Originally posted by Darthtrigger

Sounds interesting indeed.....maybe there running on the heels of the greatest cyberpunk rpgs ever made

Got me all excited there for a second when I thought you might be referring to Cyberpunk 2020!

Reading the OP's article makes me happy though to see this. I like my cyberpunk sci-fi closer to Gibson and PK Dick.

As much as I loved SWG I don't see how people can claim it belongs on this list. I'd even be leery of adding Matrix on this list. Both games made it to launch and had time to compete. SWG competed fairly well against other MMO's, despite the CU. NGE killed the more fickle of the fanbase. MxO never had anything that kept people playing either. I was in beta for that and never could stand to play for long.

The list above isn't about whining about why the game you currently love isn't getting more attention, but games that never got a chance. TCoS belongs on that list for sure. Dominus, not sure as very little was known or seen of the game. WISH would definitely be on that list (but could be because I played in beta.) Imperator was a game I was dying to see finished, but was killed for a lackluster WAR. Conceptually (not sure if anyone remembers this) Dragon Empires had fantastic PvP potiential both with combat and politics.

I have never understood the appeal of this type of art. All the focus on how the game looks means the gameplay is about as rewarding as playing Chutes & Ladders with a 5 year old. I imagine the sound effects would be similar.

Sadly, darker themed games tend to be viewed as niche markets. At least with the mentality of MMO designers. With the increasing viewpoint of developers and publishers that we're just consumers as opposed to gamers niche games will be harder to find. I'd also love a dark and gritty game like what you're looking for (though I wouldn't mind a well done dark fantasy.)

Aside from TSW the only games I've come across that are remotely close would be Neocron (as mentioned) and maybe Fallen Earth. FE's got the post-apocalyptic bleakness somewhat covered. Hellgate might be a choice too, though it's far from perfect.

Side note - There's a Wasteland sequel in the works.

Um, they're referring to EvE Online. (Someone had to say it...)

Other games, free and sort of sci fi, that are possibilities would be RF Online (which has robots - sort of) and Argo Online.

Originally posted by Crake_1

Guild Wars has what you're looking for. It's old, though, not so many people playing anymore. 

Guild Wars 2 will have this as well. No release date, but betas are taking place through March and April, and the level of polish is already very high. So a Q3 release is possible.

Huh? I still play GW and it's been fairly decent pop for awhile now. Not like hugely overcrowded, but the only time I've been on and it's remotely dead would be very late at night.

Still, what has been mentioned is best bet: GW has a very fun Necro. I play a minion bomber and a curse/hex necro. GW2 will see me playing a necro again.

I've heard EQ necro is fun, but I can't get past the graphics for some reason. And a lot of people have been recommending Vanguard.

I am kind of in a similar situation as the OP. Essentially the same age and I played in SWG from beta till NGE and then off and on after that. For now, there are pretty much no games with what you're looking for. Even the old games have made changes to draw the newer types of gamer and online gaming of any kind draws out the idiot in anyone. Immaturity will always be a part of online gaming so deal with it. The only way I got through WoW when I played was by playing with RL friends. Otherwise, suck it up and ignore whom you can if you find something to amuse you, even temporarily, while you wait for "that game" to come around again.

Look into ArchAge. It's a wait for now, but seems to have what you might be looking for. Ryzom and Istaria aren't graphic powerhouses, but the communities are decent and gameplay is complex for certain things. Both games are okay being niche games so there won't be any 'NGE' moments in either.

Lastly, I'll bite. I wouldn't compare MMO's to 'American music.' Firstly, that's a shallow comment. Mainstream music is the same pretty much worldwide. Every country has an equal amount of vapid music, that is supposedly massively enjoyed, of which to be ashamed. For every Bieber and Katy Perry there's a Kerli and... ugh, the entirety of Dubstep (thanks a lot England.)

Something that makes me curious... Why, after all these years since launch for both games, is this still a debate? They are two different games for the most part. I've played both and was not entranced by either. The only reason I played to 'endgame' (how I loathe that term) in WoW as opposed to never making it past 20 something in EQ2 is I had friends I played with in WoW. Which, incidentally, is the only reason I played WoW in the first place.

EQ2 had it's own following when it launched. The EQ players hated it. WoW was announced and everyone had to choose a side. I never did. I play a game for my own reasons and interests, not because it was a [insert mmo title] -killer. I will give this much: WoW, for all it's flaws, is more polished and accessible than EQ2 and always will be. Those 'high quality' videos you posted show a lot of sad clipping and blasé animations.

There's no need for a WoW killer. WoW will kill itself eventually. People will find new games. (Emphasis on new.) If you like a game, just say so! If you want to find people to play your game of choice then ask. Otherwise, why is this fanboy nerdgasm in LFG forum?

Now if you'll excuse me I'll go back to fiancée raging over her math homework while I try to find a different game to play until GW2 and TSW comes out.

/forumgreybeardrant

Global Agenda robotics class was kind of cool. You can drop turrets for dps, there's a healing turret, and eventually you can 'build' a giant suit kind of like the mechs from the last Matrix movie.

Not sure about the fps aspect, but S.T.A.L.K.E.R Online is in development.

Given your opinions on games so far I don't think you'll like GW much. If you so play: Skip the RP character creation and go for the PvP option. Puts you right a lvl cap. As a WoW player that alone should intrique you.

I'm getting the impression you don't like games with graphics that aren't WoW-like. ie: cartoony. Nothing wrong with that; just a matter of taste.

You never stated why you need a new game. If WoW is your litmus why leave it then?

If I had my preference on setting it would be something horror related. Sadly, that is not exactly easy to pull off in an MMO setting. Darker-tinged fantasy/sci-fi/'modern' settings can be all that's best to hope for. That topic is best for another thread though...

Eve... I want to like it. I do, but I can't. I've tried it out over the years and the incredibly slow progression kills it for me. For space type games I think my favorite was SWG:JTL. I think the only game that comes close to that would be STO, but for reason I can't convince myself to try it - and not because I prefer SW! Heh.

I tend to fall in the trap of hearing free games get killed [read:imbalanced] at some point with a cash shop and lose interest and wonder if I'm gimping myself out of a game. Free/sub whatever, but I want to be able to enjoy all aspects of a game.

My fiancée got me to try EQ during SOE's "We're sorry we got hacked" 45-day extravaganza. It was okay and the graphics weren't too horrible, but my biggest issue with btoh EQ games was in order to play a character you have to have a skillbar with something like 40+ skills. That all have to be used. I hate that. I love GW's skill usage. It requires tactics on choosing the right skills for how you play your class. Especially in regards to pvp. Spellborn was kind of like that too. I don't mind having skills, but half your screen taken up by skill slots/excessive gui kills the immersion for me. My opinion only.

Funny you mention that as I did beta Rift and the Chloromancer was one of the classes I enjoyed a lot. It felt a bit repetitious (game overall) so I didn't stick with it too much afterwards.

That class and the Zealot are reasons I've considered Rift and WAR again, but I'm leery of both atm.

Okay, I find myself here again instead of playing games lurking on a forum hoping to find something to catch my interest. As of yet I haven't found anything that just screams "PLAY ME!" At least, nothing that's out yet. I am really, really looking forward to GW2 and TSW (and hoping my expectations are at least partially met,) but for the moment I find myself 'MMOHomeless.'

I have played a lot of games. I have beta tested a lot of games too. Particularly when beta testing meant actively looking for bugs - I miss that. My first graphical MMO was SWG. I started in beta and subbed until just before NGE. I even went back off and on. To me, even with the mess of NGE (which did get a little better) it will still be the ONLY [true] Star Wars MMO. Game hopping around I ended up playing WoW, starting during BC, at the behest of friends. I played until Cata. There were things I liked and didn't like about WoW. Which leads me to asking for help in finding a new game.

Ever hear of Skinner's Box? Basically it's the direction game developers have taken MMOs. It's the gear grind. It's the reason designers create these cool worlds with interesting lore and content... and then push you to ignore it all in a drive towards 'endgame.' It is the reason for my biggest complaint against Blizzard/WoW. This is also what creates the "content locust" gamers mentioned on an MMORPG article a while back. I realise I won't escape it, not truly, but I want to try or at least find something on my own terms that I can get a little fun out of while I wait for the next batch of games.

tl;dr (get to the point.)

I want to find a game that has the type of character I enjoy playing. In all the mmo's I've played I enjoy support/dps roles. For example: WoW Warlock (both Demo and Affliction,) SWG Ranger and Combat Medic, WAR Zealot, etc... I also like secondary healers. I got pretty good at resto-shaman in WoW. Yes, I'm the guy people look at when the raid leader is screaming "MOAR DoTS!" Only I'm also "MOAR HoTS!" So... Any good games with classes/skills like that? Lots of DoT-based dps or HoT/AoE healing? I don't want to go back to WoW and I'm skeptical about WAR. I enjoyed Allods originally, but I keep hearing the cash shop ruins it later on (I only got lvl20-ish.) P2p or f2p doesn't matter.

*edit* I only ask no mention of SWToR - Did not enjoy that when I was in beta at all.

Originally posted by BCuse

star wars galaxies pre-nge. hasnt been anything even close to it since.

This. Best skill system I've ever come across in a released game.

An unfortunate game that died in beta was Wish that had an interested skill-based system. DFO has something similar, but the huge (and playable) difference was that in Wish there wasn't a chance of bland amorphous character builds. You could train up a lot of skills, but no one could be everything.

Originally posted by magda15

After all I can say, that all PW games, have so horrible regen, that w/o investing in pots u cant play.

And RS, in tutorial there were thing, that I can do, now Im cclicking and nothing ;/

• Solo friendly (you want to summon 'friends/party members'.)
• Instant mana/hp regen.
• Completely free and unaffected by cash shop.
• High end, or near to high end graphics.
• AOE mob grinding (For, I'm assuming, easier rep/gear gains)
• Fairly simple gameplay

'Ambivalent to PvP' means one doesn't care either way about it. Darkfall is a bad recommendation. While it may be sort of open world it is still an MMO equivalent to Team Fortress2 - with the usual mentality of players, BUT, that is my opinion.

For the OP I think Vanguard will be the best choice for the moment. It meets most of what you're looking for and should run on yor rig. It ran on my laptop just fine with decent graphics. There is depth of play and good character customization both in terms of looks and 'class.' There are multiple ways to play the game (crafter, diplomat, soldier of fortune, what have you..) It wasn't for me personally. I can't put my finger on it, but I just couldn't get into the game.

I am very story driven when I play games. I don't mind the gamplay and ignore whether something is 'sandpark' or 'themepark.' I don't even like those terms as they aren't wholly appropriate and are grossly over-used today by most gamers. I go to Cedar Point or a 6 Flags park and I don't complain that I'm being lead around from ride to ride. I went there for the rides. If a game doesn't have good lore to get into it should have something else that makes it playable - preferably more than once. With a good group of like minded gamers/friends any game can be enjoyable. I played WoW for a couple years and only put up with it (I HATE the model of the game - rush to endgame and grind raids/gear) because I had good friends to play with. Find a good group of roleplayers and, again, any game can have a story.

I'm burnt out at the moment and lamenting it. I find more wrong with current games than I can find reasons to play one. Secret World and GW2 intrigue me (I still play GW off and on,) but I haven't found anything I can play or recommend personaly. For what you're looking for honestly I'd say Vanguard, give Conan a second try, but find good company to play with, or wait and see what the new crop of games brings.

The problem with "no grinding games" is, to an extent, all games have grind. It depends on how you play any given game.

However, if you want pvp right from the start I'd reccommend Guild Wars. At character creation you can choose a pvp character with is max lvl and pvp ready. Tweaking it beyond that is up to you. Pvp is fairly fun, I thought, but I did an rp character and "grinded" my way to max. Almost exclusively quests.

Other than that, maybe Global Agenda? Or games like Halo/TF2. You can get all the pvp you want with fps.