Originally posted by tryklon

Originally posted by Legsbiter

I agree somehow agree with the OP.

I was hoping for something a lot better than that... I mean c'mon... They made Mass Effect and it rocked. Graphics were good, the story was good, the world was huge, etc. What have they done with DAO?

The graphics were also... terribad. And the game had EA sign on the box.

 

^ PS3 version

 

 

ahhh   ps3 version

 

you know what? get a xbox 360 or the pc version and throw that garbage away =P

There is something wrong here.

Dragon Age on the PS3 has better graphics than the 360 version.

It is not just an "opinion" you can check many comparisons in the internet.

When we talk about graphics and Dragon Age from the best to the worst version - PC-PS3-360.

As I said, you can find a lot of comparisons, textures are far better in the PS3 than in the 360 in this game.

About the topic, it is a good game but overhyped as almost all recent Bioware games.

...

Originally posted by Cyborg99

 

Maybe your playing it wrong? Also

 Your opinion = 1 gamer

Wiki "opinions" = Millions of gamers

 

You getting the picture yet?

Yes I got the picture.

The valour of majority.

Of course Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the sandbox and RPGs of the majority.

... just like WoW...

But just like WoW is not enough for some players, Oblivion and especially Fallout 3 is not adequate for everyone. Even players who enjoy sandboxes.

But remember, if majority opinions would be equal to ultimate truth... well...I think you get it...

Originally posted by Cyborg99

 

So I can just say Eve online is a fantasy single player game. Then you say um no it's not heres a link. Then I can just say, Oh your not an expirienced gamer so you don't know. See how silly that makes you look?

Oh I see, I need to simplify... to hold your hand so you can understand. Now I get it.

See, I am not saying Oblivion and Fallout 3 are not "open ended rpg's".

What I am saying is, with the limited and casual game experience Fallout 3 has the openess, progression and sandbox aspects are lacking and to me, sometimes those details were just an illusion or just a small detail into its gameplay. While with some less casual open ended games I had much more feeling into the gameplay. The sandbox experience was much more intense even with some games not related to RPG, so I don't see Failout3 as a real sandbox game, it would need more depth to its "openess".

Is it enough?

You may say... "ooh, but to me, the casual open ended experience I had in Fallout 3 was enough" I am ok with it, but you do prefer to use "links"... you know how ironic it is if we take your first post in this thread right?

Originally posted by Cyborg99

 

Need someone to formulate an opinion, wtf? Get enough people together and that opinion turns into a fact.

So your saying that the majority of people are wrong and you are right or are you just ignoring facts?

You do have some real  issue to understand what is a player and personal experience, right?

Ok, lets try to forget all your flaming and arrogance ...when you can go check the non official Morrowind into Oblivion version, no hand helding.

Just a side note,  you said "Get enough people together and that opinion turns into a fact." ... I see...this is funny, all I can think about when I read this is ... well, nevermind.

Just a tip go get Gothic series, Morrowind, Fallout 1-2, Sacred you may like it and understand what I said. Maybe a player like you that doen't like linearity and hand helding ( and all the irony on it) may have some good time with these games.

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Cyborg99

 

Incorrect. Gamers like yourself need to be held by the hand and shown what to do and where to go while gamers like myself flourish in sandbox like games. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are my top games because of the lack of direction and freedom of choice.

 

Oblivion and Fallout 3???

Are you serious?

Oblivion is the pure example of a "hand helding" game, not only that, but the whole leveling system is the most casual you can get. When the whole world level with you exploration has no meaning.

Fallout3 is NOT  a sandbox, it is a huge map with little to no content where only the main storyline is polished, in the end Fallout 3 is a linear and "small" game with the illusion of openess caused by its map. Fallout 3 is a shallow action RPG that was made with the intention to seduce COD gamers and unfortunately killed what Fallout originaly was. Not a bad game, but not a true fallout, not a true sandbox, and trust me you are not "special" because you like it.

Morrowind would be a better example , even GTA, Saints Row and Infamous would be a better sandbox example.

Sacred (one and two) and Gothic series are better examples than Oblivion and Fallout 3. To tell the truth Sacred 2 is much more "open" and less "hand helding" than Oblivion even with its issues.

 

 

 

 

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

Fallout 3 and Oblivion are in there. Where's your link?

 

Read again what I said.

Oblivion with its hand helding system, leveling system and casual approach destroy all the meaning behind exploration. Compare it even to its predecessor Morrowind.

Fallout 3 with its linear main story and lack of polish, progression and side quest content make the sandbox aspect much more of an illusion and a real feature.

What I said will not be in the wikipedia, it is based on player experience.

If you are basing your opinion and game experience into "links", it would be pointless, right?

So you need a link hand helding you even for you to develop an opinion? I see...

Anyway, about your "sandbox" and "hand helding" argument... trust-me you need to play more games.

Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the supra example of casual modern RPG, you and every randon today´s Shooter player has them as favorite "RPGS", "Sandbox" ;)

 

Umbral says, "Fallout3 is NOT a sandbox"

Wikipedia (many gamers) say: Fallout 3 is a sandbox

You decide who right......

Cyborg don't be such a kid, if you like sandboxes you would probably even enjoy all the games I mentioned;).

And I will say it again, I didn't have a real "Sandbox" experience with Fallout 3 because its linear main storyline and unpolished and limited side content and lack of progression killed it to me... while other games that are less casuals have a much more open ended experience.

But as you need someone to hold your hand even to formulate an opinion, I am ok with it...

I will give you an example.

Resident Evil 5 is considered a Survival Horror... go play Silent Hill 1-2-3 and Siren and try to see RE5 as a Survival Horror;).

EDIT- and by the way, there is a non official version of Morrowind using Oblivion's graphics in progress...without the annoying Oblivion's hand helding...

...

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Cyborg99

 

Incorrect. Gamers like yourself need to be held by the hand and shown what to do and where to go while gamers like myself flourish in sandbox like games. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are my top games because of the lack of direction and freedom of choice.

 

Oblivion and Fallout 3???

Are you serious?

Oblivion is the pure example of a "hand helding" game, not only that, but the whole leveling system is the most casual you can get. When the whole world level with you exploration has no meaning.

Fallout3 is NOT  a sandbox, it is a huge map with little to no content where only the main storyline is polished, in the end Fallout 3 is a linear and "small" game with the illusion of openess caused by its map. Fallout 3 is a shallow action RPG that was made with the intention to seduce COD gamers and unfortunately killed what Fallout originaly was. Not a bad game, but not a true fallout, not a true sandbox, and trust me you are not "special" because you like it.

Morrowind would be a better example , even GTA, Saints Row and Infamous would be a better sandbox example.

Sacred (one and two) and Gothic series are better examples than Oblivion and Fallout 3. To tell the truth Sacred 2 is much more "open" and less "hand helding" than Oblivion even with its issues.

 

 

 

 

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

Fallout 3 and Oblivion are in there. Where's your link?

Read again what I said.

Oblivion with its hand helding system, leveling system and casual approach destroy all the meaning behind exploration. Compare it even to its predecessor Morrowind.

Fallout 3 with its linear main story and lack of polish, progression and side quest content make the sandbox aspect much more of an illusion and a real feature.

What I said will not be in the wikipedia, it is based on player experience.

If you are basing your opinion and game experience into "links", it would be pointless, right?

So you need a link hand helding you even for you to develop an opinion? I see...

Anyway, about your "sandbox" and "hand helding" argument... trust-me you need to play more games.

Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the supra example of casual modern RPG, you and every randon today´s Shooter player has them as favorite "RPGS", "Sandbox" ;)

Originally posted by Cyborg99

 

Incorrect. Gamers like yourself need to be held by the hand and shown what to do and where to go while gamers like myself flourish in sandbox like games. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are my top games because of the lack of direction and freedom of choice.

Oblivion and Fallout 3???

Are you serious?

Oblivion is the pure example of a "hand helding" game, not only that, but the whole leveling system is the most casual you can get. When the whole world level with you exploration has no meaning.

Fallout3 is NOT  a sandbox, it is a huge map with little to no content where only the main storyline is polished, in the end Fallout 3 is a linear and "small" game with the illusion of openess caused by its map. Fallout 3 is a shallow action RPG that was made with the intention to seduce COD gamers and unfortunately killed what Fallout originaly was. Not a bad game, but not a true fallout, not a true sandbox, and trust me you are not "special" because you like it.

Morrowind would be a better example , even GTA, Saints Row and Infamous would be a better sandbox example.

Sacred (one and two) and Gothic series are better examples than Oblivion and Fallout 3. To tell the truth Sacred 2 is much more "open" and less "hand helding" than Oblivion even with its issues.

Originally posted by Palebane

Not sure about the biggest, but the one MMO that I hope meets my standards the most is the rumored World of Darkness.

CCP will not be able to create a real World of Darkness MMORPG.

What a game like Eve requires is much, much, much more simple than what a World of Darkness game would require.

Blizzard, NCsoft, SOE and all big MMO companies would not be able to create it too, not now, not in the next 3 years.

Today or in the next 2-3 years it may be possible to create a single player game that really express what the World of Darkness is about in a single player environmental and in a more limited experience. It would be the game that Vampire Bloodlines was not able to be... but a World of Darkness MMO? Not now, not in the next years...

Originally posted by AmandaVarone

 

I find nothing wrong with having attractive characters in MMOs. But why is it the art direction for much of these games revolves around having sexualized Eurasian looking characters, females especially 

 

 

In my opinion your criticism has 2 major issues.

1- Hero idealization.

What you mentined happens in western games, movies and almost all "visual" productions too. Even in classic art you will find different types of human figure idealization not only related to heroes. I found it strange that only the Eurasian archetype are a real issue to your eyes.

2-Men idealization.

In eastern games men is sexualized and idealized just like women.

It is easy to find muscular bodies with little to no clothes in western and eastern games.

The idealized image of men in these games are even more idealized than women image. From muscular build to beauty faces the image of men in all game history is the image of an ultra sexual, ultra strong, masculine but with feminine smooth beauty aswell.

I am not against idealizations. From the extreme of beauty to the extreme of uglyness and inadequacy. But I am a bit tired of these repetitive western cliches.

The one related to the eurasian looks and the one related to the sexualization of women... The truth is you find all archetypes in these games but with the appeal to beauty and exoticism and every human image is sexualized NOT only women image.

This kind of western complaing that comes from men and women are much more a reflex of insecurity than anything.

From Von Stuck to Klimt you will find idealized beauty and usually much more focused on the female image while in these games you find idealized human figure.

The hero (male and female) will usually express an image of strength, confidense and strong sexual appeal just like any strong animal of its kind.

...

Laokoko

At level 25 you will see just a small difference, at higher level the difference of performance between a offensive and a defensive Templar in PvP and PvE is huge. Even manastones builds already make a noticeable difference.

Take a look here.

http://www.aionarmory.com/stigmaCalc.aspx?id=6

You can have a very offensive build, a strong defensive one or a mix between the two.

In every big update they are expanding a bit of the stigma system, soon it will probably have more options. But taking my experience as example the final result with stigma builds is very representative. Much more representative than the pratical result of newer games trees like AOC and WAR but with less options than expanded games like Everquest 2 and WoW.

...

Originally posted by jhall229

No one has mentioned sound here, but better animations and shadows??? are you serious?  Hello, LOTRO is DX10 and shadows are much better.  Not that I keep shadows on in EQ2 because it's uses more system resources than it is worth to even keep shadows on IMO.  And animations in EQ2 are pretty damn sloppy if you ask me. 

LOTRO has excellent graphics if you excuse the poor draw distance (and EQ2 draw distance can be pretty bad if there are enough characters being rendered--no matter how high you have the settings).

I try to say something good about my favorite game and people just have to cut me down :/

 

EQ2 is one of the few MMOs using motion capture and maximized is very well done. Even if you don't like them you can't call them techinically "sloppy" sorry. Lets not forget cloth animation.

EQ2 shadows runs pretty well in today´s PCs and it is more intense and present than LOTRO shadows.

DX10 in LOTRO is more of a gimmick than anything. Try to compare the full world dynamic shadows of Everquest 2, AOC and even DX9 games like DOOM3 and FEAR with the shadows in LOTRO ...I am talking about full world dymanic shadows keep it in mind.

Of course I am talking about EQ2 with maxed graphics and we all know that today a lot of players play EQ2 with max settings and no issue.

EQ2, AOC and AION are only MMOs today with complex animations especially if you compare to Vanguard, Lotro and War. You may prefer ring animations but this is a matter of personal taste.

The thing with EQ2 is its artsyle and design it is not for everyone but we can't call it sloppy.

Audio quality, from voice overs to music and effects is also great. I personally enjoy the musical ambiences and orchestrations too but this is a matter of personal taste.

Originally posted by kagda

Fair enough.... but all of that is just pretty pixels, are there any actual "advantages" of going one way over the other... I think my friend was telling me there is a "light" and a "dark" typically in a regular MMORPG this means that the "light" have enhanced healing magic, while the dark have enhanced DMG magic.... is there any difference between the two except the appearences?.... to truly have a game that is not "cookie cutter" is having different combinations of races (each with their own strenghts and weaknesses)  and classes  - not how one looks skinny and the other is fat.

There are some differences in some skills especially stigmas (a different view on talent trees).

The zones are different too with different stories and atmosphere.

There is not good or evil side. The game lore is not a high fantasy expression with good and evil defined.

They look different as a result of the place they live and the type of life they have... if you play the game you will see what I am talking about and understand the lore behind it.

I don't belive a game need combinations of races, some games have only humans some don´t to tell the truth I am a bit tired of the multi race cliche.

As I said they are the same race but in different sides of a shattered world.

...

Originally posted by kagda

 

sorta along the lines of my previous post... I've never played this game, just simply shopping around at the moment.... however... if im understanding you correctly you said that "Bastii" did not experience the "end game" because he only played "CB and OB" and not the Asian version.....i have no idea what CB and OB mean, nor do i really care... however, if i do end up getting this game, i could care less what is in the UK and or Asian version, i just care about the game i am currently playing.... granted the fact that you played the "asian" version is cool, you also have to remember the "asian" players are on a different level then the NA players, and if you don't know what that means, then well - i'll just leave this at that.......... Im here to play the NA game not the Asian game.

I think you misunderstood me Kagda. (not about the race)

OB and CB are open and closed beta. There was no real Closed Beta in NA he didn't experienced the end game because he had no time to do it in open and closed NA game previews. What he said about AION end game is not exacly truth.

The only reason I made this comment is because bastii was calling some users here liers and made a big deal about people lying positively about AION... and then he start lying here... just that.

Chinese and Korean versions are up for a long time so a lot of western players already experienced AION´s end game in asian servers ...(not the case with Bastii).

I did not say that most people playing in NA and EU servers did not experience end game (now players are starting to experience it) because they are not at the same level of asian players. It was just a matter of time (and bastii lies).

I enjoy AION in both versions.

Kagda

AION has one playable race but 2 different civilizations.

Elyos and Asmodians are the same race with distinct development with unique lore and appearance.

This is not the typical MMORPG detail but it fits well into the game universe and feels unique in a roleplaying point of view.

You can create an unique character (fat, strong, skinny) and that helps to create a more deep sense of civilization, just like in human race we see all kind of different humans...

Originally posted by bastii

 

Yes I did, we were the first level 2 guild on Siel too in CB. Were you? Thought not.

Leaving you trolls alone now, because that's all you do, instead of arguing and using arguments, you throw out accusations.

No Bastii I didn´t want to play the NA CB and OB (and I had acess to both) as I was playing the end game from the asian version.(edit-just check my post history here and you will find some posts expressing a bit of my experience into the chinese version since the chinese ob, just a little bit of information but it will work as proof).

Confess Bastii maybe you played CB and OB ( as a miriad of NA players) but you didn't experienced AION´s endgame.

A lie is a lie and you lied about AION´s end game definition and about you experiencing the end game in CB.

I agree with you lying players and reviews are an issue :).

...

Originally posted by bastii

 

EQ = 54 man raiding endgame

Aion = 2 group zerging endgame

 

Did you experience AION's end game Bastii? Based on what you said, I think you did not.

... and I thought you were the one saying that lying "players" are a big issue among MMORPGs.

...

Originally posted by Shol

Written on 10/02/09 8:52:37 PM:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3130298#3130298
It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.

Add in the hacking.

Add in the gold selling.

Add in the HUGE grind.

In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.

 

 

Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.

The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time.

SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.

---

Written on 9/12/09 3:43:24 PM:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3083347#3083347

Champion's Online, Aion is a copycat Korean grindfest.Champion's Online, Aion is a copycat Korean grindfest.

 

Hes just as lying as he claims the others do.

And about the "people claiming that VG has no bugs at launch" I can only laugh.

Interesting...
 

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Gameloading

How is getting quest in any alternating the gameplay? You enter a town, speak to everybody with a question mark above his head and then perform the quests one by one. How is that different from Aion?

I haven't played Aion yet (beyond the first few levels) so I won't comment on it, but in regards to alternating gameplay in WoW, I'll give you a list of the quests that are currently in my journal as I level my Paladin in WoW.

1. Go to location, disturb a next, kill a huge eagle that turns up to protect it. Harvest it's eyes, use a magical disguise to turn into a wolf and go take the eagle eyes to the alpha wolf in the area.

2. Kill boars and harvest 6 x meat to feed some walrus guys.

3. Go talk to a goblin.

4. Kill 16 undead of various types around a town overrun by scourge forces.

5. Locate and kill some scourge warlocks, collect their magical devices and use them to zap to death some sleeping giants before they wake up.

6. Locate and kill the necromancer controlling said scourge forces.

7. Locate and kill a dragonmaster to obtain his summoning horn; use it to call down his huge skeletal dragon (which I can already see flying around up there) and kill it.

Yes, most of the quests have a common theme (kill stuff) but there is a lot of variety there. Far more so than standing in one place and repeatedly killing something in order to make ones XP bar go up.

I don't see why you have the impression that in AION you will just stand in one place and repeatedly kill something in order to make ones XP bar go up.

In AION there are a ton of kill quests, crafting quests, lore related quests and PVP quests. If you know where to look and if you do group questing you will not need to to "stand in one place and repeatedly kill something in order to make ones XP bar go up."

Group questing and hunting gives a huge amount of XP.

Leveling in AION IS slower than WoW, a bit more similar to the early days of Everquest 2 some people will call it "grind" (just keep in mind it will be quest grind, especially group oriented) some people will like it.

Edit- AION leveling and PvP is much, much more enjoyable in groups, people who want to reach end game fast alone or be a loner avenger in PVP will have hard times.

...

A lot of users here are confusing, graphic, artstyle and personal taste even with the fact the 3 aspects compose a game´s visuals.

Everquest2, AION and AOC have the better animation and character modeling (by better I mean more sophisticated not a matter of taste).

Vanguard has superior textures, vegetation and indoor locations geometry  if we compare to LOTRO

Everquest 2 (even using old shaders) and AOC have the best dynamic shadow system.

AION has superior character modeling and animations than LOTRO and AOC.

LOTRO only has nice natural open field locations but they are technicaly inferior if we compare to Vanguard natural open field locations.

Models and indoor locations in Lotro are very outdated comparing to other MMOs. (this is why every LOTRO screenhot we see are from open field locations usually without characters or without close ups). DX10 doesn´t help to "fix" these graphical inconsistencies.

Vanguard has some fantastic aspects but characters and animations are horrid.

AOC has some nice aspects too but vegetagion is out of place and outdated (this is what happens when you try to update an ancient engine to use the latest shaders).

 Lotro has nice "green" locations but it is by no means sophisticated even with dx10 gimmick and higher resolution textures (AION could use some of these).

A lot of people like LOTRo´s artstyle and a lot of people love AION artstyle, but when we talk about advanced graphics (indoors and outdoors), animations and models (the techinical side of 3D)  AOC, AION, EQ2, Vanguard (and of course the upcoming Tera and some other games) all have some strong points and some let downs.

Edit-In my opinion AION has a superior visual composition than Lotro and AOC as it is the most visualy balanced of them. You don't find huge visual "holes" in AION like you can find in LOTRO (characters and animations) and AOC (vegetation and functional issues).

...