All Posts by Umbrood

Hey, I finally voted yes.. ;)

If I must pick on something ( and thats just who I am ).

This looke like it belongs in the developer section.. 

This is one of the most important factors for me.

Even though I hope to never need it, should I though I demand it to be top notch.

Not only that, good CS shows that the company cares about their customers, that they are in it for the long run and they are willing to rigth wrongs.

In EQ2 I once got "blackholed", meaning my character was lost in limbo, I was in constant contact with the server GM for two days until he fixed it, without CS that character would have been lost forever.

When new to EVE I lost a ship due to a server crash, this was reimbursed, had this not been so I would probably have left.

I worked in the ARK program for Anarchy Online when it launched, ( and those who remember that launch migth be able to imagine how that was like ).

And not counting in game issues there are things like billing, this just has to be done well for obvious reasons.

Quite frankly, customer service makes or breaks a company, why should these company be any different?

Looking at the technical issues in most recent and past releases this bussiness need it more then most others.

Realising this does not require a college degree in economics, I doubt it even requires a high school diploma.

And yet amazingly, there seem to be people who do not get this.

Originally posted by Talinguard

After asking this question once I received several good suggestions.  However I'm afraid the way I asked the question lead to some confusion and may have skewed my scores.....

I would like to present the chart again and ask the question:

Is the flowchart representative of many of the more popular MMOG's?  WoW, DAoC, Everquests, Shadowbane, Guild wars, SWG, Horizons, ect.....

Please understand that this flow chart is meant to be a general representation.  It is not an overview of the entire economy.

Also, it is only for cash inflows, not outflows. 

Remember that income made from other players via crafting, or class specific skills are covered in the green box at the top.  Also receiving gifts is included in the box at the top, giving gifts is a cash outflow.

Red lines represent cash

Green lines represent items

 

Well I did not vote "no" this time, but I had to put "not sure".

You should remove the flow from cash to vendor/auction, that is probably part out of the outflow, even though it directly comes from drops or whatever.

If you buy stuff in your "inflow" chart then how will you represent that money in the outflow chart?

It is never good to have it in two places.

I would remove the arrows between vendor/auction, it is also two way wich is a bit confusing.

Just dont spend money in your inflow chart, it will just make it harder for you later.

In fact, if you make the flow from cash to player two-way then you will have a very accurate flowchart of ALL cash, both in and out.

Just add an extra box and call it "misc" as in gift to friends, booze, hookers and so on.

Originally posted by METALDRAG0N

 

Perhaps you are to used to being spoon fed in standard cookie Cutter MMO's then?

 

 

EvE's skill system works just fine for eve as its got little to do with charecter advancment.

And the charecter customisation is actually better than most MMO's.

 

Unless you can come up with some good examples to say otherwise tho?

How on earth does EVE skill system have ANYTHING to do with being spoon fed in other MMO's?

In fact, if anything EVE's skill system is the least involved of any I know of, its set it and forget it.

Not saying it is bad, I kinda like it, put pulling the "Ah, so EVE is so hard you can not cope with it?" comment every friggin time is a bit unimaginetive dont you think?

You can not pull that comment  every time someone says seomthing bad about eve, really, it does not always apply.

It certainly does not here and I am kinda fed up with people giving this game a bad name, wich it does not deserve.

There is no character customisation in EVE, period. You create a JPG of your toon when you start, it never changes, its like 128*128 pixels big, and you never see your character other then that picture.

If I were at all to guess?

You have not seen any other MMO then EVE have you?

Originally posted by Torak

 

Ah but there is a way to tell if its true or not, look at the current state of MMO's. Derivative, repetitive copies of each other. Forced "visions" of developers who basically started the genre and haven't moved it forward an inch in 10 years. They are trying to fit square pegs in round holes as the market has evolved but they haven't.  They assume that players want more versions of WoW because WoW is successful but that is clearly not the case. We already played WoW and EQ and are looking for something new, not a re-run of last year with a new skin.

 

 

Not really what I meant though, my point was that it is hard to know if MMO companies are good or bad at market research as it seems none of them have ever done it.

Now that is bad of course, but still does not say wether or not they would do it well if they tried.. ;)

Thats the flows I was looking for, it now looks a lot more accurate, but I have allready voted so, sorry.

Originally posted by Mundus

Neocron was the first 2nd generation MMORPG.

Combining RPG with FPS-like combat system, having vehicles and housing right away and being like a true MMORPG should be: uninstanced (except housing). Apart from that it had great pvp with seizable locations (factories, outposts) on the world map.
 Moreover, though being level-based, it was skill-based and you didn't have to reroll your character entirely, if you wanted to change something.

Quite a few features the alleged 3rd generation MMOGs advertise with, even though often lacking them at release (see vg and housing, tr and decent pvp).

 

Admittedly Neocron has its flaws, but still for me it is the best MMO to date. Not so much the RPG portion of the game, but rather the MMO and PVP one. I say that even though I don't play it anymore. Then again, I haven't played any MMO for years, since I've been disappointed with everything else I tried.
 I guess I won't be playing MMOs until a better Neocron pops up. Until then I hope that Hellgate London will be a fun online game to play.

 

I kinda liked Necron to, but AO came out before and had most of them features, just not the seizable locations, that came in notum wars, wich I think they released after Neocron.

I would have to say Anarchy Online fas the "next step" in MMO evolution.

It still sports more features then most other games and has a skill/level and item system that is far superior to everything else.

I do not see a 3rd gen game on the horizon ( Hey, Horizon was pretty unique as well ).

To be a new generation you need to somehow reinvent the genre, just being new does not cut it.

I would like to see:  AO's lvl/skill and item system, with EQ2 's lore and quest system, throw in SWG's crafting system and add EVE's pvp system and you are getting there.. ;)

Originally posted by Aguy

Today I heard an amazing quote from this girl in my class.

"Oh, France is in Europe?"

 

Dont judge her to hard.

Perhaps she read this recent study done in europe were an overwhelming majority, said they WISHED France was not in Europe.

Even the french picked that option.

Originally posted by Kaabulk

Yeah I agree, What will the world be without emo kids commiting suicide? Plus if my life was truly as horrible as a emo kid who lives in a mansion then yea I would attempt to kill myself... I lived in a ghetto for 4 years (8 - 12 years old) and I didn't feel like killing myself... In fact that was the most memorable time of my life.... I guess the richer you are the harder happiness is to find. The constitution gives us the right to the pursuit of happiness, but what if we can't find it then what? Just keep looking for a miracle to relieve you, or end your life quickly and hope theres a happy afterlife, if not then you took the risk instead of waiting to see if there would be a happy ending.

Unless of course yer a muslim, then the option is always there to become a suicide bomber, guaranteed nice afterlife, and you do not have to put up with this one.

Hmm wonder why they seem to have no problem recruiting..

But my real point on this topic.

Your life, your choices.

No, as you only have cash flowing in one direction, wich is rarely the case.

Unless that was the intention, to only make a chart of incoming money, but I fail to see what use you could get from the chart then.

Originally posted by Torak

Also, MMOs are the poorest market researchers on the planet. There is about ZERO market research done before a game enters concept, none done while in development, none done at launch, and none done over the life of the game.About the only time you see anything is when you unsubscribe, maybe you get a survey and thats a day late and a dollar short. Finding out you made a bad design choice after everyone leaves your game is useless information.

I assume their reasoning is that as long as they fall within the standrad MMO "concepts" there is no need for market research. seeing as the genre and its demographic is well known.

I would still like to se an professional market study of this, so that we, and publishers, can learn what people really want.

I am starting to think that we all play these elves and dorfs because we have vey little choice.

I dare bet that had Blizz made world of starcraft instead it would have been just as successful but the market today would have looked a lot different, less elves more robots, so to speak.

Pretty sure I am going to play TR for a while for all its flaws, about now I can take any form of abuse as long as it saves me from the damn sword and sorcery crap.

Originally posted by sniperg

Thing is at FFA PVP a very little of its fan base is mature enough to handle and apply it. Many more of the PvPers want an free for all gank fest with no consquences. Pretty much they want to kill everyone and anyone without something affect that. Very few games have applied a form of that so it's logical that PvP in a mmo makes sense only in with certain support mechanisms like the battlegrounds.

There are ways to make FFA pvp fun and enganging for every player but unfortunately this requires thought and a bit inovation by the developers.

 

I do not think you can make FFA PVP fun for people that themself want to decide when and were they engage in it.

The bulk of online gamers today are around 30 years old, many with tigth schedules and not all that much spare time.

To have my online experience being dictated by youngster with to much time on their hands, or adults with to much time on their hands, ( Were I pay for the formers schooling, wich he does not attend apparently, and the laters whatever income he is getting ), does not at all interest me.     Ok that was stretching it a bit, but not all that much.

There are great PVP games, EVE being one of them, but it still leaves you with a choice to degree.

I have debated this so many times but my point always end up something similar to.

When given the choice, people will always pick the option were they are allowed to choose.

Forced groupin, forced PVP, forced whatever and people will start to look for something else, and seeing how many games are out there, how many more are coming, and what they offer they are soon to find something more to their liking.

UO worked because it was the only choice available, until EQ showed up.

This is just not the case anymore.

If your idea of fun is to kill me but my idea of fun is not to be killed by you then how can we possibly play the same game? 

The fundamental flaw of the open PVP dream is that everyoen wants to be the predator but no one wants to be the prey.

Seeing how the FFA crowd behaves even before they even have a game to play I shudder when I think about what will happen when and if they do.

Calling people carebears, idiots, gutless or whatever and constantly use phrases like "go play wow u nub kthxbye" will never ever make someone play a game that is solely for your amusement.

Honestly, how old are you people? The "are you a chicken?" comment stopped working when most people were twelve.

Ok, I am rambling, sorry, I will stop now.

I could go on though, I will not however. 

/edit Oh, I better clarify, most of this was not aimed at you Sniper, I realise it may have come across that way, sorry

Most of the older games have very little hand holding, there usually is a storyline but it is not forced on you.

AO For example has a very intricate storyline, one I used indulge myslef into, but fact is that most players have no idea what is beyond "omni VS clan".

EVE nowadays at least have a tutorial that helps you out a lot in your first steps, fairly well done and you no longer get dropped in space with no guidance what so ever.

After that though EVE is pretty brutal in its "off hand" approach.

As many have said, EQ2 migth be what you are looking for, it do have a lot of "fed-ex" quests and what not, but it also have storyline quests, quest archs and above all heritage quests that not only takes you all over the world but also gives you a very nice story to read.

To a large degree it guides you from the noob area, out of the city suburbs into Antonica or commonlands, then on to Nektulos or Thunderings steppes, from there on you have Zek or Enchanted lands, both fairly similar in level, but very different in appearance.

Then there is Feerott with its thick djungles, old temples and even older evils, closely followed by Everfrost and  lavastorm wich was the last real playfields in the original release.

And yes they both appear as they sound.. ;)

The last two had one instance each as well for the end game, Permafrost and Soluseks eye.

Solusek is still one of the most awe inspring places ive been to yet in any computer game.

And, as I said this is still only the original release, few people go to these places anymore, but that makes them even more fun to traverse, especially if you have not been there before.

With the Deserts of Flames, Kingdom of skies, Echos of Faydwer and now soon to come kunark expansion the only real flaw eq2 has is it insane mass of content, so much that you are unlikely to be able to explore it all, wich is a shame really.

Get the hang of it and then cherry pick, do the Heritage and Hallmark quests, oh and the collection quests, wich are like pure binary heroin if you ask me.

That alone will probably take you to 70 and then some, with a fairly deep knowledge of norrath, its gods and places.

Man, now I worked myself into an eq2 frenzy, I am going to go and resub.. ;)

And for gaming, in any form, do not buy cordless. ( especially not for FPS or RTS )

Even the best of them have response times that arefar behind even the oldest ps2 keyboards.

This is even more important with a mouse.

If EA were the only publisher of MMO's I would quit this genre alltogether.

I would never invest time into something they were involved with because I know that the very same second the game would turn less then a 30% profit they WILL shut it down, no attempts will be made to keep it alive, nor will any changes.

Not saying that it will do bad, chances are slim to be honest, but they are there.

In an ironic way EA is very predictable this way.

They are the Bloody monsanto corporation of gaming.

Not to forget.

Jackson leaves out the entire old forest chapter, including Tom Bombadil, wich kinda saddened me a bit.

Still, this is probably one the best attempts at moving books to the screen that I know of.

In fact The two towers were actually better then the book in my opinion.

Ok I did a quick search.

I do not hink I am allowed to link them but do a search for "arabic" at gamelink or channel69?

There must be a reason that most of the porn created around there is aimed at gays?

Fairly sure MR. Mhamujahedin has "bitten the pillow" on more the one occasion. 

1. Inability to explore, let me clarify.

Unless it is a thousand feet wall, with overhang, I want to be able to traverse it, gentle slopes that stops me drives me friggin nuts, invisible walls that are just there to "cut you off" is equally maddening. I want to go were I am not "supposed" to, thereby comes point 2:

2. Level locks, especially for areas but for features as well, as in lotrlol ( yes I renamed it ), to take the horse from esteldin to Bree you need to be level 30?? Shit like that will make me leave.

3. This ties into point 2 but, level locks on items is stupid, if you know Anarchy Onlines system then you know how it is supposed to be, skill based. Allthough I am not against levels, but again AO's system is an awesome hybrid.

4. Slow travel, allthough I love to explore, as my first points might have hinted, when I have done that I do NOT want to run there, this is probably the laziest timesink in these kind of games, my online time is much to limited to spend it on something I REALLY loathe.

5 Suicidal mobs, as in aggro mobs, now mobs should aggro me for sure when they see me, but they should have at least a snowballs chance in hell to kill me, again a lazy timesink. If a mob aggros me when I am AFK and it can NOT kill me, then it should not have gone for me in the first place. This should at least apply to mobs that are supposed to be semi-intelligent.

Points 4 and 5 together is such an obvious stupid timesink. What ever happened to subtlety?

I could go on with features I need as well, but that was not asked for but I shall add, I need to be able to Jump, thats a total deal braker for me.

Originally posted by Jackcolt

For anyone who actually understands computer architechture, they'll know that a computer will never EVER replace human.

You should watch the BBC Horizon episode called "Human V 2.0"

Not only are there people who actually understands computer architecture, but there are people who are considered the top scientists in the field, and they beg to differ.

Any of the Horizon episodes is a good watch in any case, all 139 of them.. ;)