Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Kinchyle

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Redemp

I got to Hell and it dawned on me .... this is a bastardized Diablo with way to many Mmo influences.

  

 And there it is The mantra that will drown out all serious discussion for weeks to come. Every game here has one. Instead of adding anything useful to the conversation it will be the fallback reply to every thread.

The mantra....in reality...is that people will or will not like a game. The fact is, most of these posts are just opinions. One negative opinion amongst MANY satisfied customers STILL means the game is good.

 

"a bastardized Diablo"....please. D2 was a "bastardized" D1. Play or don't. Buy it or don't. [mod edit]They all seem like opinions from people who have never played an action RPG. Let alone D1 or D2.

 

Edit: This isn't aimed at you Zym....but the whole post.

 

[mod edit] I played D1 and D2, they were my first RPGs and I have very fond memories of them.  I'm NOT so crazy about D3.  I agree with the poster that called it "bastardized," although that's not the word I would use.  I think much of the ORIGINAL series has been stripped from D3 leaving it impotent, in my opinion, in comparison to the originals.

 

But you guys go right ahead and LOVE D3.  Your opinion is just an opinion, just like ours.  And we're all allowed to HAVE opinions that don't necessarily agree with each other, so.....deal with it.  Not everyone that played the original games thinks THIS Diablo is flawless, sorry.

A - freaking - men.

I've been searching for a satisfying mmo since the days of pre-NGE SWG and I think I've finally found the one for me - Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted (AKA Horizons). It's not very well known (at least not anymore, under it's new name) and the population is on the small side, but it still has devoted devs and it's offers an amount of variety and freedom that you don't find very often in 3D mmos. As a "niche" gamer of sorts, it's gets the job done for me.

I made a thread and video of what I've learned about the game (since I started playing it) if any of you want to check it out.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by IrishChai
To the posters that are hell bent on looking down on others for their opinions, or getting offensive and insulting about another person's interest in a game, you just need to be aware there are people on this Earth that do think differently than you do and it does not mean they are lesser beings because of it. You don't need to say that all people who think [insert anybody's opinion here] must be [your condescending, insulting opinion of them]. It'll make these forums a much better place without those comments.

Agreed. I'll admit that I get a bit too personal at times but in the end, I acknowledge the fact that people have different tastes and that's just how it is. That said, I've stated my mind about my feelings on D3, so I don't plan on posting over on that board much anymore. 

In a situation like this, where two games are competing in a similar market, conversation of the two typically tend to degrade down to a "I'm right and you're an idiot" slugfest on both sides. I'm done with taking part in that atmosphere.

 My reason for even posting in this thread was for the whole fact that the op recommends the game and the only reason he can give is because it more or less is that PoE is what D3 should have been.

Just so you understand, the PoE community has been rather hateful, ignorant and just rude to the D3 one. So yes I may have came off a bit rude and that I apologize if you were offended. That said, my comment about it staying alive was honest but I didn't mean any ill will with that part :p

Well, in all fairness, it's his opinion, and I happen to agree with him. Perhaps he could have elaborated a bit more, but regardless, he's entitled to feel that way he wants about it.

That might be the general inclination here on the mmorpg forums, but from what I've seen on the official forums, they don't seem any more hateful than any other gaming community. I doubt the D3 community is all that different in itself. I've seen more than a fair amount of hate-mongering towards PoE from the D3 crowd as well.

That said, I'm also sorry for personal attacks that I throw in my posts from time to time. I think this is a situation where we just need to agree to disagree and call it a day. 

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by Aori

This game will fade into nothingness within months of its official release. The small minority of people this game reallly caters too won't keep it running for to long. 

Though this game is nothing compared to D3 anyone who says otherwise usually hasn't play D3 or even looked it up at all. However if you truely prefer PoE to D3, hope the game works out for ya and they can siphon enough cash shop money from you guys to keep it afloat.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel validated in your crusade for Diablo 3 I guess. It must kill your ego to see other people enjoying something that you seem to despise. I've played both, and it's no contest for me - PoE is the superior product in my eyes. 

The sooner you come to the realization that your opinion isn't the gospel, the better.

 I was being realistic actually. However like I said, if you like the game thats awesome and I do hope it works out.

That said however I personally don't see the game running all that long with dedicated servers, it does get expensive and they are an indie company with little to no backing that i'm aware of. Running a F2P game on dedicated servers usually requires a rewarding cash shop which is one of the reasons people use against D3 when talking about PoE.

Indie companies trying to host a game online constantly is going to be difficult financially. Thus the reason they did the whole buy into the beta thing, its to test the waters of who will pay for their product since they already said it would be F2P.

So again, goodluck to you and your game, I honestly wish it well.

P.S. stay out of my forum if you can't stand me in yours ;)

Your opinion of a gaming companies situation isn't being "realistic". What exactly do you know about them and their plans, or even their overall financial situation, apart from what they've made known? I'm sure you're not anymore enlightened than the rest of us.

Fallen Earth was also an indie developed game, and aside from going through some rocky transitions, is still running strong (better than ever even) with their new F2P hybrid system. The population seems very constant from what I've observed and it's considered a niche game, so there's a bigger market for gamers like us than you might care to believe. That's only one example.

If you really wished it well, you wouldn't make condescending, troll bait posts like that in the first place. Yeah, I've made several comments in the Diablo 3 forums, but it's normally only to rebuke mis-information or biased attacks on a game I happen to think doesn't get the credit it deserves - I even give D3 credit for what I feel it does right. I don't, however, make posts that do nothing but attack the quality and well-being of a game simply out of spite or because I think my opinion somehow out-weighs other's that don't share my own. That's more than I can say about several of the posts I've seen made by you in recent days. 

 

 Um fallen earth is one of the worst examples you could have used. First off the game started P2P with box sales, something PoE isn't starting with. It struggled along for 2 years before it was finally picked up. Now its F2P by another company with some 'P2W' elements. The game is part of Steams F2P mmo category, of course its going to be better free than when it was P2P when it has steam advertising. Without steam that game would have fallen well past earth.

Either way, PoE caters to a smaller group of people. If they don't sell content, they'll have to make the cash shop P2W.. so really I don't know how this can end well for the game.

I gave the game an honest run and i've already said what I think is bad about it in posts before. If the game keeps going then awesome if not i'm sorry people wasted money on a beta.

If you had actually read what I wrote, you'd see the "rocky transitions" part of my post. I'm well aware of what it went through, but the fact remains, it's still around, it's F2P, and it's still going strong. Obviously, an indie developer is at a loss in just about every way when going into an endeavour like this, but that's more the reason why I respect them over a company like Blizzard, who despite being able to pour countless resources into a mainstream title like D3, came out with what I feel is a lackluster product, even next to an indie developed game like PoE or FE.

I also disagree that without steam FE would have failed, as it had a decent sized population even before it started being sold there, but I'm not getting into that here.

So yeah, you can continue to recite your "doom and gloom" speak towards any game that doesn't get your seal of approval, that's cool. I'll keep on playing underdog games like FE and Istaria that I feel are far superior to many of those polished pieces of sh*t that are backed by million dollar investors. If they bite the bullet then whatever, I'll enjoy and support them while they're here.

Originally posted by IrishChai
To the posters that are hell bent on looking down on others for their opinions, or getting offensive and insulting about another person's interest in a game, you just need to be aware there are people on this Earth that do think differently than you do and it does not mean they are lesser beings because of it. You don't need to say that all people who think [insert anybody's opinion here] must be [your condescending, insulting opinion of them]. It'll make these forums a much better place without those comments.

Agreed. I'll admit that I get a bit too personal at times but in the end, I acknowledge the fact that people have different tastes and that's just how it is. That said, I've stated my mind about my feelings on D3, so I don't plan on posting over on that board much anymore. 

In a situation like this, where two games are competing in a similar market, conversation of the two typically tend to degrade down to a "I'm right and you're an idiot" slugfest on both sides. I'm done with taking part in that atmosphere.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by Aori

This game will fade into nothingness within months of its official release. The small minority of people this game reallly caters too won't keep it running for to long. 

Though this game is nothing compared to D3 anyone who says otherwise usually hasn't play D3 or even looked it up at all. However if you truely prefer PoE to D3, hope the game works out for ya and they can siphon enough cash shop money from you guys to keep it afloat.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel validated in your crusade for Diablo 3 I guess. It must kill your ego to see other people enjoying something that you seem to despise. I've played both, and it's no contest for me - PoE is the superior product in my eyes. 

The sooner you come to the realization that your opinion isn't the gospel, the better.

 I was being realistic actually. However like I said, if you like the game thats awesome and I do hope it works out.

That said however I personally don't see the game running all that long with dedicated servers, it does get expensive and they are an indie company with little to no backing that i'm aware of. Running a F2P game on dedicated servers usually requires a rewarding cash shop which is one of the reasons people use against D3 when talking about PoE.

Indie companies trying to host a game online constantly is going to be difficult financially. Thus the reason they did the whole buy into the beta thing, its to test the waters of who will pay for their product since they already said it would be F2P.

So again, goodluck to you and your game, I honestly wish it well.

P.S. stay out of my forum if you can't stand me in yours ;)

Your opinion of a gaming companies situation isn't being "realistic". What exactly do you know about them and their plans, or even their overall financial situation, apart from what they've made known? I'm sure you're not anymore enlightened than the rest of us.

Fallen Earth was also an indie developed game, and aside from going through some rocky transitions, is still running strong (better than ever even) with their new F2P hybrid system. The population seems very constant from what I've observed and it's considered a niche game, so there's a bigger market for gamers like us than you might care to believe. That's only one example.

If you really wished it well, you wouldn't make condescending, troll bait posts like that in the first place. Yeah, I've made several comments in the Diablo 3 forums, but it's normally only to rebuke mis-information or biased attacks on a game I happen to think doesn't get the credit it deserves - I even give D3 credit for what I feel it does right. I don't, however, make posts that do nothing but attack the quality and well-being of a game simply out of spite or because I think my opinion somehow out-weighs other's that don't share my own. That's more than I can say about several of the posts I've seen made by you in recent days. 

Originally posted by Aori

This game will fade into nothingness within months of its official release. The small minority of people this game reallly caters too won't keep it running for to long. 

Though this game is nothing compared to D3 anyone who says otherwise usually hasn't play D3 or even looked it up at all. However if you truely prefer PoE to D3, hope the game works out for ya and they can siphon enough cash shop money from you guys to keep it afloat.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel validated in your crusade for Diablo 3 I guess. It must kill your ego to see other people enjoying something that you seem to despise. I've played both, and it's no contest for me - PoE is the superior product in my eyes. 

The sooner you come to the realization that your opinion isn't the gospel, the better.

Originally posted by Aori

It really is very confusing.. in PoE i saw nothing remotely impressive about its graphic, detail, mechanics or even the gore as people put it.  

To say the graphics are better than D3 is just being ignorant. You may prefer the style but the graphics aren't from the same era. If you prefer the bland dated style of PoE then more power to ya, me personally in modern times i'll stick to modern games. I've played games from times past, I want something new not old.

Some of you people must seriously be blind; either that or ad hominem is your thing.

Originally posted by wrightstuf

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by sadeyx

Came expecting a discusion about Titan quest and Diablo...

Arrived with a discusison about Path of Exile Vs Diablo.  (srsly OP, I'd complain about users trying to de-rail your discussion)

Path of Exile is awful,  it seriously doesnt compete with either Titan Quest 'Immortal Throne' or Diablo 3.    Its more on the level of Torchlight.   Which imo was just a joke, a studio that had some spare time to make a quick hack n slash.

---

 

TQ Vs D3

 

This is tough since we've only seen 1% of diablo,  I do agree though TQ is awesome!  The class combinations alone are mindboggling,  the vast amount of items (you dont even realise how many items there are until you download TQCollector.

And yes, the graphics on TQ do seem better than D3,  although I dont think the animations and the effects are quite as good.

 

Then of course there is TQ's biggest problem,  client side items.  This makes duping and modding easy, you wont see this in D3 and when you do find rare items in d3 it will be a lot more exciting than in TQ.. esp since you can sell items for real money.

 

Diablo is Diablo though,  its a phenomena, a historical game that will set new records,  I was never part of the Diablo 2 history making and Im sure as hell not going to miss out this time.

At the risk of de-railing it even further, what exactly makes PoE awful compared to the others? It's pointless saying sh*t like that without giving any reasoning behind it.

So what makes the game seem so terrible for you?

I can answer that one...

PoE has ugly graphics, just varying shades of red and grey. It has no story at all or if it had one, it was so shallow, i missed it altogether. The towns and npcs are lackluster at best, with no character at all. the monster fighting was 97% crabs and didnt change much from 1 zone to the next. bosses were just bigger crabs.

I bought a beta key for 5 bucks. worst 5 bucks i've ever spent. It would of been much better spent on hot pockets and a can of red bull to enjoy while i played the D3 beta.

You giving me your subjective opinion about something doesn't answer my question. Personally, I greatly prefer the art style of PoE to D3, because I like grittier over cartoon-ish. As for the story, they're are still working on a lot of stuff, but from what I've seen I disagree with your point on this too. The game is still in closed beta stage, and they're working with a much more limited funding, so naturally there are some things they still need to work on.

So yeah, all things considered, I still fail to see what's so much cripplingly worse about PoE. You might not personally like the style of it, among other things, but that doesn't make it "awful" compared to the others. People need to get over themselves and realize that their opinion isn't the gospel.

Originally posted by BartDaCat

Originally posted by tazarconan

Path of exile is a diablo style game meaning hackn slash . Its main differences from D3 from what i understand is that it offers an mmorpg world like all other mmo's while d3 offers just the chance to meet online with few ppl and party with them just to queqe for arenas  or do some pve right?

Also from what i read in Path of exile site the classes are deeper and offfer more freedom to players in what we call build your character than the usual lately tactic of Blizzard to guide your character's proggress, while in POE there is much more freedom from what beta testers say. Thats also a huge+ for POE comapared to D3.

 

Yeah... saw the videos, visited the site... still getting Diablo 3.

Funny thing is I don't need to go to POE's forums and try to sway anyone from playing it.  I'm comfortable with both games.  I'll probably try POE as well.

You kids should learn to play nicer, and make POE's community look friendlier, or get the hell of my lawn!

 

I'm a fan of PoE, and I agree with this completely. Seriously guys, stop trolling every single D3 thread with PoE comparisons and whatnot. Both games have their pros and cons and there's nothing wrong with liking and playing both of them.

Originally posted by sadeyx

Came expecting a discusion about Titan quest and Diablo...

Arrived with a discusison about Path of Exile Vs Diablo.  (srsly OP, I'd complain about users trying to de-rail your discussion)

Path of Exile is awful,  it seriously doesnt compete with either Titan Quest 'Immortal Throne' or Diablo 3.    Its more on the level of Torchlight.   Which imo was just a joke, a studio that had some spare time to make a quick hack n slash.

---

 

TQ Vs D3

 

This is tough since we've only seen 1% of diablo,  I do agree though TQ is awesome!  The class combinations alone are mindboggling,  the vast amount of items (you dont even realise how many items there are until you download TQCollector.

And yes, the graphics on TQ do seem better than D3,  although I dont think the animations and the effects are quite as good.

 

Then of course there is TQ's biggest problem,  client side items.  This makes duping and modding easy, you wont see this in D3 and when you do find rare items in d3 it will be a lot more exciting than in TQ.. esp since you can sell items for real money.

 

Diablo is Diablo though,  its a phenomena, a historical game that will set new records,  I was never part of the Diablo 2 history making and Im sure as hell not going to miss out this time.

At the risk of de-railing it even further, what exactly makes PoE awful compared to the others? It's pointless saying sh*t like that without giving any reasoning behind it.

So what makes the game seem so terrible for you?

Originally posted by spikers14

Originally posted by TheDubanat0r

I just got Titan Quest and after playing the D3 beta it seems Titan Quest has everything D3 has and it even looks better. The skill tress are immense and the game is fully voiced. Titan Quest came out how many years ago? and it can stand toe to toe with D3. Whats that say about D3.

persistent characters, online play (are there still any TQ games goin??? lol), RMAH, support, a functioning company, and a future.

That being said. I love TQIT as well. :)

Not sure if you were asking for the TQ original game specifically, but as far as TQIT goes, there's still hundreds of people that play it online. I was just on earlier this morning (probably the opposite of peak times for the US playerbase at least), and there was about 180-200 people. During peak times that's probably about double.

All in all, it's pretty impressive, especially for an ARPG that came out in '06. I'm planning to start playing it pretty actively, at least until PoE is released.

Originally posted by dotdotdash

Originally posted by alacres

I'd normally agree with that, but with a game that involves playing with random people (unless you just happen to have a few friends that play at the exact same times and you only play with them), you're most likely going to run into people who won't group with you (or kick you) for not playing as efficiently as possible. In a game where respeccing isn't an instant swap (like D2), you had more leverage, but in a game where you can swap out at anytime, people will expect you do what's considered "best", and why wouldn't you if it can be done instantly/effortlessly? 

But sure, restricting yourself is fine if you only play with friends/people you know, and/or you don't care about getting kicked by randoms when they realize you're not going to play the way the mathematicians recommend.

I think you're taking it way too far personally :)

On normal and hell difficulty no one is going to care what abilities you are using so long as progress is being made. When and if you get to Nightmare and Inferno, or play hardcore, people are going to expect you to be using a build that works well. Why? Because their success, and their character's existence in hardcore, is dependent on you being able to perform.

If you go into Inferno using some random build that doesn't actually do anything - which, might I add, is not likely to happen in D3 due to the way the skills are built - then why should people tolerate that? I wouldn't, and I'm pretty sure most other people intending to clear Nightmare and Inferno wouldn't.

In D2 on Hell you turned up in the right spec. If anyone got any idea that you WEREN'T in the right spec, you just got removed. You didn't have leverage at the top end, so I have no idea why you are claiming you did. The talent system - and the complexities involved with respecing - made it so that if you weren't in a spec that your group wanted, you were simply removed from the group. At the lower end, and just like in D3, any spec worked for anything.

It's no different to what happens in MMOs; turn up to an instance in the wrong spec, get told to respec or get removed.

The difference here is that there are MORE right specs to be used in various instances.

You don't have to believe me; you can just go and look at how the skills are built using the TCs on Diablo3.com.

All I get from you is that you want to be able to play how you want at all times, regardless of level of difficulty. You want your cake, and you want to eat it to. In reality... that would result in a system where by EVERYONE may as well have 1 skill that they use from start to finish, without any chance to make any decisions at any point because they'd all be superfluous anyway.

Not at all, not sure why you think that.

Well, either I only joined groups that were the exception to the rule, or I had a build close enough to cookie cutter parameters to be considered acceptable, because I never had any problems in D2, regardless of the difficulty (I never played hardcore though, so I don't doubt how strict people are there). Even if anyone had said anything, at least I would have had the defense/leverage of, "well, it's a pain in the ass to respec, so give me a shot the way I am and see how it works out," With D3, there wouldn't be any good excuse for keeping the build you actually like using, because due to the ease of it, you will be expected to respec whenever necessary, and I really hate that. Again I ask, why even have builds at all? If you can't keep a certain kind of "build identity" to your character, what's even the point? Just like your last example, why even have any choice at all with a system like this? The game might as well just pick what's best for you depending on what you're doing since you're going to have to do that anyway.

Also, I'll believe the "MORE right specs" when I actually see them in practice. Things can sometimes play out differently on the field, especially in each respective situation (boss fights for example). 

Originally posted by Torqia

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by Torqia

It funny that this thread POE talks about how it is free but there is no mention about the massive cash shop thats going to fund that game... You think they made it for free??? what are you smoking?

Yes i know they wont make it pay to win as in best gear, but try drakensang and youll find out how annoying it is that you cant enter a dungeon or open a chest without a key bought in their store. How utterly annoying it is that all the little things that makes the experience fluid has a price tag.

Ill take D3's price model over POE's any day. At least i only have to dish out the cash one time and thats it. And no RMA is a choise you take, and i for one choose to ignore it. Im pretty sure ignoring it will make my experience a better one since i play to feel the excitement of finding the loot, not buying it.

try ignoring all the chests and dungeons... shivers..

 

 

 

From what I understand, most of the items in PoE's cash shop will be cosmetic and storage type stuff. The Devs themselves have already stated their dislike for P2W, and as far as I can see, have no intention on restricting content either. Here is a list of what they say will be available in Open beta (and most likely when it hits live) - 

Public stash tabs (viewable to other players for trade purposes)
Cosmetic pets
Alternate skill effects
Special animations (for example, taunts or PvP victory animations)
Special paid leagues (with custom game rules)
Guild storage
Alternate item skins and visual effects
Special cosmetic item properties such as “extra gore”
Item dyes

As for the other game you mentioned, I don't know anything about it, and I don't really see the point in referencing it here.

Your points are valid and yes it is perhaps farfetched to bring Drakensang into the bowl although its has alot more in common with POE than D3 has in my book..

What im trying to say is just that P2W or not.. I simpley cant stand that things that should be in game like the leangthy list you just made costs money on the side and by my definition isnt the same as calling a game free... Storage shouldnt cost money... The game should.

Well, I'm not personally a fan of cash shop games either, but I understand that they need to make money somehow. For me, nothing they're planning to offer in the shop is game breaking, so I don't mind it. Besides, if you don't mind forking over 15 a month like you would with a p2p game, you'd still be able to get most of what would even be considered "essential" like extra space and whatnot.

Overall, when it comes to things that are truly important to me (like customization and art style) PoE gets my vote, so I can handle the negatives. If I need to pay a little to get the more "essential" addons, while at the same time helping to support a bold indie developer in this market of giants, in order to play an interesting game, I'm cool with that too. 

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by Torqia

It funny that this thread POE talks about how it is free but there is no mention about the massive cash shop thats going to fund that game... You think they made it for free??? what are you smoking?

Yes i know they wont make it pay to win as in best gear, but try drakensang and youll find out how annoying it is that you cant enter a dungeon or open a chest without a key bought in their store. How utterly annoying it is that all the little things that makes the experience fluid has a price tag.

Ill take D3's price model over POE's any day. At least i only have to dish out the cash one time and thats it. And no RMA is a choise you take, and i for one choose to ignore it. Im pretty sure ignoring it will make my experience a better one since i play to feel the excitement of finding the loot, not buying it.

try ignoring all the chests and dungeons... shivers..

 

 

From what I understand, most of the items in PoE's cash shop will be cosmetic and storage type stuff. The Devs themselves have already stated their dislike for P2W, and as far as I can see, have no intention on restricting content either. Here is a list of what they say will be available in Open beta (and most likely when it hits live) - 

Public stash tabs (viewable to other players for trade purposes)
Cosmetic pets
Alternate skill effects
Special animations (for example, taunts or PvP victory animations)
Special paid leagues (with custom game rules)
Guild storage
Alternate item skins and visual effects
Special cosmetic item properties such as “extra gore”
Item dyes

As for the other game you mentioned, I don't know anything about it, and I don't really see the point in referencing it here.

Originally posted by Torqia

It funny that this thread POE talks about how it is free but there is no mention about the massive cash shop thats going to fund that game... You think they made it for free??? what are you smoking?

Yes i know they wont make it pay to win as in best gear, but try drakensang and youll find out how annoying it is that you cant enter a dungeon or open a chest without a key bought in their store. How utterly annoying it is that all the little things that makes the experience fluid has a price tag.

Ill take D3's price model over POE's any day. At least i only have to dish out the cash one time and thats it. And no RMA is a choise you take, and i for one choose to ignore it. Im pretty sure ignoring it will make my experience a better one since i play to feel the excitement of finding the loot, not buying it.

try ignoring all the chests and dungeons... shivers..

From what I understand, most of the items in PoE's cash shop will be cosmetic and storage type stuff. The company themselves have already stated their dislike for P2W, and as far as I can see, have no intention on restricting content either. Here is a list of what they say will be available in Open beta (and most likely when it hits live) - 

Public stash tabs (viewable to other players for trade purposes)
Cosmetic pets
Alternate skill effects
Special animations (for example, taunts or PvP victory animations)
Special paid leagues (with custom game rules)
Guild storage
Alternate item skins and visual effects
Special cosmetic item properties such as “extra gore”
Item dyes

As for the other game you mentioned, I don't know anything about it, and I don't really see the point in referencing it here.

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Hit a 60$ stamp on Path of Exile and people would go "WTF IS THIS MADNESS!?"

PoE is only remotely "good" because it's free.

Stop cutting a slack for games just because they are free.

If a game sucks it sucks, no matter what it costs. Lower price doesn't make a game suck less.

Ok, what exactly makes it suck? Please, enlighten us.

Originally posted by wrightstuf

PoE? good lord, thats a stretch comparing it to D3. Some crappy knockoff of diablo made by some guys in their basement. It wont even see light of day unless you donate money.

Wow, what are you smoking exactly? It's already in closed beta, and will be going open in June. The release date probably won't be long after.

I don't know if you're trolling or just genuinely ignorant.

Originally posted by dotdotdash

Originally posted by alacres

This, 100%.

Not only are cookie cutter builds inevitably going to happen (it always happens), I surmise that it will possibly be even worse due to how easy it is to switch everything out. I can already imagine a group of min/maxing barbs (for example) with nearly identical builds (whichever is the most efficient for the area they're killing mobs in). Then, as soon as they get close to a boss, it's time for everyone to go back to town and switch to whatever is optimum for boss killing. 

Without any kind of restriction on build swapping (having to be out of combat first isn't really a restriction...), I fear this will be a rampant occurrence in the game. D2 may have made it fairly difficult to respec, but I think it was a good compromise for giving players a chance to rectify mistakes, while not trivilizing the entire aspect of actually having a build.

 

I don't think it matters at all.

At the end of the day you can CHOSE not to swap out your skills if you wish to restrict yourself in that regard, whereas others can chose to swap out as often and as flagrantly as they want. You can apply the same restrictions that Diablo 2 had to yourself and, if your friends are willing, the group of people you play with.

What other people are doing doesn't effect you, so why should you care? How other people play the game and how you play the game are two distinctly unrelated ideas in this regard.

I'd normally agree with that, but with a game that involves playing with random people (unless you just happen to have a few friends that play at the exact same times and you only play with them), you're most likely going to run into people who won't group with you (or kick you) for not playing as efficiently as possible. In a game where respeccing isn't an instant swap (like D2), you had more leverage, but in a game where you can swap out at anytime, people will expect you do what's considered "best", and why wouldn't you if it can be done instantly/effortlessly? 

But sure, restricting yourself is fine if you only play with friends/people you know, and/or you don't care about getting kicked by randoms when they realize you're not going to play the way the mathematicians recommend.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by DarkPony

Problem is that while it might still offer choice and freedom at later levels, the system simply doesn't show it. Skill trees are a brilliant, elegant design aspect. They works wonders in communicating the stuff you get to work towards and your progress gained.

Personally I like the fact that you don't have access to all skills at the end and get to swap them at a whim in other games: having important choices to make is what gives these games a sense of control. Please allow me to make mistakes :)

This is what was lacking in the stress test for me: I didn't feel like I had to make any important decision.

In fact there has been a lot of innovation in the hack & slash genre since D2 from other developers but D3 kind of chose to ignore that. Example:

I've installed Titan Quest + expansion again yesterday and that system is so much more intuitive. Giving people the option to pick two masteries (skill trees) to determine their class is awesome. Combined they make up for 81 class archetypes and in each skill tree there are choices to make (like the Hunting tree allowing for specialization towards spear and bow skills).

Brilliant design that; by taking a system that works (skill tree progress) and giving so many options and important choices to make, it feels like you, as a player, are at the helm.

Ha, glad to see I wasn't the only one who decided to get Titan Quest going again after this. If the D3 beta did anything, it got me itching for a good ARPG again, and Titan Quest is certainly one of the best (imo).

I've got a Templar build already planned out - looking forward to testing it :)

Cool! :)

Exactly the place I'm in. D3 gave me a shot of hack & slashing but then I realized I needed MOAR! *enter dusty Titan Quest CD revival*

I've started a Brigand, level 12 at the moment and pretty twinked out (thank god I saved my Vault mod files from years ago) so normal difficulty should be a breeze.

Pew pew!

p.s. The game still looks very pretty with everything maxed out at a high resolution.

p.p.s. TQ is still the most underestimated diablo clone ever. It's often called Diablo 2.5 and with good reason. Thing is, I like its skill and mastery systems much better than D3.

I agree TQ is severely under-rated, and I was surprised to see how great it still looks, when I played it on my new HDTV. It was so fluid it almost looked life-like. 

I'm still a little undecided on a class though. I was messing around on my Templar (he's only 10) and although I feel like he will be a powerful character later on, he really bores the crap out of me. Even once I get higher level, I won't have many active abilities, due to all the synergies I went with to make the build survivable.

I'd like to find something that has decent survivability, uses a shield, and has a good amount of activity in battle, but you always have to compromise somewhere it seems :p. 

Btw, any suggestions on mods? I don't want anything that gives an advantage, but I noticed people talking about a "fan patch" that fixes certain bugs in the game, but makes it impossible to play with those who don't use it. Is that still recommmended?