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All Posts by Ender4

All Posts by Ender4

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1496 posts found

People want a game to play, not a world to experience. These games cost a ton of cash and they need a healthy player base and just not enough people want to actually experience a world.

I think a lot of what EQN is trying to do might move people back towards playing in a world though. Logical spawn AI, procedurally generated content etc are huge steps forward in living in a world and not just playing a game.

Archeage is a pretty awful game, people just haven't realized it yet. NO end game, piss poor PvE, mediocre PvP that is thrust on you so the carebear crowd will hate it. I expect most servers to be ghost worlds in under 3 months to be honest.

They are a sign that giving people incentives to stay AFK and allowing them to bypass the queue by sitting at character select means that nobody ever logs off so even though the servers are barely full everyone sits in a queue for no good reason. This game is nowhere near the success you seem to think it is.

The PvE is simply awful and the sandbox PvP most people haven't reached yet.

The Secret World said they would never go F2P either and they did in under a year I believe? I still call that game a success though. It is just a really hard thing to define unless you just want to talk financials and then we don't generally get legit numbers for that.

It is really subjective so there just isn't a benchmark.

I consider Rift a failure but it sold well at release and it made a profit I'm sure. The fact it had to go F2P so fast and the population died before going F2P to me made it a failure. However the game is still going and it probably is even making a profit at this point. I completely quit following the game other than trying it one more time a few months ago and hating the monetization model they went with.

I consider GW2 a success even though I ultimately didn't care for it. From what I've seen they have kept a really solid player base and I expect if they do ever add an expansion it will sell well, I won't buy it unless they add a PvP server though~.

Well there is no way anyone with a brain plays PoE completely free would be my start, you almost have to get more bank tabs. But AA is really mediocre but better than the normal crap we have been getting like ESO and Wildstar.

Originally posted by Gdemami

Originally posted by dandurin

Examples of sandbox features are terraforming, OWPVP, non-instanced building, farming, and combat, collision physics, auction house, megaserver, user factions, theft, user juries, user crime reporting.


Examples of themepark features are static quests,  instancing, phasing, sharding, NPC vendoring, cut scenes, static factions, software law enforcement.

Nothing of that has anything to do with game beinga sandbox or themepark.

Features =/= design.

Nah he is completely correct. Not sure what your definition of sandbox is but the things he listed are more or less spot on for things you expect in a sandbox game. Anything that allows the player to control how the server progresses is sandbox and each of his suggestions does that.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Pepeq

Originally posted by Arclan  

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by ReallyNow10 Have we "lost the sparkle"? NO What happened was years ago we were served "succulent prime rib" and loved it, and ever since only got "tough-as-shoe-leather-sirloin." We complained for years we wanted the former, and again and again only got the latter, while being told we had "lost our taste for steak". This is what's going on in the MMO world. But... things are changing. EQ Next and Black Desert are on the way.
Getting a 2014 burger for the price of a 1999 steak? Sounds about right.
  Great posts, both of you. Thanks for the hamburger link Lok! One could argue we don't want to pay steak prices, so we are offered hamburger. But F2P costs a great many people much more than the price of steak. I would happily pay steak price subscriptions; but not interested in F2P.
People say this all the time, but that population is even smaller than the niche market hard core gamers make up.


What game, that exists today, right this very minute, that is released and has a subscription model is worth $30 a month to play?  If you can't name one, then the promise of paying more, is moot because no such game exists.  We're not talking future here.  We're not talking altering an existing title to suit your needs.  As-is buddy.  As it is this very second.

 EVE is worth $30, in fact I pay $45 so I can train and fly 3 pilots, and at times have paid $60 a month.

The problem is this is really subjective. I would not pay $5 a month to play EVE. The base concepts behind the game are great but the actual gameplay is just downright dull. I probably wouldn't play it 10 hours a week if you were paying me $5 a week to play it to be honest. If it were just 100% free I'd probably just keep skilling up and playing it a few hours a week at random.

Is there a power curve that underlines the progress through the game? Do I need to get stronger to unlock, access the content as the current content gets consumed?

If the answer is Yes, then it is no sandbox.

This has to be the goofiest definition of sandbox I've ever heard. This has nothing at all to do with the topic.

I guess the reason it doesn't bother me much is I'm not that hardcore of a gamer now anyway. The dude who lives in his moms basement and plays 14 hours a day is going to outstrip me in exactly the same way as the guy with a full time job who spends cash to get ahead of me. The only difference is the dude paying cash is paying for me to have more game content in the future.

As long as the pay window isn't things like you have to pay for a race or a class or you can actually buy things better than what I can find in game I'm fine with it. I don't mind taking a little extra time to get things while someone else spends money, as long as we eventually can end up in the same place.

I will never play another sub game again though unless it is a free game that makes its money solely via subs and doesn't charge for expansions (like EVE basically is now). Sub fees are the one true ripoff in the business since they charge that guy in the basement playing 14 hours a day the same as they charge me for my 14 hours a week and there isn't even a good reason for it anymore as shown by the higher quality F2P games out there. The buy the game, pay a sub fee and buy my expansion type of game is the only true crook in the business.

With F2P I tend to try the game and if the monetization gets in the way of the fun I just quit them. With P2P I just never even try them. You decide for yourself which system companies are going to go towards when a large part of the player base feels as I do?

Anyone who thinks original EQ was on rails is simply crazy~. As for EQ vs UO, EQ was a much better made game. UO had much better concepts behind it. UO was laggy, buggy, exploitable and the PvE was just awful. It is like D3 vs POE. POE has much better concepts behind it but the acutal gameplay and small things for D3 are so much better than it is a better game.

It is a shame we can't get a mix of the two and it was a shame we didn't get a mix of UO and EQ.

Someone in another thread stated it well.

theme park = dev driven
sandbox = player driven

Quite a few aspects of Archeage are player driven so it definitely has some sandbox in it. The trade routes, housing, farms, open world PvP, trial system etc. It isn't a pure sandbox style game like say EVE but it definitely has some elements of it.

General Discussion « ArcheAge
9/09/14 4:10:46 PM

As long as you can get the same gear just from playing more I don't see it being a big issue. There are going to be tons of people who play 100 hours a week that will have better stuff than me. Why on earth would it bother me more when someone spends their money to support the game so I don't have to instead of them just having no life and having better stuff because of it?

You know you can't do everything you want with sand in a real sandbox either. It can only support so much weight, it can only be shaped in so many ways etc. Eve is pretty squarely a sandbox game.

No reason someone can't build a sandbox game with theme park elements that are part of the game and not the entire game. The entire point of free range gaming is you get to decide how you want to play. If they made exploring just as good XP as questing they can both live in the same game.

The issue is more that these newer games have 90% of their content being led around by quests and leaving anyone who wants to find their own path kind of out of luck or at least leveling a lot slower. That should be more 50/50 even for a theme park.

Games definitely need to move away from all content existing for quests. Procedurally generated content will hopefully become big in the future as well.

For the post above, no he didn't. He described Everquest which definitely was not a sandbox game. Sandbox suggests you can actually change the world, you couldn't change squat in EQ.

Originally posted by KalkiAvatar
Well first of all, its alpha combat.

Secondly, we don't know if EQN will be exactly like Landmark or what differences they will have.  Obviously theres going to be some differences in certain areas.

But yea, I do hope the games combat is somewhat like DF1/DFUW combat instead of tab target.

They specifically stated that Landmark was going to have a stripped down version of the combat in EQN so we know that they definitely will be different. I imagine the basic idea of how it works is the same though.

Originally posted by DamonVile
Ah I didn't know f2p = fail. Becoming popular and making lots of money doesn't count once they changed because they got disqualified once they changed over ?  /rolleyes

I think after my 500th wound of the day or having to constantly "balance" myself through thousands of battles I'd hate action combat too. So that would be one way to drive it back into the stone age again. That was the idea right ?

I don't know how anyone can consider Tera a success. /shrug. It isn't driving it back to the stone age, it is adding depth to it instead of making it spam 3 buttons in a pattern like we have now.

Yeah I'm not gonna agree either. The issue is more the shoddy games they are making. Players want the genre to evolve and it just isn't. The only really good MMORPG to be released in recent years was TSW and they failed on the combat model so sadly it is hard to stick with the game when the combat just isn't fun.

Games like Albion Online and EQN at least show there is some hope for the future. We don't just have to be led around in linear quests like all these games are doing now. Even if those games fail they hopefully show enough that other future games will go in that direction. A lot of game designers realize how horribly flawed the current MMORPG model is.

Originally posted by Austrian
EVe is the perfect sandbox IMO, just wish it wasn't just about spaceships but with actual people. But everything else I like except for wardecs and PoS getting destroyed. Honestly I would love it if they combine UO and EvE together. Take EvE economy and skill generation with UOs environment (but 3D).

Yeah it is a shame that Eve is just so boring from a basic gameplay standpoint because the underlying systems are fantastic.

Originally posted by dandurin

Originally posted by rojoArcueid no game is worth those founders pack. Its worth $60 bucks as a retail game (although its free to play). Thats it.

You're not paying $50 or $150 for "the game", you're paying subscription in advance.


With the $150 pack for instance you can convert $120 of that $150 into 8 months of subscription.


So I don't get what you're saying unless it's "no one should ever subscribe to an MMO".

While I disagree with him that the founder pack is never worth it, I will agree to your statement that no one should ever subscribe to an MMO. It is an obsolete model that needs to die since maintenance costs are so low. The only way a sub fee makes any sense is if the game itself is free and all the expansions are too and you are basically paying for the entire game via subs.

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