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All Posts by Deewe

All Posts by Deewe

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Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by Deewe

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Before (AKA Subscription-based w/ Free Trial):

- $15/month subscription to unlock everything

- $xx box fee

- Very limited Free Trial (level 15 cap, limited chat, limited zones/planets, limited crew skills, no Legacy XP, one Flashpoint)

 

After (AKA Free-to-Play):

- No box fee

- Optional $15/month subscription which unlocks everything (same as "Before") and includes additional CC reward

- Free option with no level cap, no zone cap, GTN access, chat, Legacy stuff, etc... most with the option to individually pay more to unlock certain perks

Let's get back to the original quote: F2P is supposed to hook more players.

In the free trial players had access to 100% content (UI included) up to level 15. Ie: give players a good feeling of the game for free.

 

Now in F2P while players can level up to 50 for free they have to pay to be able to totally enjoy the game.

So you find yourself very much hindered and don't really experience the full potential of the game.

 

I still don't follow your logic. You're acting like the Level 15-capped, almost no chat, no Legacy, limited-to-starter-planet-and-capital zones, and a single Flashpoint "Free Trial" had more free content than the "new" F2P option that lets you access almost the complete game for free (as long as you don't really care about hard modes or repeating the exact same activities over and over)... which is just ridiculous.

 

Before: You got an extremely limited free trial where you had to pay a box fee and a sub to progress at all... and once you bought it, you had to keep paying or you lost 100% of your access.

 

After: You get what is essentially an extended free trial where you can access virtually all content for free. Or you can choose to subscribe to unlock everything for that month and when you cancel your subscription, you're still able to log in. Or, you can buy things individually and keep them indefinitely.

 

I fail to see how the new option is worse than the old. It's infinitely more flexible. It's not like having all your action bars available was benefitting you sooo much on a level 15-capped character.

 

For those people that are so worried about running slowly and missing action bars... spend $5 to unlock the action bars and you'll automatically boost your account to "Preferred" status which gives you Sprint at level 1. And you can keep playing with those as long as you want without paying a cent ever again.

We have two different point of view. 

Mine is based on bringing in more players and more cash in game.

In the former system players had access to everything for free till level 15. It's just enought to give them a good feeling of the game and make them sub if they like it.

 

Yours look like being focused on the fact that players have access to more content in the way they can level up to 50.

However you're missing the following" from level 1 players have to actually start paying to experience the full game: ie full UI, head slot toggles and gear unify system, display titles, equip all gear (event and rare), try all the classes/species, sprint, no limitations on WZ, flashpoints, quick travel, revive, name it....

 

In the new system players are hindered (on purpose) by the restrictions. It's not a good way to hook players.

In fact it's like allowing them to come into a fine restaurant give them the main course but they can't sit, have a plate and a plastic fork and they have to pay for everything like knives down to napkins.

Before that you had them sat at a nice table with almost all the bell and whistles providing them the all the starters for free.

 

 

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I have a 50 Sith Marauder and a 50 Jedi Shadow, none of them are playable at 50 with only two shortcut bars. The amount of usefull skills goes way beyond the slots of the two bars given to old customers.

If you pretend you can play at 50 with only two bars, you either lie because you're on an agenda to defend what cannot be defended, or you always play way under the real capacity of your characters.

Sigh there we go again. What is your obsession with this word 'agenda'.

I never used more than two bars for skills on my trooper. That is not a lie but anyone can just log in if they have ful account and check their trooper and see it for themselves.

Last thing i would do is defend SWTOR but what i said about trooper class is 100 true.

Then you don't play your trooper to 100% efficiency. No matter how you put it, what I say is true. You use like 60% of the classe's total skills.

Can you do stupid dailies with only two quickslot bars? Yeah, you can definitely faceroll the keyboard and do those too, even though the fun of that may be disputable. But for Dungeons, or PvP, or any harder content, you're a total gimp.

Umm... i think i can not repeat myself enough when i say all 'important' skills cover two first bar. There are lot of skills that i have never touched and when it comes to PVP trooper has around 5 to 6 skills depending upon the build you are using that are most important. 

For dailies too i have never used more than 6 or 7 skills. 

I think you are just looking to pick  a fight here calling me gimp and all. I never said i faceroll keyboard that is your language not mine. There are lot of useless skills on troopers which can be ignored.

But apparantely anyone who disgarees with you is either a lier or has an agenda.

 

Mind telling what is you AC because with my Gunnery Tropper I do need more than 2 bars.

Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by Deewe

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Before (AKA Subscription-based w/ Free Trial):

- $15/month subscription to unlock everything

- $xx box fee

- Very limited Free Trial (level 15 cap, limited chat, limited zones/planets, limited crew skills, no Legacy XP, one Flashpoint)

 

After (AKA Free-to-Play):

- No box fee

- Optional $15/month subscription which unlocks everything (same as "Before") and includes additional CC reward

- Free option with no level cap, no zone cap, GTN access, chat, Legacy stuff, etc... most with the option to individually pay more to unlock certain perks

Let's get back to the original quote: F2P is supposed to hook more players.

In the free trial players had access to 100% content (UI included) up to level 15. Ie: give players a good feeling of the game for free.

 

Now in F2P while players can level up to 50 for free they have to pay to be able to totally enjoy the game.

So you find yourself very much hindered and don't really experience the full potential of the game.

 

Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by LhynnSaint
Originally posted by potaco

I don't know how so many people can miss the entire point of a F2P conversion. The point is not to let everyone play uninhibited/unhindered for free. The point is to give people options on how they want to play (with the understanding that getting some money from some people is better than getting no money from nobody).

 

Before, you either subbed and had full access... or didn't subscribe and had no access. You either felt it was worth it and paid... or didn't. It was 100% black and white.

 

Now it's more gray:

 

If you're happy farting around with storylines and alts, a few instances, a little bit of PVP, guess what? You can literally do all of that for free now.

If you want to PVP more, you can pay for a pass.

If you want to PVE/raid more, you can pay for a pass.

If you want to unlock a specific race, you can buy it a la carte.

If you want to unlock extra ability bars, you can buy them a la carte for much cheaper than a full subscription.

 

If, at any point, you find yourself wanting to play enough that you would spend more on the "a la carte" items than a subscription, congratulations, you're at the point where a subscription is worth it. Subbing for even a single month gives you unlimited access for that month PLUS ~$5 worth of CC that you can spend after your sub lapses, making it a net cost of around $10 for the month.

 

It's really not that complicated.

Actually i prefer how it was before, the free trial was good enough to hook new players, this new f2p shit will just drive them away. it really isnt that complicated :p

I'm not sure how you qualify that... Seems pretty obvious that the free trial wasn't "good enough" to hook new players....

 

You could also think of the F2P option as an unlimited trial that you can upgrade piecemeal (by purchasing individual unlocks) or completely (by subscribing).

 

And for the people already subscribing, nothing really changes besides the "free" $5 worth of CC they get each month to spend on whatever they feel like.

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Originally posted by Karteli

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5310098

AllisonBerryman

**snip** focus on ensuring we had a solid framework for Cartel Coins  **snip**.

To me sounds like : we had solid money coming from milking the clueless people.

Originally posted by Nonderyon
SWTOR has to take sample from STO (Star Trek online), its a good f2p model.

Not sure about that.

(did not see we already had a topic on the subject so here's a repost)

 

Unless you've been living under a rock for the last week, you can't have missed the executive producer state of the game letter from Jeff Hickman.

Interestingly enough this speech totally fits the empire propaganda from SW universe. 
As such, for some of us fighting from the shadows, we thought it was time to break the mind trick that was cast upon the masses.

In hopes for a better future.
You humble servant,
D.



  1. Our game is awesome. People love it and want to play it.
  2. The subscription requirement was driving away huge numbers of people who do not want to commit to paying monthly.
  3. The frequency of our Game Updates was way too slow. People were leaving because we were not releasing new content fast enough to keep up with the pace at which it was being consumed.

#1: The game is so awesome that most people left to better horizons.
#2: The game was so fun that people refused to pay the exact same price they have to pay for others MMO
#3: Nuff said 

  • Topic #1: Staff: Why are some developers leaving The Old Republic™? How will the game be affected?
  • Topic #2: Bugs: How does testing work? Why do bugs get through? Why did Game Update 1.4 have so many of them? What are we doing to improve the process?
  • Topic #3: Oceanic populations. Are we doing anything about them?

#1 & 2: Whatever you are saying the last game updates brought more issues than before, meaning people implementing features and testing them are either less skilled or less numerous, or both or focusing on the wrong things.
#3: Waiting before eventually shutting down the servers.


That being said here's a more truthful state of the game:

Engine:
  • Still many issues with the engine
  • Can't have UI chat bubbles due to heavy FPS drop
  • Can't get things like draw distance improved
  • Still feels laggy at 60+ FPS
  • No proper preemptive loading management, ie: long loading times
  • Very bad network synchronization: characters positions and response time not synced.

Combat / UI
  • Enemies AI still very poor
  • Targeting mechanic not set properly
  • No target of target transfer
  • No mouse over healing

PvP
  • Even less balanced than the last before iteration
  • Apogee of the Stun Wars syndrome
  • Total lack of World PvP
  • Might be mostly shut down in F2P

PvE
  • Lacks incentive for end game content
  • Side quests gets old fast
  • Specific pets mandatory due to their locked roles
  • Space still lacking any appeal

Content, world, fluff...
  • Very thin updates especially regarding how few is added in the F2P model
  • World feels as dead as before
  • Yet no gear dyes

Bugs
  • Major graphical bugs since the last patches
  • Memory leak
  • Lag spikes
  • LS blades and companions weapons still being left drawn while in passive mode
  • ...

F2P
  • Pricing model makes you pay for the tools needed to enjoy the game
  • Request people to pay for features that are better and free in others F2P MMO
  • Does not bring more content that much.
  • Locks new items in a paying lottery scam (ask for the odds)
  • Is moving away from V.O. story
  • Will lower PvP WZ, operations and flashpoints participation.


All in all it's understandable the game is being bashed by too many people who'd love to like the game. More worrying though is even the notorious websites are starting to pound @SWTOR.
Originally posted by MikeB

I enjoyed the music in SWTOR, but Age of Conan was the MMO that really blew me away when it came to the soundtrack.

The Eiglophian Mountains track, in particular, is a favorite of mine. http://youtu.be/kQxOTMF0NMY

Totally agree, AoC music was great as was neverwinter one too ;)

Let's start with the obvious:

 

The actual model for TOR F2P system is miss which hits a summit with making people pay for UI elements like quick slot bars.

 

Now here's how the model should have been designed:

  • Provide all the tools needed to enjoy the content to the player for free.
  • Have first steps of the story element free for all the classes.
  • Do not restict players on basic choices (Ex: allow players to create only 2 characters but with any of the species for free).
  • Set a very low fee for purchaseable item, consumables.
  • Do not restrict some items to the random packs only

 

The main idea driving the system would be hook the players in game with all the bells and whistles and have them pay for convenience items, quests hubs and fluff like pets, new gear skins/meshes. For the PvP, Operations, space missions have them (eventually) unlock them by bracket levels with a one time purchase.

 

Make sure not to set the pricing too high and here's where the real trick kicks in.

Have the pricing model setting the prices so low that players won't even feel like spending money at all.

While the quests hubs could be in the $5 range all the rest should be under $1

Recommending a piece of gear @ $0.90, no more and  consumables $0.10-$0.15

 

You want players to feel spoiled. This way you'll get more money by having hundred of thousands people spending happily a few bucks than trying to milk players with the actual fees. Also think about the word of mouth you would get: free advertizing = more customers

For prices set at  $0.10, $0.90 people will hardly hesitate before buying stuff at all, in the end spending much more than with a more obvious rip-off system.

 

All in all think coke not Ferrari.

 

D.

 

Originally posted by Elevenb4
Originally posted by bakabröd
i think its a great game. atleast for me.

Yeah same here. Been having a blast since launch.

Well that's true.

 

For some of us we just look at how much better it could have been and it makes us sad.

Especially when we compare with others available MMO.

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

How is it possible to fail (again) with the SW IP when it comes to a MMO???

Astonishing to say the least.

People had hope it would be better than SWG.

Soon enough they realized it wasn't even as good (edited: deep) as the former game (I mean bugs not included) 

Dome kept thinking the game might improve in the future.

Now with the F2P, they are starting to understand that each iteration of the game, from the current crew, is worse than the one before.

 

Really, even if  used to the weaknesses from the cast, I never imagined they could butcher a F2P model that much.

How possibly they can be so clueless, that's beyond logic.

Originally posted by mmoguy43

 

 If you had 2000 Cartel coins, what would you unlock/purchase?

 

I have 2700 CC in bank and honestly as a subscriber there's nothing appealing to me.

 

 

Well I might get the rocket boost but, apart that the shops makes me yawn.

The stuff is either way overpriced ($3 for a chest piece, $9 for a crystal, $12 for a gear set), stupid (Gamorrean axe) or even broken (move while in carbonite chamber and see the result).

 

 

Originally posted by Zinzan
What exactly does any of this have to do with Rogue Squadron?

Empirre propaganda being fought by the rebellion ;)

Honestly, the music in TOR is a miss.

 

Not only most of the time it does not fits the planet/environement but also it seldom fits a SW setting at all.

 

Remove the SW name on in the titles, have people listen to the music and ask them what IP they are from.

It's the exact same thing as the gear art in the game.

Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Deewe

Funny how people point at the automount system, while it's a very good improvement in the MMO world.

 

Before that, you walk/run then stop, summon a mount and hit forward again. Not only it's cumbersome but the devs make sure as soon as you start moving again your summon is stopped.

Speak of an annoying feature.

 

Now watch this movie Darth Maul on Tatooine. Reverse the first few seconds and imagine the following: while running you call your speeder then when nearby you force (or not) jump on it and zoom away.

 

You can apply this concept with any mounts. Zorro (or your character) whistle for his horse while running, grab his collar when closing in then zooms away.

 

Now you speak of an interesting feature.

 

One of the main reasons that WoW and a few others have delays is to allow any one or thing chasing you to catch up and interupt your mounting.   It comes from a certain mentality, thats rather common in some games. 

I'm fully aware of that, still if the devs wanted they could make it so you can't summon your mount while in combat mode. Also don't forget for PvP other players couls also summon mounts on the run and for NPC just give them an iterrupt ability.

Originally posted by Ahnog
Originally posted by Adders

DariusZP, you got it right.

I beta tested SWTOR and decided never to pay anything for it.

My brief summary of why it sucked goes:

  • Outdated and very disappointing graphics
  • A combat system that was as dull and anti-immersion as they come
  • Otherwise same-old, same-old, just with 'Star Wars' and 'Bioware' tacked on
Mind you, various other MMOs which have been released since have also been very disappointing for simple reasons, mainly due to Korean-style grindfest questing and/or tab-select-and-push-the-same-button-combat.
 
I've been playing computer games since 1979 and sometimes it feels as if developers have stopped trying.
 
But, nothing against Koreans, of course (except for the government in the North), you guys make kimchi and dol sot bi bim bap!

Walk a mile in a developer's shoes and you might not critisize them so.

Been there, done that.

 

Well apart a handful of designers I worked with, that think they know better than everyone what the players need, most are great and skilled people.

In fact too often the issue lies in the clueless producers and execs.

 

SWTOR is the apogee of this: being a few key designers made really wrong choices in terms of designs and the execs failed to both manage properly the studio and understand it was going wrong.

 

If you remember when Wow went live all studios were astonished someone could make an MMO with so few bugs (compared to the others at the time). During a post mortem Blizzard explained their success lied mainly in the following points:

  1. Doing runs in the office after 5PM  to kick the devs out, even against their will: it improved the quality of the code a lot.
  2. Working in strike team using am agile methodology.
  3. Quality & polish (the Blizzard way).

The future of MMO lies in the following:

  1. Mixed pricing model based on F2P + RMT + optional Premium sub.
  2. Approved player made content available in the official store
  3. Themed Sandbox
 
1) This models allows the publisher to maximise his profits and even extract the consumer surplus.
 
2) Think UI addons, top it with an apple store concept. Have players develop, skins, animations, meshes, textures, sounds, environments. quests. Allow them to put them on the store and take a very small fee for posting.
 
3) Build a world, populate it with quests but give the players the tool to feel immersed in the game.
 
 
Originally posted by arieste

Their model seems pretty idiotic.  The biggest selling feature of TOR is the class storylines.. which they're not charging for.  Instead of making their money there, they've chosen to charge ridiculous prices for some of the less needed features. 

 

Honestly, i think it's good for the freeloaders but bad for BioWare. 

 

LoTRO remains the best example of a well-done freemium model.  If TOR had followed that model and charged people for quests / zones / dungeons as a one-time payment to open them, they would do much better financially imo.

 

Oh well, now I can go back absolutely free and finish some of those questlines when i'm bored with EQ2 or just feel like swinging a lightsaber at things. 

Exactly, seems their mindset was lure people in game with the free content and then when they are hooked make them pay for the tools needed to enjoy it.

 

It's like being offered a free meal but you have to pay for everything but the plate: forks, chair, table, glass even the light.

Unless you're famished and can't walk you might pretty much lean to the other side of the street in wich only the extras like beer and private lounge are taxed.

Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Ahnog
Nothing new or original here. All MMOs have their strenths and weaknesses, and their bugs. SWTOR is making good progess, and is indeed a great game.

Except SWTOR is moving backwards:

they abandon their strenghts and enhance their weaknesess.

Well to be honest STOR strenght apart the IP was moslty the V.O. class story.

 

With the new model they are going away from V.O. content as too expensive and well too slow to develop.

This leaves us with the rest.

Funny how people point at the automount system, while it's a very good improvement in the MMO world.

 

Before that, you walk/run then stop, summon a mount and hit forward again. Not only it's cumbersome but the devs make sure as soon as you start moving again your summon is stopped.

Speak of an annoying feature.

 

Now watch this movie Darth Maul on Tatooine. Reverse the first few seconds and imagine the following: while running you call your speeder then when nearby you force (or not) jump on it and zoom away.

 

You can apply this concept with any mounts. Zorro (or your character) whistle for his horse while running, grab his collar when closing in then zooms away.

 

Now you speak of an interesting feature.

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