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All Posts by SlyLoK

All Posts by SlyLoK

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Phasing is the only thing about ESO that I do not like. I am not sure why devs think they need to have players feel like they are changing the world.. It is an MMORPG with many other players. There needs to be a system in place to where it takes that into account IF you want the world to change around the players. Phasing as ESO does it causes more issues than its worth.

For an example.. A village has constant trouble being attacked  - you can help or not help. Lets say after passing X percentage of the playerbase NOT helping the town if overran and burnt to the ground. Done. Everyone can see. Some villagers escaped and vow to retake the town and rebuild. The players behind you can choose to help their cause or not. After reaching X percentage of players choosing to help and now the village is rebuilt for everyone to see.

Now players move on to exterminate the attackers and stop the attacks if they so choose. Doing so will cause the attacks to stop BUT eventually attacks another threat will rise against that village. Bandits werent attacking because they were scared of the Minotaurs / Centaurs or whatever but when those are stopped then the Bandits start attacking. Or the forest nearby has undead problems at night and those begin attacking.

The single player story in MMOs is dumbest thing to add into the game. It should be about the community not about your character.


Ehh. When any company asks for money to access their alpha / closed beta game instead of paying me to test that mess is the time when that game / devs / fans can no longer hide behind the " its alpha " or " closed beta " shield. If you can accept money then you can accept criticism. Plain as day.

Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by KaitarBesh


I think f2p -can- be a life saver for some games. SWTOR for instance.  RIFT for another.  LOTRO for a third (though there's gloom and doom currently about the longevity of the game, still, f2p did keep it running this long and may keep it running longer since there are solid talks of Mordor and all that in the works).  EQ2 is another I can think of, and there are more. I also like to, personally, use f2p as a "trial run" to see if I'm going to bother to sub to the game.  For instance, a couple of months ago I re-installed and tried ESO again. Well, I played for a few days and realized I still didn't like the game or the public dungeon system...and wasted 15 bucks on it.  Meh.


Can I set something straight here. LOTRO did not go free to play to "save it" like people like to claim.

They have said outright that they weren't in dire straights but that's how some choose to remember history though it isn't true.


Paiz repeated Turbine's stance that the developer didn't change its business model because Lord of the Rings Online was in trouble; rather, it believed the game could reach new audiences with this move. The studio saw this first-hand when Dungeons and Dragons Online received a 500 percent revenue boost after its free-to-play shift.


Truth is they saw a payoff in D&D where they tested the model because that game was D E A D so they had nothing to lose. As for the revenue increase - their costs also increased to support more players and the porting of the system they created for D&D was a development cost.

The reason their revenue was at its lowest was that they had already sold lifetime subscriptions to many of their "fans" and even I bought one not being a traditional "fan". I owned no previously LOTRO merchandise. Unless those payment were in a floating amortization, they weren't revenue monthly. Now, had you compared revenue for their first 6 months when lifetime purchases would have been abundant instead of talking about nearly 2 years into the game when the box for the game was already in the bargain bin... then you would have had increased revenue from those lifetime subs. 

Another piece of this is that they reported a percentage % increase in revenue.

If I make $100 this month and I make $600 next month - by golly, I've had a 500% increase in my revenue. They didn't tell you how much money they made.

They never released the number that the percentage increase was based off of so that your imagination would go wild hearing hundreds of percent increase in sales. Without knowing how much it costs to support 1 million new players and the reworking of the forum they did to segregate them along with the changes to the game itself, you can't assume they were pure profit but ill-informed people read a headline as REVENUE = PROFIT and it doesn't.

I left the game when they went free to play so I'm only guessing outloud here but if they are having problems I think it has a 500% percent relationship to the fact that they aren't the only free game on the market and their microtransactions have become unappealing, in other words, they chose an expiration date for their game by making it something easily duplicated. They also have one of the strongest IPs in the business. Geez, LOTR is taught in schools and is mandatory reading - you can't get any better than that. If they fail, it's because of their decisions to be failures, not in the strength of the original stories told.

So DDO had a 5x boost to revenue.. A game that had hardly any players. I am positive the actual real number were still low considering they used 500 percent instead of 5x and they never said what the revenue was afterwards either.. Bigger numbers look better.

And LotRO did go f2p to save the game. Most of the players right before then were lifetime subs and Turbine wasnt making enough money from what subs they did have left. It was either f2p or eventually shut down. That is why Mirkwood was such a poor expansion.. They had no money. Even now Moria remains their last quality content addition and that happened under P2P. What future games / devs need to learn from them is to NOT sell lifetime subs because it will bite you in the butt. Without doing that IMO LotRO would still be a p2p game with tons better content.

In the end.. I view f2p the same as a failing business.. And those businesses shut down making room for something else to take its place. F2P games should do the same. They are flooding the market from every direction with sub par to horrible games that stick around. Then after outnumbering sub based games enough to make as much or more than them people actually think it s a good business model.. It isnt. 

That goes doubly to p2p games. If you HAVE to go f2p with an atrocious cash shop just shut down and make room for some other company to make a game that wont be a failure. 

For me MMOs should either be B2P or Sub.. No F2P.

Buy to Play - Release the game and produce yearly expansions. Possibly a cosmetic shop at most with appearance options and items that add particle effects to weapons that do not have an effect..etc.

Subscribe - Free to download / no box cost. The sub cost covers all future content additions. Possibly an expansion every 2 years.

Free to Play - Die in a fire.

All we know is the early access is this year and things that go into EQN will go into Landmark if they fit into that style of game. EQN was stated to be near 60% done last SOE Live.. I am expecting early access to be released at this years event. We are supposed to get more EQN info this month and next month.

H1Z1 is a completely different genre so I doubt it will have anything to do with EQNs timeline.


I have played both styles quite a bit and I still prefer the traditional way.. 

1. It isnt exhaustive. I can play for hours if I wanted. With action combat I am normally tired and feel like quitting before an hour is up.

2. I feel the traditional way offers more skill variety , strategy and much better group play. What I have experienced with action combat is few skills , lots of jumping or circle strafing and downright horrible group play.. ESO is really the only one I have played that had acceptable group play but not great.

3. I feel that the pace of play is much better. 

4. Action MMORPGs seem to forget one thing.. The RPG! Those games sacrifice the RPG just to have flashy combat.

I remember battles needed thought to win.. Having to CC 1 or more enemies before pulling or risking a wipe. With action combat games you just pull them all and bunch them up since every single attack hits multiple enemies and end it in seconds. No thought , no danger just weak.

Originally posted by Salute

Currently playing WoD (2nd month and already got bored, so its my last one). I m thinking of giving a second try in ESO when Patch 6 arrives. So, i have some questions to ask.

1. Is there any point to explore the open world except for the exp? I hate VR levels and one reason i want to try again the game is the announce that they will remove them in the end.

2. Are there any kind of world events, bosses, grp quests etc that have a point to do them?

3. Are more than one builds viable in every class or there are some cookie cutter builds that are almost default?

4. Is there any grinding about rep? If yes, is it with daily quests? I hate them...

5. Are professions useful? Can you craft high end gear?

6. How is the economy? Are there any future plans for an AH?

7. I checked and there are 5 EU campaigns all of them low pop. Why is that?

8. Do ppl group together in open world or play single more? Does the game requires grouping outside of dungeons etc?

Thank you in advance :)

Keep in mind this is from someone who hasnt played in a few months and there has been many other changes.

1. Sure. Lore , Sky shards ( skill points ) , quests , scenery etc.

2. Yep. Maybe you didnt get to far along the first time you played. There are Dark Anchors which are public events like Rifts or Warhammers events and then there are smaller ones that I cant remember the name of.. The small ones can spawn anywhere and are solo or small groups.

3. I never followed in cookie cutter builds and always did ok and I never paid much attention. If you want to be all powerful than there will always be cookie cutter builds no matter.

4. I do not remember any rep grinds or dailies. 

5. Yep. Crafting is really nice.

6. It is good as most trade in centered around guilds which kinda keeps things from inflating and you do not have many if any item flippers. I would hope no global AH in the future.

7. No matter what game there are only a fraction of people who choose PvP as their main play style. Even then there are always battles going on even when on a supposedly low population campaign. If you are worried just pick the one that has the most players.

8. In my experience it was mostly single player in the world and groups for dungeons / anchors.

I worry when I see the word " skill " thrown around in an MMORPG.. Is it going to be another action game? That seems to be the buzzword for them even though they require none.
That is part of their " heroic " fad they are currently in and it will stay in no matter what we say.
I think steam comes with a dog vanity pet.. I think.  Go for the cheaper one or wait for steam do run another sale on it. It was pretty low the past couple weeks on there.

I played LoTRO from release through the MoM expansion.. Probably one of the better MMORPGs I had played. Decided it was time for a break at that time and eventually came back to look at the f2p setup. I noticed that I unless I subscribed I had to pay a second time for content I had already paid for when I bought the game the first time. Didnt like that at all but I still subbed for a month or two and felt like the quality of the game took a nose dive so I moved on again.

What I wouldnt give for a UO-esque Middle Earth..

Originally posted by bcbully
A block button is a must. W/o it's the same old circle strafe/roll and roll around.

Which is why I do not understand the hype around these so called " Next Gen " MMORPGs.. They are hideous and everyone wants to do damage leading to groups that are nothing more than a headache. As I said before these games are made for those than have short attention spans and cant be bothered with actually having to think during battle.

Originally posted by Dreamo84
Originally posted by Battlerock

ESO on the couch - would be nice if they added native controller support to pc..... I won't play the console version now that I bought it on sale on steam for pc.... unless.... the console version is straight up buy to play and some of my irl friends buy it too. The rumor mill keeps spinning about ESO going f2p or b2p we will see.



I would prefer buy to play no cash shops



***My payment model hierarchy*** 

-begging of 2015 until the new game devs aka (accountants) come up with another one ....


F2P with cosmetic shop  >=  Buy to play with no cash shops > Buy to play no cash shops but dlc > Buy to play cosmetic shops > F2P with microtrans > Buy to play with microtrans > P2P sub fee > buy to play with sub fee > pay to win > p2p with sub fee with microtrans of any kind

B2P no cash shops? I presume that means no DLC either since you listed DLC as another option. So how exactly do they make money once the box sales slow down? Though I can't imagine anyone would play too long term with no new content lol.


An expansion every year would do the trick I think.. Something that GW2 should have done instead of them letting it stagnate.

Originally posted by Lheiah
EQ Next launch in 2015? You must have some insider knowledge. My understanding is they are just now shifting over to full production. If it comes out in 2015, I see it as being pretty shallow. Maybe 2016...late 2016, and that's a big maybe, until then I will keep putting my money on a roulette table. We are talking launch...right?

Considering they said at the last SOE Live that EQN was about 60% complete I am not sure if it would be shallow or not.. Early Access is coming this year for sure though. 

I think a push needs to be made for these " F2P " games to re label themselves to something more inline to what they really are.. 

While BD looks very nice and I will give it a try.. I am not sure about it. Most videos I see is someone taking on 10+ enemies at the same time and to me that isnt fun. Tactics and group dynamics disappear in action MMORPGs it seems.

Also out of all the tab target games I have played I have never just did 1 2 3 4 5 as so many claim them to be.. However in the action MMORPGs I have played I have done just that because they are just stupidly easy and nearly all of the fights are over so quickly that brain power is not needed.

Originally posted by GPrestige
Originally posted by Octagon7711



This is the first I've seen ESO mentioned. How open does the world feel?

I think it is great personally. There are zones but each one is very large and open with tons of exploration. It is right there with vanilla EQ1 / WoW / DAoC as far as feeling like a world for me.

If by followed you mean removing certain features from the blueprint after not touching them at all or pushing certain ones back constantly. They have not followed the blue print. Looking at an end version that has been edited a million times means nothing. Combat ( PvE ) was supposed to have been in 6 months ago and we just now got it.. Following the blueprint? You are nuts.

Vendors , Achievements , Crafting Tools , Crafting Shapes , In game Coin for upkeep / trading and many others were supposed to have been in last year. Now who knows when they will be in the game now that they have moved most devs over the EQN. Instead of giving the players better tools to create their own shapes easier they just gave people clunky templates that are a headache. 

Followed the blueprint? Pull your head out of the sand already. If I made a to-do list for today and crossed out everything and then added " scratch my head " which I did .. Did I really do the to-do list?

The pre alpha hype video in 2013 still shows a more advanced game than what they produced a year later. 

Originally posted by kitarad
Perhaps the only conclusion you can draw is that PvP is not popular in this game.

When it comes to MMORPGs I have yet to see one have extremely popular PvP.. Even going back to DAoC ( a game touted for its PvP ) you would only see a fraction of the server in the frontier... Even in UO most people tried to avoid PvP and why it had its most players with Trammel.

PvP in MMORPGs has become a " Me too " feature and that is it. Developers need to drop it as a core part of a MMORPG.

Originally posted by Nemesis7884

stylized graphics are far superior for an mmo for a variety of reasons:

1. performance

2. power of expression - stylizing not only allows equipment but also faces/emotions to be much more diverse and expressive without being creepy...good example is elder scrolls online where everyting and everybody looks the same and has the same expression

3. aging - it is a simple fact that stylized graphics age a lot still looks pretty good today while elder scrolls already looked dated when it released


variety and longevity are very important for an mmo as such i think stylized graphics are preferrable for this particular genre


one thing about the combat tough, i think dynamic action combat is the future because it makes encounters more engaging...they just havent found the sweet spot yet...but if they go into the direction of eso with some guild wars sprinkled in and maybe some dragon age inquisition they can build something great... what i really like about the combat tough is there power/origin mechanics which will allow for a LOT of variety, building, tactics etc.

1. Is that why Landmark still runs like crap? If Landmark runs like crap then I can only expect EQN to be the same.

2. Who cares? When will you ever notice facial expressions other than panning the camera around watching your own emotes? With forced 3rd person combat with flashy lights you wont be able to see any of it there. In the end it is an excuse for SOE to continue to push SOEMote that no one ever used or will use.. 

Stylized graphics arent needed for that either.

3. This is subjective. And one would have to assume that either game would be around long enough for that to matter. Who is to say SOE wont have another LM or EQ on the way in another 5-7 years? 

Then you look at H1Z1 and think.. Why could they not have used a similar graphic style with EQN or LM. And dont say voxels because that isnt true at all.

Action combat will never be the future on MMORPGs. Constantly shoving it down peoples throats doesnt make it so. It is shallow and built for people who have short attention spans that require something flashy to happen every second. There is a reason why the most popular games are tab targeting and a reason why those same games have the most staying power. Ever notice how all these action MMORPGs go f2p practically overnight or how they release as f2p? There is a reason for it.. Wildstar is next.. ESO will probably hold out but it isnt over the top action like the other games.

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