In short cartel packs == scam.

Everything is said.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

I really like how the new UI looks like when you log in... they made quite a bit of changes here:

 

Yea that's a slick looking log in,me likes :)

 

But not as convenient as before.

Then they should have lef the option s to choose how to sort their characters in the players hands.

 

For people playing like 1-2 characters having the last played at top is nice but for others switching between many they'd rather have them sorted by name so they always know where is their character. Think muscle memory.

It's good for yer brain /grin

Also, BW admitted that they need to work on Revan robe a little bit more, so it matches perfectly... some players are really upset about slight difference in color...

;)

Originally posted by FromHell

Sadly, I have no idea if this game will ever get out of its current mediocrity, but three years from now, if all goes well, we might have JTL type space combat, revamped planets with day night change, no exhaustion zones, less loading screens, decent mob AI, dynamic content, customizable housing, cutscenes with camera movement and graphics cranked up from 2005 level to 2010 level. Oh yeah and maybe Pazak, Swoop Racing and other things todo than grind the same type of kill X content, over, and over, and over again.

 

let me know when that happened and I'll give it another shot.

Well guess mostly +1.5 million of former players are in the same boat as you are.

They might add some of the above but what I don't see hitting the game anytime soon is sandbox game play.

Features that would give some life to the game and resurrect it from the graveyard.

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

I really like how the new UI looks like when you log in... they made quite a bit of changes here:

 

Yea that's a slick looking log in,me likes :)

 

But not as convenient as before.

Then they should have lef the option s to choose how to sort their characters in the players hands.

For people playing like 1-2 characters having the last played at top is nice but for others switching between many they'd rather have them sorted by name so they always know where is their character. Think muscle memory.

BTW these patch notes, content and bug fixes are very thin.

Also notice that they still did not fix basic stuff like LS blades being kept drawn on the companions belts.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

They changed some armor design in last patch as well.

I like that they finally made Revan robe look actually like Revan's robe - there are other changes to armor,.

 

To me Kotor version is still > TOR one of which they just changed the textures of the Inquisitor gear.

Notice how he doesn't have inflated tubes around the shoulders, then the bottom has also more details like the cloth going through the belt. Also the chest actually looks like a tarnished armor vs a cheap set of leater in TOR. He actually has protective bracers and hand protection.

Originally posted by evilastro
Rift, the advertising for the expansion was so enticing, but the game was still crap.

Mark me as interested... so how would you transform it to make it suit your needs?

Originally posted by pioneer08

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

Content in SWTOR is just one thing to do, a long line of story based missions, it is just story after story after story, there is very little other variety in the game to do at all. If you get bored of story then you get bored of doing the entire game

There is plenty of stuff to do in game besides story. You have flashpoints, operations, heroics, crafting, companion building, datacron hunting, world bosses etc. 

In SWG if you get bored of something, you can then do something else, and once you have done everything else the game has, you get motivation to do the first thing again, and then rinse and repeat. Even you quit SWTOR at one time, as had enough for a while.

And I also quit SWG on multiple occasions. All games get boring after a period of time and I take a break from them.  The only difference is stayed far longer before my first break in TOR than I did my first break in SWG. 

SWTORs crafting is not worth the effort and just plain boring.In SWG you could compete against other players to be the best. Chasing the resources, trying to get the best, was a thrill. There is no thrill getting resources in SWTOR, you just go to the relevant planets, and get the resource.

Too each his own. I find the crafting in TOR a nice change of pace. The companion system makes crafting a whole lot more fun. I can send them out to craft and gather while doing more fun things with my time. In SWG, I had to sit there and watch a bar when I crafted.  Bascially it comes down to whether you like being the worker or the boss. I prefer being the boss. 

Players did a lot of events in SWG, eg there were slave auctions, my friend got bought to help someone out clearing lairs for a day so they could drop their harvestors. There were many events done by players in game, who had imagination, and created their own content. i suppose SWTOR could do this, but people do not seem to bother, and there is no need to help clear out areas to get resources, as every char is combat capable.

There are player made events happening all the time. My guild  does them every week. Join a guild and take part in them. 

With the mission terminal I strategically put Rebel and Imperial missions aimed at the same locations and it created quite a huge battle.

Curious how you did that when you were only alowed to use your own faction's terminal. If you were imperial aligned you were not allowed to use the Rebel teriminals. And vice versa. 

SWTORs missions are entertaining as Bioware entertain you, but SWGs was more fun, as you could make the game do what you wanted to do, and some of the outcomes were all varied and hiralious, and never had the same experience twice, due to the dynamic spawning system, wher any kind of creature / NPC can spawn at any given location, making everything unpredictable. Once you have played through SWTOR once, you know exactly where everything is going to be, and what will be there.

Just because they spawned in different locations doesn't mean they were any more interesting. They basically stood in one spot and fired at you. No special moves of any kind. No challenge. The creatures were the only ones with any challenge but in the end they were just creatures chasing you. Most players didn't even bother with those mission terminals unless they were grinding XP. 

 

 

 

All the stuff in SWTOR is the same, story story story. In SWG there was various different things to do as I already said. Operations, Heroics and Flashpoints are all the same, just more story based missions like story. SWG had locations you could visit and build your achivements, SWG did not have companions but had pets with CH, there was also the secret Jedi system.

Companions do some of the crafting work but then so did harvestors and factories in SWG which let you play the game while they harvested / crafted items, plus the charm of crafting is best doing it yourself, if you prefer your compansions doing it, then you do not really like crafting all that much.

Stuff spawned in different locations but what made things interesting was when it mixed with your terminal missions. You did not know whether you would be dealing with just the mission spawn or some other spawn as well. In early days doing faction mission terminals you had to deal with other players as well.

The factional missions to create battles was easy, as you just switched to opposite faction character. Once a mission has spawned it does not usually clear until the mission camp has been destroyed, so if you travel to the mission location and let it spawn after waypont updates, it stays in the world for other players to come across it, if you then abandon it and do not destroy it. Sometimes after a server reset they would disappear but not always. Basically you go in a city with a rebel terminal, and then say get one to the west, and let it spawn, and then switch to opposite faction character, go to Imperial city to the west of the Rebel city, and get a mission East which will spawn roughly in the same location as the other mission, and then travel to it, and hopefully 2 missions end up close to each other and watch the NPCs go at each other or join in :)  It seems there are things you did not know you could do, because you never gave it much attention. SWG was deep, SWTOR is shallow.

Not to forget the ongoing open world battles between Anchorhead and Bestine, created by players themselves. In the final years SOE had to create the battles for players instead, in Bestine, Dearic and Keren.

The world was your oyster in SWG. There was endlless fun in SWG, depending what YOU (and SOE/LA) made out of it, SWTOR i s limited by what Bioware made out of it. There is little you can do to cahnge the world around you. Once SWTOR all completed there is not much reason to revisit, as seen it all before.

I guess you just did not appreciate SWG for what it was.

 

[mod edit]

Whatever you have in SWTOR the big difference with SWG apart it was even less polished than TOR is that in the former you had choice. In TOR you can pretty much only kill stuff and you are done.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

---

Originally posted by adam_nox
This game is nothing like kotor.  Doesn't have the same type of combat, there's no real choices, you grind enemies and quests rather than just progressing through a story.  The story itself is horrible.  A talent tree isn't the same thing as a skill tree.  The latter being superior and kotor like.

---

 

you did a main story and side quests in KOTOR as well, difference is there are a lot more in SWTOR.

i do agree the story in KOTOR is far superior but then again, that story is superior to almost any RPG story i have ever seen.

How about Risen, The witcher, Planescape Torment?

Kotor was nice but remove the SW setting and it's not as good as all the other above.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by mrrshann618

I've stated before, and I'll state again EVERY GAME THAT OFFERS A CASH SHOP IS TRYING TO MILK YOU Warm fuzzy feeling or not. SWTOR , Fallen Earth, STO, GW2, Aion, ect,,, none of them are different. Citing the greed associated with ONLY swtor is simply sticking your head in the sand OR specifically singleing out SWTOR because you WANT it to fail.

 

No they do not try to milk you

STO you can play the game and earn dilithium and transfer to ZEN, no money spent whatsoever. Does SWTOR offer you to transfer commendations or any in game currency to Cartel Coins? NO

LOTRO also gives the ability to earn Turbine points by just playing the game too.

GW2 does not have a monthly fee, and is B2P, so any money spent within $15 is good.

But the main issue why SWTOR is bad is because it deserves to go B2P, as it does not hold you playing and is not as deep as every other MMO, and more of a single player game - play the story then quit, but due to the MASSIVE cost of it, it can't go B2P.

Also no other MMO has weekly passes, other MMOs you buy an unlock once, and that is that.

No one wants it to fail, but it will fail with this crappy F2P system. It does nothing to attract anyone to play it at all, except the odd few who are already subbing and those lucky to get rich friends willing to buy their unlocks for them.

The weekly passes are indeed really nasty, at least compared to what's done in other MMO.

Studio used to build virtual world for players to enjoy.

Most of them aren't anymore. They just try to spoon fed the players making most game play boring in the short term.

Although I have to admit older games were a bit too much a second job than an entertainment, sometimes.

Originally posted by BigAndShiny

 

 

 

Let me let you in on a secret.  WoW only has 160 developers.  Yes, that's less than Guild Wars 2, less than Aion in Korea, and probably around the same as SWTOR has left now that ey've cut their team down from 400 after the layoffs. 

 

A game that could easily support a thousand devs without eating too much into activision's profit has only 160.  

160 real devs is quite a huge team if you ask, especially if they have plenty of experience.

Originally posted by ktanner3

 

Hey, I'm with you completely as I would LOVE to see that in this game. The trouble is, developers seem to think they have to create ALL the content instead of creating tools that allow the player to create their own. 

If ever TOR would have been designed as a world versus a on rails cinematic experience, I mean at least a bit...

Thing is TOR is the most lifeless MMO I ever played.

Originally posted by mrrshann618

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by mrrshann618

EA's approach to the f2p model did start out bad.

It did not improve. One example being the cartel packs scam.

So you are saying that packs are the downfall of a f2p mmo? So then you are blanket stating that STO's lockboxes are failures, GW2's Lockboxes are Failures, Fallen Earth's lockboxes are failures, ect...

Don't know for other games, still in GW2 you can find key in game without paying for them.

Lockboxes do not dictate a f2p Model. As for improvement, The f2p model is already being adjusted, to suggest otherwise simply means you are not paying attention to the progression that is currently and has already happened.

It does not takes more to grasp the F2P model. Log in game check the CC store, eventually move around a bit or try to interact with other players and you are done. Especially if it's not your first, even less if you played others F2P games.

Cartel store is not a f2p model, unless you are stating that WoW is f2p. I have tried out completely f2p, I made an account to see the different between my premium and the lowest teir. There are definately differences, and many of those differences are put in place to "help" the common population against spammers and gold farmers from making a ton of frree accounts and spamming up the worlds. The totally f2p model is specifically designed to make you spend money, IN ALL GAMES, just because you are not handed an easy button here does not invalidate the model.

Still you can't deny one don't need more than 20 minutes do grasp the F2P model and the obvious milk people with paying features like UI slots and so.

 

Among others, I have a level 50 Juggernaught and I can say I use 5 bars. I could go down to 4 maybe 3 but it would be a pain to play especially as I do both PvE and PvP, solo and multiplayer sessions. Then not saying UI isn't needed, still why should we accept paying for subpar UI features when we have better UI in other games and even more free UI addons and skins?

Kinda funny, I have a 50 Guardian, I can get by with 2 ACTIVE bars, you do understand that there are multple slots to the main bar right? I have one set for PVE, I have 1 set for PVP, I have one set for tanking. Now what I did is set the "universal" buttons on the second bar which does not change drastically. I've never understood this new generations inability to properly organize things. My Wife suffers from it and I am constantly reorganizing things for her on various games. Showing her ways to group skills, showing her skills that are only situational and putting them on "bar 2" (not a second active bar). In the past there have been many games that only offer a single active action bar but there were more than enough skills to fill those bars, you actually had to choose which ones you were going to use rather than have everything out there

Glad you admit 3 bars is far from optimal. Then i see we agree on no other MMO makes you pay for UI features and also others F2P MMO have even better UI.

 

For some of us it affects gameplay a lot as MMO aren't only about killing mobs. Following your logic, to some extend, you'd be fine to play a MUD because graphics are purely cosmetic.

Then once again, in other F2P MMO not only we can hide way more gear slots like: shoulder pads, hands, back, even feet, but also we have 2 or 3 dyeable  areas per item, versus in TOR they make people pay for changing one or two hue value (hint check Revan's set)

As a matter of fact one of my first computerized RPG experiences was on ZORK. I used to help program for several MUD and MUSH. I assisted with Harad on Elendor MUSH when they were switching over to what we called "Dynamic Space" for the desert. Pirate 101 and Wizard 101 are proof that graphics are not everything. I play them and personally think that they are far more entertaining than many of the MMO out there. BTW They also have far more restrictions in those games than most f2p especially if you actually want to do anything past lvl 10.

I have checked out the Reven Set, how does that have any bearing? You are describing LUXURY items. I'm all for having them make you pay for LUXURY items

Sorry but being able to hide armor, dye gear aren't luxury item in a MMO they are the norm now. MMO evolved..

Personally I like the LOTRO model of f2p. While I do not like the grind to get the "free" points it is a tiny taste of things to come, the nibbles that they offer gave me HUGE incentive to continue on in Lotro (been playing since day 1, even after the f2p conversion.

Intergesting. You agree on paying for UI features (free in LotRo) but then you don't like that Turbines allows you to earn, in game, Turbine points? Thing is if you don't want to grind in LotRo you can pay for them, they are leaving you the choice.

Weather of not I like the grind is personal preferance. I don't like grinding period, one big reason why I hate "Korean" style MMO's. I do have the ability to agree with how they are doing things, but not like them. I NEVER stated that I do not like that turbine alows you to earn them. I stated that I do not like to personally grind to get those free points. It isthe bee's knees that they allow you to get them if that is your cup of tea. Earning those free points in that fashion is not my cup of tea. That does not mean that I will not do it "just to get that extra 5 I need" it simply means that I will not intentionally go out of my way to farm every area to get those points

 Well then don't grind and pay with cash, no big deal. It's not like Turbine is requiring you to grind.

Thing is in TOR you can't earn CC coins in game.

Oh wait, I already mentioned that.

 

 

Originally posted by Alber_gamer

GW2 for me. Not because it's a bad game - it's better game than some of the other candidates. But because of how much was expected and how little delivered in proportion, which is itself the definition of 'disappointment'.

Funny how nowadays most disappointment in MMO comes from people expectations.

As for myself I expected nothing from GW2 and well I find it a very well done MMO.

Then, to my knowledge, there was no overhyping from the developers but mostly game play and development discussions.

In fact rest assured most studio would kill to be able to deliver such polished games with so many game play.

Now on the opposite of the spectrum may I mention TOR who was intentionaly overhyped by BioWare, was delivered in an unfinished state, did not improve that much since launch and is now a cashshop (&scam) intended to milk players without even trying to pretend adding real content.

Originally posted by IG-88

1st attempt Dec 2011 - Pure dissapointment.

This was the SW MMO that would succede SWG and forced its closure. Hyped to the max and fell like a stone.

Uninstalled it.

 

2nd attempt Nov. F2P. Still dissapointed. No MMO feel.

Uninstalled it.

 

3rd attempt. Dec 2012. Bored and tried it again and started to enjoy it.

Taking SWTOR for what it is:

Nice graphics.

Good storytelling.

Cool classquests with beautiful cutscenes.

 

And most important, taking SWTOR for what its IS NOT:

Its not an MMO. Its a massively single player game with multiplayer elements;

all quests, except heroics etc, are soloable.

Its not a social game with player interdependancy.

Its not a sandbox.

There is no roleplaying.

There is no in-depth crafting.

There is no player housing.

The spacecombat isnt simulator-like.

The is no immersion.

 

I think the problems i ´, and many other had, was that our expectations were totally off;

we expected the new SW MMO to be a SWG 2.0 set in the OR era.

We got caught up in the hype and got utterly dissapointed when we got this...well, nice casual thing that fits on the same shelf as Zyngas Farmville ec.

Anyway, im sorta enjoying it as F2P, and i dont see myself paying for it, ever.

Funny thing about the F2P model is your reduced XP. So, i dont level as fast. So, i need to do more quests, which is what im into the game for in the first place. So i get to see it all, which you wouldnt do if you were leveling faster. I mean, you dont go back to Tattoine as soon as you have left it behind you, right ?

 

Wrong we knew long ago it wasn't going to be SWG2 at all. We expected an AAA MMO topped with good story telling.

TOR isn't even a fair MMO and the story, apart say 2 of them are really poor, not even as good as what you can find in the Kotor serie.

Originally posted by mrrshann618

I'll fully agree that EA's approach to the f2p model did start out bad. It is their first attempt at it. However as things have progressed we are seeing a definate shift in the difference between preferred and totally f2p.

It did not improve. One example being the cartel packs scam.

This is an obvious indication that they are fixing things as they go. The more feedback on things, the more players are into the game, the more likely things are going to be adjusted to a "norm". However, as I stated, it is the vitriol that is spouting about the hate of the model by people who have not given it a real chance. I see posts "logged in 20 min saw the model and deleted game from comp" all the time. It is many of these same people who come on here and spout hatered over the "faults" of the currently infant f2p model.

It does not takes more to grasp the F2P model. Log in game check the CC store, eventually move around a bit or try to interact with other players and you are done. Especially if it's not your first, even less if you played others F2P games.

I'm not buying thing willy nilly from the store because they are "limted time" I will pay for things that I do consider that I want. I view the UI bars as such: "Prefs and subs have paid for them, I personally do not see the need for more than 2, I have a lvl 50 knight and can easily fit my manuvers on the bars. My extras such as buffs, quick travel, mounts ect. I just hit "P" , Ohh NOOO I have to wait 1 more second, or have an additional keystroke.

Among others, I have a level 50 Juggernaught and I can say I use 5 bars. I could go down to 4 maybe 3 but it would be a pain to play especially as I do both PvE and PvP, solo and multiplayer sessions. Then not saying UI isn't needed, still why should we accept paying for subpar UI features when we have better UI in other games and even more free UI addons and skins?

Hiding armor. Purely cosmetic, doesn't effect gameplay one bit, you want it pay for it, Subs do

Unifying color, I played at the beginning when you couldn't, You want it pay for it Subs do.

For some of us it affects gameplay a lot as MMO aren't only about killing mobs. Following your logic, to some extend, you'd be fine to play a MUD because graphics are purely cosmetic.

Then once again, in other F2P MMO not only we can hide way more gear slots like: shoulder pads, hands, back, even feet, but also we have 2 or 3 dyeable  areas per item, versus in TOR they make people pay for changing one or two hue value (hint check Revan's set)

 

People getting bent out of shape over LUXURY items just really ticks me off. Screw "industry standard" when in reality all they are talking about it WoW. You like WoW so much Why you here? So they changed their mind over Makeb, it isn't like companies haven't changed their mind in the past. NcSoft is notorious for axing popular things because they felt like it. I personally do not think the players of CoX deserved what they got. Companies in the long run do not care about the customer. All they care about is the money comming at them, it doesn't matter the company. Blizzard is no exception as proven by the launch of Diablo III. Their PvP model was promised but axed, while I saw some hate, not nearly the level that is aimed at this game.

There's a fine line between driving a company to make profit and blatantly milking players. TOR is in the second range. I guess you don't need me to lecture you on their, well behaviour?

Personally I like the LOTRO model of f2p. While I do not like the grind to get the "free" points it is a tiny taste of things to come, the nibbles that they offer gave me HUGE incentive to continue on in Lotro (been playing since day 1, even after the f2p conversion. Bioware (not EA) is still attepting to show that they care. Given EA's background I would definately state that the minor restructuring that is going on in the f2p model is driven by the Bioware team.

Intergesting. You agree on paying for UI features (free in LotRo) but then you don't like that Turbines allows you to earn, in game, Turbine points? Thing is if you don't want to grind in LotRo you can pay for them, they are leaving you the choice.

First if you think it's still BioWare you are delusional. (I'll post a few links later). Then apart fixing things they should not have messed up at first they aren't really showing they care, even less they listen to player feedback.

 

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by livespartan
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw6sp6dpJKRcaDdKTHFnQlp6Wjg/edit?pli=1

 

 

If anyone has a complete text of the EA louse, please link .. Wordpress deleted the topic (likely because of EA pressure).

 

There you go: EA Louse blog, and a look into it 2 years later.

But what you really want to read is EA Spouse blog and the follow-up.

Originally posted by Rocketeer

Originally posted by Scarfe

Originally posted by MurlockDance

Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

When I read about that I lost any shredd of respect I had for that company.  Customizable UIs are almost a given nowdays with anygame.  Now they want to dictate how much of a UI you can have.  This stuff might fly over in Europe; but, this is the exact opposite of how you run a business in a capitalist society.

This is complete and utter ignorance! Bravo!

Edit - btw, ToR seems more popular in the US than in the EU. Just look at the server loads.

I am glad you pointed that out.  Astonishing level of ignorance. 

Just in pointing out that this is the exact way of how you run a buisness in a capitalist society, i.e. nickle and diming people and milking every penny you can get out of them. Any company NOT doing that is bound to fail in capitalism since your competitors will do it and have superior funds allowing them to aquire patents and kill you by patent war attrition or outright buy you.

There is a reason Apple got so much money in such a short time(i mean hundreds of billions in ten years?), look how much they charge for a ram upgrade in one of their laptops or how much their profit margin is on their phones. 

 

I mean if what EA is doing isn't capitalism at its finest ... what is it then? Sure doesn't look like communism or socialism to me.

You are totally right people don't mind paying for quality.

That being said while Apple is on top of the food chain regarding quality, TOR is closer to the bottom.

That's why hundreds of thousand people quit, saying TOR wasn't worth Wow $15 monthly fees.

Interesting how form grear presentation the thread evolved in a totally different way

When starting a topic you never know how it will evolve ;)

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

 

No matter what their intentions were... free months is free month - it pays in full for the Makeb expansion /grin

I mean seriously? We are that low that people need to find such excuses for explaining the price of a DLC on top of the sub?