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All Posts by Ender4

All Posts by Ender4

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1668 posts found

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Ender4 Old MMORPG's were trying to emulate the pen and paper RPG. Create a big world to explore and adventure in. New MMORPG are emulating single player computer RPG. Create some scripted content to play through. Instead of creating a world they are creating games. If that is what the player base wants it is what is going to be made whether you or I like it or not.
yeh .. and i like it.

But how is old mmorpg trying to emulate pnp RPG? PnP RPg is about small group dungeon adventures ... it is not about a big world to explore.

In fact, if you try to keep walking .. you DM probably will turn you back .. and there is NO massive MP ... because that is not possible with pnp.


Not if he was a good DM he wouldn't. PnP RPG was about exploring a world, sometimes it is about small dungeons and sometimes it is a sweeping epic experience. Old MMORPG were made for fans of D&D and Gamma World etc. They were built with the idea that you could create your own stories.

Newer MMORPG are generally being built to tell an existing story.

You and I just want very different things Nari, your things are winning which is why I don't play any MMORPG currently. When a new one comes out that focuses more on being a world and less on being a game I'll come back. Hopefully it happens eventually. I want the players to drive the content, I don't want the content to drive the players.

Old MMORPG's were trying to emulate the pen and paper RPG. Create a big world to explore and adventure in.

New MMORPG are emulating single player computer RPG. Create some scripted content to play through.

Instead of creating a world they are creating games. If that is what the player base wants it is what is going to be made whether you or I like it or not.

Well PvP should not be the focus of a sandbox, it should be part of it.

There hasn't been a real PvE sandbox game yet. One where your actions can actually significantly change the world. The technology just hasn't been in place for it yet.

Having seen gameplay footage of Black Desert it will be terrible, clunky terrible gameplay killed WAR and it will kill this game too. THe basic game has to not be awful to ever survive.

SWTOR burned up its budget on poor voice overs for even worst story quests. You could make a game much better than SWTOR for a lot less cash, they just wasted a ton of money on stuff that doesn't matter much.

I can call my cat a dog all day long, it won't make him a dog.

Games like D3 and SC2 are not MMOs just because they are online. MH is not an MMO. PS2 you can call an MMO though. Never played H1Z1 so cannot comment on it.

I really wish I could like Eve, it does so many things right. The problem is the basic gameplay just isn't fun at all. The combat model they chose to go with is just downright boring and while the non combat aspects are fun they just aren't enough to keep me playing.

Same issue with TSW. If I'm going to play a quest based game that would be the one because they did it the right way, but the combat is just awful so I can't stick with it. When I'm trying to just run by everything because I can't stand doing one more fight it really kills the game.

I will add that I don't think I ever quit a game because it was too hard. I quit them because they are too easy all the time though. I'm sure there is a level at which it becomes too hard and I would quit, I just haven't found a game that does that. Unfortunately most games get derailed in difficulty because they have to pander to the LCD, especially games like this that are aimed at a large diverse group of players.

To use a non MMOPRG example. D3 was not too hard when it first released and people cried and cried until they made the game a complete joke. I finished the game with a 2H Monk with poor gear while people were saying you had to go sword and board with elite gear to stand a chance. Certain mobs and certain affixes needed tweaks because they weren't fun but we didn't need a global shift in power to where the game became a joke and you could win it in your lvl 59 gear.

Sad fact but that is how the gaming industry works, if the average player finds it difficult it will get nerfed until they find it easy just so the really bad players have a chance.

FFXIV is just awful, if you have to pick between the suggestions on this page so far go with TESO. It isn't a great game but it will keep you busy for a while. GW2 is solid too though I disliked a lot of things about it but those were mostly personal preference. Unless you love the FF series in general I can't state strongly enough to skip FFXIV, one of the worst MMORPG made in recent years.

Originally posted by Distopia
Instancing came to be to ensure the mechanics of an encounter played as intended, this was one of the biggest issues in open dungeons, environments that were meant to be dark and foreboding often turned into what looked like a hub of tourism. The silly naked guy running around or an army of them, the lack of enemies to fight because everything is constantly dead, the large group taking everyone's kills... etc..

You're also forgetting that scope for a game can only be so wide. Creating the size of world you're talking about is a monumental task, when you also have to flesh it out with mechanics as well as content. As well as offer a robust class/skill system, etc.etc.etc...So you have to think whether what you're saying would fit into any studios scope for a game...When considering modern development practices as well as general expectation of production value.


What many want is to experience the content, not watch it being robbed from them by mechanics that have long since been fixed... What you said is not an accurate representation of what many players want, as well as it shows a failure to see that what you view as "quality" is not universal.

I view any system that allows others to ruin your experience or screw up intended mechanics as bad design, and no where near quality. As did many in the past, that's why it was done away with..



Simply not true at all. Instances came around to cap the players in the content so it wasn't over farmed. They started with the very first MMORPGs because the servers couldn't handle more than a handful of players on screen. Later on they were added to games as overflow for popular zones. They then got added to games to allow the developers to create less content for more players. Instances are nothing but a bandaid to allow less content to be used by more players and nothing else.

The use you suggest for them is part of why instances are so awful though. I don't want the developer controlling my content and making me play it as intended. I am the player, I should control how and what I do. Dungeons were so much more fun before they were all instanced and so much more fun when you could do them with less than an ideal group or heck even solo them at times. Instancing is taking the lazy way to content and nothing more and devs should be ashamed of themselves for flocking to it. These are multi player games and you should not cringe when another player gets in your path, you should embrace it as part of the genre. If someone else crossing your path in a dungeon ruins your day than go play a single player game and stopping ruining the MMORPGs.

Sure people like instancing because they want an easy path through the game with no chance for conflict with other humans, that doesn't make it a good thing though. Instancing is a large part of why these games are so terrible nowadays. The only MMORPG really worth playing right now is Eve and that doesn't heavily use instancing. Instancing is a cop out to let devs create less content and to cater to the single player crowds who like to pretend they like mmorpgs.

ESO is a pretty poor game and it is going to drop in price in a couple of months, I'd just wait on it personally. Right now the prices are inflated because it just went F2P but that price is just going to go down in the future.

Originally posted by DMKano
How many "WoW clones" exist?

I can think of couple popular ones - Allods and Runes of magic.

Sure there are some lesser popular games - like Alganon, 4story, Forsaken world.


But seriously - as far as AAA games go - "wow clone" is thrown about often - I can't think of a single AAA game that is an actual "WoW clone"

RIFT, SWTOR, AION, WILDSTAR, DCUO etc. These are all basically the same game as WoW.

Compare SB to WoW or SWG or UO or DAOC and you have completely different experiences. Most of the current games just play like WoW. Do quests, lobby dungeons, meaningless PvP in a box, end game is just a gear grind etc.

People don't say clone as in exact copy, that is what this word means in this context. Just because you can't understand the usage of the word doesn't mean the usage is incorrect. Being purposely obtuse does not make your agument useful or intelligent.

Anyone who says they get treated different playing a female in a MMORPG is either acting different when they play one or is jerking your chain, it just doesn't happen unless you are actively acting differently when you play a female.

Never noticed any difference in treatment even back in the old MUD days when online gaming was pretty new.

I play it because staring at just male models gets boring after a time and because sometimes I like to name my characters after my wife or daughters. I make about 50/50 Male and Female.

For those who answered F2P, keep in mind there hasn't been a single AAA F2P MMORPG yet so you really don't know how that would go. I would think most AAA companies will move to B2P considering what a failure P2P has been recently, but you can't really judge F2P because for MMOPRG at this point it barely exists. You have failed games that moved to F2P and you have small developers just trying to get a game out and that is it for MMORPG.

I won't play a game if it is really easy like a Marvel Heroes or the current WoW.

I won't pay a sub for a game unless it is a really special game in some way. There is no good reason to put a sub fee on games anymore unless you have something like actively run events so you are hiring loads more staff than most games do. It is just an outdated payment model.

I won't play another game that doesn't offer open world PvP on at least one server. PvE is just way too boring without PvP to mix it up.

I doubt I'll play another game that heavily instances the dungeons.

I doubt I'll play another game that delevels you in lower level content, it is just a clunky and poorly thought out mechanic. Letting me do it on purpose is fine but forcing it is just terrible.

Basically everything games have done in the past 10 years is a big no no.

Originally posted by Superman0X

Originally posted by Ender4  

Originally posted by Superman0X

Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal If a mmorpg approaches the success of World of Warcraft do you think we will go through another decade of emmulation?
Yes. It has already happened multiple times since WoW.
  It has? The only other really successful western game is Eve and it hasn't been copied. Most of the rest of the western games released in the past 10 years are just clones of WoW. I mean yeah every new idea that is embraced crops up in more games, but there hasn't really been a 2nd WoW yet unless you want to say Eve is and well Eve was released before WoW.
There are several examples... let me give you two.


Farmville. This started the social gaming trend. 

League of Legends. This started the Moba trend.


I am sure that you are going to disagree with either of these being an MMORPG. However, as is constantly complained about on these forums, the definitions have been changed because of games like this.... so it is a bit of a mute point.

Neither of those are MMORPG so I fail to see your point? IF you are going to call LoL a MMORPG you might as well call every single game with any online function a MMORPG and that is ridiculous. They are MMO's, there is no RPG in there.

Also as I pointed out in my post yes I know that Eve was released before WoW, but Eve didn't achieve its wild success until a good bit after WoW did. Eve is the only MMORPG since the release of WOW that really exploded in popularity and kept that popularity the same way WoW has.

Originally posted by Dauntis
So many people that have commented on this sound like old folks trying to convince kids how much fun it is to use a manual lawn mower instead of a riding lawnmower because it is "fun" and builds character.

I think MMOs are just as social or more so than they have ever been, but now it is on the player to be social and not forced. I didn't find spawn camping with random groups that much more social than fill ins on randoms. Well that is, when you actually bother to take time to converse.

It is true though, with less downtimes there is certainly less chat time, unless you make the time to chat.

They simply aren't as social as they used to be, don't know how anyone can say they are~. I prefer using a manual mower though so what do I know, it is more relaxing and you don't have to worry about running things over. Only reason to use a riding mower is if you have a lawn so big that a manual mower just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Superman0X

Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal If a mmorpg approaches the success of World of Warcraft do you think we will go through another decade of emmulation?
Yes. It has already happened multiple times since WoW.

It has? The only other really successful western game is Eve and it hasn't been copied. Most of the rest of the western games released in the past 10 years are just clones of WoW.

I mean yeah every new idea that is embraced crops up in more games, but there hasn't really been a 2nd WoW yet unless you want to say Eve is and well Eve was released before WoW.

Again EQ didn't have a trinity. Pulling, crowd control, debuffing were just as important and you could not have a single pure DPS and still thrive. In raids you generally had to have off tanks with healing rotations specific to them etc. It was almost never the tank holds aggro, the healer heals him and everyone just DPS's like in WoW.

GW2 has just about the worst PvE combat of any game out there so stop with the GW2 does it right. The WoW trinity is bad too, especially after the last few expansions turned it into an AOE fest. A truly good non trinity game would allow your tank to protect people by using short term abilities to reroute damage. Healers would protect people with short term defensive spells etc. GW2's idea of doing away with the trinity is fine but the implementation was atrocious.

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