Originally posted by Vendegaar

More of the same arguments from people who want everyone to be FORCED to play in groups.

 

Hypocrisy is bad kids...mmkay?

 

My reasons for playing EXCLUSIVELY SOLO - which I have posted before on other threads.

1.  I have been playing for over three years now and have yet to have any of my troops high enough to where I can generate a Death Knight. Speed in leveling is NOT one of my priorities.

 

Ok then, I suppose you just suck then?  My 12 year old niece got to 60-something inside 3 months and she is limited to an hour of game-time every other day.

Ironically, she plays the game better than I do.

 

2.   I am a HOPELESS altoholic - I have almost 100 toons under TWO accounts on WOW.  If i want to try some new class, race or talent combination I will generate a new toon - even if I have to delete a mid 40s level toon to do it.

 

Ok....

 

3.   If I want to spend an hour or two grinding up a profession (mining, herbalism, etc) or secondary profession (fishing, cooking, etc.) I can do so without a bunch of idiots bitching at me about holding up THEIR progress. I frankly DO NOT GIVE A CRAP about THEIR progress.

 

I am still failing to see why grouping is bad here.  You, like many of the other 'solo' enthusiasts make the assumption that 'grouping'  enthusiasts want to completely eliminate any solo element.  We simply want there to be a reason for grouping to be desirable.  As it is now, games 'allow' grouping.  But the way the games are designed it's counter-productive to group.

 

4.   Soloing is the ONLY way a player can REALLY learn how to play a class.  You quickly learn ALL the strengths and weaknesses of the class - something that can NEVER be learned in groups just fulfilling a small predetermined group niche.

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

 

Oh...ahah...ehh..eheh...hoo....wait...sh**, you're serious?

I can't count on both hands and feet how many idiots I've ran into in the high level instances that didn't know their class from a hole in the ground.  Largely in-part because they never grouped in their entire career with anyone.

 

5.   I DO NOT buy the argument that Massivly Multiplayer Onilne gaming means that the intent is that players MUST play in groups. I engage with the other players on line thru the Auction House and in other manners.

 

So...by online interaction...you just want the people to be there.  But you don't really want to have to do any nasty, uh what do you call it...INTERACTING.

You want to play a game by yourself, but have a large group of people to support your time playing without having to give anything back to them.  What a selfish mindset.

 

6.   This game has a far larger world than any single player game.  I play for enjoyment - not to see how fast I can finish the game.

 

And why can't this be done with say, 1 or more other people as well?

 

7.  I have played in groups and have been ripped off by people who formed them in order to get the goodies that THEY wanted in a instance - and then hearthed out leaving me in the middle of the mob. when they got what they wanted.

 

Yes, and if there was an emphasis on grouping...those actions would be scorned heavily.   As it stands now people get away with crap like that because they can.  There are no reprocussions, because they can do it, then continue playing the game by themselves without want or worry of what others think.

Whereas in a game like FF11, if the same jackhole did something like that.   They'd be immidiately blacklisted by almost the entire server.  Their progression would come to a dead halt.

 

8.   I PAY MY OWN MONTHLY FEES FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF PLAYING THE GAME. If someone else wants me to play THEIR way they can pay my fees for me - until then don't bitch about how I play.

 

As long as you don't bitch about how I want to play either.  I pay my own monthly fees for my privilege as well.  So what?  Am I SOL, because your 15$ is more important than mine?

 

Again, hypocrisy is bad kids...mmkay?

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by metalhead980

Well I'm glad my rant was well recieved by most of you. I normally don't do these since they invite a good amount of Tldr people and flamers.

Anyway, The reason I tossed this thread up was my brother. See he plays WoW and I just happened to be looking over his shoulder the other day as he was setting to clear that one room 25 man raid they have in the game.

Well his guild needed two guys and they happened to invite two rogues to the raid and got them setup in Vent. The two players turned out to be a older husband and wife duo and were pretty awesome while on vent.

Anyway as they get summoned to the raid my brother is already on the armory page checking them out. when they get to the raid he mouses over them and check a "gear score" with a add on.

They had decent gear but being the complete ass hole he is he requested they be kicked on vent and the GM dropped them.

Now he had no idea how good these players were and because he was able to invade these poor players privacy (nice people that only wanted to help anyway) he got to just toss them out on their asses.

This kind of pissed me off.

 

The bullshit people do in these progression item farm pve games fucking blow and I strongly believe people should be able to protect themselves from this type of crap.

 

Well, Thanks for reading.

 

 

Do me a favor. Smack your bro upside the head next time you see him. You can even say Zorvan sent you. lol
 

Seriously, do more than smack him upside the head for me.

Punch him.  In his taint.  Hard.

Originally posted by kanaetr

Ultima Online without no doubts had the best pvp ever build in a mmorpg game imo.

Ironically, in all of my time playing UO...I hardly ever participated in PVP.  Well except for that 3 month stint in BaGook Tribe.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by chrisel

Seriously!

With all this nagging from the "group-lovers" about how they fail to understand why people like to solo, I have started to wonder if I missed something vital in the MMO world; Are there no MMO's left where you are allowed to group? All the MMO's I have played so far, have some sort of feature that allows players to form groups so they can play & quest together.

Has this changed lately? Or maybe, these "group-lovers" have become the real freaks of the MMO's...? Therefore they are die hard desperate to tell the MMO world that it IS okay to have fetisch on forced-grouping, and "that" should be the main feature of every MMO?

To me, as been into the MMO world for around 10 years now, has seen that MMO's which forced people into grouping to be able to play the game, have been either a failure OR has been deserted (epsecially after WoW release). Such games have become obsolete, plain & simple. Forced-grouping will NEVER be a major feature of any MMO that has ambition nor ability to rival World of Warcraft.

Mark my words.

 

Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft.  Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping.  Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement.  As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo.   It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.

 

This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping.  He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.

Because at the moment it's heavily swayed in favour of 'encouraging' soloing while 'allowing' grouping.  Right now if WoW 'balanced' grouping and soloing so that there was no appreciable difference between the two...there'd be a MASSIVE uproar from the soloing community.  That how DARE they infringe on their soloing rights!

Hypocrisy goes both ways buddy.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Saerain

Has anyone ever tried even the most state-of-the-art voice changers? They are not convincing, in my experience. I can't imagine any serious confusion being a problem for a few years to come.

And when it does occur, why care?

 

Not that they would matter all that much considering the best guilds are always off site. Guilds use cams &  their own voice programs anyways and if your not willing to play by the guilds rules, you won;t be accepted anyhow.  It isn;t like we use their in game chat options all that much because ALL in game chat blows chunks as it is. So if some dude was pretending to be a girl, as soon as they did a guild interview they wouldn;t make it pass step one anyways so it wouldn;t matter.

It only matters to those "in game only guilds" which everyone knows they are full of creeps so why would anyone want to do that? LMAO

 

 

I never join guilds. Just not my thing. Often group with people in guilds, just not a joiner.

I guess you like this sort of play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grCTXGW3sxQ

LOL! No, I have never been in a guild remotely like that. College guilds are a bit different. They are started on campus, with people you actually hang out with and expand, but have strict "out of game requirements". The only person from "The Guild" show that would have even had a remote possibility of being admitted to our guild would have been the Asian chic. We actually had a girl in our guild that reminded me of her. But like I said before, Having strict personality requirements and weeding out the over emotional bi polar, kids, and creepy people made for a much better group in and out of game.
 

Our applicants had to go through a video or in person interview before even being allowed to "tag" along on events. They actually had to attend out of game events before being admited. (  get them drunk and see how they REALLY are)

Lol...what the hell.

In my day they called those things fraternities and sororities.  And most of them didn't involve MMORPGs, any of the good ones anyway.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Saerain

In recent years, I've come to consider guild websites almost completely redundant, considering the guild tools in the games I play, namely EVE. I can't think of anything they offer that isn't available in-game, unlike back in EverQuest's days. With the exception of truly enormous super-guilds, I suppose.

 

I guess because I have always been in "college" guilds, it is a bit different. We actually do things together for real, so posting those type of guild events would not be appropriate in an " on site" forum. We have our own rules.. not having someone else dictating them to us. We play together in and out of game, so who is actually in the guild actually matters moreso than some in game only guild.

Ah, college age.  That explains a lot.

Honestly...I think it all comes down to is....

Who cares?

I get all sides of this argument.  There are those who simply just say there are more important things to worry about in the world.  Then there are the others who hate being afraid to reach out and cyber-touch someone because of this.  Then there are the girls (I say girls specifically, because this should be no issue with any adult woman) who enjoy all of the fame, attention, and whatnot their 'unicorn' status brings online, and deeply resent 'impostors' horning in on their fun.  I think all sides have their merits and no one of them are wrong or right, because they are all just subjective facets of the same diamond.

Come on, Jon...now you're just being reasonable!

Look at the bright side, Jon accomplished what he set out to do.

Made a controversial article about a very touchy subject on a popular item, and BAM!  Instant site flood.

All the lovely traffic, good for business.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

---

Originally posted by TsukieU

 

 

I don't get the mentality of people reading that line and then suddenly jumping to, "Show us your goodies!". I guess that's just the mindset of America?

It's carrying out the idea to it's absurd extreme. it's a common device used  to point out how stupid something is. It shows the mindset in the United States doesn't allow such bizarre restrictions. 

 

Yes they do, you left out this part;

 

"Taking a webcam shot of you holding your Driver's License or other Government I.D. is a perfectly valid way of proving your Biological Sex. Quite a few dating sites require that sort of proof.

I don't get the mentality of people reading that line and then suddenly jumping to, "Show us your goodies!". I guess that's just the mindset of America?

Seeing as MMOs to the Chinese are roughly equivalent to social networking sites in the USA, I don't honestly see it as that big an issue."

 

If you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing.  Not just the bits that make your argument look better.
 
It's discriminatory, but it's also necessary where the margin of male population in the country means that a very good number of men are going to live lonely lives.  You know, since the whole government is freakishly homophobic.

Homophobia isn't necessary. In any form. Ever.  I's also not necessary for the margin of male population to be that high.

 

I think you might be confused, it's not necessary for the margin of male population to be that high...no.   But it is that high, whether it is necessary or not.

 

Oh you also did the same thing again, here let me help you and add the text you cut out;

"Honestly, it's even more discriminatory to men. This is sort of a subversive way of routing out what they view as, "homosexual, or deviant sexual behaviour". Women being discriminated against is more or less collateral damage."
 

Homophobia isn't necessary, but I see it as a smart move from a company that is trying it's best to stay on the government's good side. 

 

Keep in mind this isn't government mandated, but rather a company's policy.  It's not about human rights when it's a product's terms of use.  Even in America it's not uncommon to have restrictions on a product's terms of use similar to this.

Besides, we're talking about the country, that not even 50 years ago is was common practice to bind women's feet so that they couldn't travel far or run away without a man's help.

 Fifty years ago in the United States it was common practice to murder young people and bury them in swamps for registering black people to vote. We got over that. China needs to come out of it's dark ages too. They will be ridiculed until they do.
 

 

Yes and people still do die for such things in places in America.  You are asking for an overnight instantaneous change.  These things do not happen.

 

 

Not hard to tell which side of the fence you are on.

But then it's an editorial, not news I suppose. ;D

Originally posted by Terranah

Originally posted by demarc01

Originally posted by Terranah

It's really a form of discrimination and sexual harassment against women.  I mean, let's distill it down to what it is:  If you're a girl show me your pussy or you can't play.  Whatever rationalization or justification the developers give is irrelevant.

 

Imagine this for a second.  You get up early one morning and on your way to the kitchen to make some breakfast you see your mom....or your sister....with their pants down holding the webcam over their vagina.  Who the hell is okay with that but some sick person.

 

This has turned into an argument over guys play male toons so they must be gay, bla bla bla.  No, the argument is actually more fundamental than that, it's a question of women being forced to do something demeaning to participate in the same thing that a male does.  It's discriminatory and demeaning.

 

Point 1 - "Show me your pussy or you can't play"

Odd but i did'ent see that anywhere. The method of proof required was'ent stated because the writer could'ent bother his lazy arse to do some research. As far as we know all it requires is a valid credit card (Your sex is linked to your credit card account btw) Your just taking the worst possible case and running with it, the same as the OP infured. Its called media-hype .. learn to see past it.

Point 2 - "Can't play"

/sigh Did you even read the artical at all? Female gamers are free to play males with no sex verification required. So to say they can't play if they dont verify it totally wrong again. Discrimination against women? Ok so lets get this straight. Woman can play male characters no problems as can males. Women who verify thier sex (Again ... less of the show us your pussy talk and be reasonable .. credit card? Passport? Fucking DRIVERS LICENSE?) can play females but males never can. According to you thats discrimination against women? Err ok, rock on genius.

  Point 1- Maybe you should read the article. Here's a quote from the OP:

 

This company cares so deeply that not only are they freezing the accounts of any male players who may have happened to have created female toons, but they are even going so far as to require "gamers who chose female characters to prove their biological sex with a webcam."

 

  Taking a webcam shot of you holding your Driver's License or other Government I.D. is a perfectly valid way of proving your Biological Sex. Quite a few dating sites require that sort of proof.

I don't get the mentality of people reading that line and then suddenly jumping to, "Show us your goodies!". I guess that's just the mindset of America?

Seeing as MMOs to the Chinese are roughly equivalent to social networking sites in the USA, I don't honestly see it as that big an issue.

 

Point 2- Anyone playing a female toon must show proof of their gender. Since males are excluded from playing female toons as is their policy, only women wishing to play a female toon would be subjected to this policy. So yes it is discriminatory. Back at you, genius.

 

It's discriminatory, but it's also necessary where the margin of male population in the country means that a very good number of men are going to live lonely lives.  You know, since the whole government is freakishly homophobic.

 

Honestly, it's even more discriminatory to men.  This is sort of a subversive way of routing out what they view as, "homosexual, or deviant sexual behaviour".  Women being discriminated against is more or less collateral damage.

 

Besides, we're talking about the country, that not even 50 years ago is was common practice to bind women's feet so that they couldn't travel far or run away without a man's help.

 

 

Originally posted by demarc01

Originally posted by TsukieU

I think this has more to do with the Chinese state of things more than anything.

 

In most countries women outnumber men just slightly, or are almost even.  In China the ratio is something like 10 men to every 1 woman.  This, where the government is panic-struck by the mere thought of homosexuality.  So it is sort of understandable from the perspective of one of the largest game companies, where a good number of Chinese men spend most of their waking moments in these games.

 

Is it right?  No...but it does make sense.

 

LOL 10:1 Indeed.

The current ratio is 106 men to 100 women. Expected to rise to 112 men to 100 women in the next few years. Really .. try a quick search to confirm facts before typing trash like 10:1 lol.

Sure that dont sound alot at first .. but when you concider China's popluation of 1.3 billion that means that alot of horney men are out of luck (in the region of 400,000) that kinda smacks hard ...

I keep forgetting sarcasm and exaggeration don't carry well over the internet.

I think this has more to do with the Chinese state of things more than anything.

In most countries women outnumber men just slightly, or are almost even.  In China the ratio is something like 10 men to every 1 woman.  This, where the government is panic-struck by the mere thought of homosexuality.  So it is sort of understandable from the perspective of one of the largest game companies, where a good number of Chinese men spend most of their waking moments in these games.

Is it right?  No...but it does make sense.

Did I seriously just see the Sorcerer cast a spell by gyrating her hips?

Originally posted by bstripp

Originally posted by TsukieU

What worries me is that no where in that article did they say that these updates will be free.

 

Smacks head into wall...

Really?

Yesterday they announced the first FREE content update which should occur sometime around halloween.  Today they announce their content update schedule, which includes the one they are already talking about, for FREE.  Serriously, it's not that hard to figure this out.

Their MT model is not some evil scheme to make you sub and then pay for everything.  It's optional, and replaces some grinding for  items you can mostly get in game.  So far everything the doomsayers have claimed has been false.  Content updates: free.  Respecs: free.  Pay for new powersets: free.

I really don't see this changing either.  It's just an ingame version of what CoH, WoW, and other games already have.  It's not that big of a deal.  However, put the tin foil hat on, and worry away.

My only real concern is the longevity and the amount of content they can put out.  The game is pretty polished for a release, it's hellishly fun, and there is a large variety in how characters can be built and played.  So far it's been a total blast.

Ahem.

“We are definitely planning on making them paid expansions", Emmert said.

What worries me is that no where in that article did they say that these updates will be free.

Originally posted by Wookiee6648

Blah the game will suck, AoC (i know different game and company but only one i know is for console and PC) plays ten times worse on console than it does on the PC.

It is more fun for MMO's to be on the PC (as most games) IMO. So why would CCP kick themselves in the nutz to make a stooooopid console game, when console games blow (well the new tiger woods golf was pretty fun but still) and are not as fun or last as long even tho it will be an mmo.

Looking at most the games coming out on console, the only reason companies make console games is for a cheap quick buck (like blizzard and the way they are going). Gaming companies need to get away from making crappy console game like Dust 514 and make them for PC. Only simple games like golf, short shooter games like Duck Hunt or something are fun on console.

  So to recap BLAH!  on CCP

AoC is only on the PC right now.  So I have no idea how you know it runs terribly on the console, when it does not exist.

Blizzard isnsofar as I am aware isn't planning ANY console releases.

The only MMO that I am aware of that is on both the PC and console, is Final Fantasy 11.  And it does it wonderfully, the game has not changed on account of it, only grown.

This reeks of a deadline article.  Poor proof reading, erratic lines of thought, and no real investigation into the issue.  Anyone who has even done casual research into the subject of customizability will know that games other than WoW offer it in spades.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Comnitus 

Because lifetime sub = fail game that'll shut down, like Hellgate: London?

Or are you just targeting CO specifically as a bad game?

Anytime a company offers a lifetime supply of something but only before you get to try it out (since most people won't be in the 'open' Beta), your scam alarm should be going off.

Not saying it IS a scam, but it IS wearing a scam's uniform. (Apologies to Dave Chappelle.)

If the 'open' Beta is missing content from the closed Beta -  run like hell.

Amen to that.  All you people looking forward to Open Beta...keep a close eye out and ask a lot of questions of the people who have been there a while.