You think if everyone in the real world drove the exact same cars and they all had the exact same engines it would be fun/cool? no way.They should have brought in new abilities for EACH class,but in the way they do everything cheap,it was much easier to add very little and let everyone use it.That shows poor effort by there design staff.Some of these new abilities sound VERY powerful,like knockback,i can't see how you can just throw in new powerful attack ideas without re working the combat system.It sounds more to me like they just add things in with no thought at all,they try to guise there actions calling it new content,but it's all done meaningless.That's like adding in SIMS content and football content and everyone can fly in the game content,unless you plan it around the storyline[if there is one]and show some reason and thought into the added content,it looks like amateurs are doing it.

As usual they will build up it's hype and fool there player base as they usually do.....WHOA look at these cool new spells/potions we get..lol.I don't mind across the board stuff if it's in a First person shooter ,because that fits the design of the game and there is no classes.You don't add across the board stuff in a MMORPG and say here everyone can use it,like i said it looks like they were just too lazy to make content for each class,this was the simpler route.

Sorry, I disagree.  Character customization allows a player (count 'em...one player) to customize his/her player to his/her preferences.  That is customization by definition.  So what if I customize my toon, and then you customize your toon only to discover that we chose identical avenues during our customization? I customized mine, and you customized yours.  That they are similar/identical changes nothing regarding the PROCESS of customization.  Now, it may not be ORIGINAL but everyone can't be different.  Also, I completely disagree that every class can use the same thing (concerning the new inscribe).  Blizzard has not only brought new talents to EACH class IN ADDITION to the inscribe ability/skill that will allow people the ability to CUSTOMIZE existing abilities, making each class build unique (depending on the player).  Of course there are only going to be a limited amount of different builds.   That's inevitable.  But, you cannot deny that this opens up many avenues of venture concerning classes/skills.

Concerning your lame attempt to call the player-base of WoW fools (one who has been *fooled*), as that is a very ignorant remark based on biased dislike of the game and the people who play it.  I play WoW because it's fun, plain and simple.  Hell, if they can fool me into *thinking* I'm having fun, what's the difference?  I'm either having fun, or....I think I'm having fun!  Win-Win situation.

Anyway, I say we wait until the game expansion comes out, play the thing, then decide whether to bash it or boast/toast it.

Peace.

Originally posted by valkerus

I see alot of posts here about how excited and happy people are with blizz for this upcomming free content...Am I the only one that see's that this is not free?  One thing that has really jaded me with wow is that very factor. I pay $15 a month and outside of 3 actual content updates in 4 years all i get is a tuesday morning away from the game and CONSTANT "balancing". I don't really call balancing totally rehashing classes but whatever.

I just am really turned off by the amount of revenue this game has generated vs. how far the game has progressed.  To top it off it takes four years to get a new class but with the state of "balance" now there goes any hopes of content not loaded on a new disk. DK's are going to hit BG's and the tears will flow.  Its a game based on grouping and gearing at its core. But with all this carrot on a stick pvp purples its taking over the pve servers also. I was on a 50 level paladin of mine not that long ago and was looking for a sunken temple group. Every player in the queue was either a rogue, hunter or (i can't tank i do dmg) arms warrior.

I tried WAR but i'm not on the boat with that game. World of roguecraft has me extremely jaded. Thank god the force unleashed is comming soon.

Look, the sad truth is that BC did hurt the old world dungeons and grouping for old world dungeons.  However, that issue *is* being addressed.  Some of the old-world dungeons (10-man) are being made 5-man.  Loot has been better since previous patches, where bosses now drop guaranteed blue(s). Regarding you not able to find a group for Sunken Temple? Find a good guild and join it.  Pug groups are more disappointment that satisfaction, anyway.  To be quite honest I'm starting to see more people actually forming groups for dungeons like Dire Maul, Scholomance, and Stratholme (of course could be just a bunch of paladins and warlocks attempting to get epic mounts :P).  Even saw someone wanting to go to Blackrock.  *shrugs*  My friends and I are working on alts and have already decided to *visit* these old-world dungeons just to experience them.  We're taking our time and enjoying the scenery so to speak.  By the way, my wife and I are playing Warhammer Beta and we love it.  But, as most MMO's usually do, we're going to wait a bit for the game to *mature* into itself before we make the move (which, ultimately, we probably will...Warhammer is *that* good imo).  I don't want to be one of those that keeps whining about *the good ole days* when you *used to be able to do* this or that....I want to play a good, fun, stable game.  And, I've played quite a few and I still keep coming back to WoW.  Yes, the crafting is simple.  Yes, it's very forgivable on character death.  Yes, it is easy at times.  But, ya know what?  I want it/like it that way.  I want the game I play to be *FUN*.  I work 5-6 days a week.  I don't want to have to *work* on my game.  I want to play to have...you guessed it...FUN.  For those of you that call yourself the Hardcore Elite Gamers: keep your two-hour corpse runs.  Keep your experience-loss-on-toon-death.  Keep all that hardcore bs.  I'll take the fun :P.  Peace.

Have to disagree with ya there, ThePhil.  Customization of *any* kind to a toon is a HUGE selling point in a MMO.  People like to be able to customize their toons...period.  The more customization, the better.  To your statement regarding everyone wearing a helmet at lvl 20+? Yeah, for the most part, you're correct.  However, there are many that hide helmet, while there are many head pieces that do not cover the entire head.  To be honest, the full-head helmets are normally reserved for the mail/full plate armor sets, which still leaves the cloth and leather (headbands anyone?) sets that would, potentially, *show off* that nice haircut!  Also, do not forget that there are several RP-ing servers/guilds where this customization will be a huge selling point.  Peace.

By the way, ya know those traps that they're mentioning? Yeah, they're not new.  My wife and I left AoC over 3 weeks ago, and we had been in those dungeons/experienced those traps over a month ago.  I love how they try to impress the non-players with news that players (that lvl beyond 50) know/have experienced.  AoC was my wife's and I largest disappointment this year.  AoC started out pretty fun, but it didn't take long for the sheen of the combat to lose it's luster in the smoke/dust of bugs, crashes, memory leaks, lack of content.  We headed back to WoW because Blizzard seems to be about the only MMO out there that brings the best of all MMO's to players.  I for one want to *play* a game, not *work* my butt off to the point where it feels like...well...*work*.  I work 5-6 days a week.  I don't want to spend my *off-time* doing 2-hour corpse runs or having my hard-earned experience *stolen* from me by the imminent death of my toon.  :P  Enjoy whatever game you choose to play, I say.  Mine just happens to be World of Warcraft...with my wife :P.

Originally posted by melmoth1

The hate for this game is over the top, as in seriously hysterical and kinda weird.

It's a typical mmo with some bugs and ace graphics. Typical in that you do quests and shit. It does feel a little more "console-ish" than usual mmo's, but it's a good, enjoyable game overall - at least for me, the casual working gamer. It needs some love with drops though, I am a bit of a dandy at heart and dont like the grim/drab looking shit they make you wear.

If your thing is posing while pvping, then maybe wow. If your thing is crafting, then definitely the new-improved vanguard. But if you have got used to gaming with Mass Effect, Oblivion, Crysis et al then AOC seems a logical choice in terms of "look" and play.

If you can afford 2 games - then I would have AOC for the cool graphics and combat, backed up by a more traditonal mmo like wow, eve, vanguard, cov etc.

The haters are rabid for the holy grail - anything less gets flamed to a crisp. Damn, I feel like flamin myself sometimes, but I'd rather just read cool comics if the games bore me.

Anyway, if nothing pleases, then you should try old-school dice and pencil rpgs, that shit is the real deal immersion. Nothing beats it if you got the time and mates. I got neither these days :(.

Regards

 

melmoth

Actually, it's the hate for Funcom more than a hate of AoC.  Funcom has been really poor in the customer support department, and really terrible in the bug-fxing department.  Plus, they have no excuse.  This is *not* Funcom's first MMO.  They've been in this ballpark before and should *know the playing field*.

Originally posted by Selencia

They lied in order to sell their game and now people are unsettled by that and unwilling to play that game any longer. It's funny how much this is turning out like Vanguard: SoH did, only I actually think there is more animosity towards Funcom than there ever was towards Sigil/Brad McQuaid.

Yes, but SOE did what Funcom didn't do: they started listening to the community and attempted to fix their *mistakes* and create an enjoyable gaming experience.  I have to say the leaps and bounds made in VG are awesome...imo.  Anyway, this coming from an ex-AoC player.  My wife and I quit AoC due to bugs, but more than that the inability of Funcom to make decent headway on major problems within AoC.  Oh, hey! They did focus several patches on the Necromancer tho! Kudos!

Yo,

Brutotal, you're not from Set Server by chance are ya?  Ankor, are you from Set Server on AoC? If so, this is Kilgar.  If not, forgive my bothering of ya.