Originally posted by BoudahXL

Originally posted by Duilyon

I think the MMO community will play a GOOD Sci-fi MMO. Just look at EVE online! They have a thriving community because it is a quality game with a good amount of content and creativity. Even if its a rather complicated game it still gets a lot of subscriptions.

 

If tabula rasa actually got good updates that would actually add some content then this game would be just as big as SWG. It would probably still be a niche game but the population would be that of DDOs and such. Which isn't bad by any means.

 

So its not the fact that its a Sci-fi game its the fact that it lacks content and polish.

 

While you have some good points there, you're missing a few facts.

Eve population was disastrously low during the first 2 years of existence, and then it exploded to the level we know today.I know I had 3 accounts from day 1, sold my last one last week.

That said EVE had just about no content in terms of quests/missions or npc's, NPC were basically the same ships player flew cept for stats and few cosmetics.

The game was riddled with bugs and bad support during the first year, you could make your opponent (network)lag so much,that you could destroy his ship, pod the guy and then loot his ship, before he could even finish loading the zone.

Since then they added cloaking zoning, fixed cops, added tons of ships, modified the weapon system, basically after two years they got it right with the help of thousands of paying beta players...

I guess people tend to forget big players like Blizzard and WoW, does anyone remember how it was back then?The first year of WoW?Empty zones, not even one friggin NPC, PvP instances, siege, hero class didn't even existed, although it was promised.

Give an mmo at least a year or two before dragging it into the mud.

TR has a strong combat system, tons of missions, few bugs, now they need to fix the game so people like it.Add more fun stuff to do, high end grinding, better PvP, I dunno maybe unlock a new zone or raise lvl cap.

EVE is a sandbox MMO, and there are few if any of those left, which is I'd say accounts for that game's popularity. Even with a lack of "content" they basically give you the keys and let you make your own.

Tabula Rasa is not a sandbox, it's a level-grinding amusement park like 99% of the MMOs out right now.

And choosing between TR and another game like WoW, LOTRO or EQ2 - what have you, is like choosing between Kings Island, Six Flags or Disney World and that greasy carnie attraction set up in the mall parking lot.

Sorry, but it's true. Even though I personally would like it to be otherwise.

EDIT: I hate ad hominems and I may have committed one, so I took it out to be safe.

Reading the addition of the new classes made me a little wary. Specifically the rune-master. The warden sounds like a really good idea.

Mainly the rune-master worries me about the abandonment of LOTRO's low-magic setting. That is something I really like and find unique about LOTRO. The magic and fantasy aren't all up in your face screaming "look at me, look at me!!"

Originally posted by openedge1

I am also not saying AoC is better. I have uninstalled the game due to concerns over Funcoms operation of the game. I just feel anyone who thought LOTRO was complete is just a little off also.

Not to feed the troll, but I thought it worth pointing out that no MMORPG is or should ever be complete. They are (at least to some degree) evolving worlds, are they not?

I have not myself played AoC, but I think the predominant reason people are bashing it or any other MMO isn't that they don't have the patience to wait for the bugs to be ironed out or content added, it's that they are paying every month to wait for bugs to be ironed out. After paying single-player price for the software in the first place.

I purposely did not buy AoC precisely because all the beta testers said it had problems and I'll wait until the bugs are ironed out and features are added. Then I'm sure it will be an awesome game. Unless it turns out like Tabula Rasa, which is sadly about as complete a failure as you can get. Talk about patience - the hardcore TR fanboi has to be the most patient sort of person in existence.

Originally posted by Beauman

Don't get me wrong, I'll admit that from what I have seen thus far in the trial, Turbine has done a great job with the material.

I wouldn't say I'm not an English lit nerd, myself.  Hell, I've been a published author for over 20 years (here and there) and run a publishing company of sorts (albeit a small one, currently).  I just found his narrative style to be dry.  Like I said, my personal tastes run more along the lines of the hit-and-run narrative styles of Roger Zelazny, Steven Brust, and Robert Asprin (and in some regards, Moorcock).

I won't say I don't like Middle Earth.  I do.  Just not his writing style.

No worries on that one. It took me quite a while I to slog my way through the books at first, and when I finally did it was mainly because I used several excellent maps from the old ICE MERPs (remember that game?) to track the fellowship's progress. I marked their path on the maps and wrote out bits of the book I liked on the back of the maps which made digesting the stories much easier for me.

Also, I floated my Jane Austen MMO idea past the gf last night and she said she would definitely play it, even though she has never played a video game in her life. Lol, I sold it as a Sims Online in early 19th century Britain. World of Fannycraft or Age of Darcy. lol

"Basically while LOTRO isn't revolutionary it is the furthest along the evolutionary chain of any MMO we have today or for the near future."

I agree. LOTRO has taken the level-based paradigm and sanded it down to an almost perfect finish. This is a big reason why LOTRO is my current favorite MMO and, right now, the only one I am playing.

I am also a BIG fan of the subtlety of LOTRO with regard to the "fantasy" element of the game. Turbine pretty much has got this about as right as anyone could. This toned-down approach is a welcome relief since it seems most games (not just MMOs) have abandoned this in favor of pandering to peoples' coolness-factor.

And even though LOTRO has a loot system typical to these sorts of games, it is not really at all a phat lootz sort of system. Crafted items are often just as good or better than anything that drops from a mob, and there is not much of an arms race to be the most l33t player on your server.

Another thing I have noticed about the LOTRO community: if you have been in a game like WoW (for example) how many players have you seen with names like "Ipwnyou" or "Critshappen" or "Zomgunoob"  any other number of stupid, immersion-breaking and psyche-griefing names? Hundreds if not thousands. How many in LOTRO have I noticed? A couple. There's always a few morons, but miraculously LOTRO seems to have precious few. (Maybe it has something to do with the of lack of the phat lootz and cartoonishly overdone graphics I mentioned earlier.)

I'm not an RPer (not hardcore anyway), but I think LOTRO would be a prime candidate for someone interested in that aspect of an MMORPG. Aside from the costuming you get at level 20, there is also an /rp switch you can set that announces you are RPing in the tooltip when someone mouses over your avatar in-game. Add to that the smaller-than-normal community of immersion-breaking asshats, and you have a recipe for RP fun (as much fun as you'll get in a public video game anyway).

So I hope your enjoying your trial!

I personally have been pining for a more sandbox game like EVE, but with people instead of ships - kinda like SWG pre-CU. But until a good fantasy or sci-fantasy sandbox game comes along I will be playing LOTRO if any MMO at all.

EDIT: I also think the initial reaction to your comment about not liking the LOTR books was knee-jerk. I have to admit, being something of a Tolkien fanboi for many, many years at first I was a bit put-off. But then I realized that it *is* Tolkien we are talking about - one of the great figures of 20th century English literature. I couldn't expect anyone else to be as stoked on, say, a Jane Austen MMO as I would be.

So no worries there - just take it as a positive sign that most if not all of us who are English lit nerds and Tolkien fanbois acknowledge that Turbine did a Fantastic (capital F) job with their treatment of the subject matter.

I also played DDO back in beta and a little after and was not impressed. I liked the combat system and I love the D&D ruleset - but the mediocre graphics engine and the fact it's an Eberron game totally turned me off. Not to mention it suffered from new-MMO-itis. Like any new MMO it had plenty of wrinkles major and minor that demanded to be ironed out.

OK, so in the interim I have going on with my life and last year decided to get LOTRO at it's release largely due to all the praise it was receiving. Because of my experience with DDO I probably wouldn't have rushed into that one without it's glowing reception into the MMO multiverse.

So to make a long story short, LOTRO deserved it's high praise and continues to earn it to this day, which has caused my opinion of Turbine to go up quite a bit. So I've been on a D&D (mainly NWN) jones the past month and I decided to give DDO another shot.

My general opinion of DDO has been negative (I keep up in the news, so reading about the release of the auction house - how long after release? Like a year and a half? - stuff like this caused my general negative opinion). Also it seemed like there were quite a few, how-to-put, socially-challenged players. I mean there seemed to be a concentration of assholes, even for an MMO.

OK, rambling again ... Based on the esteem Turbine has earned from me with LOTRO, I decided to give DDO another shot rather than just re-install NWN1 or go through Baldur's Gate 2 for the n+1th time. And I was totally NOT DISAPPOINTED!

Good job Turbine! The game has been fleshed out very nicely. Even though I still find the graphics engine mediocre, the rig I now use can handle it at it's higher settings. Still a bit of stutter, but not as bad as LOTRO. And I am smarter also about my graphic settings now, so that helps.

My personal selling point was expansion of solo content. I just love soloing dungeons, what can I say? That makes it even more fun when I pick up one or two other people to explore with. Plus, I think I see soloing evolving as a meta-game within DDO which gets me even more stoked over it.

SO that was a long ramble. If you like D&D and are not a rule-Nazi (i.e. you won't be upset that it is not a 110% copy of PnP) you will like this game. Even Eberron has even been slowly finding a little space in my heart (but only a TINY one dammit - lol).

My suggestion is to do a lot of research on optimal builds first, even if you aren't the powergaming-type. Just reading through the forums on that topic will allow you to make better informed decisions when you create your character.

Also, to address an earlier-mentioned dislike of DDO I had, I re-established myself on Sarlona and have found a very low jerk-quotient. I don't know if that's because Sarlona is just a good server, most of them left the game or they just mellowed out. Or maybe I was just online at the wrong time during the game opening and got an unjustified bad impression.