Thinking most of the people already saying WAR is a great game are bored with WoW, thought WoW sucked to begin with, are general Warhammer/DAoC fans, or think WoW sucks like it does. It set the bar, it raised the standards. Now it's been lowering the standards, but still raising the bar.


WoW is is a jaded cartoon that pokes fun at most of other media with in-game easter eggs and references. (Once you really look at it, WoW has taken quite a bit from other people).

WAR is a TV show with aspiring actors that pokes fun at itself. (Tome of Knowledge has a lot of wierd things.)

Suppose that'd be better. But as I've not played DAoC but never scoffed it - tried the Trial, not bad for an older MMO by our standards - I can't say much. Never really liked WoW's Rogues to begin with unless I was on the side of all the money for once.

Oh, part to my pain of stealth and rogues comes from the fact most of their abilities will have a chance of limiting your movement somehow. Poison in general and then stuns based on how much you love shiv.

And I looked around and I don't think Warhammer is gonna have stealth unless they made a last minute snap decision.

Fair enough. Even if there is, I can't see anything but the weakest of melee DPS classes bothering it. And it could never be like WoW's horridly retarded stunlocking. If a rogue can burn you down without letting you move or cast anything but Blink or a spell that makes you the Holy Spirit In A Bubble...

Truthfully I expect WoW with shadows to look like WoW without shadows. Regardless of it now, I've been blinded by the shapes and shades of land. Does sound interesting but it's not much to me now. Thinking a cartoon with shading only becomes wierd anime.

EDIT: I reviewed the video among others and I can say it's pretty much the same thing only with an option to see if you want super-distinct shadows of everything solid displayed on the ground depending on where the sun that changes colors is. It's nice, and fluid. But after all the beta videos I'm not impressed. I feel like a nay-sayer and by now I think I have said my fill.

It was day two or partly into day three for me and I was at 57% when the computer went on the fritz and decided there was no possible fix other than a reboot. So the download was reset to nothing. Started again and I'll be late for the Open Beta anyhow.

I just hope that when I get home than damn machine still isn't trying to download at speeds ranging .1 kb/s to 9.8 kb/s which was all I saw for a long time. Definately not a very 'cool' approach to downloading something like this in my opinion. Selfish, yes, but I'd rather have the download box that I waited to see for a half hour say "12 hours 32 minutes until download complete" rather than ranging from "3d 14h" to "1y 28w".

Couldn't be worse than WoW. Hell, even AoC's limited, classically glitchy combat was more fun than WoW's to me.

Seal of Command - STUN! - Justice! - Crusader Strike - dance around, do it again with Avenging Wrath up.

Frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt, frost nova, jump, jump, frostbolt, frostbolt, blink, frostbolt, win - ambushed by Druid in catform for almost 4k, struggle, struggle, lose.

Or just do the respectable thing and keep questing while those open-world PvP objectives are being dominated again by a rogue, a hunter, and a roguehealertank class made by God. Yep. Those three places completely isolated from the towns and actual areas of interest covered in flags sure are important for about... 5% extra killing ability.

I'm just happy there won't be any gimped form of or at least overpowered form of becoming randomly invisible in a lighted room with no shadows - oh, about those shadows? Warhammer actually has 'em.

I believe it was day three and a glitch pulled me over at 57% and caused it to restart. That's beautiful.

Should have trust mirrored sites with http downloads. This god damn Torrent trash... Effective for large groups, but not really!

It feels funny reading through all of this and still seeing a banner-ad for AoC at the bottom of the site.

Failcom: I think by now, with all things pulled into perspective, that this game is notably one of the few worst failures of the gaming day and age. I don't mean since Vanguard, Mourning, Dark And Light; I mean since the old Atari/Intelevision days with the E.T. game.

I'll explain that, more openly. AoC has - or had potential. The plot wasn't bad, and the environment of a brutal, bloody world where most of the women are either wenches or amazonian war-maidens isn't much to complain about. Most of the quests were intuitive enough, and the visuals were refreshing, even if they weren't all that was promised. It was a good game, if you could deal with its other flaws.

Then there came the mechanics that would set it apart. Cities? An amazing idea. Let's make inspirational looking cities that offer bonuses to our guild's players. Too bad it was a little easy from what I heard, and most of the other impliments of having a city - sieging and being sieged - were bare. Ah, that brings PvP - or... maybe not? What PvP? I say that with true inflection of a question, not a sharp distaste. I for one don't care for PvP so I didn't mind it. But still - it was offered and that's what people were looking for.

It is a funny idea: who else wouldn't mind coming back with help to chop off that bloody piker of a fifteen year old's head who happened to roll Bear Shaman and danced on your corpse?

But the essence of the matter is the deception. And I say that gingerly. We may have bought into it, ranging from a lot to a little, but who's fault is who's is moot at the end of the day. They failed to follow through on the game's promises that a lot of people paid for and would probably still look forward to seeing. And there were a lot of promises. I won't list em again, everyone already knows them. But the NDA hesitation, the lying-through-the-teeth at interviews, the grand ordeal of the forum and its humorous closure for getting criticism? I hoped AoC could do better than gamble it's way dishonestly into plausible AO rating and banktrupcy, just so something more intuitive would come along rather than basic WoW (as it has become, agreeingly).

Originally posted by DapperBantam

That "patch" method no longer works, unfortunately. I wish I would have done it last night when it did work.

Ah, well... Goddamnit.

That'd explain things. I suppose I'll leave the computer running for a week then.

Getting really sick of a .4 KB/S download speed for just the initial patcher stuff and the whole thing earlier.

This is the first use of a torrent and honestly I can't see why it wouldn't be prudent for a second choice of doing something less stressful and whole-week-longish. This can be solved, I'm sure, but I've no idea how. None of the instructions I've found I can carry through.

At this point I don't give a damn about the NDA, I need this thing installed. Won't be home the next week and I'd like to make sure things are done before I go. And frankly this thing pisses me off.

In my opinion, most of the bickering yesterday was both foolish and repulsive to read. Several valid points were made and several utterly matterless ones were as well. It swayed from the defense and support of the Recruit-A-Friend Program's revamp to defending WoW in general. The new program is intuitive and interesting - and it does make good for getting new and lower level characters (alts of the recruiter) up to that anticipated level. Doing it all once on a Rogue and realizing that your guild has all rogues and no tank or healer... Encouraging that desperate power-level to make sure some guilds are well-equipped, among other similiar scenarios. It has it's bonuses.

The politics of the decision (of course everyone knows what that means) doesn't matter to me all that much, but I figure it was made at least to some degree because a plausibly better success than AoC is coming that might (or already has) taken some playerbase - not ALL of the playerbase as most of the diehard-forum Warhammer fans here are sadly assuming. It was said before: profit. If it is a 'cheap' ploy to gain more players from the new additional countries to the game's already endless playerbase, it certainly is cheap. The free month and a lot of bonuses? If I weren't already switching away, I'd be quite psyched about something like that.

Just trying to be open about the decision. I'm still in that WoW = Waiting on Warhammer mindset.

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More on to the people too focused with the politics: I do find it funny and stupid when people say "WAR will crush WoW" - you know those people are disgruntled ex-players. Denied by a GM, ganked repeatedly, cybering partner copped out and reported everything on the forums; so on. WAR won't come close to beating WoW in short terms. A long time from now, maybe, if Mythic doesn't botch this. But WAR will be a ridiculously good game. Better than most of the other games coming out these days of the genre. It is my hope that my new favorite game of 2008-2009 becomes an MMO superpower alongside WoW - agreeingly siding with WoW's most defensive player.

Originally posted by Monorojo

Why is it so hard for people to understand that the lvl cap in OB is COMMON PRACTICE for MMOs? LOTRO, EQ2, WoW, ect... have all done it. This is not exclusive to AoC, this happens in the majority of MMOs.

Is it really that hard to get?

No, not really that hard to get. So long as you're not saying AoC was in any form redeemable.

I have read and reviewed most of the posts here and surprised that there aren't as many trolls as I suspected, having been started by one. I trust Mythic (regardless of EA) to have a thoroughly well done game from launch. They've tried so hard from the very beginning to inform the public what major strides they've had. The monthly podcasts began to be more interesting than WoW's patches, for God's sake.

It's been said before here: nothing could be worse than AoC's launch. Paul'd say it himself: "Evil Marketing." And even if the end-game isn't completely done like most games, I don't care. Most of us have seen a visible effort to make the game better through Closed Beta, why sh*t their pants after Open Beta and giggle at us like immature babies? Naw. Takes trust and I'm happy I got some, much like others here.

I've not been in any testing or developing of the game thus far. Just an avid listener and watcher. I'm trying to keep my mind neutral on the subject so I don't overglorify or overpredict a game that's not out, but... Really, it couldn't matter now. Personally just hate WoW now and never found a fancy from any other MMO.

Waiting on Warhammer.

First post, I know. Whatever.

I've not played Vanguard and as it has been said before on this very forum topic that they've had no marketing and only those who are already die-hard will know - I have no intention of even studying it. Heard bad hype, still hear bad hype - but I won't dis it any further.

I've been watching closesly, from leaked Youtube stuff and off the website itself and I'm actually impressed lately with the way Warhammer looks. I was a bit distasteful before, showing most of the landscape looked meshy and jagged, and I don't mind the jaggedness after some of the sucky things I've played before - but I'm seeing that Warhammer looks better in Beta than WoW does right now.

In the seriousness factor at least. Bless AoC for trying to make a game that caters to someone so utterly sick of the cartoonishness and the downright strange. Screw them for screwing most of their first players over. At least Warhammer looks like it has the grit to support the fact a war happens to be raging across the whole game. I love WoW and always will, picked it up not too long after release so it had been polished a bit and finalized. Two 70s (BE Paladin and Human Mage) that got locked at 70 with no raiding guild and no desire to PvP.

Not to preach about RvR, I'm keeping the point short here. As a long term WoW player, having sampled a bit of everything, Warhammer can't be - in a small sense of the word - 'worse' than WoW. It won't topple it, of course, unless Paul Barnett happens to be Jesus' uncle, but it's not worse. It's in different class. While both WoW and WAR are [probably] going to be linear, at least WAR is taking the chance for something new and innovative. Keeping you pumped - hooked on the idea of struggling for the world. WoW never captured that in my time playing, except those direly long old AV battles they got rid of.

 WoW = Waiting on Warhammer.