I just started playing with a couple of my friends. 

First group quest starts at level 9 on Isle of Dawn. With the new flock of players a lot of people are partying from level 9. And basically ever 5-10 level will be a new dungeon.

As for what is popular, I would say any healer class or bard would be extremely popular and wanted in a group.

If you have any other questions just shoot me a pm on here. :D 

(don't know a lot about the game but I am mainly playing for dungeon/raid with my friends so I can help out or look it up for you if needed.)

Rift sounds like the best bet for you for right now if you are looking to stick to it for a long period.

If you are just looking for a game to fill the time while waiting for other games and don't mind paying I would suggest Age of Conan or Vanguard Saga of Heroes. 

Both of these games have great dungeon gameplay. 

Vanguard shines more on the PvE/Crafting Aspect

Age of Conan shines on the PvP and Raiding aspect. 

Currently both are f2p games with premium membership which is needed to unlock everything. 

good luck with whichever games you decide to go with :D

-ozerinx

-Jagarid

The numbers from blizzard are the 10% that has cleared the hardest content. Not the players that have done any raiding at all. That is super faulty statistics. If you don't believe me start a new thread in general and ask how many people have had raiding experience. 

I have watched most of those videos like I said I actually played the beta but, if they are going with that faulty 10% crap they are really going to be missing out. 

You are right now telling me that everyone in the game is going to be equal because content is made for casual players. Which you guys believe is 90% of the population. 

I am not going to lie that I believe a lot of people are going to play GW2 but from talking to multiple guilds/random people out of 300 people that I know are playing, 250 of them are playing it for the PvP content which I guess then raiding is irrelevant. Thumbs up to those people but for me personally I love PvE, Crafting, Housing, etc so I am a sucker for sandbox games. So taking Raiding out of a game completely to me is like saying there is one less thing for me to do PvE wise. 

-ozerinx

Originally posted by Jagarid

Originally posted by ozerinx

Just like in reality. Would you want everyone to have the same equal standing even though you work twice as many hours as the other guy doing the same job? This equality crap to me makes no sense because if that is true why not go give half of what you own to some random homeless near you? 

The problem with this statement is that raiding in most MMOs is not technically "harder" for the individuals.  Most individuals just have to memorize a few little details about the fight and how they need to react to those details.   It's scripted mechanics for each encounter and a whole lot of people who raid just go online and watch videos of someone else doing it to memorize the script.

Raiding is only technically "harder" in two ways:

1. If you are one of the first groups doing it and you have to learn the fight and figure it out for yourselves.   

2. You have to organize and get a large group of people to coordinate, which is difficult for the ones RUNNING the raid (not those who are just participating)

Now, I agree, if you are in the #1 scenerio above, raiding is incredible.  It is exhilirating and it is a ton of fun.  And imo, that is the only reward or incentive you actually need.  It certainly is the only incentive I ever needed to do it.

For the #2 scenerio, even if I choose to buy into the fact that the people working harder deserve to be rewarded better...then only raid leaders and sub-leaders deserve any special rewards.

Either way you cut it, let's be honest about it and acknowledge that for the average raider, raiding is not harder to do.  It might be harder to get into in the first place, but the actual beating of the content is nothing but rote memorization of cues and the appropriate reaction to them.  When I was raiding in MMOs where I was not in guilds that were doing raid content before guides and videos showed up online it was some of the most boring content in those games because of this.

Uhm.. I don't know what game you have been raiding in but, for example, in EQ2 there are dungeons that was only doable by one guild in the whole world. The videos were out for a long ass time but no one can do it until they started buffing people on a monthly basis/or nerfing the dungeon. 

Also, I still don't see how my statement is wrong you just made my statement stronger. If you are arguing that it is the same exact work just more time spent; then why should the person A doing the same Job as person B be getting paid more for doing more hours? You know how lazy the working people would become because they will just follow the laziest person in their department because they will not be rewarded for putting in more time. Now, think about it in a game if that was the case why log on and spent countless hours because I can get the exact same shit in 1 week of playing? 

As for being the first to clear etc means nothing because as a player even though someone else did it and you watched their video to do it; doesn't mean you will get the same experience. 

Now as for raid-leader/sub-leader getting the reward will only cause even more elitist bs and more people to rage/qq about the game. 

I agree that games get repetitive after a while if they don't come out with new raid contents. Which is why I quit most games because after getting full progression clear "raid wise" I usually have nothing else to do. In ff11 and eq1 took me the longest to complete but I enjoyed every minute of it because like you mention it is a very special experience. 

Games strive on the fact that people are greedy and competitive in nature. League of Legend for example is an MMORTS that is making $$$$$ from a F2P model is the perfect example. Why do people play countless hours to try to get their ranking up, or bother competeing on a international level? In their case you get paid by sponsors etc. But, in MMORPG you can get sponsorerd too if you clear contents first etc. 

Sorry about spelling/typo too tired

-ozerinx

Originally posted by Jagarid

Originally posted by Rayshe
Thats basically why i said what i said. While the combat is different, the dodge mechanic is still in there so being laggy means your a dead man. When a company has a good idea another company using it isnt a bad thing. I dont think TSW will ever do anything bigger than a 10man, if it even does that. GW2 should look at it the same way. find a way that the top players and guilds can do these "raids" for lack of a better term with a higher difficulty. perhaps make Normal Elite and Nightmare Servers (TSW difficulty terms) for those players and allow free transfers. or even higher difficulty instances. that way you have the same freedom however the players that get bored of the fight can go make it harder.

The flaw with your theory (highlighted above) is that those "raiders" who are reacting negatively right now will still complain, UNLESS they also get "the best" gear, statistically, for that harder content, with no other way to get that same gear. It goes against ANet's manifesto to give them that "better gear".   

This argument is not just about what content is in the game, it is about the reward for that content.  In fact, it's more about the reward than the content for those raiders arguing here.  Just go back and read their posts to see how it always comes back to that.

I've raided in all of the previous MMOs I have played and the raiders reacting negatively here actually represent a very small subset of even the raiding community as a whole.  They are the ones that absolutely must have the best possible gear rather than partaking in the raiding for the experience and challenge.   They do not even represent the entire raiding portion of the MMO community, which as has been said before is already a small subset.   

Put in simple terms, there is really no way for GW2 to accomodate them without tossing out their own design manifesto.   And I don't really see why anyone would want there to be a way to accomodate them...there are already plenty of other MMOs they can play to satisfy their needs.

I can't really agree with what you are saying because what is the point of spending more time raiding for just an experience? So what the 5 man dungeon drops the same as a 20m? It goes back to the point there are no gamers that don't want their characters to be superior to someone else. The amount of people the play the games casually, and I mean they don't give a damn and rarely socialize with anyone else. Just logs on lfg clear a dungeon for a few hours and just logs off. 

If you argue that, what I am saying is bias then are you telling me that you don't care about the gears when you raid? You personally passed on every gear when you raided in the past? You didn't enjoy it when you won a piece of epic gear that took 1 month of camping? 

I am bias in the sense that I experience where true hardcore/dedicated player come from. I understand their side of the story because my first MMO was EQ1, and back then when open world bosses had 1 week/1 month timers guess what you are on call 24/7 and checking around the clock to see if the mob is up. Now with this new system are you telling me that the people that are camping around the clock does not deserve something more? 

Also, I don't know about you but, if i was the developers/marketing person behind GW2, I would totally put it in because the 10% of the population which I don't get how people are pulling that number are usually the people that are most likely to spend money on F2P because like I said earlier they "strive to be better". It doesn't mean their elitists.

Calling people that are elitists becasue they spend more time and effort than you on a game to be better at it is like calling people that work 40 hours a week elitist. 

-ozerinx

I am still up in the air with this mmo and this is my two cents.

After doing the betas and played almost every other game to end game/raid/pve/housing/crafting/etc I have found out what keeps the player around is not the "game" it is 99% the community. 

Community though comes in many shapes and form. 

High population community - aka WoW, even though you hate 99% of the players you still play it because one your friend plays it, two you like "the pvp ranking/pve progression" /flex e-peen

Low Population - Vanguard,EQ1 - most are tight nit families or friends for over 10 years. They play the game casually or hardcore but as way to keep in touch and relax.

FOTM - was Tera and now this month will be GW2. Look at the dip in population in Tera only after a few months. These type of community consist a large portion of game hoppers which is why probably this forum started. FOTM community are always over hyped and cannot keep their opinions to themselves. 

I love how everyone here says end game raiding caters to the elitist and it is just repetitve crap. Well how is BG or WvW pvp not repetitve? Or going Rifts, etc. 

Raiding will ALWAYS be important in a game due to the fact that people want to be able to accomplish things that other people can't.

Just like in reality. Would you want everyone to have the same equal standing even though you work twice as many hours as the other guy doing the same job? This equality crap to me makes no sense because if that is true why not go give half of what you own to some random homeless near you? 

I agree to whoever said that innovation and progress in gaming world is good because it brings new flavors and choices to the gamers. Not everyone might like the game but there will still be people playing it. Instead of being a fanboy for GW2 or WoW or any other game just keep an open mind and give it a try. 

Personally, I love raiding because that is the only time that all of my friends can play together in a game. I usually play with 10 or more people and other than raids in end game contents for games we can never party as 10 or more. Yeah you can argue in Rift you can go do rifts and shit or World bosses, but to us that doesn't feel as close. In those type of events its usually /afk -autoattack. So for the people that are so hyped for the World Content don't be because those type of evnets are going to end up like Tera's Nexus for those that have personally experienced it will know how crappy that system is.

Oh and allt he fanboys about GW2 redid this redid that... not really GW1 was very similar mechanic just on larger scale... And a lot of the concepts/design/mechanic according to an interview i watched from a developer were (responses, critics for other games) that the changes they have made was to cater those responses but if you think about it. Most of the people that are responding to those things are the same fanboys starting threads on here about WoW is the best, GW2 is the coolest new thing ever. 

Overall, I enjoyed and respect the gameplay of GW2 but I am not yet a true believer. I will probably wait until christmas myself to buy it because i don't believe it will last the trial of time for PvE. As for PvP as long as they constantly spice up arenas, in tier pvp gear etc that will be like a new mini meta game that people will be willing to log on for. 

-ozerinx

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

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Originally posted by Kilsin

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Originally posted by Drakaden

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Originally posted by brash99
Apparently it is back to green gear only for f2p. Such a shame.

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This reason is exactly why i won't be playing their product anymore.

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You guys can't expect everything for free...seriously.

 

It's a 5.8 yr old MMO that has always been subscription based, it is now allowing you to play all the way to the level cap of 55 for absolutely free. In 6 races and 6 classes. All others NOT included are level 20 cap. 

Look at DDO, LOTR, AOC. 

 

Because you can't wear better gear than green, your going to complain? How cheap can you be!? A built-in gameplay disadvantage. Do they want the number of players to increase or not? Remember, most wanting to play for free did NOT pay to play. Why would they now?

I agree with disadvantge but to your rant after your statement. 

SOE does not give a damn. The game was on life-support with 1 developer for 5 years. Yes 1 DEVELOPER. 

Fork over a measly $15 a month and its all unlocked...access 24/7 for a whole month to enjoy a great game without restrictions. Not very "free", is it? Basic gameplay is gimped from the get-go. Charge me for health/mana potions. Charge me for more bag space. Charge me for XP potions. Don't gimp my character, please.  

 

SOE does not give a damn. The game was on life-support with 1 developer for 5 years. Yes 1 DEVELOPER. 

 

If you can't afford $15 or a few bucks in a cash shop to unlock gear and items that you like, you really shouldn't be playing games and should maybe find a free hobby or search for a job. In order to be competitive, I must pay. Not very free or inviting. Do they want to draw in new players or not? These new players, remember, did NOT pay the fee beforehand to play. Why would they pay now?

If you are competitive you will be willing to pay. Which competitive gamer has not paid for advantages one way or another. Better Keyboard, mice, gaming rig. You are paying to get better performance in a game. Most new players won't stay wtih the game and back to my point -

SOE does not give a damn. The game was on life-support with 1 developer for 5 years. Yes 1 DEVELOPER. 

This is the mentality that is destroying the gaming industry at the moment and it's disgusting. The players did not cry out for F2P. The company did. The ONLY reason is to breathe life into dieing servers. The major factor here is that these players did NOT pay to play recently. The company is trying to entice them (us) in. Bring their player numbers up. Gimping their characters is NOT the way to do it. There is A LOT of things they could charge extra for. And they do :) But making a player's character "less" than any other is not the way to draw more players into the fold.

Remember, if these F2P players wanted to pay to play, they would already be doing so

My friend from SoE said they have recieved over 500 subscribers for Vanguard since F2P. With half paying the 3 month membership and some the other types. Now for a game that is on life-support I am pretty sure SoE is stoke as hell. 

In terms of profitability to manpower on the game, SoE with this little stunt just made a ton of money. 

The only game that you can play with all those comment you made is probably GW2. Since as of right now they are promising TRUE F2P with no cash shop items. We will see how that goes. 

 

SOE does not give a damn. The game was on life-support with 1 developer for 5 years. Yes 1 DEVELOPER. 

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To be honest I don't get why everyone is so fed up to have to start a thread every where to bash on vanguard. If you listen to the developers and the q/a or even follow the forums. Multiple people have said "vanguard" is not a game for everyone. It caters to older generation public that is patient and is semi nostalgic for EQ1. The F2P model is just a way for SoE to milk more money for EQ next. Since the F2P announcement the Vanguard threads have been going nuts and getting tons of attention.

Yes 90% of the people might rage or complain but if you read this thread alone they have already succedded in gaining at least 10-50 customers that have paid. I myself am willing to also play if I knew people that were interested in this game but everyone seems to be waiting for the "next best thing" (GW2, neverwinter, etc) How many are going to succeed probably none. Every game has flaws and design errors that are not meant to please the public. Find something you enjoy and then enjoy it with your friends and that is the most fun you will get out of the game.

Now to adress the F2P Model. 

Minus league of legends which is not an MMORPG it is more a MMORTS. 

Every model has major restrictions.

I don't think I have played a F2P that does not require any money to complete end game content.

I have played to cap in AOC, DDO, LOTR, PWI, ALLODS, Runes of Magic. (Every one of those game were F2P but the end game is unbearable unless you paid or had a lot of time to grind daily to Turbine Points.)

ACTUAL F2P games that 99% of the population refuses to play because they are old, chibi, lack of contents, etc. 

Ragnarok Online, Eden Eternal, even Tera.

Yes tera cost money to buy the game but as long as you play 10-20 hours a week the game is pretty much F2P. I only paid for Tera for 2 months until the release of Chronoscroll and now my accoutn is paid for till June of 2013 even though I am already done with the game. Even though these games that I just listed is complete F2P but if you are willing to pay money the reward you gain is huge vs people that are playing it F2P. 

To OP and everyone that is not familar with SoE. They don't care if people plays Vanguard from day one when it was purchased so what makes you think they will now? Promise of more developers? Promise of more contents? Promise of "f2p"? 

I am going to assume OP doesn't play much F2P game. Your point 2., 3., 4., 5. is in most other F2P games one way or the other. 

I agree with whoever said that it is like buying xp potions. In a game like vanguard where "open world pvp" does not exists some lvl 20 that spend 50$ is not going to out shine you. Yeah, if you are in a dungeon grouping with this said person you are benefiting as well since he can carry you through the dungeon. 

This mechanic just benefits leveling which I find in a way bad for Vanguard since they lack "future contents" but, maybe it is a way of them telling us they are going to dish out tons of new contents in the near future? 

We don't know and for people starting threads about going to free to play minus questions please stop. 

Play the game then do a full review afterwards. 

i currently just started again on vip basis haven't purchased the new expansion. I don't play alot but I am now lvl 4 rank 18. Going 10star AA build. 

I am on Argo server name is Freecss. feel free to add me or shoot me a tell on here and i can add you. 

Thanks for all the input I believe I am going with DDO. 

If people are intersted in joining us. 

Our schedule will be around 1-2 hours a day. Weekends Maybe more.

Class - still undecided just send me PM on this site I check it daily :D. 

haha only problem with EQ2 we all played/raided in Destiny of Velious. Was in a hardcore raid guild so we did most of the grouping/dungeon contents up until then. Not going to lie it is a great game but it will be all rinse and repeat since we have liek 5 alts at cap lol. 

I personally am waiting for neverwinter nights which has no release date to try it out but before then need something to mess around on casually. :D

Originally posted by chelan

not played a lot of AoC so i cant help you there.

DDO and VG are going to have the same issues with their F2P model, you *will* end up spending money. sure you can mostly just blindly grind your way through so as to avoid using RL money, but that's just not a place i can imagine you want to go as a casual player.

aside from their F2P models they are, as you know quite different games. DDO has more open areas in some places than it does in others. mostly it ends up feeling like a lobby game. however, a group of friends dungeon delving together should have quite a bit of fun, i would think. there is some soloing in DDO as well, so it could work for you. the class optimizations are really neat. you gain feats, and points to spend so you can customize yourself a bit.

VG is going to have huge expanses of open areas, open dungeons, and plenty to both solo and group up on. however, while the character creation is itself quite customizable with so many races and classes to choose from, in the end if you're a paladin, you're a paladin, if you're a bloodmage, you're a bloodmage. no real options once you've finally finished creating. except in a couple of cases, such as shaman where you can choose one of 3 types of shaman to be, but again, that's pretty much it.

 

both are highly soloable given a player with some sense of their class and a bit of a tactician's view of things. both have good grahpics, for their age, imo.

hope this helps, if you have any more specific questions, please feel free to toss them out there.

 

Oh, so in VG theres no like talent trees, customize class stuff everyone is usually the same generic builds?

To be honest paying is not a huge concern for any of us we just really want a game where we can enjoy in the small amount of time that we are going to be playing. Not really looking for a time sink game. Looking for a game that we can hop on for 1-2 hours a day and just power through dungeons/raids bosses and move on. 

refer to original post - edited~

my bad, 

Okay I've played every MMO out there so far. Right now we are looking for something more casual maybe 1-3 hours a day. Probably not much raiding. 

Something that we can hop on n party together and have fun and solo when we are just bored. 

DDO, Vanguard Saga, Age of Conan

After browsing the forums for countless hours these games seem to offer the most fun when it comes to "grouping".

I will be playing these games with a few friends but was wondering out of these 3 which one is the most time consuming?

Also, how much money would you have to pay to be useful endgame. I heard that Vanguard right now doesn't really work because of the common gear crap. 

But, what about DDO or Age of Conan? 

Are we able to clear all contents to cap or are we limited? 

my bad, 

Okay I've played every MMO out there so far. Right now we are looking for something more casual maybe 1-3 hours a day. Probably not much raiding. 

Something that we can hop on n party together and have fun and solo when we are just bored. 

Could care less about population. I just finished all progression on TERA including KN HM, BG not out and seriously don't want to spend countless hours on games anymore. Which is why my friends and I just want something we can mess around on casually that is enjoyable. 

whats the first dungeon that is available for 6 man? I see alot of solo content dungeons on the wiki site. 

Was wondering what mmorpg games out there have 6 man parties. Minus EQ2 already tried.

Was wondering how is crafting in this game?

Are the items any good compared to drop minus raid loot?

Is it a indepth crafting system?

Also, are cities available for anyone with a guild or even people that play solo?

Was thinking of playing this game like a lan game with a few of my buddies. How is this game if played as a group versus solo? 

Most of the things i've read is about solo gameplay.

Are there a lot of contents available outside of questing? Exploring, Dungeons, raids etc?