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All Posts by Phaserlight

All Posts by Phaserlight

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Your thread title is somewhat misleading; you ask what sandbox we are playing, then in the OP ask for something similar to AA. There are plenty of sandboxes, some of which users here are playing, that are probably nothing like AA.


For example: Vendetta Online will allow you to design a character, put it through a crucible of peer review, and write it into the game.  If that's not sandbox, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Thane

soo, robert is actually the first one who got multi player ships to work?

neato :) thanks for the info

No, Vendetta Online had multiplayer ships 6 years ago:

I don't know if VO was the first, but multiplayer ships have been around for a while.  You can dock with other ships, repair, reload, or be someone's gunner.  I've even run across abandoned player capital ships drifting through empty sectors.  SC's implementation looks a bit more ambitious by actually letting you walk around through the ships' interiors, but we'll see how it goes.

Yes and yes; we're one of the oldest guilds in the game I play. Having a reputation is fun.
You should never look down on someone because of their race, creed, religion, or socioeconomic status. Value is an internal quality.

There is an entire field of law devoted to concerns of the poor. There's relatively little money in it, but many lawyers choose to do pro bono work in it because they find it to be rewarding. Regarding WIC (Women - Infants - Children), food stamps (EBT), perpetuating the condition of the poor: that has been largely debunked (Brodie, Stanford University, 2014). That's not to say it doesn't get abused, but to say that the poor are responsible for being poor because they are "lazy" or should be doing better things with their time is not only heartless, but untrue.

It's more an issue of social connectivity. There is currently "profound segregation" (Brodie) among America's different classes.

As far as games go, they will be created among all people regardless. I see it as an axiom: people play games. What shape or form they take can be different depending on society. There was an article in the Economist at least a year ago about how some rural eastern cultures such as Pakistan or northern India were partly skipping the process of industrialization and moving straight into a service economy. It had a picture of a shepherd on a hillside surfing the web on a tablet.

I can't help but wonder if there isn't a similar process at work here.
Originally posted by Stormfire962


Since so many are determined to prove I am wrong why don't you refer them to these videos on YouTube which will tell them more about how the game is going since they are posted weekly on YouTube and their website.  Unless you all are afraid that  they might learn the actual truth you all are trying to hide from them.

Please spare me the hand-wavium in action.  "The actual truth" is that this game was initially promised out in November 2014, 6 months ago...

"The actual truth" is not at all what I'm "afraid" of learning from the Around the 'Verse webcast (do you really believe the things you are typing?*).  That strikes me as a convenient party line, though.

My relationship to this project can be succinctly caricatured by the following:

Enough said.

*P.S. the cult hotline is 212/632-4640.

Originally posted by Shodanas
Originally posted by Ballsout
I laugh so hard whenever I hear anything about his game. They are taking such advantage of mmo crowd it is ridiculous. This game is going to go down as the biggest money suck ever. 

You don't have to hear anything, you can see it with your eyes. All you have to do is make a seconds long search on youtube and you'll be flooded with alpha version game play videos regarding almost every aspect of the game, [...]


And yet... What does Chris Roberts have to show for it? (put down the kool-aid: are you saying Arena Commander is the Alpha version of Star Citizen? I always thought it was "simulator" mini-game: something to keep the fans occupied while the real game is being worked on.)

It's a bit of an impossible situation to me; one of those things I'll probably never fully understand.

A couple other things in this thread I wanted to respond to:

Something that seems to have gone largely unaddressed is what brought the OP here to begin with: someone showing up in his stream chat advertising the campaign. I can imagine this would be incredibly distracting and annoying - doubly so for a game that's not even out yet. I've had similar things happen, where evangelists show up in places not affiliated with this project and begin saying things like "man, I can't wait for Star Citizen!". I pretty much just ignore them, as it's important for me to recognize my own bias against this project in its current state. However, I would be interested in learning more about the incident the OP mentions: a link to the stream if it was recorded, perhaps.

Second, there was a flash game mentioned in this thread, which Erillion wrote was no closer to AC than Galaga. I don't think that's really fair; Galaga is a 2d top scrolling shooter. The flash game linked to is a 3d wireframe space arena with upgradable guns and collectable missiles that also has some contemporary tropes associated with it (the splash tips, etc.)

Arena Commander is more or less a 3d multiplayer space arena shooter. That really is what fans have dropped 80 million on so far, unless you count the Murray Cup.

Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Vorthanion
I blame it on the F2P era, where games are designed first to be money traps with some if any fun tacked on and MMORPGs being turned into shallow arcade games.

While I wouldn't lay all the blame at F2P's feet, its 'contributions' to the genre are certainly a mixed bag.

Agree but its cash shops not F2P, you can start a game as P2P or B2P it is what happens once a cash shop is introduced that breaks gameplay ethos.


That's a pretty bizarre statement. Unless the F2P game is making money off ads or other sponsor revenue, 'cash shop' and F2P is one in the same.

Cash shops are the issue, F2P is a subset of that issue. We often think of it the other way round because FTP brought cash shops to the MMO genre. The pervasiveness of cash shops has now gone far beyond F2P, but Cash shops are more essential part of the F2P equation than other financial models. Certainly agree there.

Are you saying you prefer in-game advertising? I am interested in what you suggest as an alternate revenue model.

I would not mind in game advertising, it does not break gaming ethos. You open up your bank and there are adds, would not break my immersion. But if the history of MMOs shows you anything it shows that they want money every which way. So adverts would never replace cash shops, and just be annoying because the players have to put up with both.

I would not be surprised if that's what they want to try out next, if not that something else, as I have said so many times before the changes will not end at game breaking cash shops.

Did you just refer to online banking as an example of an immersive experience?

Unless you're Case from Neuromancer, I don't think that's what it means.

Well, if you would rather wait a year for a total wild card than play a great game available now, not much I can do about that.
Originally posted by jimmy123

Hi everyone, well the title say's it all.

I'm asking for some advice on playing a decent mmorpg.

Waiting for Division, Blade & Soul looks interesting maybe give Everquest ago, but for now I feel like there's no think grabbing my attention.

Currently playing Elite Dangerous and a bit of Killing Floor 2 and CS.

Thinking about going back to GW2.

Vendetta Online


Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by Phaserlight
I still take exception to the phrase "mobile games" - it implies somehow a different set of standards. Games are games, period. Just because a majority of developers have gotten away with certain things on a new platform up into this point does not mean that that is the be-all end-all for an entire use-case scenario "from here on in".

As with many new, disruptive technologies, people will misuse it. Plenty of people are really terrible at leading balanced lives. It doesn't mean the technology is to blame, particularly when it's something as ubiquitous as cell phone technology.

I'd like everyone in this thread to try Vendetta Online, for at least six hours, and then bash mobile as a potential gaming platform with authority (spoiler alert: you won't be able to do it).

There are vastly different standards.

Storage space firstly. Discs - yes, even multiples allowed on my 3 foot desktop. 

Battery life secondly. I have a plug, it goes into a wall. I don't move. The computer doesn't move. We take all the power we need for eternity. We don't encounter battery life. We stay plugged in and use hundreds of watts whenever we want.

Screen size thirdly. Planning on carrying around my 24 inch widescreen monitor are you. If you don't have it, don't pretend you do - mobiles are getting bigger but they are still no match for monitors and they squish the pixel density down trying to fit smaller font sizes on the screen. Your eyes haven't got worse, mobile is shrinking on you each iteration in the name of density or PPI. There is nothing standard about the PPI on mobile devices versus a standard monitor. It's the wild west out there. They all do what they want and can neither agree on a standard size for devices nor a standard resolution.

Computing power very often. People don't buy computers for thousands of dollars to use their mobile device instead. The two just aren't equal.

Every desktop has a mouse and a physical keyboard if they are going to function using a GUI. All mobile devices aren't guaranteed either and virtual keyboards cover part of the screen itself.

Do you even want to bring up multi-tasking on mobile versus not?

You don't code exactly the same for them and in mobile you are often in their sandbox, as an app or not. Unlike the full control you have in a bigger sandbox on a traditional operating system as a stand-alone program. 

Use common sense, you shrink something down and it isn't going to get better or even be identical. It will become more challenged in many ways unless you think people put bigger hardware in full sized computers for no reason. I shouldn't have to talk about what shrinks when the device does, you should be able to figure that out.

A game is a game is a game, yeah, to a user.

Right.  I wasn't trying to equate a cell phone with a 24" all-in-one desktop or what have you.  Rather, I was responding to the OP's liberal license of the term "mobile games"; standards as in User eXperience:

As the OP himself points out, you wouldn't accept a game on PC spamming immersion-breaking advertisements, so why put up with it on mobile?  That's what I mean by standards.

Nowhere did I claim the technology was identical, merely that it was converging.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if cell phones disappeared completely in the next 20-30 years, to be replaced with... something different that serves the same function.

If you look at the OP's first couple posts in this thread, you'll find the entire premise of his argument is based around some extremely broad presumptions with regards to mobile UX, which is not necessarily the case as I've taken pains to point out.  Since he's "downloaded a few" games on mobile and decided he's seen it all, it's probably not a point worth driving further.

Nowhere did I write that playing a game on mobile was the same thing as playing a game on PC.


I still take exception to the phrase "mobile games" - it implies somehow a different set of standards. Games are games, period. Just because a majority of developers have gotten away with certain things on a new platform up into this point does not mean that that is the be-all end-all for an entire use-case scenario "from here on in".

As with many new, disruptive technologies, people will misuse it. Plenty of people are really terrible at leading balanced lives. It doesn't mean the technology is to blame, particularly when it's something as ubiquitous as cell phone technology.

I'd like everyone in this thread to try Vendetta Online, for at least six hours, and then bash mobile as a potential gaming platform with authority (spoiler alert: you won't be able to do it).
Originally posted by kenpokiller

The future for blatant cash grabs & the Japanese market.



I like how you've glibly adjoined an entire country to "blatant cash grabs" (BCGs) with one ampersand. Actually, I don't like that at all.

It also doesn't put much faith in humankind to expect us not to be able to tell a spade for a spade, and consequently to live in a world deteriorated by BCGs.

Look at some old advertisements; isn't it funny how some aspects are such obvious fabrications without the lens of the contemporary zeitgeist?

My point is that we have at least some agency in forming the future we choose to live in, and BCGs do not necessarily (/s) fall within the domain of lasting virtue vis-à-vis truth, goodness, and beauty.

Yes, it's important to consider games with respect to these characteristics.

"I'm afraid of the brain drain onto mobile devices"

No such problem exists from my perspective. See my linked-to example. You are making too many assumptions before considering the possibility of something existing that falls outside your view of what defines a "mobile game". Undoubtedly, this may be true in some cases, but just because Pong was released in 1972 that didn't prevent the renaissance of 1980. May I gently suggest that PEBKAC.

"Are mobile games the future?"

Your thread title includes the presumption that mobile games must somehow be different than other genres.  You could have as easily asked "Is mobile the future?", which would have been a more interesting discussion.

There is currently a technological convergence taking place in computing space, with phones, tablets, and PCs all trending toward similar functions.  You also (somewhat hilariously) make the presumption that the best developers aren't coding for mobile right now, calling this "worrying" because they might all decide that they are "supporting the wrong platforms".

In short, your premise is flawed.

Instead, try thinking about what mobile phones, tablets, and PCs are all able to do right now, and consider what this might lead to in 5 to 10 years.  I am currently able to play my favorite game on mobile from anywhere, and later log in from a PC and pick up right where I left off.  I have been able to do this for the last 3 years.  That game is not Candy Crush or Clash of Clans.

Vendetta Online - some new cap ship station components have been added to some of the capitols, to facilitate player-owned cap ship gameplay. They are quite large - the station I purviewed had doubled in size. PvP still gets my heart pounding, even after 11 years. My IHD power cell business is starting to take off - I think I've found a price that moves while providing a reasonable margin.

Dwarf Fortress - I decided to take my own advice and dive back in after a year-long hiatus. The complexity of this game is stunning - thank God for wikis. My dorfs have a starter colony going beneath a red sand hill, decent climate, lots of cherry trees nearby, a couple cats follow them everywhere. One of the cats must have killed a hamster, because I spotted one of the dwarves carrying its remains all the way across the grove to bury it in the outdoor refuse pile. Have discovered some bloodstone deposits in the shale beneath the foundations. Next up will be hollowing out a dormitory with some proper beds - don't want my dwarves getting depressed sleeping on the sandy floor.
Originally posted by poorben
How do you feel play mmo on mobile devices?

I've been playing a MMORPG on mobile for 3 years, the same one I've been playing on PC for 11 years; it's cross platform.

I think it's great; being able to login from literally anywhere and have the same experience as thousands of others across the globe, on PC and otherwise, is astounding.

One of my professors once said "the future is mobile".  I think the aforementioned is just one example of such.

The game becomes very meta and has a porous relationship with reality. For example, one week my car broke down and I had to ride the bus to work; it was a two hour ride each way.  During this time I was able to harvest a significant amount of materials for a construction project which I had access to later on, when I logged in from a PC.

There have been countless other instances when I've been waiting for an appointment and found that I had time to log in just to transport a smaller quantity of materials from one station to the next, or to catch up on the general vibe of the verse.

I've also found that playing in bed while falling asleep can be a very relaxing experience.

The fact that it's device agnostic and universally accessible is crucial because I also enjoy playing from a Mac or a laptop PC.

Unfortunately, these specs rule me out from day one, especially with no Mac support. I am a little disappointed, but hopeful. Dropping a thou on a new windows tower just isn't in the cards right now. I will look forward to reading reports from other VRnauts!

Mobile VR is looking like it might be an even better option for me.

Also FYI, Vendetta does have Rift support right now.
Originally posted by Gallbindus

Before you plug in your flamers let me preamble and say that SC is like a god to me.  I happily sacrifice consistently and fruitfully at its alter ... blessed be its name ... however.


I can only believe in a god for so long without demonstrable things like burning bushes and such before I get a little jaded ...


How long until me and my homies are cruising the outer reaches space cowboys style ... for reals ...

I think you just answered your own question.

Originally posted by sludgebeard

Its sad I know, and yes I know: Its Me. 


Im not denying that I have been spoiled by the greats, PRE-CU SWG, Vanilla WoW, City of Heroes, hell even original Age of Conan was different enough.


Now there's nothing for me, the only MMO's I haven played that are on the top list are Secret World (Never like the look of the combat) and FFXIV (saw a friend play the starting quests and just seemed to boring and slow).


But I love MMO's! I just want a game where I can jump in as a Dwarf, go find a mine, and start mining, or maybe just join a group and fight so mobs.


Im a simple man, but all the MMO's right now are just solo grind fests, or they just dont have enough depth for me.


Is there any hope for a guy like me MMORPG? Anyone else out there in the "No-MMO's Club"?


Maybe MMORPGs just aren't your thing...

Serious question, have you ever considered Dwarf Fortress?

Playing it may help you appreciate subtler aspects that are in play in many extant MMOs, including that 800 lb gorilla in the room, WoW.

DF to an MMO player like myself is like psychotropic medicine, and I offer this game as a sincere suggestion to shake things up a bit.  At the beginning of the game, it generates a year by year history of the world including important figures, cultures, events, and creates landforms by simulating fluvial erosion and orogeny.  It's the closest thing I've seen mechanics-wise to the terrain engine Neal Stephenson describes in his book Reamde, with an added layer of of simulated history on top of everything.

If you can forget about the "graphics", just jack in and let your imagination do the rest, you may have a real experience.

"You are not trying to learn Brazilian Jujitsu or something here"

In the game I play, finding one's feet in combat is very similar to learning a martial art. It is intuitive, rewards unrehearsed* reaction, and takes years to master. It follows simple Newtonian mechanics.

I've found just as much depth in dancing with an opponent in that game as in sparring with a partner in boxing, practicing randori in Jujutsu, or playing inside a roda while feeling the whoosh of an opponent's meia lua inches from one's face.

I grew up in Japan, practiced Karate from age 8, studied other martial arts in my 20s, and turned to a more peaceful life in my 30s.

Lovingly, there is just as much depth and skill required in Vendetta as in those arts.

*I'm using 'rehearsed' in a different way than 'practiced' here.  Of course, the core of martial arts is practice.  Intuitive knowledge carries through spontaneous action better than a scholarly lesson does.  The whole purpose of practicing Kata isn't so that one uses those very same sequences of moves in a fight, but to arrive at an intuitive knowledge of what moves to use in any given spontaneous situation.  The same sort of intuitive knowledge is required in a Vendetta furball; it's like thinking with your center of gravity.

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