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All Posts by Deewe

All Posts by Deewe

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Originally posted by Snakex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6aaYPsI-eY&list=PL3A3AF4EB3A3CBC70&index=1&feature=plcp

 

Enjoy =]

What a waste of time

Let's be realistic here.

 

Soon enough people will consider either trying their luck in getting nothing or spending their money to obtain the credits needed to buy the items from the AH.

 

While against the TOS, seems to me the gold farmers might be very happy with TOR F2P model.

Originally posted by bartoni33
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I have a 50 Sith Marauder and a 50 Jedi Shadow, none of them are playable at 50 with only two shortcut bars. The amount of usefull skills goes way beyond the slots of the two bars given to old customers.

If you pretend you can play at 50 with only two bars, you either lie because you're on an agenda to defend what cannot be defended, or you always play way under the real capacity of your characters.

Sigh there we go again. What is your obsession with this word 'agenda'.

I never used more than two bars for skills on my trooper. That is not a lie but anyone can just log in if they have ful account and check their trooper and see it for themselves.

Last thing i would do is defend SWTOR but what i said about trooper class is 100 true.

Then you don't play your trooper to 100% efficiency. No matter how you put it, what I say is true. You use like 60% of the classe's total skills.

Can you do stupid dailies with only two quickslot bars? Yeah, you can definitely faceroll the keyboard and do those too, even though the fun of that may be disputable. But for Dungeons, or PvP, or any harder content, you're a total gimp.

Umm... i think i can not repeat myself enough when i say all 'important' skills cover two first bar. There are lot of skills that i have never touched and when it comes to PVP trooper has around 5 to 6 skills depending upon the build you are using that are most important. 

For dailies too i have never used more than 6 or 7 skills. 

I think you are just looking to pick  a fight here calling me gimp and all. I never said i faceroll keyboard that is your language not mine. There are lot of useless skills on troopers which can be ignored.

But apparantely anyone who disgarees with you is either a lier or has an agenda.

 

Mind telling what is you AC because with my Gunnery Tropper I do need more than 2 bars.

Let me try this.

What Whitebeards is trying to say is that yes you CAN use 3 to 5 hotbars for all of your abilities but you don't HAVE to use that many abilities because some if not most of them are the same thing with varying damage and whatnot. So he chooses to streamline and only use the best abilities available for whatever situation he finds himself in. He does not waste time with actions that are lesser than other actions. I agree with that.

That said I also agree that limiting hotbars is assinine and a smack in the face to free players.

Even keeping the bests skills you need more than 2 bars unless you are only doing one type of content/role

Ex: doing only PvP or (single player or flashpoints or operations) PvE.

Otherwise you need to either switch your skills in your quick slot bars, have more than 2 or won't be optimal.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by LhynnSaint Actually i prefer how it was before, the free trial was good enough to hook new players, this new f2p shit will just drive them away. it really isnt that complicated :p
Except it wasn't. If it was, they'd still be doing it.  
Uh Oh! That means SWTOR will not last that long then. Soon they will not be doing it either!   Free trial > F2P for hooking new players. If the free trial wasn't hooking new players, then the F2P version will atract even less The F2P is so restrcitive, and if you are a new player then it is best to sub. The free trial was not so restrictive, and then you get to level 15 and have to sub any way. Either way you still have to sub, but the free trial was less restrictive and more free.
If Free Trials were better at getting new players to play, then every game that went F2P would get even fewer players than when they had a Free Trial. So far, every game that has taken a F2P option gets more players and money than the Free Trial option got them. ** edit ** @Karteli - I'm always surprised when a game company's representative talks in a simple, and straight manner with their audience. I prefer it to be honest.  
Every game that went F2P got more players because their system wasn't as restrictive asTOR's.

 

TOR's F2P makes it a pain to play compared to what they had before.




My experience playing now seems almost exactly the same as it was before. Of course, I'm not all that into the instances and PvP, so for me, the free content is all the content I would have wanted in the first place.

It is entirely likely that SWToR's F2P system won't work. As you've pointed out, their F2P has many details different from other F2P conversions. That doesn't mean that all F2P systems perform worse than Free Trial systems in getting new players.

We'll have to see how their financials go to see if they consider this a success or not.

 

Would the F2P system be based on Turbine's you would (eventually) have paid for class story unlock, meaning bringing cash into the game.

 

Totally agree with your F2P note. A well done F2P mechanic can indeed bring more players and more cash in game. Turbine and others proven that.

 

Actually they are aiming at 3 milion players (check Jeff hickman interview). I serioulsy doubt they will hit it regarding the business model and the competitors.

Originally posted by Omnifish

It seems like they used the Turbine model for FTP, i.e. it's setup to encourage you to sub as it's a better deal and I guess that's the way, ultimately if it's success, people will take that option.

As it stands the FTP option is horribly restrictive but thats the point, your suppose to be wowed by the game by playing for free and then want to sub to it to gain access to everything. I have the feeling that some people don't get that, or they just think their, 'owed', something because it's not SWG2, EA are involved, etc etc.

I mean theres a thread at the moment critising how the legacy system is redundant because you can buy the race unlocks for cartel points. It also claims the legacy system is the main feature of the entire game.  Both of these claims are utter bollocks if your a subscriber, which is what this system is set out to make you. You can still earn perks/rewards from the legacy system and claim the unlocks the other way if you want. The legacy system isn't a real draw anyway.  If your on the fence about this game are you really going to grind the credits needed for speeder piloting at lv10? Probably not.

Ultimately you have to understand there are people on these forums who just hate the game and the company and want it dead.  You only have to see the first few responses, (which don't even address you questions), for proof of that and the numerous threads on these forums.  This place is a refugee for old SWG vets who love nostagila based fantasies about their favortite game.  A lot of those people hate EA and Bioware by extension so treat anything produced by them as a zombie that needs headshotting.

Therefore expecting better from people is just not worth it.  I gave up some time ago, and yes I do still comment on the game and feel strongly that Bioware have made mistakes with this title.  Getting anything like a realistic debate on here about TOR is just not going to be doable when certain people won't let go of their, 'baggage'.

I mean if the F2P model was really built upon Turbine's it would be a huge success because people would be paying for fluff and content.

 

That's what they should have done.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by LhynnSaint Actually i prefer how it was before, the free trial was good enough to hook new players, this new f2p shit will just drive them away. it really isnt that complicated :p
Except it wasn't. If it was, they'd still be doing it.  
Uh Oh! That means SWTOR will not last that long then. Soon they will not be doing it either!

 

Free trial > F2P for hooking new players. If the free trial wasn't hooking new players, then the F2P version will atract even less

The F2P is so restrcitive, and if you are a new player then it is best to sub. The free trial was not so restrictive, and then you get to level 15 and have to sub any way. Either way you still have to sub, but the free trial was less restrictive and more free.




If Free Trials were better at getting new players to play, then every game that went F2P would get even fewer players than when they had a Free Trial. So far, every game that has taken a F2P option gets more players and money than the Free Trial option got them.

** edit **
@Karteli - I'm always surprised when a game company's representative talks in a simple, and straight manner with their audience. I prefer it to be honest.

 

Every game that went F2P got more players because their system wasn't as restrictive asTOR's.

 

 

TOR's F2P makes it a pain to play compared to what they had before.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Why would I be upset about F2P. I am getting my free CC every month, my sub value got lowered to below $8 if you add CC into equation.  I love the cartel packs LOL. And it is great to see lot of newbies in game. I am often just going to lower planets to help folks.

Now that they are done with F2P BioWare can focus on what they should - adding more content to game. That's what will make all SWTOR fans the happiest.

 

Edit. I know that folks who purchased a game and stopped to play are upset, they think they are entitled to play at subscriber level for free.  If we follow this line of thoughts - all subscribers would quit and play F2P - Am I wrong?

/disagree.

 

As a CE owner, subscriber since pre-launch I'm very sad with the F2P system because:

  • F2P < free trial, as people now have to pay to make the game viable at low level = will drive players away
  • No new content, mostly recycled assets
  • Cartel packs scam.
  • V.O. story lowest priority (check Jeff Hickman interview)
 
I don't see the F2P adding more paying players to the game so they won't have the cash flow needed to restart it.
 
 
At this point one thing you can hope for is Disney will take over the IP and have a better SW MMO being built to replace this failure.
Originally posted by Lugors
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by postpwn

I stayed away from this game for one reason:

 

 

The EA logo

EA didn´t write the game design document, mate. /rolleyes

 

EA is a publisher. Bioware was supposed to have a clue how to make a successful game.

 

Doesn´t matter that Bioware is "owned" by EA. They are the ones who designed and programmed the game the way it is.

 

I entirely blame the leaders of Bioware: CEOs, game director, lead developers, executive producer, no one else.

You have the wrong site picture here.  Bioware is just a label that EA has purchased.  It's like saying you have a problem with a Dasani water bottle, but Coke is blameless.  A better example is saying that the new Madden game sucks, but it's EA Sports fault, not really EA at large.

This was not a merger like Activision/Blizzard where Blizzard maintains a level of autonomy.  Bioware is one of many studios that EA bought for the brand name, IPs and personnel.    

Sorry but FromHell is right here.

For the record it was part of the deal when EA bought BioWare. The latter requested to have free reign over the development of TOR.

At a point EA was worried the game development wasn't going as fast as needed.  BioWare sold to EA they needed more time. They also had EA agree into having money spend into the Voiced Over Players Characters.

EA signed the check and at some point when they realised BioWare was nowhere close to have finished the game and would take eons to finish it they set a hard date. Btw, initially the game was scheduled to launch more than 1 year before it did.

The below articles will give you a glimpse of what actually happened. Even the producers acknowledged they where clueless at managing such a big project.

 

 

 

You can blame EA for having set a hard date, but you can't for having hindered its development nor its design choices nor even build such a poor engine.

Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by Deewe

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Before (AKA Subscription-based w/ Free Trial):

- $15/month subscription to unlock everything

- $xx box fee

- Very limited Free Trial (level 15 cap, limited chat, limited zones/planets, limited crew skills, no Legacy XP, one Flashpoint)

 

After (AKA Free-to-Play):

- No box fee

- Optional $15/month subscription which unlocks everything (same as "Before") and includes additional CC reward

- Free option with no level cap, no zone cap, GTN access, chat, Legacy stuff, etc... most with the option to individually pay more to unlock certain perks

Let's get back to the original quote: F2P is supposed to hook more players.

In the free trial players had access to 100% content (UI included) up to level 15. Ie: give players a good feeling of the game for free.

 

Now in F2P while players can level up to 50 for free they have to pay to be able to totally enjoy the game.

So you find yourself very much hindered and don't really experience the full potential of the game.

 

I still don't follow your logic. You're acting like the Level 15-capped, almost no chat, no Legacy, limited-to-starter-planet-and-capital zones, and a single Flashpoint "Free Trial" had more free content than the "new" F2P option that lets you access almost the complete game for free (as long as you don't really care about hard modes or repeating the exact same activities over and over)... which is just ridiculous.

 

Before: You got an extremely limited free trial where you had to pay a box fee and a sub to progress at all... and once you bought it, you had to keep paying or you lost 100% of your access.

 

After: You get what is essentially an extended free trial where you can access virtually all content for free. Or you can choose to subscribe to unlock everything for that month and when you cancel your subscription, you're still able to log in. Or, you can buy things individually and keep them indefinitely.

 

I fail to see how the new option is worse than the old. It's infinitely more flexible. It's not like having all your action bars available was benefitting you sooo much on a level 15-capped character.

 

For those people that are so worried about running slowly and missing action bars... spend $5 to unlock the action bars and you'll automatically boost your account to "Preferred" status which gives you Sprint at level 1. And you can keep playing with those as long as you want without paying a cent ever again.

We have two different point of view. 

Mine is based on bringing in more players and more cash in game.

In the former system players had access to everything for free till level 15. It's just enought to give them a good feeling of the game and make them sub if they like it.

 

Yours look like being focused on the fact that players have access to more content in the way they can level up to 50.

However you're missing the following" from level 1 players have to actually start paying to experience the full game: ie full UI, head slot toggles and gear unify system, display titles, equip all gear (event and rare), try all the classes/species, sprint, no limitations on WZ, flashpoints, quick travel, revive, name it....

 

In the new system players are hindered (on purpose) by the restrictions. It's not a good way to hook players.

In fact it's like allowing them to come into a fine restaurant give them the main course but they can't sit, have a plate and a plastic fork and they have to pay for everything like knives down to napkins.

Before that you had them sat at a nice table with almost all the bell and whistles providing them the all the starters for free.

 

 

Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I have a 50 Sith Marauder and a 50 Jedi Shadow, none of them are playable at 50 with only two shortcut bars. The amount of usefull skills goes way beyond the slots of the two bars given to old customers.

If you pretend you can play at 50 with only two bars, you either lie because you're on an agenda to defend what cannot be defended, or you always play way under the real capacity of your characters.

Sigh there we go again. What is your obsession with this word 'agenda'.

I never used more than two bars for skills on my trooper. That is not a lie but anyone can just log in if they have ful account and check their trooper and see it for themselves.

Last thing i would do is defend SWTOR but what i said about trooper class is 100 true.

Then you don't play your trooper to 100% efficiency. No matter how you put it, what I say is true. You use like 60% of the classe's total skills.

Can you do stupid dailies with only two quickslot bars? Yeah, you can definitely faceroll the keyboard and do those too, even though the fun of that may be disputable. But for Dungeons, or PvP, or any harder content, you're a total gimp.

Umm... i think i can not repeat myself enough when i say all 'important' skills cover two first bar. There are lot of skills that i have never touched and when it comes to PVP trooper has around 5 to 6 skills depending upon the build you are using that are most important. 

For dailies too i have never used more than 6 or 7 skills. 

I think you are just looking to pick  a fight here calling me gimp and all. I never said i faceroll keyboard that is your language not mine. There are lot of useless skills on troopers which can be ignored.

But apparantely anyone who disgarees with you is either a lier or has an agenda.

 

Mind telling what is you AC because with my Gunnery Tropper I do need more than 2 bars.

Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by Deewe

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Before (AKA Subscription-based w/ Free Trial):

- $15/month subscription to unlock everything

- $xx box fee

- Very limited Free Trial (level 15 cap, limited chat, limited zones/planets, limited crew skills, no Legacy XP, one Flashpoint)

 

After (AKA Free-to-Play):

- No box fee

- Optional $15/month subscription which unlocks everything (same as "Before") and includes additional CC reward

- Free option with no level cap, no zone cap, GTN access, chat, Legacy stuff, etc... most with the option to individually pay more to unlock certain perks

Let's get back to the original quote: F2P is supposed to hook more players.

In the free trial players had access to 100% content (UI included) up to level 15. Ie: give players a good feeling of the game for free.

 

Now in F2P while players can level up to 50 for free they have to pay to be able to totally enjoy the game.

So you find yourself very much hindered and don't really experience the full potential of the game.

 

Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by LhynnSaint
Originally posted by potaco

I don't know how so many people can miss the entire point of a F2P conversion. The point is not to let everyone play uninhibited/unhindered for free. The point is to give people options on how they want to play (with the understanding that getting some money from some people is better than getting no money from nobody).

 

Before, you either subbed and had full access... or didn't subscribe and had no access. You either felt it was worth it and paid... or didn't. It was 100% black and white.

 

Now it's more gray:

 

If you're happy farting around with storylines and alts, a few instances, a little bit of PVP, guess what? You can literally do all of that for free now.

If you want to PVP more, you can pay for a pass.

If you want to PVE/raid more, you can pay for a pass.

If you want to unlock a specific race, you can buy it a la carte.

If you want to unlock extra ability bars, you can buy them a la carte for much cheaper than a full subscription.

 

If, at any point, you find yourself wanting to play enough that you would spend more on the "a la carte" items than a subscription, congratulations, you're at the point where a subscription is worth it. Subbing for even a single month gives you unlimited access for that month PLUS ~$5 worth of CC that you can spend after your sub lapses, making it a net cost of around $10 for the month.

 

It's really not that complicated.

Actually i prefer how it was before, the free trial was good enough to hook new players, this new f2p shit will just drive them away. it really isnt that complicated :p

I'm not sure how you qualify that... Seems pretty obvious that the free trial wasn't "good enough" to hook new players....

 

You could also think of the F2P option as an unlimited trial that you can upgrade piecemeal (by purchasing individual unlocks) or completely (by subscribing).

 

And for the people already subscribing, nothing really changes besides the "free" $5 worth of CC they get each month to spend on whatever they feel like.

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Originally posted by Karteli

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5310098

AllisonBerryman

**snip** focus on ensuring we had a solid framework for Cartel Coins  **snip**.

To me sounds like : we had solid money coming from milking the clueless people.

Originally posted by Nonderyon
SWTOR has to take sample from STO (Star Trek online), its a good f2p model.

Not sure about that.

(did not see we already had a topic on the subject so here's a repost)

 

Unless you've been living under a rock for the last week, you can't have missed the executive producer state of the game letter from Jeff Hickman.

Interestingly enough this speech totally fits the empire propaganda from SW universe. 
As such, for some of us fighting from the shadows, we thought it was time to break the mind trick that was cast upon the masses.

In hopes for a better future.
You humble servant,
D.



  1. Our game is awesome. People love it and want to play it.
  2. The subscription requirement was driving away huge numbers of people who do not want to commit to paying monthly.
  3. The frequency of our Game Updates was way too slow. People were leaving because we were not releasing new content fast enough to keep up with the pace at which it was being consumed.

#1: The game is so awesome that most people left to better horizons.
#2: The game was so fun that people refused to pay the exact same price they have to pay for others MMO
#3: Nuff said 

  • Topic #1: Staff: Why are some developers leaving The Old Republic™? How will the game be affected?
  • Topic #2: Bugs: How does testing work? Why do bugs get through? Why did Game Update 1.4 have so many of them? What are we doing to improve the process?
  • Topic #3: Oceanic populations. Are we doing anything about them?

#1 & 2: Whatever you are saying the last game updates brought more issues than before, meaning people implementing features and testing them are either less skilled or less numerous, or both or focusing on the wrong things.
#3: Waiting before eventually shutting down the servers.


That being said here's a more truthful state of the game:

Engine:
  • Still many issues with the engine
  • Can't have UI chat bubbles due to heavy FPS drop
  • Can't get things like draw distance improved
  • Still feels laggy at 60+ FPS
  • No proper preemptive loading management, ie: long loading times
  • Very bad network synchronization: characters positions and response time not synced.

Combat / UI
  • Enemies AI still very poor
  • Targeting mechanic not set properly
  • No target of target transfer
  • No mouse over healing

PvP
  • Even less balanced than the last before iteration
  • Apogee of the Stun Wars syndrome
  • Total lack of World PvP
  • Might be mostly shut down in F2P

PvE
  • Lacks incentive for end game content
  • Side quests gets old fast
  • Specific pets mandatory due to their locked roles
  • Space still lacking any appeal

Content, world, fluff...
  • Very thin updates especially regarding how few is added in the F2P model
  • World feels as dead as before
  • Yet no gear dyes

Bugs
  • Major graphical bugs since the last patches
  • Memory leak
  • Lag spikes
  • LS blades and companions weapons still being left drawn while in passive mode
  • ...

F2P
  • Pricing model makes you pay for the tools needed to enjoy the game
  • Request people to pay for features that are better and free in others F2P MMO
  • Does not bring more content that much.
  • Locks new items in a paying lottery scam (ask for the odds)
  • Is moving away from V.O. story
  • Will lower PvP WZ, operations and flashpoints participation.


All in all it's understandable the game is being bashed by too many people who'd love to like the game. More worrying though is even the notorious websites are starting to pound @SWTOR.
Originally posted by MikeB

I enjoyed the music in SWTOR, but Age of Conan was the MMO that really blew me away when it came to the soundtrack.

The Eiglophian Mountains track, in particular, is a favorite of mine. http://youtu.be/kQxOTMF0NMY

Totally agree, AoC music was great as was neverwinter one too ;)

Let's start with the obvious:

 

The actual model for TOR F2P system is miss which hits a summit with making people pay for UI elements like quick slot bars.

 

Now here's how the model should have been designed:

  • Provide all the tools needed to enjoy the content to the player for free.
  • Have first steps of the story element free for all the classes.
  • Do not restict players on basic choices (Ex: allow players to create only 2 characters but with any of the species for free).
  • Set a very low fee for purchaseable item, consumables.
  • Do not restrict some items to the random packs only

 

The main idea driving the system would be hook the players in game with all the bells and whistles and have them pay for convenience items, quests hubs and fluff like pets, new gear skins/meshes. For the PvP, Operations, space missions have them (eventually) unlock them by bracket levels with a one time purchase.

 

Make sure not to set the pricing too high and here's where the real trick kicks in.

Have the pricing model setting the prices so low that players won't even feel like spending money at all.

While the quests hubs could be in the $5 range all the rest should be under $1

Recommending a piece of gear @ $0.90, no more and  consumables $0.10-$0.15

 

You want players to feel spoiled. This way you'll get more money by having hundred of thousands people spending happily a few bucks than trying to milk players with the actual fees. Also think about the word of mouth you would get: free advertizing = more customers

For prices set at  $0.10, $0.90 people will hardly hesitate before buying stuff at all, in the end spending much more than with a more obvious rip-off system.

 

All in all think coke not Ferrari.

 

D.

 

Originally posted by Elevenb4
Originally posted by bakabröd
i think its a great game. atleast for me.

Yeah same here. Been having a blast since launch.

Well that's true.

 

For some of us we just look at how much better it could have been and it makes us sad.

Especially when we compare with others available MMO.

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

How is it possible to fail (again) with the SW IP when it comes to a MMO???

Astonishing to say the least.

People had hope it would be better than SWG.

Soon enough they realized it wasn't even as good (edited: deep) as the former game (I mean bugs not included) 

Dome kept thinking the game might improve in the future.

Now with the F2P, they are starting to understand that each iteration of the game, from the current crew, is worse than the one before.

 

Really, even if  used to the weaknesses from the cast, I never imagined they could butcher a F2P model that much.

How possibly they can be so clueless, that's beyond logic.

Originally posted by mmoguy43

 

 If you had 2000 Cartel coins, what would you unlock/purchase?

 

I have 2700 CC in bank and honestly as a subscriber there's nothing appealing to me.

 

 

Well I might get the rocket boost but, apart that the shops makes me yawn.

The stuff is either way overpriced ($3 for a chest piece, $9 for a crystal, $12 for a gear set), stupid (Gamorrean axe) or even broken (move while in carbonite chamber and see the result).

 

 

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