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All Posts by jakin

All Posts by jakin

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122 posts found
Originally posted by Selenica

 I have a feeling that this game is going to lack the simplicity that console gamers expect from FPS games. I'm a little surprised they're even allowed to publish it on consoles - the sales projections for the game must be staggeringly low. Even if every Eve player has a console and buys the game, that's no more than 200,000 sales.


Not really the point.  If they wanted just EVE players to play DUST they'd release it for PC only.

CCP is trying to create a good shooter game first, trying to independently capture the console shooter gamer as an independent market segment from PC gamers.  If they make a shooter that stands well on it's own they'll expand their playerbase.  The link to EVE is one of CCPs typical push-the-envelope ideas that is supposed to be a value added experience.


(Oh, and to earlier in the thread - and Whitewolf is in Atlanta not Austin)

This seems more of a positive to me.  CCP wouldn't licence an engine if they weren't happy with how it's performing and were confident it was going to suit their purposes.  AFAIK, anyone can fool around with commercial engines as long as they're not making money off of them - development could very well be quite far along and they're only just now working out the legal agreements because they're only now sure UR3 will work for them.

I'm actually glad CCP made the choice to use a proven engine to run DUST.  CCP is an MMO company, they have no experience with FPS games at all.  So they'd either have to hire a whole FPS team to develop a novel engine, or they could licence a proven engine and tweek it to their needs while concentrating on the integration and the MMO elements of the final game.  I know which I'd choose in their place.

Originally posted by OddjobXL

The main AURORA event I was involved in was the Khanid Carrier series of events.  It was kind of amazing to me that we even had that going on given how relatively few people were involved.  The battles would see pretty broad participation but the side events building up to them almost felt like they belonged to just a handful of small Corps that were vested in Khanid RP.  The whole thing blew my mind.

However, you can still have a D&D like RP experience in at least one MMO.  SWG, which is hard to otherwise recommend, does have a couple toolsets for player content creation.  The Storyteller system focuses on live interaction between a player managing the props and NPCs and a player party.  It's not instanced so the Storyteller can set up props in player cities, with permission, and many regions on many worlds for a real involved adventure.  As an old tabletop hand myself, I can say it's by far the closest I've come to old school roleplaying adventure in MMOs so far and that includes CoH's Architect.

In many ways, I think putting the tools of creation as much into the hands of the "right" players as possible might well make for a much more lively, dynamic and egalitarian system of adventure and narrative creation than what we've seen before.  And by the "right" players I mean those not so motivated by material reward.  That was the bane of Architect.  Why have a handful of RP GMs when you could have hundreds of player GMs and players organizing freely around them?  If one clique isn't working find another.


That kind of thing was both the boon and the bane of AURORA.  Events were never "supposed" to target one particular faction of players (i.e. events "shouldn't" have been made that targeted Khanid roleplayers particularly) - but the best return on the event would inevitably come from the roleplayers, who would generally appreciate the event for the experience rather than the shiny loot.

So at once you've got criticism that AURORA was targeting cliques with preferential treatment, while at the same time having criticism that events were worthless because there weren't good enough rewards attached for the work.  It was always a catch-22 that had someone crying foul.

My personal philosophy when producing an event was to have the 'hook' be as public as humanly possible, giving as many players as possible the chance to be involved - but then to let the story evolve as it would after that.  Usually it would be down to a small core of roleplayers that follow the storyline through a series of events, with some others drifting in and out by chance.  At one point I ran an event targeted at a single player, because that was the way the story made sense (the next event in the series was then aimed at more, and frankly I doubt anyone ever came out of an event I ran ahead in either ISK or loot).

Rewards are the biggest problem with an official event system.


Sadly, the reason I started playing EVE was because of the clownshow that was SWG's early life.  I believe you when you say the Storyteller system would be a good substitute, but SWG has too many other issues attached for me.  I fooled around with the Ryzom ring for a bit too, but it just wasn't the same.

EVE has a huge, rich storyline to hang everything off of, and for whatever reason people in EVE would generally just start roleplaying along (casually mind you) if a bunch of green text showed up in local chat.  One of the things I really liked with eventing was hot-dropping into a random system and starting to roleplay the story, just to see the reactions.  With an in-game storyteller system you don't get that - the people you wind up with are looking for that experience.  I appreciate that the outcome would probably be "better" from an experience perspective - but it's also a little bit predictable, which is unfortunate.


I was part of the AURORA project that Oddjob refers to for about a year prior to it's shutdown.  Bar none it was the best experience of my MMO life, though it sort of ruined EVE for me afterward (and MMOs in general I guess).  I grew up playing D&D, and the opportunity to perform a "live-action" DM role in a game with almost limitless storytelling potential was nothing but pure magic for me.

That said, getting things done was often a nightmare of complexity - trying to coordinate dozens of people from literally every timezone across Europe and North America, getting storyline and event setups approved by three levels of authority, actually working through a very primitive interface ... it kind of amazed me when any event went off even close to the plan.

I can kind of see CCPs point in closing it down, given the possibility of abuse or favoritism, the relatively low impact on the playerbase (an event can only play to so many people out of the playerbase as a whole) and the overhead of supporting a volunteer team that was almost a hundred people strong at one point (with five levels of authority at that).

Still, the day it closed down something special within EVE died never to return.  The Mercury team does a good job with the limited mandate they have (mostly ex-AURORA still trying to provide that magic) - but it's not the same as it used to be.


AURORA wasn't the only great volunteer element of CCP that contributes (contributed) to the community there though.  The volunteer forum mod team was a great builder of community and was very well recognized within the forum population prior to it's shut-down in favour of paid moderators.  The current Community Manager came from those ranks actually.  (Indeed, I know for a fact that at least several of the current developers and staff at CCP cut their teeth in one of the four vol programs, and a few more are working in the industry on other MMOs)

The newbie helping STAR team is a very nice touch, which once had a mandate to try and personally greet every new player to EVE and answer any questions they might have had.  I think they're mostly in-charge of moderating the newbie chat channel now - but still a very important function that you don't see much anywhere else.

And even though most MMOs have a test server and dedicated tester-players, the EVE bug hunter team just seems to outdo any of the ones I've seen.  Perhaps because they've been part of the QA department for so long that the devs trust the ECAID volunteers and their opinion - I don't really know.


CCP was founded by people who loved the original UO, and it showed in the creation of a volunteer program.  They've made some missteps over time, and they've given up on things I personally would have rather seen continue - but they're living proof that such things are viable as long as there is a political will to implement and support them.  Frankly, it's a value-added service that studios such as Icarus might well consider implementing as a way to enhance their product.

In the spirit of full disclosure - the list of servers for WAR:

Originally posted by Malickie

Is it just me or did they give up on further development...?


This would be closer to the mark IMO.

I'd suggest branching out.  I've been playing MMOs for years and have not once played one where 9 of these 10 things were even available (lag being a constant - but far from as bad as most make it out to be).

Reviews are always problematic - on this site as well as any other.  Aggregates of those reviews are worth about as much as the digital media they're stored on.

Take movie reviews, which are far more mature as a process.  Roger Ebert (given the thread title) is very well known, very well published and yet I agree with about half of his critiques.  He absolutely loves some films that I wouldn't even bother to pirate, and hates some that I would like.

The biggest problem of the article is not that Metacritic scores do or do not agree with popular sentiment - it's that there are know-nothing CEOs and management goons out there that think it's some sort of bullet-proof gospel.  In broad strokes sure - WoW is the best MMO, the others are varying degrees less, but to use them as a fine-grained indication of which studios are better than others is purely wrong-headed.

Not that it surprises me. 

The two main reservations I have about TOR:

1)  Number of MMORPGs released by Bioware = 0. 

2)  Bioware is little more than a brand of EA Games.

They play into one another.  The Bioware team (if such a thing genuinely exists) does not have experience with launching or maintaining an MMO.  Anyone they have would come from another company or another sector of EA (Mythic for instance).  As such, all the innovative things people laud Bioware for (i.e. great gameplay experiences, great storylines, etc) don't really apply because the team would very probably be blended with people that are used to putting out the "standard MMO". 

Even if this isn't the case, even supposedly "experienced" online gaming companies have been turning out terribly derivative and uninteresting MMOs for a while now, compounding it with poor communication and judgement as well.  The balance of probabilities is not in favour of Bioware getting it right on their first try.

Specifically on #2, EA has shown as an organization they're not really committed to making good MMOs.  I'm not convinced that EA would necessarily give the Bioware development team everything they might need when it comes down to crunch time.  TOR may sound good on paper to some at the moment, but there's every probability that it will be released too soon or incomplete as so many other recent MMOs have been.

/shrug.   It would be good for the genre to have another solid success, but it's way too far out for me to be confident TOR is likely to be that success.

The phrase "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" would seem to be apt - except they're not so much rearranging as throwing a few chairs overboard with some half-baked expectation that action will somehow right the ship.

The core problem still remains, be the list new or old.  A hypothetical new player would still probably be playing Nordenwatch or Reikland Factory for roughly half of their WAR career.  Nordenwatch gets all this good press - but it gets very stale after playing it through several times, as does the Factory.  Nordenwatch particularily doesn't scale all that well as it goes up the tiers (IMO of course).

The dev team's strategy really eludes me lately.  They're either taking away content, or giving it away for free, and somehow that's supposed to grow the game somehow?  I mean, presuming that's even the hope and they're not just trying to look busy to avoid any more EA staff cuts.

WAR was the most genuine fun I've had in an MMO for a long time.  Though it had it's problems the base system was very enjoyable - but without constant development a game gets stale, and WAR is a month-old bagel at this point.

Originally posted by Malickie

The funny part is CCP has done one of the worst things I have ever heard of in MMO gaming. Giving certain corps an advantage over others is the bottom of the barrel IMO. They even admitted to it, lol. This just shows how backwards logic can be on this site at times. Because, it is a widely held opinion that CCP has done no wrong, yet they had one of the worst launches ever, on top of what I pointed out above.

Still, they are viewed in better light than most companies out there. It really makes no sense, to me anyway. Personally I don't have a grudge against any company, they're all capable of creating great games, or turning out crap.


This just reinforces what a large number of EVE players were saying at the time - the T20 / BoB scandle was blown out of proportion.  Yes it was a bad thing and handled poorly, but it wasn't as massive an impact as the forum furor made it out to be.

CCP shows a passion and a dedication to their game that most other companies just don't seem to portray.  Though they make mistakes (just like all the rest) they seem to honestly try to better themselves (i.e. setting up an Internal Affairs department to prevent further issues like T20), and they stick by their game (and players) for the long term.

Contrast to EA (who cut back support on any game not performing well to reinforce the next big thing) or Cryptic (who come off as a used car salesman IMO) and so on.

Gaining customer loyalty is a marathon, and it can all be lost in a half-second of stupid commentary or posting.  Personally I believe that CCP managed to weather their various mistakes because they spent a number of the early years being active with their playerbase, being honest and straightforward with their communication (for the most part) and doing their best to maintain useful and informative communication lines to the players (rather than hiding behind a Community Manager / meatshield).

Well - I for one will not pre-pay an MMO company.  There is no contract or assurance that the development team will continue to improve or support the game in a way I'd be satisfied playing - as such, it would be very possible that my pre-payment would be wasted on a game I would otherwise quit.  (see SWG NGE for an easy example)

Should a publishing company decide to penalize me in-game for choosing this, that publishing company will simply not get any money at all.

Frankly, the system described above would be just about the last thing I'd ever pay for in an online game.


I think the SWG dev team is actually just trolling now.  They know what the response will be and are enjoying it.

Originally posted by Vato26

Do you know how much of the total gaming population actually uses X-fire?  Until you do, then your X-fire "statistics" are pure guesses.


Technically that's not the case.  The only thing that matters about Xfire is the question of whether the user population of Xfire is typical of the user population of the MMOs in question.  Percentage of the population is irrelevant.

If the collective population that uses Xfire exhibits roughly the same attributes (i.e. duration of play, types of games played, and so on) as the population of the MMO in question - then the Xfire stats are probably a pretty accurate representation of the relative populations.

Originally posted by Sovrath 

Or maby it's in editing mode.

Just because something is put in a game doesn't mean that it should be there. Some of those scenarios were just not fun. And if less and less people are doing them then it makes sense to bring to the fore the more enjoyable scenarios.

I'll be honest as I am confused over the removal of forts issue as I was just in a fort siege about a week ago. I had read they were removed but they are there so I am unsure as to what was actually removed?


I can kind of agree in concept, but I've got to imagine that the sheer repetition of scenarios is going to drive any new player (or releveling player) nuts.  I mean Nordenwatch is a fun scenario, but if you spend months playing Nordenwatch or Gates of Ekrund every other scenario pop it's going to get old fast.  Especially if you are actually required to play scenarios to receive currency for RvR weapons at any decent rate.

It would have been better to figure out why the other scenarios aren't fun (i.e. the turtling nature of the capture the flag scenarios) and fix that somehow, rather than simply removing content.  If a player quits and looks back in on the game in a few months to see no new content, and in fact a great deal of old content removed - what drives them to re-subscribe?


Fortresses were removed as gatekeepers to the two main cities.  It's no longer necessary for the attacking side to siege the fort and kill the fortress lord to open up the city.  I'm not sure to what you may be referring - do people defend and attack the forts just for fun now?  (bearing in mind it's a common thing for people to incorrectly call "keeps" (i.e. the castles in the middle of the RvR lakes) forts)

Originally posted by Blazz

Yes, I believe that's the one. They have been taken under Bioware's* wing.

In Mythic's defence, if you're now enjoying WAR due to the core gameplay elements involving both scenario RvR and open world RvR, Bioware had nothing to do with that. Mythic came up with some decent ideas - public quests, etc.

They just failed fairly hard on the game engine programming side of things =/


*I think.


That's a bit of an interesting point actually - to what extent do Mythic OR Bioware even exist any more?  Both were bought by EA (Mythic alone, Bioware as part of VG Holdings along with Pandemic Studios) and EA appears to control them completely (as evident by the disbanding of Pandemic last year).

Are not Mythic and Bioware now simply brand names that EA can slap on pretty much anything they like?  I mean, the former heads of Bioware now lead the "EA MMO group" but they're still beholden to EA management.  If they don't perform they'll likely go the same way as Marc Jacobs did.

It seems to me that Bioware exists in name only anymore.  If the company can be reorganized or downsized at whim, and the staff can be moved around however a third-party sees fit - that's not really a company any more, it's just another department within a giant conglomerate.

Yes and no.

Yes, it would be possible to make a "more realistic" combat model for MMOs than the current games have, but no it wouldn't be able to be nearly as lethal as real combat was / is / would be.

Basically the best approximation that balances the ability to react and enjoy the process of combat would be something like a movie sword fight.  There would have to be lots of attack-parry-counterattack-parry actions that preserve the length of combat while dispensing with the D&D trope of "hitpoints". 

Real combat isn't fun precisely because it's usually so fast.  The holy grail for all game combat systems is that win or lose it was fun and engaging for both sides.  Generally the closer it gets to "realistic" the less fun combat becomes.  As an example, take modern flight sims - I can spend an hour prepping to fly, navigating to the target, setting up a bomb run, and an unlucky burst of flak ends it all in about 3 seconds flat.  It's part of the game - but flight sims aren't very widely appealing partially because of that dynamic.

For a system with broad appeal you'd need to have enough time within combat to be able to plan, react, make mistakes and try to recover, and so on.


Heh - yeah Pheace, "wing" is what you're aiming for.  :)

Originally posted by xpowderx

Once again I agree with Spyder. I see you have not played  lately and are only here to bash. I am currently in T2. My Magus which you say is a very poor class kicks total burr! I think your reasoning is biased. I know without a doubt you either have not played recently. Or you do not know how to play a character class.

I love my RVR with both my T2 Magus and my T1 soon to be T2 Blackgaurd!


Tier 1 and 2 are barely a third of the way into the game.  Get back to me when you hit Tier 4.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Opinions based on the way the game was. That is all this is. Cheating was never a big issue and remains to be a non issue.
AoE was nerfed to shit. If you don't think so then please go and record yourself as a BW tearing a whole WB down make sure to have the date on the screen, because it has not, and does not happen since the nerf. Just because a classes role is that of a healer, or a tank as you mention a few and you wish to play them as something they were never meant to be do not make them broken nor does it make them unplayable. I have a Rune Priest, damage was never a factor they are pure healers. That is the way they were made, that is how you will play them. Black Orc is a tank, play it as such or expect to get mad because you thought they were a hit taking damage dealer. All of what you claim and say in defense of his opinions are biased, and untrue in the games current state. Zerging is a choice it can be prevented, sadly players don't want to work together properly and only seek to complain. Mythic should not ever get involved in a strategic way of playing. Zerging has been and hopefully always remains a valid strategy to overwhelm the enemy, armies in real life use it and so do players in the game, fighting them off as a group is the only way to beat it. All MMOs will have exploits, never will there be one without any, some that have been in WoW for instance are still there, same with UO they are inevitable.


End of story stop reliving the past, and for the love of god get up to date on how the game is currently.


Ah - my mistake.  I supposed I might be talking to someone that didn't want to have their head in the sand.  At least you'll keep your ears warm down there.

I guess if bomb groups "do not and have not happened since the nerf" it should be pretty darn difficult to find any sort of comment on them on the forum......oh wait, on the first page no less:

(By the by, I don't run a BW or a Sorc, I run the other fantastically useful and poorly balanced Order class - the WP.)

RP / Zeal (which I also have one of) are problematic because they are simply boring, not to mention diametrically opposed to the original philosophy of there being no classes that go "I heal and I heal".  For what they are they work - which is a far better situation than the aforementioned SW / MARA / Magus / Blackguard bunch.

BO and Swordmaster have a pain-in-the-ass mechanic that limits them to about a third of their usable abilities at any given time.  As such, if you want a particular effect - you may or may not be in the right stance / plan to use it, and RvR doesn't exactly wait for you to come back around to it. 

BTW - Ironbreaker is a tank too, but seems to play pretty damn well as a hit taking damage dealer.

A fan is somebody who enjoys a game but recognizes its problems and can have a rational discussion about them.  A fanboy is someone that slavishly defends their game regardless of reality.  Guess which one you're coming off as?


Note:  for anyone that's still seriously reading this thread for informational purposes, this site is probably the best thing you could look at when judging the current state of WAR:

There you can see detailed breakdowns of classes, rank and population stats for all the remaining NA based servers.  Draw your own conclusions as you may.

Spyder, I think you're letting your enthusiasm for WAR cloud your opinions.

Cheating has been a problem in WAR since day 1.  It took them almost a year to get a handle on the hack program WARBuddy (if they indeed do have a handle on it now -it doesn't seem to be as big a problem).  Using that program it was indeed possible to move in ways that made it very obvious a player was cheating (there's a YouTube video advertising it's features out there - check Google).

Beyond hacking, there are definately still exploits that would explain the effect Sweaty is talking about.  Screen-dragging or something like it existed in DAoC and was in WAR again from Day 1.  It's a method of intentionally lagging out your own client for a brief period so that your avatar warps around in the game world.  I've seen it done and it is really frustrating to fight against as a melee character.

As to PBAoE, it's still a very powerful and viable tactic.  The two main specs for BW / Sorc are a Close Quarters bomb spec or a long range Focused Mind spec.  The latter is in keeping with the "glass cannon" idea for the two mage-types, but with the addition of the Guard function they are both far too survivable in melee ranges for the amount of power they wield.  If you don't realize that - you're not being honest about the state of the game.  You're right about GTAoE like Rain of Fire and Pit of Shades - the devs did render those far closer to balanced months ago, but on balance the two mage archetypes are still disproportionately powerful compared to the other RDPS.

And that is only one example of the poor class balance job done by Mythic.  While the BW / Sorc are the most out there, check Winkl's stats for the bottom-rung archetypes across all Tier 4.  They've been the same classes for the life time of the game.  Magus, Blackguard, Maurader and Shadow Warrior have been the absolute poorest classes of all for their entire existence.  Not to mention several pretty dense mechanic / role choices that make Black Orks, Swordmaster, Zealots and Runepriests rather unpleasant to play - if not outright breaking the class.

Finally, while most of the (remaining few) servers are pretty close to balanced in overall population - Mythic certainly deserves to wear it for not considering the fact that overall balance doesn't matter when you've got wild swings in active population with absolutely no method of correction or balance implemented.  It's not much fun for either side when the zerg is rolling, and with their experience from DAoC I would have hoped Mythic would have at least attempted to code in some limiters or balancing factors to make the zerg less of a factor.  Sadly they did not, and in fact have steadily made choices that empower the zerg rather than limit it.

WAR was and remains a lot of fun, but to ignore or downplay these valid criticisms is not right either - it's simply a knee-jerk reactionary response to criticism.

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