All Posts by Moodah

Originally posted by Guillermo197

 

The OP made me laugh too. Appearently WoW is the only game he played.

LOTRO also used this kind of phasing technique (unfortunately not on all, but a lot).

WAR has this kind of phasing as well. Also unfortunately not everywhere, but still.

So Blizzard isn't the first with this.

Cheers

I think it was implemented in LOTRO in a slightly different way, although I might be wrong, besides I find "who did it first" debate irrelevant. I'm interested more in how the different solutions were and what were the good and the bad sides.

Lotro has it more like GW (pre and post searing Ascalon) ... although I haven't played the endgame much and didn't touch Moria yet. It was more having two instances of the same world in which you had two groups of people - ones that did the event went into one, and ones that didnt went to another. I might be totaly off though.

From what I saw it is not the case with WOW. Both groups share the same overlaping world and are not in the different instance, but they see the world slightly different. Not so much about mobs but more about static things in the enviroment (cut the tree quest - pre quest the tree is there, post-quest it isn't but we still share the same game area except that I see the tree differently).

Originally posted by Kaelaan21

Above poster summed it up great on why "world phasing" would not work. Having a few change the world for the many is not very profitable.

... Also, technically, "world phasing" was already put into WoW. Anyone remember the ringing of the gong at Ahn Qiraj? Yes, it was a horrible lag fast that ended up restarting the server a few times whie trying to take down the giant bug outside.

World phasing on a grand scheme would ultimately make an MMO flop these days anyway. Blizzard changed WoW's raid progression allowing 10-mans to do every instance for a reason. Because people with a real life (aka most of the playerbase) don't want to put up with a large group of people for hours on end a few nights a week. With world phasing, it would be just another "Hey, look at me! Look at me!" race to the top. At least with the acknowledgements, it's not an in your face thing.

It's not so much about one changing the world for many as you changing the world for yourself. I don't see world breaking events as a consequence of single or a small group of player's actions as being viable any time in the near future from the technical standpoint. Wether it would work or not in technicaly ideal conditions is a question of (currently non-existing) design, so wether it would work or not is highly speculative.

I'm thinking more of a change on the small scale that affect your own character and his immediate surroundings and has not much impact on the grand scale of things, giving you the sense of accomplisment and moving forward in the storyline, but still not altering the world for the players that did not yet come to that point in the story. I think that what they did with phasing is a good step and a good basis for upgrading it in the future.

To elaborate - I don't necesserily mean that if I kill Arthas, he will be dead and no one else will be able to interact with him or kill him after that - that would not work, at least not at this point. I however think that if I go and torch a building, or cut a tree, sink a boat, steal a pumpkin etc, those type of actions have direct results - I see the building burned down, the boat sunk, no trace of a pumpkin, while in the grand scheme of things those don't mean absolutely nothing, it gives me as the actor in those events a feeling of accomplishing something visible and thus altering the world on the small scale. That is what "phasing" does and that is why I think it's a good thing, adding another level to the, albeit illusionary, interactivity to the world.

Originally posted by ssstupido

 

You realy have no first hand experience with it, have you?

This technology is by far the most story enchancing tool I've experienced in all the MMOs I've played so far. I'm just hoping that SW:TOR is looking at this, because it can make such a huge implact into actual storyplaying instead of mere storytelling.

that's what single player games and books are for.

So wait ... you want to say that mindless grind is what MMOs should be and that all storyplaying should be reserved for books and single player games? ... who are you to decide that. Maybe it is not what is important to you, but it is sure as hell important to alot of people.

one of the biggest challenges of MMOs IS that the world never changes and whatever the players do it is the results are imaginary. For many players it is what gives the biggest feeling of futility. You want to be a part of a living online world, you want to immerse yourself into the world and yet, whatever you do, the results neevr show on the world arround you. That is one of the biggest if not THE biggest challenge that MMO world design faces for probably more than half a decade now.

What WOW made in WOTLK is again a step into the right dirrection. The feeling of DK starting area where as you progress towards the stronghold of the Scarlet Crusade, the world is changing as you progress and it gave me some of the best feelings of immersion I've ever had in any MMOs. I wasn't that glued to the screen in a MMO for years. 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by sadeyx

I dont think anyone can dispute your opinions, and some of what you say is correct.

Finding quest locations.. yea very frustrating, but after a while you get used to it, and even come to like it.. its like a real adventure of exploration.

Most people complain that quests in most mmo's are.. go here, go there.. lotro is more like... go over there somewhere, you'll have to figure out where,  and then come back to me.. if you can remember where I am ;)

Which is very annoying, VERY annoying! - but the mental reward for having eventually found and done is satisfying, you feel like you have been on a right ole adventure!  The reward is even more when you come to roll a new character and you already know exactly where to go! - it almost feels like cheating, and everyone loves cheating ;)

 

I have to say I had another experience of trying to find a quest location (had to find a guy in Moria) where getting lost was positive.

I had to find some guy north of the cross roads section, so headed north. However, there were roaming enemies which I kept having to take out. I then saw what looked like a green area down a large hall which led me to an undergroudn garden of sorts. But then I had a Goblin on a warg jump out of some foliage and attack me. Took him on and got tured around only to take on two more enemies while avoiding the notice of a named enemy that was up on a platform.

I then found a travel point by a cleft in the wall. I go through the cleft and find that not only am I outside in a wintery area, there are also these red named lizard things around the area. One notices me and I think "sure, I'm a guardian" it will take a while but I'll kill it. Except I couldn't do enough damage and he was whittling me down. So back through the wall.

Back in Morai I looked at my map and saw and interesting area east. So went there and found a whole new area and quest area. Eventually I found my way back to the original crossroads place only to see a lvl 53 Champion having some problems with multiple mobs. He was practically out of Morale so I jumped in, did my shout, all enemies on me and we took them out.

All that gameplay from just searching for one guy.

THAT is why I like the system the way it is. To me the quest isn't going to X and clicking on somethign so I can go back to Y.

Where's the fun in that?  I might as well just do anything else because there is no challenge or fun in going to the X and routinely clicking on somethign so I can say "I'm finished".

I agree ... I hate the newest trend in MMOs where quest locations are exactly marked. It just makes an already braindead activity (go there kill X) even more braindead where it devolves to just spending time doing something with zero effort. I think MMO gamers are becoming more and more obsessive compulsive in their behaviour where they don't care at all what they do as long as their activity involves as little effort as possible to reach some virtual goal of 10/10.

X on the map just makes majority of people go from the quest giver to the X and back without talking to anyone, without any interaction with the world arround them or the other players. It's sad really.

I still have some hope that gamers will figure out that that effort IS what makes the game and the achievements actually fun.

I just hate what MMOs are turning into because I like playing them. LOTRO is one of the bright stars on the horizon.

The way I see it, the game is either so far far away that by the time it comes out wow will be entirely obsolete and they will be ready to switch to a new project, or, the game is something so different than wow that it appeals to the entirely different demographics, even being just a niche game.

I somehow don't believe that blizz will shoot themselves in the foot and spend money to develop a game that will take the customers away from their main cash-cow.

I do not think releasing a wow clone is safe. People never go for them en'masse and once they realise that the game offers nothing really new compared to the already established polished game they have been playing and have all the characters and social conections already established, they are going to cancel and go back to the original game.

That is the reason no other MMO than wow managed record numbers recently - they all try to appeal to the same populace and steal wow's players, but once the intrigued players come over and try it, and realise there is almost nothing new, they just go back.

Thinking that making a wow clone is a safe bet is wrong, its just that people didn't realise yet.

Making a next big thing will be a combination of innovative approaches to the stale genre, coupled with good funding, most likely from the developers outside the genre who will be able to think outside the established ways, because the current "old" companies prove over and over and over that they are just plain unable to think outside certain, let's call them dogmas.

Here is a short list of what I think are the areas that are the future of the genre:

- player created content

- customisation of the character and impact of the surroundings and the way you play to the look of the character

- quests getting deeper than "bring 10 badger toenails" wrapped in a pretty paper.

- influence of the player on the gameworld and certain events influencing how the world looks like (pre - searing and post searing ascalon in GW )

and many many more,

yet for some reason we are stuck with the formula:

- add 2 or more factions that are unable to win or lose and are stuck in eternal status quo

- add a couple of run-on-the-mill classes

- create a couple of playfields

- add levels

- add a bunch of kill and collect quests

- create a couple of instances and put a boss in the end of them

- add water

et voila - your next MMORPG is created - now go think why your players are not staying.

I don't think the problem is just war or the players, its the problem of the entire genre where developers are just unable to think outside of the box and each generation of games every couple of years does not bring anything fundamentaly new, except minor tweaks.

Gamers do not want to do the same thing over and over again, and sooner or later comes a critical treshold where they just don't want to do it anymore. I leveled my anarchy char to 220, I left my WoW char at 70, why the hell whould I want to go through the exactly same process again with a different skin.

The process HAS to change enough so that it feels different and in current wave of MMOs it just does not. Instead becoming deeper and deeper and offering more and more options, they are becoming more and more shallow with less and less options. WoW is not to blame for it, because wow does very good what it is supposed to do. Companies and developers with unreasonable thinking that if they offer what wow offers with some minor tweaks is going to guarantee the success are to blame.

Why would anyone in their right mind after lets say maxing a char in a couple of previous generations of games, lets say EQ, AO, WoW etc, go through the exactly same process in a new game - there is no logic behind it. The expirience of the new game has to be fresh for you to do it and that is the fundamental reason people are becoming boring and dumping the new MMOs faster and faster.

It's the "been there - done that" feeling.

It's just mind boggling how the developers are just plain unable to process that fact.

One of the things that distingushes CCP from other MMO companies is that they are seriously expanding the game mechanics with each and every expansion, while most others only add more of the same with different skins on and a couple more level. With every EVE expansion there are either more different things to do, or there are more ways to achieve the same thing. Game becomes more and more complex and not just bigger.

I am sure that they will employ the same approach with WiS. At first they will introduce it, and put some things that you can do, and then over the period they will work on broadening and deepening the expirience, making it more complex.

am I getting this straight - you want MORE CC in WAR???

I think "something wrong with MMOs" category could also fit in my previous answer, the second paragraph in particular.

I voted "no inovation/devs affraid taking risks" because thats the closest. Its not what I really think.

I think they need to start defining games - not try making a game for everyone, but start making games for certain profile of gamers. Its like movies - Movie that wants to be a comedy a horror and a porn flick and all at the same time would in most cases suck. The game need to start having clear target audience instead of trying to please everyone.

Second, and I think this is most important - I think all of the old MMO companies are just not capable of thinking out of the box. They have these ways how "things should be done" in order to be more or less successfull and they cling on to it like crazy. Some indie companies do have great ideas, but they rarely have financial backing an manpower that can bring it to practice.

I think we will see reall "next gen" inovation again when one of the big players of the game market that didn't have a mmo so far, and isn't burdened with a decade of previously established way of thinking -  like Epic or Bioware (maybe already) for example, decides to step into the arena, and brings new fresh ideas from developers that are used making other type of games where perception of what is fun is entirely in another category from what we currently see in MMOs, and they have enough buck to back it up.

Before that happens, we will only have these old companies rehashing decades of previously used ideas and adding a twist to them and selling them as new games.

Originally posted by AJ2ME

A couple of things I see wrong with these changes is:

1) Just because I am not the class that is currently playing in the scenario doesn't mean I don't have a need for the drop. Could be for an alt or could be needed for tailsman making.

2) Was in a scenario that had a AFK plaer in it. Player wasn't in the spawn area. Some of these players will just move from the spawn point to a safe spot. Most will probably have a "tool" that will allow them to do that so they can be grinding AFK.

Otherwise, Looks good.

P.S.:  also ran into a problem last night while playing. I got stuck in the fire pit at the spawn point. since I was stuck, will I also get hosed for the XP and RR that I did earn?

Note: Using "/stuck " throws you out of the scenario.

1) Actually that means exactly that. If you need something, that means your character can use it and its better then the one you currently own. If you need stuff for your alt or for DE, that is always a greed roll.  

Othervise everyone can claim they have an alt or a DE and equipment never ends with the people who actually need it to improve their gameplay on the char they are playing. That is basic MMO etiquete since they invented the /roll

That is one of the weirdest bugs I ever encountered.

What you need to do, is you need to reset your regional options (control panel -> regional and language options) to default UK or US depending where you bought the game.

there was alot of people having that problem. I still can't figure out how the regional settings can prevent the engine to render things ... go figure :P

more info here http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80309

Cheers!

Originally posted by tetammoth

who cares, this game isnt better than AoC, it just has more fanbois at the moment.

The flamewar for this game comes soon, do you think i am the only one that found out what bullcrap Mythic sold to us ?

I don't know where you took that, but the difference from AOC for example is that Mythic delivered stuff they promissed and did not cheat people, which was the major reason for AOC failure. Since you are taking the AoC example - AoC promissed one, delivered something else and that in a highly unfinished state. WAR delivered what it promissed, mostly in the state they promissed so if there are any complaints, they are not even closely in the same league as AOC, and that will show in the numbers.

You might not like how the game looks and works, but that is only your own problem that you did not read tons of information, available well before the launch, before you decided to make a purchase and thus, you have zero right to come complain. Mythic did not sell you any bullcrap - it is obviously you who did an unimformed purchase.

Originally posted by Oriphus

I don't know..is it just me..WoW is in a different league here...don't put them side by side. As before, not talking about plain simple cartoon characters, its all the animation, the way they interact with the world, how they look when preforming actions on other players..the PvE monsters the same, static, uninteresting..it just seems cheap, shody, basic.

Maybe they are rose tinted specs..but i am still pretty sure my SNES did have better graphics.

I agree there, but its not just war. I like how war looks, I like how lotro looks. I absolutely loved the look of AOC, however none of those games come even close to the fluidity of the nimation WoW has ... after playing Wow, all other games seem so stiff to me. I get used to it, and not notice it after a while, but hats off to wow in that department.

Originally posted by Zertyr

I agree on that gameplay and gameflow, (no stuttdering graphics or lag) is more important than flashy graphics. but they can work pretty well hand in hand if you balance them. But now both of them are poor sadly. But hopefully it will get fixed, on both ends. If they just can get rid of the memory leaks. Im using cement atm to try to patch all the mem leaks, my flat looks like a parkinglot after covering all holes I could find.

They probably did balance it well. It isn't balanced for the high end, it is balanced so that it can run well on a mid end gaming rig. Optimizing graphics for the high end machines is automaticaly making a game that only a certain group of people can enjoy, thus making it niche right from a start.

One of the greatest comercial moves WOW did, is making their graphics engine be able to run on a toaster, plus making their graphics almost timeless. In 5 years AOC will be probably hard to look at, while wow will stil be ... well ... wow.

Probably the only thing bad I would say about WARs graphics is that the ground textures up close look rather low-res, bland and lack depth ... other than that, the buildings look awesome, characters look awesome within their distinct warhammer style limitations. Ofc I didn't see alot of them zet so I might be wrong.

well , I can only say for myself ... I didnt follow war development, but after the AOC debacle I decided to give it a shot, and I must say, at least for now the shot was well worth giving.

I'm no fanboy of any game or company and generally I don't stick with games that are not fun to me. If I feel that I'm not getting what I am paying for, I take my money elsewhere. I have enough work in RL and I come to games to relax and have fun.

War is not the second coming of christ, it is not revolutionary, it has some glitches (that are not in any way gamebreaking). It launched fairly complete with all of its major features implemented, and although there is off course room for improvement, war is a very good game.

If you are looking for a revolutionary mmo then war is not it, however if you are looking for a game that does good what it sets out to do, and modernises some of the MMO concepts that we are all used to and brings them one level up, then give it a shot. In my book its well worth it.

Now if we on the order side could only get a proper tank character - I hate the choice between a midget and a transexual :P

Collision is fine as it is ... if collision is something that ruins your gameplay, you have about a million other games out there that have no collision. It makes people think about positioning, which is a great tactical thing. You can't just run through tanks, and that counts for both friend and enemy - or perhaps you want to be able to hide behind tanks where opponents can't reach you but you can still reach them?