The story better be good!  Unlike Gene Roddenbury, George Lucas is still alive and well.  So if the story isn't good, you better believe heads will roll.  I suspect that's why STO failed so miserably, because poor Gene was not alive to keep and eye on his now banalized IP.  Sad, so sad :(

Originally posted by loves2play

Originally posted by hidden1

I've always had a dream, that one day, a company would be brave enough to make an MMO w/out any economy whatsoever.  But alas, those gold farm/spammers would probably become "item spammers" selling/collecting items to re-sell them for live currency.  Well at least it would be harder for them if the game had no economy.  I would imagine it would make for a community of trading.  Still could be interesting to see an MMO like that.

/shrugs

 What you have said haphazardly could be the only solution to gold spammers!  From the mouth of babes!!!!

 Yeah it's a simple sollution, but still has a weakness.  I can still see them selling items for real money, but I bet items would be harder to come by than farming for gold.  I like more the idea of not having any economy, not necessarily to stop or slow down the gold farmers from spamming, but also because it would be interesting to see the community dynamic that would be "trader-based" economy than a symbolic monetary one.  Will this slow them down?  Maybe.  Will this stop the gold farmers?  Probably not.

I've always had a dream, that one day, a company would be brave enough to make an MMO w/out any economy whatsoever.  But alas, those gold farm/spammers would probably become "item spammers" selling/collecting items to re-sell them for live currency.  Well at least it would be harder for them if the game had no economy.  I would imagine it would make for a community of trading.  Still could be interesting to see an MMO like that.

/shrugs

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by Nshtiel

You are obviously clearly angry.  Step away from the keyboard, sir! Everyone that plays MMO's knows they are never buying a "finished" product at launch. It just depends on how finished.

Before the Beta ended people cited problems but many fans/players had the belief that these problems would not possibly be allowed to persist at launch, and that they would be fixed.

Nobody is insane, or lacks any common sense; however, they may have had their faith in SE rattled. SE is quite a prestigious company, and when they say X, I will, in good faith, believe it and give them the benefit of the doubt. It just didn't work out this time...yet?

 You should be buying a finsihed product at launch. Or at least a well polished product with few bugs and actual things to do.

 I agree w/ you sir, this is the case w/ console games, but unfortunately doesn't seem to be so with PC releases.  I think part of the reason why this is, is due to these companies and the consumer growing used to the idea that mmo's are never finished products at launch.  Just wished ppl understand that they have an impact on how these companies develop due to their outlook on what launch/release of a title means to them.  Companies have gotten lazy and have that "patch-as-you-go" attitude.  However, that is due in part to the passivity of today's consumers for allowing this behaviour to continue by purchasing the product regardless of it's state of completion at launch.

It's a double-edged sword, and its partially our permissiveness as consumers that help to reinforce this lazy behaviour by those companies to "patch-as-you-go" to prevail.

Originally posted by endersshadow

Originally posted by hidden1

You really didn't state why you think Rifts is a timesink... unless you're a beta tester and can't reveal too much due to the NDA.

 I am not a beta tester, and holy shit do I have to say again why I posted. I felt like, I should speak up after watching this game all this time, and advocating for it, and making arguments for this game that I should say something...almost like a "I am Quitting XYZ mmo". Well when this post bites the dust, I am done.

Which, if so, makes your thread rather a hollow argument.  I didnt come here to argue, just to chat. I dont have some sinister agenda. On the other hand, so many of you are so completely distrusting, I have to say it says something about the world we live in and most certainly about you personally. A thief expects people to steal from them.

The way you write about it, gives the appearance that you're either playing/testing it now, or you're just being disengenuous.  So my question to you is that are you a current/past alpha/beta tester of this title? Or, Are you just basing your opinion on what you've read about this title thus far? 

Disingenuous, no. You wont meet a more honest, more frank person. I am basing my opinion on what we know so far. And while so many of you are linear thinkers (not a bad thing), I am an abstract thinker. In other terms, I am more of a big picture guy. With what RIFT is trying to accomplish, it would not make sense if this game wasnt at the least  a little more time consuming/Oldschool Hardcore  compared to GUILD Wars 2 or World of Warcraft. Which is why if I play any mmo in the near future, GW2 would be it.

Another question, though this might be considered rhetorical in nature... Isn't coming to MMORPG.COM and posting threads, w/ a full rating on your profile, on a profile made in 2010, w/ 300+ posts makes this website a bit of a "timesink" for you sir?

You are right it is. But I can respond to your post at anytime in the day. On the other hand it is still something I have considered quitting.

Am I done yet? Can I leave now?

What do you mean Lie detector, truth serum? 

 Well thank you for answering honestly, and somewhat thoughtfully.  I do appreciate it.  And you're correct in stating most of us are distrusting.  There are 2 reasons in my case, and I'd just like to explain it for yourself and any others who so might be inclined due to curriosty as such is human nature.  1.  I had seen and been a part of the now legendary flame war/posts of the Darkfall days.  Those times both during pre-launch/post-launch were turbulant times for MMORPG.com... Never before have I seen such flame wars, and downright verbal villany occur.  So many posters seemed either passionate, or just downright evil w/ their remarks, not wanting to resolve anything, but simply posting for what seems to be a greifing/pvp threadwars.  To say that I was dissulussioned by the community and people in general is putting it mildly.  I hence became hardened a bit about posters sincerity, and hence grew a somewhat battle-hardened and cynical to that end.  So you're correct in stating that we don't trust right away a simple posting of someone's oppinion.  Life, and posting on this site, shouldn't have to be the hardest chore... but for some of us battle-hardened posters it has become a perception modled by continous disappoints by those disengenous trolls who like to encite, and for some reason, get a kick out of inciting annimosity and/or disharmonous dialogue exchange.  For this I appologize to you good sir, and hope that you are not one of those disengenous ppl out there.  You don't seem to be from your passionate response and that is refreshing to see every now and again.  I tip my hat to you.  Now, 2.  Many of us gamers, and MMORPG gamers have been let down in some for or another by gaming company's inability to deliver that next "big thing" in online gaming.  For one reason or another, wether it was missmanagement of a companies money, or a disconnect between the game development team and its potential target audience, this trend has been so prevalent in our gaming environment, that a few of us have become quite jaded by their respective failures.  And thus, yes we gamers have become more jaded, more mistrusting, and cynical.  I don't think thats a matter of being right or wrong, but It's a natural outcome of past to current game releases that have in some way or another let down the community.  I hope that my cynical approach doens't put you off to our community here, and hope you understand us better by my lengthy, if not infomative reasoning.

Thank you for listening and responding,

hidden1

You really didn't state why you think Rifts is a timesink... unless you're a beta tester and can't reveal too much due to the NDA.  Which, if so, makes your thread rather a hollow argument.  The way you write about it, gives the appearance that you're either playing/testing it now, or you're just being disengenuous.  So my question to you is that are you a current/past alpha/beta tester of this title? Or, Are you just basing your opinion on what you've read about this title thus far?

Another question, though this might be considered rhetorical in nature... Isn't coming to MMORPG.COM and posting threads, w/ a full rating on your profile, on a profile made in 2010, w/ 300+ posts makes this website a bit of a "timesink" for you sir?

Hellgate was a good example of a hybridization of fps and mmorpg character progression.  Was fast-paced, exciting boss battles, and addictive gear drops from head to toe that hardcore Diablo fans would have loved to collect.  Though it wasn't successful in that states, but not from the game failing, but more the missmanagement of budget and money by FSS.

Borderlands, while successful, is an online multiplayer game, while close to what you're looking for, it's not a true MMORPG.

There's Huxley, though that is more fps than rpg in its style.

Oddly enough there is a fps mode in Wahammer, however that plays more like a true mmorpg than an fps, since it's a "click tab for auto-lock on target/opponents" control.

While I haven't really answered your question, I hope that you realize that there seems to be a growing trend developing as more and more title (that is forthcoming), such as Tera Online, Rifts Planes of Telara, are more twitch-based hybrids like Hellgate in regards to gameplay.

I believe this trend is growing due to what seems that gamers of this generation, seem to be bored w/ the old models of point-n-click (or Tab-lock-ons) and need the mmorpgs of the future to immerse them in twitch-based gaming while still feeling the satisfaction and/or control over their character/class progression.

In other words, I believe this is just part of gamer's evolution, and the companies have perhaps taken notice (or so it seems).  Let's hope this trend grows. 

I've often suggested in other threads on TOR that I'd like to play as my 2 favorite races.  Jawas and Ewoks.  Don't think that's going to happen tho.

It sounds like it will play like Hellgate and Borderlands... and not have that annoying auto lock that makes games less immersive and boring... well at least for me it does.  I'll give it a try... and yeah I say it's a fantasy game... remember we do this to escape from reality... so what if it's an ubber long lance that's not mounted... if it's unrealistic?... so what, isn't that the point of escapism into MMORPGs?  (These are rhetorical questions and merrit no answers, let them stand as my opinionated statements... thanks)

I just recently returned, out of sheer boredom and lack of Hellgate in NA region... it's okay, ,looks decent at 2560x1600 resolution... my one complaint is only crafting amulets... i want to craft weps/armor ect... is that possible?  Maybe cuz i'm only lowbie still?

Every game is more of the same since the atari 2600 days... sheesh... just give me my eye candy graphics and animations, and enough different types of loot to make even the most ardent loot Diablo loot wh0rez jealous, and maybe gameplay hybridization of Hellgate's 3rd/1st person fps/rpg elements and i'll be quite happy.

Maybe they'll change their minds by '11.  I hope they include an alchy... I mean aren't magic-users one of the "standard" classes as a base for probably all fantasy-based MMO's?

Well I did enjoy the single-player game and will try the multi-player for sure... just hope they change it so that you can use the alchy.

I'm glad this game is being ressurected from it's previous beta incarnation.  This title as well as Torchlight 2, and Diablo 3 are amoung some of the future action-rpgs that I'm waiting for.

Though FSS' Hellgate London went under, thus eventually loosing the IP license to the Korean company Hanbitsoft; however, one thing FSS got right was the marraige between action-fps/1st-3rd person combat w/ the rpg character progression.  You really did feel as though you were playing a true hybrid fps game with the progression of your character as you leveled and choose the skill/magic sets that suited your play style.

The question for Tera is will they be able to successfully marry the two genres as in Hellgate?  And more importantly, will they survive where FSS went under?

Perhaps only time will tell...

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Again, isn't this just another Diablo III wanna be?   The original developers of this game are all at Runic games now, not sure how the new owners are going to do with this title.  Just have to wait and see I guess.

 Yes, they are at Runic, and have just announced a multiplayer Torchlight II scheduled for 2011.  I think I'll wait for that instead of Mythos.

I'm looking forward to this game as well but more because I was a big time Neocron 2 fan.  If this is successful for Reakktor Media than hopefully they could bring out a sequal to Neocron.

Bring back Neocron!

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Isaralas

No, most games are trash because vets use Beta TESTS as an e-peen badge instead of actually testing the game.

So a game being Awesome or Suck has nothing to do with game design and technical expertise, but is 100% reliant on whether vets actually test the game once it's in beta?  That's a rather...unique theory.

 Software QA can make a title suck, yes.  Anything can be good by design and technical expertise, but if it's poorly executed, namely VERY BUGGY gaming experience, than yes some gamers would consider that "suck" and "not awesome".  If it's just a few bugs, and the code is solid (I.e., stable, doesn't crash, very few to NO graphical glitches), then it's "awesomeness," design, and technical expertise will shine through.

Seems logical to me...

my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Isaralas

No, most games are trash because vets use Beta TESTS as an e-peen badge instead of actually testing the game.

 Quite possibly it could be a factor why it seems that most mmo's are released a bit early.  They're only going to be bug free in relations to what bugs are found... and which ones are reported.

As an ex-tester, working apporximately 14 years in console testing 1st and 3rd party games for Saturn, Dreamcast, PlayStation 1 and 2, it's interesting to note that beta testers for pc who are basically anyone that signs up for it, are not really true testers.  And when I mean "testing," I mean to state that yes, I got a paid salary, paid taxes, etc... It was a real job, and not like they do it on PC.

The problem with PC games is that they need to put more money on the QA aspect, and not just put the dollars into development only... they should hire an internal test crue of professional testers (I'm sure some do, but seems like most like to "hire" free labor beta sign-up gamers.)

Perhaps if PC game devs. follow closely the console model for QA they might have less patches, and a more professionally pollished product upon public release.

my 2 cents.

The ideal is novel, however, when you add to the equation human greed, then as the British like to say, "It all goes tits up!"  Frankly, the same can be said about Democracy, Socialism, Communism.  On paper there are some noble ideals behind all those... and again add human greed to the equation and we got the same situation.

Basically f2p isn't a bad idea, it's just the human equation that seems to ruin the possiblities.

EDIT:  I think f2p could be feasible if the MMORPG in question could have 2 servers, one f2p w/ item shop and one p2p.  That way if I like the game, I'd switch over to p2p model.

Originally posted by Kyleran

I think it would make a better 3 sided MMORTS type game a la Planetside.  It should be more focused around battle and combat, with resource gathering a 2ndary afterthought much like the single player game.

 Yes, I could already see players, or better yet, guilds competting for city domminance by setting up structures and automated city defenses and doing guild-mass resource gathering.  One wonders if they'll do it like AoC or DF, or if they'll allow any area possilble to create guild city-states controlled not just by race but by specific guilds... Thanks for the inspiration, Kyleran.