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All Posts by SlyLoK

All Posts by SlyLoK

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1317 posts found

Originally posted by JackCracker411

Originally posted by Dullahan
Anyone that thinks 100k is high for a game like Pantheon is out of touch with the genre or what this game is planning to be.  The only reason an EQ remake wouldn't pull 100k easy is if they simply fail to deliver on promises or produce a Vanguard launch quality product.  EQ had nearly half a million back when there was less than 1/10th of the people on the internet.  People have been calling for a return to that type of game since SOE began mutating EQ into a themepark, and that niche has millions of potential players.  Not claiming that they'll all jump on board with Pantheon, but 100k is peanuts if they manage to get funded and make a solid game.

It's impossible to gauge really.  Just have to build it and see.  When you say "people have been calling for a return to that type of game"... that is true.. some people.  Impossible to say how many.  


One thing I believe... it will not be a meteoric rise.  I doubt there will be 100k people lining up to get on board out of the gate.  I think they can hit decent numbers if they deliver... but I think it will be a slow build up.  I have nothing to back up these claims.. just my personal feelings on it.  

I agree that it will be a slow rise. A polished release likely will rise faster but if it is a raw release like I expect it may take several months to get going.

Originally posted by Fractal_Analogy

Originally posted by JackCracker411
Originally posted by Dullahan
Anyone that thinks 100k is high for a game like Pantheon is out of touch with the genre or what this game is planning to be.  The only reason an EQ remake wouldn't pull 100k easy is if they simply fail to deliver on promises or produce a Vanguard launch quality product.  EQ had nearly half a million back when there was less than 1/10th of the people on the internet.  People have been calling for a return to that type of game since SOE began mutating EQ into a themepark, and that niche has millions of potential players.  Not claiming that they'll all jump on board with Pantheon, but 100k is peanuts if they manage to get funded and make a solid game.

It's impossible to gauge really.  Just have to build it and see.  When you say "people have been calling for a return to that type of game"... that is true.. some people.  Impossible to say how many.  


One thing I believe... it will not be a meteoric rise.  I doubt there will be 100k people lining up to get on board out of the gate.  I think they can hit decent numbers if they deliver... but I think it will be a slow build up.  I have nothing to back up these claims.. just my personal feelings on it.  


What is impossible to guage?


Do you not understand that people have been tracking MMO-space metrics and numbers, some use them as thesis for their PHD. There are firms that consult with the SOE, Blizzard, TRION, etc. There are also charts dating back to before EQ's time. So it is easy to spot the newbies, from those who have weathered some tough projects & failures.

The #'s I have focused on are based on well tunneled metrics. A game like Pantheon @ $25/month will support 250,000 people within it's second year. (That doesn't mean Pantheon will be $25/month.)


In all honesty, if word gets out this is "it"..?

Some old guilds will dust themselves off and make it worthwhile. So if this Visionary Realms Development Team can stick to their tenets & keep their DNA pure, with a good release + word of mouth, I see no reason why Pantheon couldn't support 500,000 subscribers by its 3rd year. And quite frankly, that is all the subscribers VR will ever need. EVE is a good example of the direction EQ3/Pantheon is going.

A game like Pantheon doesn't need a crown, when it is a jewel.



Pantheon will never be about the "price of the game" when you wife is leaving you for the 2nd time, or you've lost a job, or flunked out a semester, etc. Have you ever had any of that type of e-crack injected into you for 36 months?

On a similiar note, the EQ Progression server (ragefire) is firing up this week, & is already full? 

Not only that, but SOE/Daybreak just made an alliance with the EQ-emulator Project1999, because they were due to release Kunark, and the EQ emulator has 50K registrants. SOE/Daybreak didn't want P99 interfering with the release of Daybreak's new EQ Progressions server. All oldschool EQ action in the present day.

Then you have the Vanguard Emulator Project, which is fascinating & growing.


Many rally around Brad (& see threw his faults), because he is a dedicated Artisan. He creates worlds and drops you off in them. His Vision is the reason these people have EQ & VG emulators. He is a visionary and forward thinker. The base mechanics to his games are outstanding & quite deep. Unmatched thus far in the industry in both EQ & VG.

Once you have a taste of his vision, it is hard to put it down.



edit: Hey Joe Cracker, Pantheon is not a niche game. It is a Premium MMORPG. 250k is a small group, it is doubtful you are one of the few people who will play.

Hate to break it to you but Brad and his devs have already said that Pantheon is a niche game. However that doesnt mean that it cannot grow beyond that which I think it will especially if they dont do something stupid like decide on a $25 a month subscription. Otherwise it isnt going to do better than 15k-25k if even that much.. Nowhere near your 250k prediction at that price.. If 250k would do $25 a month dont you think the old premium EQ1 server they had wouldnt have been a complete failure? If 250k would do $25 wouldnt you think many thousands would have done $50 a month for the premium EQ1 server? That didnt happen. It was a complete flop from the beginning.

It is tough enough as it is at $15 a month for an MMO to get and hold 250k players. 

I am as big a fan as any when it comes to the EQ style of game but I am not going to be delusional and predict massive success instantly. The market for this style of game is most likely smaller than it was 5 - 10 - 15 years ago because people that were into it then got older and likely have a family or other responsibilities now and may not want or be able to dedicate the time that would be needed. Others between then and now may have only ever played EQ2 or WoW or FF or WAR etc. They may not be interested in a time consuming game.

Speaking in absolutes as you are will just get you into trouble and possibly cause you to look foolish. Be careful.

Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by SlyLoK

I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.

If it releases and actually is in better shape then Vanguard I would pay 25 bucks as well.

I do however think that price would turn off some players but since it seems to be going for old school players who used to play EQ and similar games I think most of us can afford it.

The game have potential, that is clear. My worries is just if they actually can release it and do so in an acceptable shape. If they do succeed I will be in and so will at least some of my old guildies from way back.

It doesnt matter if someone can afford it or not. It would be a horrible business decision. I want another EQ as much as anyone but it just wouldnt make any sense. I just wonder why a fan would want to put up a wall to keep a game from growing as it could.. I dont understand that mentality.


Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by JackCracker411
I'm behind Pantheon.  I am very much looking forward to it's release.  I will be playing the EQ progression server to hold me over until then.  However... I think you are overly optimistic about how well this game is going to perform.  If they get 200K subs... I would be very impressed.  I would consider that a HUGE success.  But.. there's no way they are doing that at $25 a month.  That's a big paywall.  I make good money too.. and I still wouldn't pay that.  Mostly on principle.  Personally... $15 is the max for me.  And I feel that they should go even lower.  Somewhere between $5.99 and $9.99.  They probably won't.. but that's just my opinion on the sub fee.  I think that the closer you get to $5.99... the more likely people are going to setup recurring billing and just forget about it.  Even if they take a hiatus from the game.  

Lol $5.99?  An MMO priced at that tells me they aren't offering something valuable.  Next you are going to just suggest they go F2P and beg for scraps with a cash shop.

Its a big IF, but IF they deliver on their promises, Pantheon will have the unique position of being the only classic mmorpg on the market.  There isn't anything even remotely like classic EQ or oldschool games out there.  People will be throwing money at them if they do it justice.  Not suggesting it should be more than the average sub fee, but most people who are interested in that type of game will gladly pay $25 a month.  The ONLY reason they shouldn't mark the price higher is to appeal to a larger market.  Players on the fence after the free trial may find a higher sub the excuse they need not to sub.

I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.

This game better not be cancelled. It looks so good.

I want this game to be made as I am a big fan of a slower play style. However I would be surprised if they get more than 10k-15k subscribers at first.. Now if over the course of the following 6-12 months after release they can polish up the game and add features and content I could see that rising to ~25k.

To me I think the PvE MMO market is underutilized right now. Just about every game has some form of PvP and some are mainly PvP. I think if they can release a polished game and grow it from there it could be a big success.

However they have to be careful about listening to those that want a higher subscription fee because they think it somehow will make the game better.. It wont. What it will do is make sure the game is nothing more than a small niche title no matter how good the game turns out to be. Quite honestly it should be $9.99 at the start and then $12.99 and then $14.99 depending on the state of the game and its progression.

Hopefully they can get an investor soon or do another kickstarter once they flesh out U5 a bit more and get some new animations. The current animations would probably put off a lot of people.

I will probably buy in once they announce a public alpha date. Until then I am in wait and see mode.

The guy with the accent needs to troll more of these fishy projects. Funny stuff!
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by rojoArcueid
Dungeons (public and instanced) are supossed to be scary and dangerous. ZoS need to make public dungeons non soloable. Anyone can enter, but nobody can beat it alone. Thats how it shoul be. Once some people gather inside they will have to work together or die alone.

If that's the case then players like me would skip them.  I've skipped every group dungeon up till VR5 and I aint about to start backtracking now to finish them.  Remove any inventive to enter public dungeons solo and they no longer become public dungeons instead they become non-instanced group dungeons with shittier rewards.  Quit trying to force players to play by your rules!

I would probably lean toward them be more " easily " soloable.  Take down the bosses to 1 pip instead of 2 pip and then maybe have a single main boss there that would need a group to take down.

Though the topic was never meant to turn into " I can solo it so it doesnt matter " discussion. More about how less social MMOs have become in recent years. 

Originally posted by thundercles
Guys please do a more professional setup next time. Cat waking around, mics not working, the level you showed was the one that comes with the unity player. Respect for doing this but you got to do better to build confidence. Just have Joel make a video and answer questions through twitch or something.

Are you serious? Wow.

Did they already abandon the " heroic " look and feel that they wanted the races to have? I dont see any giant chins , huge cheekbones , ripped muscles or giant hands and feet.

Better off if so IMO.

Servers are finally back up.

I cant even care about this game anymore. I want to but I cant. They focus on the wrong things and expect players to accept it. Sure there are boot lickers that accept everything just like any other game would have but it is getting ridiculous now.

The islands are even smaller now after being " improved ". I cant imagine what will happen once OB arrives with each island not being able to handle very many claims before getting to clustered... Hundreds of servers on a list no doubt. Or when players struggle to get on a island with friends / get materials and pve due to being cramped.. Stupid.

They decided achievements were more important than polishing up building mechanics and adding shapes ( the templates they added are far to clunky to use ).  More important than core mechanics.

The " big update " ... Hah.

Still no player merchants. They were due several months ago.

Tree harvesting was supposed to visually improve a year ago. Never did.

The lands are still void of any life besides the few mobs and I think those only spawn in caves now. Where are the Deer , Birds , Squirrels , Bears etc? No life of any kind.

Combat hasnt been touched since it came in many months ago. The only thing they tweaked was mob damage.

AI is still terrible.

They went so far as to call the ocean a new biome after they made a few ocean props. How stupid do they think their players are? The few boot lickers not included of course.


I cant even bring myself to give feedback anymore. They dont listen. I could go on an on. It doesnt matter. I am finally done.

Seamless is overrated IMO.

I have no problems with a game that uses zones. I have had more fun exploring in GW2 and ESO than I have just about any other game and they use zones. I can run around a zone in ESO for 2+ hours and not even notice. As long as each zone is of good size and has things to do and find its fine IMO.

And this is why I was hoping for a video.

1. Keeps the hate down.

2. Screenshots can be doctored.

3. There was a good bit of talk about how much better the game looks and we just get a single screenshot.

Originally posted by NomadMorlock
Seen tons on imperial city already. It's done and ready to go and I would bet that it launches less than 60 days after console launch. After that I'm betting one DLC every 60 days or so through fall.   

It probably depends on how many issues they have with the console launch. If it is just server stability issues we may see them sooner. But if they have to spend a month or 2 dealing with other issues it may be longer.

I think the megaserver would have been a lot better had they not included phasing. I am personally not a fan of a single player story line in an MMO. One of these days maybe we will see a game world change based off of how the community interacts with the world / quests.
The AI is BDs weakest area. It is probably the worst out of any game out there. 
Originally posted by Arskaaa
Just city or zone with quests?

I havent paid to much attention to the IC details ( I dont PvP at all ) but I think it is supposed to be ESOs version of Darkness Falls from DAoC. 

I am currently leveling up a character that is doing all crafts at once. It is interesting and fun at the same time.
I would probably drop $15 for a month to try it out if there were no box price. I think a lot of these games should do what Pantheon plans to do and not have a box price but just a monthly fee with a free trial by hours or level 10 or something.

I think all the extra polish is what makes the game feel different. 

For the most part all of the negativity that seemed to go around was based around it not being exactly like Skyrim , 3 Factions ( uneasy alliances more like it judging by some quests ) and just biased hate that all new games get anymore. It was sad to see so many people brought down by it.. You have guys like Angry Joe that started out enjoying himself then all of a sudden does a 180 due to the person he played with constantly putting the game down every chance they got. Now that went to many of his fans and now they thought ( think ) the game is bad.

I think it is great some people are starting to see that ESO is a darn good game. IMO about as close as you can get of a cross between a great single player franchise and an MMO.

I prefer ESO out of those 3.

I cant put my finger on it but I found TERA extremely boring.

Neverwinter plays pretty well but the cash shop gets on my nerves so I stopped playing it awhile ago. This was before they reigned in the custom content exploits for easy rewards. On top of that 99.9% of them were really bad anyway.

ESO fits my playstyle really well. It really fits my exploration needs and the pace of the game feels nice to me. I also think the art and world design is right at the top with vanilla WoW. 

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