Originally posted by mastersomrat

Hello all,

I am trying to decide which one to play and one of the deciding factors is going to be which one has more subs (doesn't seem like I should play a MMO if their aren't any players).  XFire shows Aion as having twice the subs but MMORPG doesn't even show Aion as the top ten.  Any ideas which of these two are the better and which has more players?  Thanks for help.

- You will find alot of ppl to play with in both games, so here theres a tie.

- Wich 2 are better? AION by far but thats my opinion.

The best you can do is do the trials, no cost involve, just do it.

You are from US, so no AION f2p for you atm.

The description of the game is "to good to be true" just like some others in the pass.

Promise features in a general way its easy, made them work its other thing.

For me, i just bealive when i see it and try it. Allready learn few years ago to NOT OVERHYPE any game 

But yes, i will keep a eye on this one

Yes.

Having magic or not doesnt define a good game, not even close.

Originally posted by fenistil

Guild vs Guild / world pvp is better BUT it is SO much harder for devs to make it right.   It really have to have very carefully made risk / reward ratio , anti-gank measures , some safe heavens, etc 

 

Very hard to do. That's why it failed so many times.

 

If done right it is good thing though.

I dont think is so hard like that, they dont even have to innovate.

L2 have a really nice system, and its very simple to implement:

- PK system: someone that kill other without fighting back (called ganker in faction games), the player becomes with red name, free target to anyone, attacked by guards in anywhere and alot of others penaltys.

- The real pvp is based on clan vs clan war, territory control and castle sieges.

I use L2 as a example because its what i play, but i think theres more games around with equal systems.

IMO,most faction pvp games have alot of wrong concepts:

- I dont want to create a char and hes allready lock to a faction, this is really stupid...

If it is a faction pvp game should be something like HoTK, where u have no faction when start, lvl up untill 40 and then choose wich faction u want to get in (u have 3 to chose), and u can even keep playing without pick one.

- Most of the faction games around is all about personal scores and reward. Alot of ppl play this games like "counter strike" , kill most ppl they can and then make a forum signature to show how "cool" they are.

For me, faction pvp games could be fun if:

- No faction lock when create a char.

- Choose faction should be clan wise.

- the war bettween factions really need some heavy meaning in the world. Conquer lands, castles, citys, fortress, whatever.

HoTK have a nice faction pvp rules but its a extreme heavy p2w game so i had to give up...

-  No auto-path, no auto-travel, no auto group, no auto learning skills, no auto level up, no auto craft, no auto loot, no macros.

-  No instance zones.

-  No factions.

-  No small worlds, just one big world.

-  No ffa anarchy pvp but ffa pvp with some rules. (something like L2 but it could be better)

-  No Personal pvp ranks, only guild/legion/clan/alliance ranks.

-  No global chat (this feature can stay only for few like heros in L2)

- Territory control.

- freedom to go anywhere i want since lvl 1.

Ah yes, allmost forgot: chars and mobs animations must be cool  :)

i dont understand your question. I have been playing several p2p mmos this last few years and never payed for expansions... only the month fee.

Tottaly agree with OP.

I dont play SWTOR, but your description fits in alot of "mmorpgs" around.

the game doesnt need to be a "sandbox" to have a immersive world, devs are just doing "little things" wrong, like auto-travel.

We dont need auto-travel, just give us, right from beggening, something to travel faster then walking/running but controled by us (mount, skill, whatever), and this is applyed to any game around.

linear Themeparks its more easy and safe to devs invest. If we check the most of mmorpgs release  this last years it seams player have less and less freedom of choice.

They just design a path to us, and we follow. even if a game come with some freedom, pach over pach it will disapear.

They treat us like kids who need guidance...

About the pool i didnt vote because i dont agree with none.

I can live with low graphics quality if the game have good features, but cant play a game with bad animations.  And most of the games i see around close to sandbox have horrible animations IMO.

We need devs with balls to make a AAA quality sandbox or sandpark special in PvE wise, because PvP part its more easy in this case.

Originally posted by Naxtor

Imagine if Blizzard decided to make a brand new, huge expansion where your toon would travel to a distant planet and learn "the ways of the Jedi / Sith."  They'd even give you your very own space ship to do this with, which if you like you could use to participate in space battles.

This expansion would have dozens of new zones, new classes, new crafting, new PVP and new end game content.  Similarly, the expansion would upgrade the WoW graphics engine and introduce more physics into gameplay (tossing, kickbacks, etc...) derived from all that fun stuff you loved in ME and ME2.

Sounds awesome, no?

not really.....

So, in the end you playing SWTOR like it was a expansion of WOW?

ok...

Chat is a important connection to virtual world.

In some games global chat dont makes sense, a region/town chat is enouph.

I dont imagine myself playing a mmorpg without some global chat, at least region base.

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Bookah

I can certyainly belive this, as an Aion player for 2 years there were many times we were left high and dry by NC Soft

In fact we were (Prolly still are.) treated like second class citzens after K-aion. In fact the game was so mis-managed most of us left. (To bad impresive game.) Anywho good luck!

This is certainly true, I have yet to see tho, a situation where ppl can be genuinly pissed off and without proper treatment besides design decisions ( game's feedback is based on K-L2 not west ), time of the patches ( they get it first ).

There is very little in this game that you cant take into your own hands to take care of it, botting is only a problem when you are a non factor  leveling  ( I say this not in a bad way and without offense  anyone leveling is by most part non factor unless they belong to a big guild ), after you join one of the big ones you are sorted botting wont be a problem, you can just expel bots from your area easily and farmers usually dont like to mess with the big guilds since they can get screwed. And last but not least you can filter in whoever you want in a good clan, there is no need to care about the random asshole on the street.

Well, you just mention one great thing about this game.

I, as a casual player, never be part of a big clan and never made part of political decisions inside L2. But even im just a little "citizen" doing stuff around the world of L2 with my friends, its very nice when we see big clans wars and how some clans interfear with your experience inside game, sometimes in a good way others not really.

I wish more games have political systems like L2, or even deeper. Sometimes i just imagine the <insert other mmo here> without factions and with a political/war system like this, and im sure i was playing it  :)

Originally posted by Reizla

Originally posted by Jabas

Originally posted by Tdagata61

 

NC sold items to people and then changed what the items do after the fact.

Dont know what u talking about, but if is about they stop the RMT from cash shop was a good change.

QQ more please... The description of the items CLEARLY STATED "can not be traded, sold or destroyed". It was a bug waiting to be fixed. That you (and a lot of other players) were STUPID ENOUGH to buy 100's of soulshot packs and are not stuck with them on a lvl1 sell box (prolly bot since you get kicked automaticlaly after 2 hours) is not NC's proble, but yours since you CLEARLY EXPLOTED a bug to be fixed. 

L2 f2p was a great thing, the world in Aden is alive with lot of ppl. They are having some issues, but im sure things will be fix meanwhile.

I get mad too when i get home and cant logg because server is full, just go do something else and back later...

Hope things get better meanwhile. If theres was other game so good as L2 i change, but there isnt :(

I do have to agree with OP though... botting is a bigger problem now than ever. With no logon queue, bots logon easily during peakhours and won't get kicked (after 2 hours of idle) when the server is on max load, while we (legit players) can't logon easily during peak hours. Last weekend's TW & castle siege are yet again a good example. Members form my clan got a DC and were not able to logon anymore during the whole event.

Aside from that, I am glad L2 is saved from a certain death because of low subscriptions and till I find something better (TERA or C9 most likely) I'll keep playing L2.

Im confuse Reizla, ur answer in red is directed to OP or for me?

my english is not very good, so i might missunderstand this :)

Originally posted by Warriorr

Bot problem was in quite good shape before servers turned into F2P. There was barely any that I could see roaming around for last year or two.

Now with f2p there came big surge of people and sadly most likely bots also. Also the recent event where you got event items by logged in basically and with no restriction about how many accounts you can have, you can imagine the amount of lvl 1 characters standing in starting village just for the event items and thus causing the server being full >_<

Anyways, F2P was nice breath of life to the game, as servers were total of about 3000 players concurrent online. (Naia+Chronos) and now they have 5 servers and where 3 of those gets full every day (~6000 players)

IMO the biggest mistake is features that promote afk users, like mentor system and previous event.

Event is over, now they should change the mentor system.

Originally posted by kevjards

Originally posted by Tdagata61

The game is bogged down with Bots!!!!!

You cant log in most of the time to play.

When you log in you are unable to play because of lag  problems with the Soul Shots. ( 3 weeks now )

I have never seen so many people  unsatisfied in my life.

NC sold items to people and then changed what the items do after the fact.

NC either cant fix this or they wont. I dont know.

This is true and things are worse than you can emagine.

MMORG ..this is a good story.  Investigate it.

LOts of people feel like they have been ripped off by NC.

does'nt bode well for Aion ..un less that game has a way of dealing with that..one thing i dont understand is the term 'bots'.why do people use them ,by that i mean what are they foir..can someone be so kind has to explain?

 

I bealive theres 3 main reasons to bot:

- Gold sellers.

- leveling (some players only want to play at higher lvl).

- Gaether adenas and mats for some player/clan.

NCSoft doesnt do enouph about this matter, never did. But i see some PK teams around killing all bots, wich is amazing seeing some players doing something about it  :)

Originally posted by Tdagata61

The game is bogged down with Bots!!!!!

Bots was allways a problem in L2. In 2007 they ruin my game experience, today not real, i found much more real players then bots (in 2007 was tottaly diferent).

 

You cant log in most of the time to play.

Its true in NAIA and CHRONOS, i can only logg after 22h (gmt+0). But Magmel and Bartz its ok.

 

When you log in you are unable to play because of lag  problems with the Soul Shots. ( 3 weeks now )

Only found that issue in server Bartz, all the others are ok for me.

 

I have never seen so many people  unsatisfied in my life.

Theres some ppl unhappy, but servers are still full of ppl. Even when i can log in NAIA, theres alot of ppl playing around. The world in L2 is alive, this is a good thing.

 

NC sold items to people and then changed what the items do after the fact.

Dont know what u talking about, but if is about they stop the RMT from cash shop was a good change.

 

NC either cant fix this or they wont. I dont know.

This is true and things are worse than you can emagine.

MMORG ..this is a good story.  Investigate it.

LOts of people feel like they have been ripped off by NC.

L2 f2p was a great thing, the world in Aden is alive with lot of ppl. They are having some issues, but im sure things will be fix meanwhile.

I get mad too when i get home and cant logg because server is full, just go do something else and back later...

Hope things get better meanwhile. If theres was other game so good as L2 i change, but there isnt :(

Tera is a game that i want to try and  for me try a game is buy it and play at least a few weeks.

I didnt like reading here that this game is fast leveling.

Plz, dont tell me this game is just one more that is all about "end game at lvl cap" ?

Well, we (addicted mmorpg gamers) that visit forums like this one seeking info about mmo's and discuss about this type of games maybe we dont represent even 0,5% of the ppl playing mmorpg in west market.

So devs dont care about us, we are a very tiny minority in their target audience.

What is wrong imo is the lack of vision in the "mmo" elements. Its very easy to make a fun game in the rpg single player experience or even for the small groups, and profit comes from here.

we are in a virtual world, but the relations is build by humans (at least i bealive its a human behind each player) and here devs must look in a diferent way, let me point one example:

- Freedom:

Freedom doesnt mean anarchy. Freedom to work need rules in real life, and when we speak about players relations in a mmorpg is more about PvP side.  But having rules doesnt mean we take the possibility of the players making their choise.

Devs should let the player make his choise and then face the consequences for his action.

- In RL can i pick a weapon, go to street and kill the 1st person i found?

- yes.

- Will i have to face the consequences for my action?

- yes.

This is a small example, but can make a huge diference in mmorpg experience. i dont agree with anarchy (every player do what ever they want to others  without consequences), but freedom means that i as a player can take decisions and then have consequences.

Im not very good with english, so sometimes is not easy show my idea/opinion, i hope i was clear enouph  :)

Well, its 10m per month.

Its dificult to know the player base with this numbers because this money dont come only from subs. Other think we cant forget is alot of ppl sub for 1 year to get the rewards.

10m/13 = 769k, so maybe around 400-600k players this last 10months?

Anyway, gratz Trion for that. The game is not for me but seams they are doing a good job 

Edit: Nepha was faster then me  :)

Im happy for you, "veteran mmorpg gamer"...