TOR business model would not have been wrong, provided the game would have been a good MMO.

As stated above the Freemium is too restrictive, the worst being selling UI elements.

Also the model feels a bit too much like wanting to milk players without giving them much in return.

So they are making some money for now but eventually people will get bored with the cartel packs scam and well won't drop that much more money in game.

In the end both the players and EA looses.

This game is in dire need of a direction that knows about MMO and delivering.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Deewe

 

1) Story is supposedly what's sells TOR and well I was answerring to the above poster ;)

2) Here's some detailed infos about ability delay: (source)

 

 

3) Fun.... I'd say not that bad. Difference being it lacks quality, polish and good game design choices.

4) Never needed a break as I took it very easy and knew what to expect.

 

1) Understood on the first point.  But every selling point on any and all games gets boring after a while.  Tera's combat. GW2's DEs.  TSW's story. Etc, etc. 

2) It was wholly unnecessary to post the details about the ability delay as I said I heard/read about it.

3) Fun/Not that bad/lacks quality, etc = all opinions; you can ask 1000 people and get varying answers every time.  Unless someone can produce concrete evidence that the game is in fact "bad" or "good", it's all subjective.  I, for one, like it.   Could it be better?  I think so.  Is it as bad as many make it out to be?  I don't think so.

Quality? You are kidding right?

TOR is the apogee of uneven polishing and quality. While some parts of the game and engine really shines, too many of them are really lacking. It goes from the textures, through the UI, the combat... name it.

Compare TOR to Wow, Rift, even Lotro and then you'll see what quality means.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Originally posted by Deewe

**snip**

SWTOR Ability Delay Fixed after January 24th Patch

 

Read more at http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2012/01/swtor-ability-delay-fixed-after-january-24th-patch.html#te0Gusmz0cQ7JL8i.99

All the video examples are dated before the patch.

It's better but sadly it isn't and it's why the thread is still going on.

Especially the network synchronisation isn't fixed.

Originally posted by Airtaee

Originally posted by Deewe

OP (as many others vets) is unhappy because, for some reason, he thinks he deserves more than new players.

 

 

 

So now the choice is easy: sub or leave.

 

I think you should read my thread... just before to place your opinion.

But no worries i have a TL,DR for you: 

Pay for unlock a slotbar after paying 150€ for the game is not fair. Pay it separatly for every character you have...is just moronic.

Want new players who pay full sub? amke game fun. 

In before your response game is fun for you: Tell that to the millon players lost by the way.

Never said I disagree nor I agree with you. I was just pointing at the facts in a neutral way... 

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by Anthara

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by apocoluster
Id give it back  to Bioware.  Id also give them unlimited budget, unlimited time and stay out of their way.

i have to agree with this. the only reason both of them bombed so badly is because Lucas Arts wouldnt keep thier fingers out of it. If Bioware had gotten to do whatever it wanted, it would have been a much greater success. (as well as SWG)

Did you guys ever had a job? Worked with people with great responsabilitys and proud of their work? I think not.

Bioware signed a contract with them, they were aware of their crap. Can't really excuse anyone who signed a contract with a company that said "I want to put my fingers on it".

If your talking about them being taken over by EA. No Bioware had no say in that deal. It wasn't a hostile take over per say, but it was a very very clever take over. 

In worse case, Bioware bosses aren't proud of their jobs so they let anyone put their fingers on their crap.

Considering the games we got out of Bioware pre EA take over, I would say that the now ex-bioware executives were very proud of what they created. It was destroyed out of sheer badluck. 

No one responsible would let their work to be changed, spited on... etc by anyone else. Best they could do was to leave their seats.

They did leave. Unfortunately they were under contract the minute they were taken over by EA and had no say in the direction of the game. Why do you think it took them so long to release the game, even though it had been in development prior to the EA takeover... Redevelopment into the EA model.

I'm not beeing dramatic, I'm beeing completly realistic. That's what SERIOUS people do.

Yet you are illiterate and filled to the brim with false information, if thats what serious people do... I think I would rather be a clown. 

If you guys think the game ended the crap it did cause of EA, you guys are the biggest Bioware fanboys I ever saw.

Or your just blind to the fact that Bioware and Post EA Bioware are two entirely different entities. 

Bioware pre EA was soley Bioware. 

Bioware Post EA was Bioware/Mythic... and we all know Mythics track record after the DAoC team left. 

You sell your soul to the devil and then blame the devil for it.

Once again do some research on how Bioware was taken over and you wouldn't spout nonsense like this. 

Not to mention that EA gave them shitloads of money, wich they wouldn't be able to make the game without it.

EA gave them "shitloads" of money to make the game EA wanted, not the game Bioware wanted. 

 

Silly, uninformed people are silly. 

 

As for the ontopic: 

 

I would give it to XLGames, CCP or TRION. All three are great development studios in my mind, with quality products. 

I tend to disagree, read below:

Originally posted by Deewe

**snip

For the record it was part of the deal when EA bought BioWare. The latter requested to have free reign over the development of TOR.

At a point EA was worried the game development wasn't going as fast as needed.  BioWare sold to EA they needed more time. They also had EA agree into having money spend into the Voiced Over Players Characters.

EA signed the check and at some point when they realised BioWare was nowhere close to have finished the game and would take eons to finish it they set a hard date. Btw, initially the game was scheduled to launch more than 1 year before it did.

The below articles will give you a glimpse of what actually happened. Even the producers acknowledged they where clueless at managing such a big project.

 

• Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem
• Star Wars: The Old Republic was built to thrive in a WoW world

 

 

You can blame EA for having set a hard date, but you can't for having hindered its development nor its design choices nor even build such a poor engine.

 

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Mogcat

So I get free to play Star Wars for a laugh. Ive read all the rage here and I just want to see what its like.

I get in and man its really fun. I thought the combat was going to be press your button 100000 years later it responds but no its pretty responsive. Theres something fun about running around blasting things in the face or wielding a lightsaber. The combat is not that bad. The story quests are really good too I was having more fun with them then I though I would.

Then theres free to play I read all the stuff here and was preparing my defenses for the monetary onslaught that would be coming my way from EA! OOOHH SHIII- Oh wait.. whats this.. It doesnt seem that bad at all. I was scanning the shop for things that would piss me off or restrictions that I would send me reeling away at lightspeed. Nope. Most of the cash shop has useless crap I dont want. The only things that annoy me are credit restrictions and the quickbar thing like seriously EA give me my god forsaken quickbars. Otherwise I dont give a shit about anything else. I just want my co op story which ive got for free on every class. Honestly I cant see the nickle and diming.

Dungeons? meh I guess if you really care about them, flashpoints meh, mail meh, warzones meh, operations meh, space combat LOL, umm what else, titles id like but i can live, some character customisation whatever, the galactic trade network dont care why would i sit on the ah when im just for the story. Restrictions on companions i guess is annoying but i dont really care about them cause i like my blaster better. no epics dont care not in it for epics.

Feels like I got a new online/co-op kotor for free and just have to pay for all the extra stuff. Been playing with my friend who was subbed before and its fun doing the story with him. Hes having fun Im having fun. Its for free everybody wins.

I mean.... pewpew its star wars!

1) You didn't buy the game for full price

2) You haven't reached the point where the quickslot bar limitation becomes a problem

3) You haven't reached an endgame that doesn't warrant a sub

 

I bought the game because I really enjoyed the sith assasin story in the open beta.  I didn't have a well informed opinion of the game until hitting the level cap

CE owner that's been (and still is) subscribed since launch and followed the game development before it was even officially anounced:

FrodoFragins is 100% right.

Now about the responsiveness the combat isn't right. You'll notice it as soon as you're doing some (serious?) PvP or play together next to a friend/husband/wife or do multiboxing.

 

The story gets old after the first planet for too many classes and it's the same scenarii on every each planet with slight differences. 

 

Companions are required to play in solo mode unless you outlevel content, which is I must say prety easy.

Epics... well soon enough you'll care, trust me ;)

 

Finally as you're saying SWTOR ain't a bad co-op game but it's far from a good one in a 2012 world or what it could have been.

Story gets old in anything.  I've yet to play an MMO with a story that I didn't find boring after a while.  Still, the story in TOR is leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessors.

I've actually never had an issue with the responsiveness in combat and I have pvp'ed quite a bit.  But I have heard this brought up time and again.

It's a fun MMORPG but not nearly the epic game everyone was hoping for.

I've had a sub since early access and have just started playing again after a much needed break.

 

1) Story is supposedly what's sells TOR and well I was answerring to the above poster ;)

2) Here's some detailed infos about ability delay: (source)

Hello,

Updated: 12-29-11' (This is Continuing Thread 2)

Original Thread: Thread 1 -- http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=84943
 

**BIOWARE RESPONSES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE THREAD**

Before you label me a Troll please read my Early Review here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=76222

My Reflection of the entire Thread: 3000+ Replies (Read every single one), 120,000+ Views...http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=95738&page=82


Other forums discussing this issue: 

(MMO-Champion) http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...r-break-SW-TOR

Incredible Post on Rift Forums - MUST READ! http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...back-long.html


Video Examples of the Discussed Subject

Thank You - Baznasty (Thread 1, Page 87) -- WoW Example/Contrast MUST SEE!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj6LD6H0ys8

Thank You - Sanchpanza (Thread 1, Page 123) -- TOR Example www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzP0xjNLyX4

Thank You - Samdbtto (Thread 1, Page 124) -- TOR Target Switch Responsiveness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlX5...1Xqqj_g-bLhNjO

Thank You - Badchx (Thread 1, Page 181) -- TOR Healing Issue MUST SEE!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7NIn...ature=youtu.be

Thank You - Devolution (Thread 1, Page 210) -- TOR Melee Ability Delay MUST SEE!:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwPT5...ature=youtu.be

Thank You - Hulduet (Thread 2, Page 89) -- TOR Ability Activation Timer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1T0OisXdew

Thank You - Badchx (Thread 2, Page 148) -- WoW/TOR Cast-Moving Responsiveness MUST SEE!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUQ1J...ature=youtu.be


Note: Please, if you agree with these points and this subject, rate the thread. Perhaps this will raise Bioware's awareness. Anything we can do to make SW:TOR the best it can be because the truth is you and I are here because we want it to succeed and we see it's potential.

The game has been out long enough for the masses to finally realize the negatives. As people are getting out of the starting planets and the "new and shiny" feeling starts to subside, the cracks in this new wonderous world are becoming apparent.

Ability Delay and Character Responsiveness: -- It is not Latency or FPS Lag

I will attempt to discuss this issue and I will do so in a manner that I hope will make everyone understand it better. The "Character Responsiveness" for lack of a better term, is how "smooth" the game plays from your avatars perspective. I have played SWG and EQ to a lesser degree as well as Warhammer Online and several other MMOs and I must honestly say that Bioware has gotten this all too important aspect much better than any previous MMO that I have experienced (with the obvious exception, to which we will get soon).

You see, I really want you (The Reader) to understand the importance of this topic. To drive home "how" important this is. In fact I will say this: I am in no way shy to say that, the reason Warhammer Online, EQs, Rift, SWG etc. etc. could never "ever" get to anything near WoW subscriptions is the Character Responsiveness. All these games failed for many reasons, and a game "can" fail for many reasons and on many fronts but this single-one-category... is by "far" the #1 Reason why World of Warcraft is World of Warcraft.

Again, I must drive home the fact that no matter if you understand this issue or are new to the subject (and perhaps MMOs) or if you believe the game is fun and enjoyable and think that this is just a vocal minority piping up on something nonsensical. This is the undeniable truth and any game developer or serious gamer worth their salt will agree.


What is Character Responsiveness and Ability Delay? -- It is not Latency or FPS lag

It is the feeling of connection between the person behind the keyboard and the Avatar that is being controlled. Basically, the better the Character Responsiveness is, the smoother the Game Plays! You may HATE World of Warcraft and believe it is the worst abomination on the planet... that is fine. HOWEVER, you "must" objectively admit that it is the absolute, smoothest Character Responsiveness in a Western Available MMO ever. 

If you are a WoW player, and have played WoW with any amount of skill, competitiveness, you cannot help but cringe when in a Warzone in SW:TOR. It feels unresponsive, frustrating... as if something is wrong with you! but there is nothing you can do about it!

If you have never played WoW, perhaps you come from SWG or EQ2 or Rift etc. that is fine! You are WELCOME in this thread, it is not WoW Players against the Rest! I just "need" you to understand that SW:TOR is "noticeably" and "objectively" bad in this crucial department. I am not writing this because I am trolling or because I love WoW, on the contrary. I am doing this because I want SW:TOR to be amazing, I love so many aspects of this great game... but if this is not addressed it "will" die like every other one.


Why is this "so" important?! -- It is not Latency or FPS lag

From here on I will say 0.5 for emphasis but reality is 0.2, 0.3 (ANY) Ability Delay is unacceptable.

And here is the real problem. It is so important because MMO gaming has become so "tight", so competitive and so smooth (through WoW), that it is completely and absolutely unacceptable for an ability or animation to be delayed by 0.5 seconds.

0.5 seconds is a lot of time, to our visual cortex. 0.5 seconds is the difference between interrupting a CC of the enemy player or not (and thus being disadvantaged/dying). 0.5 seconds is the difference between landing a Taunt on the "add" that just came into the room and thus having it come to you or it one-shotting your healer and thus wiping on the Boss you've just spent 3 Days wiping to.

Zero Point Five Seconds is a ******* Long Time


Bioware, I plead that you dedicate as many resources as required (all if needed) to address this. You cannot cram story/companions/new flashpoints - operations... Class Balance into patches and hope that is good enough.

I hate to be a crazed doomsayer but I must state: Mark my words, if SW:TOR's Character Responsiveness and Ability Delay is not on par with WoW's by March-June it will be just another Rift.

Bioware, please see the importance of Character Responsiveness and Visual Stimulation of Ability Animation Correctness. It should be impossible for me to have an ability's cooldown activated without seeing it animate.... this is unacceptable. I just truly hope that this isn't a core coding issue or engine issue, because then we're f'd.
 

Notable Mention:

Thread 1 -- Page 133 -- Poster: ajjw

"In a game like WoW, if your previous spell's animation is still playing when you use your next spell, the old animation immediately ends and that of the new spell beings. However in TOR, if an animation is still playing, the game will not let you cast another spell, even if the cast time and GCD have already finished.

In other words, if a spell has a 2s cast time but a 2.5s animation, you'll be sat there looking stupid for 0.5s unable to cast anything after the first spell, whereas in WoW the last 0.5s of the old animation will be "clipped" (ie cut off) and you'll be able to cast a new spell immediately, the animation of which will also begin to play immediately."


Thread 2 -- Page 109 -- Poster: Reedful (Professional Gaming Experience)

His Proven Credentials: http://www.arenajunkies.com/user/174129-threatslol/

WC3 Tournament Player
WoW Tournament Player
CS:S Tournament Player

Attended regionals and most MLG events from 2008-2010

Xcore: On a personal note, I value input like this a lot as this is someone with a very high understand of the intricacies of "Competitive Combat Design". I realize that the view may be a little "Hardcore" but nonetheless it is invaluable and coming from an individual that is perceiving the "Gameworld" at a higher level. 

"Speaking from a professional gamer's standpoint, the game is simply unplayable. It is barely possible to outplay your opponents with a 2 second median reaction time. Olympic is .4, I'd settle for .8. It is hilarious how they were bragging about taking subscriptions away from World of Warcraft when anything in this game after the single player parts might as well have been made in 2003... by Blizzard, and then discarded so their game would actually be successful. 

I can interrupt my own instant casts. There's at least a 1 second delay on every single one of my abilities(even instants not on the global) with a professional gaming computer and 3 MS. I live right down the road. You should hire me, throw away the Hero Engine and maybe we can fix your issues. 

-- 

Say I'm CC'd by the door in Voidstar and I want to trinket to interrupt the cap - here we have a perfect example of how you've ripped off World of Warcraft almost to the letter with everything from the battleground style in this, "Warzone," to "Tenacity" AND it's cooldown, et al, holy moly. 

So anyway, here I am playing a WoW clone, stunned by the door. I trinket(I am not going to call it Tenacity because it is a blatant rip off of World of Warcraft and it hasn't established a real name for itself.) Nothing happens. Nothing happens for almost an entire global. I am spamming Concussion Charge. At this point I have only casted Tenacity, which does not use my global and I have waited for 1.5 seconds. Finally, the game registers that I have casted my PvP trinket, takes the cooldown 2 seconds late, frees me from my CC and allows my Concussion Charge spam to activate the ability except I get knocked back, the UI tells me my instant cast ability was interrupted and my Resolve bar has already decayed to 75%.

There is no saying, "hehehe don't spam your abilities." There is no saying, "well I still like the game anyway!" There is no saying, "well if everyone has the same lag, it's balanced!""

 

Bioware Responses

Thread 2 -- Page 123 -- Georg Zoeller

"This issue is under active investigation.

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'."

Georg "Observer" Zoeller
Principal Lead Combat Designer







P.S.: It is not Latency or FPS Lag... also very important to understand

3) Fun.... I'd say not that bad. Difference being it lacks quality, polish and good game design choices.

4) Never needed a break as I took it very easy and knew what to expect.

OP (as many others vets) is unhappy because, for some reason, he thinks he deserves more than new players.

The preffered status gives you a bit of what is required to play, but isn't enough especially when you are used to others F2P mmo or be a normal TOR player.

Thing is most vets would be happy to pay for restricted content (not features not tools) would the price be right.

For now if you want to do a specific content, with weekly passes, you have to pay between $7,63 and $11,50 monthly.

(Ref: pricing form here formual is (4 + 2,5/7) weeks * pass price (ie: 30.5 days a month)

The low bracket seems reasonable but it's not taking into account that you have to spend quite a lot (again) to unlock all the bells and whistles: quickslot bars, respawn, toggle head slot, ... down to show titles.

Now it's getting pricey... 

Then take the high bracket, (for people not getting the big CC package). It's getting more expensive than a sub considering not only you have to unlock some features, but you also don't get the 500 CC monthly. And it's only for being able to do one type of content only!

So now the choice is easy: sub or leave.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Mogcat

So I get free to play Star Wars for a laugh. Ive read all the rage here and I just want to see what its like.

I get in and man its really fun. I thought the combat was going to be press your button 100000 years later it responds but no its pretty responsive. Theres something fun about running around blasting things in the face or wielding a lightsaber. The combat is not that bad. The story quests are really good too I was having more fun with them then I though I would.

Then theres free to play I read all the stuff here and was preparing my defenses for the monetary onslaught that would be coming my way from EA! OOOHH SHIII- Oh wait.. whats this.. It doesnt seem that bad at all. I was scanning the shop for things that would piss me off or restrictions that I would send me reeling away at lightspeed. Nope. Most of the cash shop has useless crap I dont want. The only things that annoy me are credit restrictions and the quickbar thing like seriously EA give me my god forsaken quickbars. Otherwise I dont give a shit about anything else. I just want my co op story which ive got for free on every class. Honestly I cant see the nickle and diming.

Dungeons? meh I guess if you really care about them, flashpoints meh, mail meh, warzones meh, operations meh, space combat LOL, umm what else, titles id like but i can live, some character customisation whatever, the galactic trade network dont care why would i sit on the ah when im just for the story. Restrictions on companions i guess is annoying but i dont really care about them cause i like my blaster better. no epics dont care not in it for epics.

Feels like I got a new online/co-op kotor for free and just have to pay for all the extra stuff. Been playing with my friend who was subbed before and its fun doing the story with him. Hes having fun Im having fun. Its for free everybody wins.

I mean.... pewpew its star wars!

1) You didn't buy the game for full price

2) You haven't reached the point where the quickslot bar limitation becomes a problem

3) You haven't reached an endgame that doesn't warrant a sub

 

I bought the game because I really enjoyed the sith assasin story in the open beta.  I didn't have a well informed opinion of the game until hitting the level cap

CE owner that's been (and still is) subscribed since launch and followed the game development before it was even officially anounced:

FrodoFragins is 100% right.

Now about the responsiveness the combat isn't right. You'll notice it as soon as you're doing some (serious?) PvP or play together next to a friend/husband/wife or do multiboxing.

The story gets old after the first planet for too many classes and it's the same scenarii on every each planet with slight differences. 

Companions are required to play in solo mode unless you outlevel content, which is I must say prety easy.

Epics... well soon enough you'll care, trust me ;)

Finally as you're saying SWTOR ain't a bad co-op game but it's far from a good one in a 2012 world or what it could have been.

Originally posted by Snakex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6aaYPsI-eY&list=PL3A3AF4EB3A3CBC70&index=1&feature=plcp

 

Enjoy =]

What a waste of time

Let's be realistic here.

Soon enough people will consider either trying their luck in getting nothing or spending their money to obtain the credits needed to buy the items from the AH.

While against the TOS, seems to me the gold farmers might be very happy with TOR F2P model.

Originally posted by bartoni33

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I have a 50 Sith Marauder and a 50 Jedi Shadow, none of them are playable at 50 with only two shortcut bars. The amount of usefull skills goes way beyond the slots of the two bars given to old customers.

If you pretend you can play at 50 with only two bars, you either lie because you're on an agenda to defend what cannot be defended, or you always play way under the real capacity of your characters.

Sigh there we go again. What is your obsession with this word 'agenda'.

I never used more than two bars for skills on my trooper. That is not a lie but anyone can just log in if they have ful account and check their trooper and see it for themselves.

Last thing i would do is defend SWTOR but what i said about trooper class is 100 true.

Then you don't play your trooper to 100% efficiency. No matter how you put it, what I say is true. You use like 60% of the classe's total skills.

Can you do stupid dailies with only two quickslot bars? Yeah, you can definitely faceroll the keyboard and do those too, even though the fun of that may be disputable. But for Dungeons, or PvP, or any harder content, you're a total gimp.

Umm... i think i can not repeat myself enough when i say all 'important' skills cover two first bar. There are lot of skills that i have never touched and when it comes to PVP trooper has around 5 to 6 skills depending upon the build you are using that are most important. 

For dailies too i have never used more than 6 or 7 skills. 

I think you are just looking to pick  a fight here calling me gimp and all. I never said i faceroll keyboard that is your language not mine. There are lot of useless skills on troopers which can be ignored.

But apparantely anyone who disgarees with you is either a lier or has an agenda.

 

Mind telling what is you AC because with my Gunnery Tropper I do need more than 2 bars.

Let me try this.

What Whitebeards is trying to say is that yes you CAN use 3 to 5 hotbars for all of your abilities but you don't HAVE to use that many abilities because some if not most of them are the same thing with varying damage and whatnot. So he chooses to streamline and only use the best abilities available for whatever situation he finds himself in. He does not waste time with actions that are lesser than other actions. I agree with that.

That said I also agree that limiting hotbars is assinine and a smack in the face to free players.

Even keeping the bests skills you need more than 2 bars unless you are only doing one type of content/role

Ex: doing only PvP or (single player or flashpoints or operations) PvE.

Otherwise you need to either switch your skills in your quick slot bars, have more than 2 or won't be optimal.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

---

Originally posted by Deewe

---

Originally posted by lizardbones  

---

Originally posted by superniceguy

---

Originally posted by lizardbones  

---

Originally posted by LhynnSaint Actually i prefer how it was before, the free trial was good enough to hook new players, this new f2p shit will just drive them away. it really isnt that complicated :p

---

Except it wasn't. If it was, they'd still be doing it.  

---

Uh Oh! That means SWTOR will not last that long then. Soon they will not be doing it either!   Free trial > F2P for hooking new players. If the free trial wasn't hooking new players, then the F2P version will atract even less The F2P is so restrcitive, and if you are a new player then it is best to sub. The free trial was not so restrictive, and then you get to level 15 and have to sub any way. Either way you still have to sub, but the free trial was less restrictive and more free.

---

If Free Trials were better at getting new players to play, then every game that went F2P would get even fewer players than when they had a Free Trial. So far, every game that has taken a F2P option gets more players and money than the Free Trial option got them. ** edit ** @Karteli - I'm always surprised when a game company's representative talks in a simple, and straight manner with their audience. I prefer it to be honest.  

---

Every game that went F2P got more players because their system wasn't as restrictive asTOR's.

 

TOR's F2P makes it a pain to play compared to what they had before.

---

My experience playing now seems almost exactly the same as it was before. Of course, I'm not all that into the instances and PvP, so for me, the free content is all the content I would have wanted in the first place.

It is entirely likely that SWToR's F2P system won't work. As you've pointed out, their F2P has many details different from other F2P conversions. That doesn't mean that all F2P systems perform worse than Free Trial systems in getting new players.

We'll have to see how their financials go to see if they consider this a success or not.

 

Would the F2P system be based on Turbine's you would (eventually) have paid for class story unlock, meaning bringing cash into the game.

Totally agree with your F2P note. A well done F2P mechanic can indeed bring more players and more cash in game. Turbine and others proven that.

Actually they are aiming at 3 milion players (check Jeff hickman interview). I serioulsy doubt they will hit it regarding the business model and the competitors.

Originally posted by Omnifish

It seems like they used the Turbine model for FTP, i.e. it's setup to encourage you to sub as it's a better deal and I guess that's the way, ultimately if it's success, people will take that option.

As it stands the FTP option is horribly restrictive but thats the point, your suppose to be wowed by the game by playing for free and then want to sub to it to gain access to everything. I have the feeling that some people don't get that, or they just think their, 'owed', something because it's not SWG2, EA are involved, etc etc.

I mean theres a thread at the moment critising how the legacy system is redundant because you can buy the race unlocks for cartel points. It also claims the legacy system is the main feature of the entire game.  Both of these claims are utter bollocks if your a subscriber, which is what this system is set out to make you. You can still earn perks/rewards from the legacy system and claim the unlocks the other way if you want. The legacy system isn't a real draw anyway.  If your on the fence about this game are you really going to grind the credits needed for speeder piloting at lv10? Probably not.

Ultimately you have to understand there are people on these forums who just hate the game and the company and want it dead.  You only have to see the first few responses, (which don't even address you questions), for proof of that and the numerous threads on these forums.  This place is a refugee for old SWG vets who love nostagila based fantasies about their favortite game.  A lot of those people hate EA and Bioware by extension so treat anything produced by them as a zombie that needs headshotting.

Therefore expecting better from people is just not worth it.  I gave up some time ago, and yes I do still comment on the game and feel strongly that Bioware have made mistakes with this title.  Getting anything like a realistic debate on here about TOR is just not going to be doable when certain people won't let go of their, 'baggage'.

I mean if the F2P model was really built upon Turbine's it would be a huge success because people would be paying for fluff and content.

That's what they should have done.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by superniceguy

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Originally posted by lizardbones  

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Originally posted by LhynnSaint Actually i prefer how it was before, the free trial was good enough to hook new players, this new f2p shit will just drive them away. it really isnt that complicated :p

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Except it wasn't. If it was, they'd still be doing it.  

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Uh Oh! That means SWTOR will not last that long then. Soon they will not be doing it either!

 

Free trial > F2P for hooking new players. If the free trial wasn't hooking new players, then the F2P version will atract even less

The F2P is so restrcitive, and if you are a new player then it is best to sub. The free trial was not so restrictive, and then you get to level 15 and have to sub any way. Either way you still have to sub, but the free trial was less restrictive and more free.

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If Free Trials were better at getting new players to play, then every game that went F2P would get even fewer players than when they had a Free Trial. So far, every game that has taken a F2P option gets more players and money than the Free Trial option got them.

** edit **
@Karteli - I'm always surprised when a game company's representative talks in a simple, and straight manner with their audience. I prefer it to be honest.

 

Every game that went F2P got more players because their system wasn't as restrictive asTOR's.

TOR's F2P makes it a pain to play compared to what they had before.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Why would I be upset about F2P. I am getting my free CC every month, my sub value got lowered to below $8 if you add CC into equation.  I love the cartel packs LOL. And it is great to see lot of newbies in game. I am often just going to lower planets to help folks.

Now that they are done with F2P BioWare can focus on what they should - adding more content to game. That's what will make all SWTOR fans the happiest.

 

Edit. I know that folks who purchased a game and stopped to play are upset, they think they are entitled to play at subscriber level for free.  If we follow this line of thoughts - all subscribers would quit and play F2P - Am I wrong?

/disagree.

As a CE owner, subscriber since pre-launch I'm very sad with the F2P system because:

• F2P < free trial, as people now have to pay to make the game viable at low level = will drive players away
• No new content, mostly recycled assets
• Cartel packs scam.
• V.O. story lowest priority (check Jeff Hickman interview)

Originally posted by Lugors

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by postpwn

I stayed away from this game for one reason:

 

 

The EA logo

EA didn´t write the game design document, mate. /rolleyes

 

EA is a publisher. Bioware was supposed to have a clue how to make a successful game.

 

Doesn´t matter that Bioware is "owned" by EA. They are the ones who designed and programmed the game the way it is.

 

I entirely blame the leaders of Bioware: CEOs, game director, lead developers, executive producer, no one else.

You have the wrong site picture here.  Bioware is just a label that EA has purchased.  It's like saying you have a problem with a Dasani water bottle, but Coke is blameless.  A better example is saying that the new Madden game sucks, but it's EA Sports fault, not really EA at large.

This was not a merger like Activision/Blizzard where Blizzard maintains a level of autonomy.  Bioware is one of many studios that EA bought for the brand name, IPs and personnel.    

Sorry but FromHell is right here.

For the record it was part of the deal when EA bought BioWare. The latter requested to have free reign over the development of TOR.

At a point EA was worried the game development wasn't going as fast as needed.  BioWare sold to EA they needed more time. They also had EA agree into having money spend into the Voiced Over Players Characters.

EA signed the check and at some point when they realised BioWare was nowhere close to have finished the game and would take eons to finish it they set a hard date. Btw, initially the game was scheduled to launch more than 1 year before it did.

The below articles will give you a glimpse of what actually happened. Even the producers acknowledged they where clueless at managing such a big project.

• Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem
• Star Wars: The Old Republic was built to thrive in a WoW world

You can blame EA for having set a hard date, but you can't for having hindered its development nor its design choices nor even build such a poor engine.

Originally posted by potaco

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by potaco

Originally posted by Deewe

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Before (AKA Subscription-based w/ Free Trial):

- $15/month subscription to unlock everything

- $xx box fee

- Very limited Free Trial (level 15 cap, limited chat, limited zones/planets, limited crew skills, no Legacy XP, one Flashpoint)

 

After (AKA Free-to-Play):

- No box fee

- Optional $15/month subscription which unlocks everything (same as "Before") and includes additional CC reward

- Free option with no level cap, no zone cap, GTN access, chat, Legacy stuff, etc... most with the option to individually pay more to unlock certain perks

Let's get back to the original quote: F2P is supposed to hook more players.

In the free trial players had access to 100% content (UI included) up to level 15. Ie: give players a good feeling of the game for free.

 

Now in F2P while players can level up to 50 for free they have to pay to be able to totally enjoy the game.

So you find yourself very much hindered and don't really experience the full potential of the game.

 

I still don't follow your logic. You're acting like the Level 15-capped, almost no chat, no Legacy, limited-to-starter-planet-and-capital zones, and a single Flashpoint "Free Trial" had more free content than the "new" F2P option that lets you access almost the complete game for free (as long as you don't really care about hard modes or repeating the exact same activities over and over)... which is just ridiculous.

 

Before: You got an extremely limited free trial where you had to pay a box fee and a sub to progress at all... and once you bought it, you had to keep paying or you lost 100% of your access.

 

After: You get what is essentially an extended free trial where you can access virtually all content for free. Or you can choose to subscribe to unlock everything for that month and when you cancel your subscription, you're still able to log in. Or, you can buy things individually and keep them indefinitely.

 

I fail to see how the new option is worse than the old. It's infinitely more flexible. It's not like having all your action bars available was benefitting you sooo much on a level 15-capped character.

 

For those people that are so worried about running slowly and missing action bars... spend $5 to unlock the action bars and you'll automatically boost your account to "Preferred" status which gives you Sprint at level 1. And you can keep playing with those as long as you want without paying a cent ever again.

We have two different point of view. 

Mine is based on bringing in more players and more cash in game.

In the former system players had access to everything for free till level 15. It's just enought to give them a good feeling of the game and make them sub if they like it.

Yours look like being focused on the fact that players have access to more content in the way they can level up to 50.

However you're missing the following" from level 1 players have to actually start paying to experience the full game: ie full UI, head slot toggles and gear unify system, display titles, equip all gear (event and rare), try all the classes/species, sprint, no limitations on WZ, flashpoints, quick travel, revive, name it....

In the new system players are hindered (on purpose) by the restrictions. It's not a good way to hook players.

In fact it's like allowing them to come into a fine restaurant give them the main course but they can't sit, have a plate and a plastic fork and they have to pay for everything like knives down to napkins.

Before that you had them sat at a nice table with almost all the bell and whistles providing them the all the starters for free.

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I have a 50 Sith Marauder and a 50 Jedi Shadow, none of them are playable at 50 with only two shortcut bars. The amount of usefull skills goes way beyond the slots of the two bars given to old customers.

If you pretend you can play at 50 with only two bars, you either lie because you're on an agenda to defend what cannot be defended, or you always play way under the real capacity of your characters.

Sigh there we go again. What is your obsession with this word 'agenda'.

I never used more than two bars for skills on my trooper. That is not a lie but anyone can just log in if they have ful account and check their trooper and see it for themselves.

Last thing i would do is defend SWTOR but what i said about trooper class is 100 true.

Then you don't play your trooper to 100% efficiency. No matter how you put it, what I say is true. You use like 60% of the classe's total skills.

Can you do stupid dailies with only two quickslot bars? Yeah, you can definitely faceroll the keyboard and do those too, even though the fun of that may be disputable. But for Dungeons, or PvP, or any harder content, you're a total gimp.

Umm... i think i can not repeat myself enough when i say all 'important' skills cover two first bar. There are lot of skills that i have never touched and when it comes to PVP trooper has around 5 to 6 skills depending upon the build you are using that are most important. 

For dailies too i have never used more than 6 or 7 skills. 

I think you are just looking to pick  a fight here calling me gimp and all. I never said i faceroll keyboard that is your language not mine. There are lot of useless skills on troopers which can be ignored.

But apparantely anyone who disgarees with you is either a lier or has an agenda.

 

Mind telling what is you AC because with my Gunnery Tropper I do need more than 2 bars.

Originally posted by potaco

Originally posted by Deewe

Well if the free trial wasn't good enough to hook players, how making them pay more without adding content will bring more players in game?

 

I don't get it.

Before (AKA Subscription-based w/ Free Trial):

- $15/month subscription to unlock everything

- $xx box fee

- Very limited Free Trial (level 15 cap, limited chat, limited zones/planets, limited crew skills, no Legacy XP, one Flashpoint)

 

After (AKA Free-to-Play):

- No box fee

- Optional $15/month subscription which unlocks everything (same as "Before") and includes additional CC reward

- Free option with no level cap, no zone cap, GTN access, chat, Legacy stuff, etc... most with the option to individually pay more to unlock certain perks

Let's get back to the original quote: F2P is supposed to hook more players.

In the free trial players had access to 100% content (UI included) up to level 15. Ie: give players a good feeling of the game for free.

Now in F2P while players can level up to 50 for free they have to pay to be able to totally enjoy the game.

So you find yourself very much hindered and don't really experience the full potential of the game.