I dont think there is ONE reason why LOTRO failed (is not as popular as it should be with that license).

Most people who left it will probably say "it got boring, dont really know why". And that is the closest answer you can get.

For me it was:

- Lack of epic feeling, i was herded through a mainstream theme park with middle earth graphics wrapped over it like hundreds of others, gaining the identical rewards for my almost identical looking toon. There was no feel of a plot going on in middle earth - it felt like a single player game where u are rewarded with some cut-scenes when you klicked the right buttons at the right time.

- 100% linearity of the carreers and stories, no player made choices to influence anything.

- no complex skill tree that got me into it.

I agree that the landscape graphics are nice, while i never really liked the animations. The running animations, combat animations, crafting animations all sucked and looked clumsy and unfinished.

In the end my guild moved on to Eve and Ryzom where we have a thing that we could not find in LOTRO: F U N. Main difference being that Ryzom and Eve are are worlds, where we can almost do what we want and not a boring theme park where we have to follow railed carreers.

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah LotRO is solid though nothing worth talking about really. I've been starting to get a little bored with it now that I got into the 30s but I agree that it deserves to be in the top 3.

As people have said it doesn't generate the hate that WoW has because it's not a trendy fad... but it's also has done everything rather nicely... without giving people much to complain about. All you can really say is that you don't ilke the art style or find the game boring *shrug* 

 

you are the perfect example for thousends of others. When did you start? 6-7 weeks ago? And already bored...

LOTRO is another wasted license. Nothing more.

Originally posted by arrgy

End game is pretty simple...

 

Roll an ALT.

true for most other MMO's not so for LOTRO - unless you love reading the same book twice or watch the same movie twice.

But End game in LOTRO is pretty simple...

wait for an expansion.

or

play another game.

alright the luclin bazaar was in EQ before WoW - so what?

The two concepts are different anyway, the EQ bazaar still gives you a feel of immersion (some find it tedious) because it demands you to be online to sell stuff and not explore the world at the same time and it demands you to travel to the seller and buy it from his "shop". I call it content - this is game content everyone asks for "something else to do but hack & slash through repetitive quests" In WoW and almost everything that came after WoW it is standing shoulder to shoulder in front of an AH NPC and browsing ebay-like lists. The WoW and LOTRO AH work in games like eve, because there they do not break the immersion and lore. Or the ryzom solution as a compromise - but to be honest i still like the EQ bazaar the most, and the EQ bazaar before luclin in the EC tunnel (player run) was the best of all. I dont know how many friendships i knitted there when auctioning for crafting components like pelts or ore - in lotro i dont remember one single person i bought ore from, it was lotro-ebay. copy-pasted from WoW-ebay. A cloned concept, miles away from the EQ bazaar and lightyears away from the EQ bazaar pre-luclin.

Originally posted by gakule

First time poster, long time reader...

 

Why do people insist on referring to everything as a WoW clone? Because video games have, generally, the same elements?

Would you call football, hockey, soccer, and any other team-oriented sport a baseball clone because they have two opposing teams, use a scoring system, and use some type of object as the focal point of the game? No, you wouldn't.

Would you call China, or any other country that is becoming a first world country, an USA clone? Just because the USA was first world first? No, you wouldn't.

Saying that any game is a WoW clone is being just plain ignorant, because WoW wasn't there before everything else. WoW is simply the flavor of the month (although it's been that way for the past 5 years). Before WoW came Everquest. Let's see what Everquest and WoW have in common (all of which Everquest had first):

Raids

Mounts

Buffs

Equipment with static stat value's

The ability to add enhancements to items

Crafting

Auto attack combat

Auction house? (Though, Everquest does not have one, they have a bazaar, which is the same concept, except the person selling must be online to sell the item)

Guilds

PvP combat

Right click dead corpse to loot

Skill ups from using your weapon in combat

-----

The list goes on and on. The bottom line is, look at everything that was there before WoW. WoW really had nothing new and innovative. It had cartoony graphics, more linear play, and curb appeal for the kids with low attention spans and insufficient intelligence to take on the learning curve.

Now, lets explore this a little more. Where were all of the things found in ANY MMO today originally inspired from? Everquest surely wasn't the first to come up with the idea of making such a game (If you set aside using graphics, and an internet connection to make playing with people world-wide possible).

Dungeons and Dragons. Had every game mechanic that MMO's use (stats, rolls (though, you do not roll a dice in the MMO, but a RNG does so for you), weapons, armor, etc etc)

Does this make every MMO with a fantasy concept a D&D clone? No.

Every idea today borrows idea's off of something else. Movie's, music, clothing style's, tv shows, even games! What in MMO's can really be new without destroying their chances for a player base? What idea can be used in a new MMO, that won't be implemented into another MMO that already exists? If a game has something in it before WoW, but WoW decides to put a similar feature into their game... how many people would say that the game which originally had the idea was just copying off of WoW? Most likely all the ignorant fan boys who have no clue about life and anything in it.

In short; calling any game a WoW clone is just showing that you lack the knowledge of where everything really came from. Start looking at games for what they are, not what else they may seem like.

 

Why waste your first post for something that has been repeated 200 times within this thread but still isnt  the full truth?

You almost understood it - but only almost.

WoW did many things new, the main thing being they added game content refreshingly fast and for the casual player (or as you call em: the idiots with short attention spans) Take pvp battlefields for example. It was also not just the cartoony graphics, WoW did in fact take itself so serious. At the time WoW came out the old games felt too serious to many players. It got forgotten that its games - WoW brought that spirit back. It was the first fantasy MMO with shotguns and there was a HUGE discussion on the EQ forums all over why EQ did not have that for gnomes with their tinkering. It was the first game where you could solo almost every class to max level and not needing 3 years for it. EQ always forced to group it is the concept of EQ teamplay. The EQ bazaar was invented after WoW and i saw it as a bitter compromise - it was alot more fun before some idiot invented auction houses for hzthjthjMMO's At the time WoW came out these where massive changes and NEW things compared to the EQ / DAoC settings. If you forgot that and only look at dry game mechnics now, it is you that shows you have no clue.

This in mind, LOTRO is far closer to WoW than it will ever be to EQ - as you almost understood it for yourself, WoW was far more and i quote you: "linear" than EQ. LOTRO is even more linear than WoW - so in fact it is further away from EQ and older titles than WoW.

And just to have it straight, WoW sucked - LOTRO sucks more. Comparing LOTRO with EQ is an insult for EQ in fact, so stick to the OP and compare it to the other rubbish game for people with short attention spans (lol i like that one)

/cheers

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Bursche

 

 Its also the reason EvE will never be the big success a fan would believe it could have, because EvE drastically gives you the feeling that you are late, you are behind, you will never catch up you are chanceless.

 

one more thing I think we can disagree on, currently playing EvE along with LoTRO, just started EvE this month. I don't feel in the least bit left behind. Perhaps you would be better off playing "easy" mode games like WoW and AoC. Or maybe ones that are really group centric so you can ride the coat tails. Ones that offer a challenge seen to frustrate you.

You can disagree all you want with me, i dont really care. To me this was just another pathetic and failed attempt to make me look stupid. I have helped dozens - if not hundreds of EvE beginners getting started - i talked to so many of them i know which concerns repeat regularly - and thats the "is it worth starting now? will i ever catch up" sort of questions.

So keep trying - maybe you get better at it one day.

PS: if i wanted to play an easy mode MMO, i'd be a LOTRO fanboy - just like you.

Originally posted by Vidir

Originally posted by mnkymn161

First off, I'd like to mention that all I've done is the 14-day trial, so I'm in no way an expert on LOTRO. I may not have played enough to be fully immersed in the game, but I felt like sharing my thoughts nonetheless.

 

As the title states, I don't think this game should have such a high rating. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it (I've been a Tolkien fan ever since I learned to read, and felt that the game perfectly complemented the books and movies); however, I don't think LOTRO is anything special. I could spend all day listing the similarities it has with WoW, but that would get boring, and most of you probably noticed them anyway. Mostly, though, I just thought LOTRO quickly got boring. The graphics are great; they're what drew me in initially. But for anyone who has ever played WoW, or any of its seemingly infinite clones, everything about this game will seem very redundant. In my 14 days of playing, I found absolutely nothing new or innovative. There was definitely nothing worth another $15 a month.

So, does anyone out there agree with me? Feel free to share your thoughts.

 

I agree with you about lotro is boring and so is wow but that does not make lotro a wow clone. All boring games are not wow clones,and since wow did copy it's content from other games then no game is a wow clone.

I also agree with both games being boring fast.
 

but what do we have then?

a boring game with a successful game background, warcraft strategy games appealing 11.5 Million players and another boring game with THE MOST APPEALING FANTASY LICENSE AVAILABLE ON THE PLANET appealing far less than a million players.

So why is that?

Brilliant Marketing of Blizzard vs lousy marketing of Turbine? That shall make a difference of 3000%? nope

A glitch in the Matrix?

No, the reason is: the OP is right - its a clone. Not directly a WoW maybe but an MMO clone, nothing new - nothing that would cause anyone currently in an MMO community and happy there to leave it just for the new game experience.

When WoW came out it was the first:

The first game easy enough to progress even when playing it casual, you never felt left behind in WoW like you did in EQ DAoC or other early titles. Its also the reason EvE will never be the big success a fan would believe it could have, because EvE drastically gives you the feeling that you are late, you are behind, you will never catch up you are chanceless.

From this point of view LOTRO is similar to WoW, but 6 years late.

WoW's huge success has alot to do with being the first game of its time that was casual friendly, that made it special and brought back lots of players who tried and liked EQ, DAoC but never had the time to invest. Now we have dozens of casual friendly games LOTRO being just another one of them.

Originally posted by Yamota

Zorndorf, you are spot on. 200k subscribers for the biggest fantase lore EVER is just plain pathetic. It just shows what a crappy company Turbine are. Didn't they screw up another huge IP, D&D?

I mean Lord of the Rings realised as a themepark PvE game? Pathetic...

100% agree with this. Nothing but a disappointing clone put in nice graphics. The lore isnt even transported very well into the game in my opinion. Shame it is still 200k people who support this crap with their hard earned money and in worst case it will cause more MMO theme parks to open.

Originally posted by Professor78

Originally posted by Yeebo

Originally posted by Bursche

Hi again Professor, and thanks much for the laugh, as i said THIN lol.

This pretty much proves the point the part of my post that you chose to ignore.  The prose in the quests that he linked is far more evocative than is the norm among main stream MMOs. They read like something from a professional writer, rather than the amateurish crap we usually get in MMOs.  I also listed examples from a half dozen other MMOs of what I consider to be "good writing" to try and give you an idea of where I'm coming from on this.   But you are obviously not here to have a conversation.

The quest dialogue in LoTRO is not fine literature by any stretch, but it's sure a hell of a lot better than average. 

 

 

Well said. Obviously some people don't appreciate good writing. Which brings me back to my earlier point of the general playstyle of most - Click, click, click - run off and do....I used to be like that myself, until I realised that I was missing out a huge part of the game - and the most immersive.

Dont worry, i apreciate good writing  - when i see it. 

Dont get me wrong, i like a burger from time to time but i dont run around saying mc donalds is the best restaurant. Lotro has some intresting and good quests - just like almost every other MMO on the market. Some quests in WoW made me laugh and as i like laughing that was good. 20 years back i loved playing "The lurking horror" awesome text adventure - if you like good writing. What you call "click click click - run off and do..." is encouraged in lotro and that is why it happens more in lotro than in games where you actually have to think to solve a riddle or choose from alternative answers. That is when you have to stop and think what you do, that is when you get immersed. Not by medium quality text that has no direct influence on what you do.

However it is wasted energy to explain things like that here, you only know burgers and you only want burgers, so you only get burgers.

In this spirit: Enjoy your happy meal.

Hi again Professor, and thanks much for the laugh, as i said THIN lol. You just proved me right.

DonnieBrasco - that was some really desperate troll attempt to make me look like a troll. FAILED. I saw you do so much better in the past. Oh and it is really not my fault that you lack imagination. Please stop blaming me for your handicaps.

Anyway  everybody, relax: your game is for you - just stop running around saying it has the BEST community or the BEST quests that makes you look so - umm - never mind.

If you want true arguments for your beloved game i help you out:

- Good Graphics

- Funny Music System

- OK Customer support

- Easy to handle UI.

- Solid quality in terms of bugs and balance issues.

- Best background an MMO can wish (License)

- You can play a chicken

- healthy population

- some classes fit in the lore.

- free updates between expansion packs.

- possibility to have a lifetime sub

- US and EU seperated. (is that a plus? hmm... /shrug)

- can be payed without credit card.

- runs on slow machines too (with graphics all tuned down making it pretty ugly tho)

- extremely casual and solo friendly.

- rewarding quest progress with cut scenes.

- comes in a brown box.

- is pretty cheap + 30 days free.

- 14 days free trial.

- allows some pv(m)p too.

- has horses and frequent events.

thats quite a list huh? for a game i dont care for. Just dont run around saying it has best stories in like 100 MMO's or best community.

Originally posted by Yeebo

Way to ignore the main point of my post.  Good job putting words into my mouth and slipping in a couple of insults too.

Troll much?

 

 

You call everyone discussing with you a troll when you have no arguments anymore? In fact i enjoyed using your very own discussion methods (demanding examples that you can then scissor to pieces) baiting with subtle insults and constantly trying to judge other personal opinions as wrong if they are not yours.

Now that you looked into that forum mirror i put right in front of you - and did not like what you saw.  How about some more tolerance to other opinions in the future?

Someone (i guess you) claimed lotro had the best quest stories of all MMO's (there are dozens and 5 now)  I questioned that and asked for one of those Nobel Prize in Literature worthy quest dialogues that make LOTRO quest dialogues so much superior compared to every other title out there.

I often read two positiv prejudices about lotro, one being that the community is so much more mature than in every other MMO and that the quests are so much deeper than in any other MMO.

Both are prejudices i would have expected before playing it too, of course: it has one of the most famous (and best) background settings and of course the community will be people who have read the books and love the lore. (prejudice - taken as common sense by some here)

And both are wrong prejudices. The quests put in from turbine could not be any thinner or more stupid and the community is not very different than that in many many other MMO's. In fact i found it rather full of rushers and quest grinders many have never read the books and only saw the movies.

to sum it up:

There are idiots within the LOTRO community like in any other MMO too. There are appealing quests in LOTRO too but they are not superior to good quests and lore in other titles. The mistake done here is that you judge by the products name (well done for falling for Turbine's marketing).  I repeat myself when i say take the same game, change some names and call it Asherons Call 3 for example. The community would probably be 30% of what LOTRO has but no one would run around and claim AC3 had best quests and best community.

Originally posted by Yeebo

Originally posted by Bursche

Originally posted by Professor78

To most people there are only 2 types of MMORPGs out there - The WOW Clone, and the "bound to Fail Not WOW clone"

You complain about the game being like WOW, you complain about the game not being like WOW - So its bound to fail.

 

Most people seem to have forgotten what a MMO really is - The players that are paying the game should make up most of the games essence. Stop comparing the things in the game that are put there by the developers. Its us that make the game what it is. Compare a general WOW player to a Lord of the Rings player - are they clones, chances are they are totally different.

Community - that's the word i was looking for.

Also, learn to read. I would hazard a guess that 95% of Wow players don't read anything about the quest besides, just look where it is, what it is, and do it. Take time to immerse yourself in the Lore of the game, there is none better than that in LOTRO. If you play LOTRO like you would WOW, of course it may seem the same......

 

Oh forgot to answer - why is it number 1.

The people who play the game, and the amount of effort that Turbine puts in to create the seemingly endless detail about the world.

 

Let me comment the lines i put in colors:
 

Red: So everyone who does not like Lotro and the stories told in it can't read and is stupid. Nice one.

Yellow: My impression was quiet opposite: that the LOTRO community was just the same, standing on the greenway on the RP server for 3 houers and counting like 100 players who did not take the time to interact with a greeting player because they had to rush to the old forest yadda yadda for next quest progress omg faster FAAAAAAASTERRR!!!! (on the rp server!!!)

Green: Thats another part LOTRO completely was a waste of time for me. I was going to overlook the thin gameplay and the meaningless skill system and thought ok lets take it as a game with interactive story telling. But it was horrible, the book quests where a "click-and-run-to-see-a-piece-of-a-medium-quality-cartoon-movie" (cut scenes where i am left out as a player) - 99.9999% of the quests do not allow me an alternativ route but the given one - interaction with NPC's does not happen, just "click+progress" you cant do anything wrong there.

Now honestly Dr. Dr. Dr.Professor78, print me a quest dialogue that you find so extraordinary well done in LOTRO that the line "there is none better than that in LOTRO" is not an empty sentence, like LOTRO is an empty game with good graphics. I will not hold my breath tho.

 

Red: no.  But the best part of LoTRO is the stories that amerge from quest chains.  You really have to be a patient sort of player that enjoys reading quest text, enjoys a restrained (compared to the typical fantasy MMO) setting, and that is willing to keep track of storylines that can run through dozens of quests

If thats the best part of LOTRO then good night. To be honest most quests are thinner than a piece of paper. If you had only one example you would print the quest dialogue here but you cant - simply admit it.

Yellow: if you can't see the difference between the community of WoW and the community of LoTRO, you are either playing on some abortion of a server that I've never stuck my head onto or judge the quality of a community by some pretty arbitrary metrics.  Of course given the example that you use, standing in the main thoroughfare that connects every part of one of the biggest questing zones and expecting folks to stop and roleplay with you...that may be true.  

In fact that is what i expect on a roleplaying server yes, role players - what you call the "slow type of player, the reader type of player" but in your reader type of player game even on a reader type of gamer server they had no time but to rush to the next marker on the  minimap. And here comes the surprise: In WoW they actually roleplayed - sitting in the town for houers arond campfires telling roleplay stories and interacting. Creating mini RP events and all - guess what the community is not that different at all.

Green:  what would be the point of linking a particular quest?  

*SNIPPED THE REST - was too long, and not to the point, i think you just love expressing yourself and lost contact here with the topic.*

It woudl prove that you are right and i am wrong - but you cant. Because there is none. Not even the main quest dialogue is of any literal value.

Not sure why you answer for Professor78 anyway, that you 2nd acc?

Originally posted by Professor78

To most people there are only 2 types of MMORPGs out there - The WOW Clone, and the "bound to Fail Not WOW clone"

You complain about the game being like WOW, you complain about the game not being like WOW - So its bound to fail.

 

Most people seem to have forgotten what a MMO really is - The players that are paying the game should make up most of the games essence. Stop comparing the things in the game that are put there by the developers. Its us that make the game what it is. Compare a general WOW player to a Lord of the Rings player - are they clones, chances are they are totally different.

Community - that's the word i was looking for.

Also, learn to read. I would hazard a guess that 95% of Wow players don't read anything about the quest besides, just look where it is, what it is, and do it. Take time to immerse yourself in the Lore of the game, there is none better than that in LOTRO. If you play LOTRO like you would WOW, of course it may seem the same......

 

Oh forgot to answer - why is it number 1.

The people who play the game, and the amount of effort that Turbine puts in to create the seemingly endless detail about the world.

 

Let me comment the lines i put in colors:
 

Red: So everyone who does not like Lotro and the stories told in it can't read and is stupid. Nice one.

Yellow: My impression was quiet opposite: that the LOTRO community was just the same, standing on the greenway on the RP server for 3 houers and counting like 100 players who did not take the time to interact with a greeting player because they had to rush to the old forest yadda yadda for next quest progress omg faster FAAAAAAASTERRR!!!! (on the rp server!!!)

Green: Thats another part LOTRO completely was a waste of time for me. I was going to overlook the thin gameplay and the meaningless skill system and thought ok lets take it as a game with interactive story telling. But it was horrible, the book quests where a "click-and-run-to-see-a-piece-of-a-medium-quality-cartoon-movie" (cut scenes where i am left out as a player) - 99.9999% of the quests do not allow me an alternativ route but the given one - interaction with NPC's does not happen, just "click+progress" you cant do anything wrong there.

Now honestly Dr. Dr. Dr.Professor78, print me a quest dialogue that you find so extraordinary well done in LOTRO that the line "there is none better than that in LOTRO" is not an empty sentence, like LOTRO is an empty game with good graphics. I will not hold my breath tho.

Originally posted by Nedax

Originally posted by Bursche

Originally posted by jammertk10

I quit WoW recently and I'm looking for a game with great PvP.

It can be P2P or F2P.

It can be horrible graphics or it can be so intense it requires a 4-D graphics card.

I am sick of raiding and endgame content in all games.

I don't want much of a grind or a long time to the level cap, long = 3+ months. But I don't exactly want it to be one afternoon either.

It can be any genre of MMO, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, anything.

Again, the main focus here is awesome PvP, I kind of enjoyed the BG system in WoW, I don't really care for looting or long death penalties, I'd rather have unltd. deaths/massive quick kills, waiting for your enemy is one of the worst things in PvP imo.

Please don't recommend.... EVE     L2     WoW

All suggestions appreciated! :)

 

Thanks,

Jamm/Beo

I think that post yells for LOTRO.
 

Now i dont really like LOTRO - actually it was a disappointment for me, but that was because i found that it was to easy, no big raids (they call 12 man teams a raid) and leveling was too fast (you can hit max level in 3 months easy by just playing casual).

Casual is the word that suits LOTRO best - it is the most casual friendly and least demanding MMO that i know. When i read you post i thought that should be the game for you. Have fun.

 

 

 

Why would you recommend a PvE game to someone looking for a PvP game..? LOTRO has no PvP worth mentioning.

the fans of LOTRO's "monster play" find it fun i guess. He asks for a game with no pve endgame grinding to be able to pvp. If i remember it right you only have to pve 1 toon up to level 10 in LOTRO then you can jump into a level 50 Monster and start working on pure pvp - once bored with that you can yawn through the pve with your level 10 again.

Wether that one Monster zone is fun for him or not he will quickly see. Some LOTRO fans claim they did nothing but monsterplay for months /shrug.

Its worth a try for him i guess there arent many pvp MMO's that do not demand timesink grinds or heavy raiding.

Originally posted by jammertk10

I quit WoW recently and I'm looking for a game with great PvP.

It can be P2P or F2P.

It can be horrible graphics or it can be so intense it requires a 4-D graphics card.

I am sick of raiding and endgame content in all games.

I don't want much of a grind or a long time to the level cap, long = 3+ months. But I don't exactly want it to be one afternoon either.

It can be any genre of MMO, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, anything.

Again, the main focus here is awesome PvP, I kind of enjoyed the BG system in WoW, I don't really care for looting or long death penalties, I'd rather have unltd. deaths/massive quick kills, waiting for your enemy is one of the worst things in PvP imo.

Please don't recommend.... EVE     L2     WoW

All suggestions appreciated! :)

 

Thanks,

Jamm/Beo

I think that post yells for LOTRO.
 

Now i dont really like LOTRO - actually it was a disappointment for me, but that was because i found that it was to easy, no big raids (they call 12 man teams a raid) and leveling was too fast (you can hit max level in 3 months easy by just playing casual).

Casual is the word that suits LOTRO best - it is the most casual friendly and least demanding MMO that i know. When i read you post i thought that should be the game for you. Have fun.

Originally posted by BesCirga

Originally posted by Bursche

And no, NPC recue protect quests in LOTRO do not cover that element, they are as old as the shawl quest in kunark (EQ)

 

I know these type of quests are old, but thats beside the point. Both quest types have a small dynamic change on the world while active and resets after its done. Other players see the change, if close by. The only minor difference is - who and how players join the quest...

To summarize; you are here slamming lotro for not doing something, no other MMO company has done yet.

Bravo!

yes while the rescue effect is a passive one if you come close and the pq effect is an active one - you can jump right into, that makes a difference and improves the old concept.

And yes lotro deserves some slamming in my opinion, for wasting one of the most amazing licenses with one of the least amazing MMO's. If it was a muppet show MMO i would not moan, but why why why the lord of the rings? I think thats worth some bashing here and there - lotro is "just another mmo" while it should not have been like that - in my humble opinion. It should have been outstanding but it isnt, without the name on the cover... where would it be?

Originally posted by BesCirga

Originally posted by Bursche

 i know it has been said hundreds of thousends of times on this and other forums, because its just true. Lotro is a coward design, daring nothing new with no inovation at all, or in other words, sucking up gamer money with the least possible risk.

yes the WAR PQ's are of course static, but if you look at it in detail you will notice that whenever your toon reaches an area where a public quest is going on, the state of that quest is different. Sometimes its near the end, sometimes it just began sometimes you reach the area when there is competition between the 2 factions and sometimes not. And all these different states of the same quest can hit you without you knowing before. Looking at PQ's like this, they in fact are dynamic compared to the static quest giver standing there, ordering you to kill X wolfs or boars at their static spawnspots. Of course it is still far from real dynamics, but it goes into that direction clearly and that is what i said.

 

And after completion it resets back; Fallen trees rise up, burnt houses are suddenly fixed etc.. What you trying to explain is no different than a NPC rescue/protect quest in lotro.

I also find it very odd that you defend WAR and slam lotro. WAR is a newer game, yet they didnt try to innovate their game world - quite the opposite actually. WAR's world is small, claustrophobic and hopelessly linear. Not to mention its just as static as all the other MMOs.

Of course it resets back, that is the meaning of a dynamic circle, when your finished it, it starts over. But at what point of the circle you enter is random if its complex and wide enough.

Also man, you need to see colors between black and white, nowhere did i defend WAR, i gave an example for a shy step in the direction of more dynamic worlds, like the TR example with their battle camps.  My guess is that the devs wanted more but the investors and naysayers did not let them.

If i was a WAR fan i would be subscribed for it, i am not - left it after  8 weeks and am not planning to go back, for actually the things you mentioned. Still to me it is fact that their public quest system added some shy sort of dynamics in my player experience since i never knew at whicht stage of the quest i arrive -> the world around me was changing (for a while), depending how players acted and that is the right way to go in my opinion.

And no, NPC recue protect quests in LOTRO do not cover that element, they are as old as the shawl quest in kunark (EQ)

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Bursche

Originally posted by Jackdog

nah Bursche you are just spouting a bunch of words, prove to me how I am wrong , lay out a outline of exactly what you mean by a dynamic MMO and a definition of what you would consider a next generation MMO. Until then you are just regurgitating  buzzwords trying to look like you are somehow superior. Any fool can take a hammer and tear something apart but it takes skill to build something. heres a chance to show what kind of a builder you are.

 

nice try to bait me - however you wont fool me into such a discussion. The problem with people like you is that you can not imagine what is not right in front of you. I did a test many months back, i described a new idea to the official forums of LOTRO and got flamed down like no tomorrow - so what i did was i spent 6 houers to draw the buttons and blent them into the lotro setting, it actually looked very pro - guess what: the same people (who wrote very similar to your style) that flamed the idea a week before cheered and said, damn when do they bring this live? They where quite disappointed when they noticed it wasnt dev preview pics but player drawn pics.

In 20 years of engineering i learned that for most people you need a functional sample before they actually understand what you are talking about. Since my coding knowledge is rather little i cannot deliver such a sample.

 

 in other words you have not the slightest idea what a next gen dynamic MMO is other than a few nice buzzwords that shady devs like to toss out . As I pointed out dynamics spawning and a influencable world is fine for a single player game, but it is completely impossible for the game design of a MMO
 

 

you can try twist the words as much as you like, i told you why giving examples does not work for people with no imagination and no fantasy.
 

Originally posted by BesCirga

Originally posted by Bursche

nice try to bait me - however you wont fool me into such a discussion. The problem with people like you is that you can not imagine what is not right in front of you. I did a test many months back, i described a new idea to the official forums of LOTRO and got flamed down like no tomorrow - so what i did was i spent 6 houers to draw the buttons and blent them into the lotro setting, it actually looked very pro - guess what: the same people (who wrote very similar to your style) that flamed the idea a week before cheered and said, damn when do they bring this live? They where quite disappointed when they noticed it wasnt dev preview pics but player drawn pics.

In 20 years of engineering i learned that for most people you need a functional sample before they actually understand what you are talking about. Since my coding knowledge is rather little i cannot deliver such a sample.

However you may wish to look at some of the older (single player) games (1985-1995) where quests had alternative routes, with player influenced outcomes.

In LOTRO it always was like "so you let me watch the intro and travel the 3D world, when can i play?, no please not another intro i wanna play!"

I wish you fun in LOTRO, you dont deserve a better game since you cant imagine a better game.

 

Hehe

Offcourse MMOs are not at the end of the line, but to slam lotro alone for not prgressing the genre, dynamic world wise, is just idiotic.

What you are saying here, have already been said a million times all around this forum. It is nothing new. We all want a more dynamic world then we have today. But, here you are stating the obvious, backing it up with flawed examples...funny.

I also found it rather funny you gave us WAR's PQ as an example of dynamic quest system.. PQ are the very defination of static content.

i know it has been said hundreds of thousends of times on this and other forums, because its just true. Lotro is a coward design, daring nothing new with no inovation at all, or in other words, sucking up gamer money with the least possible risk.

yes the WAR PQ's are of course static, but if you look at it in detail you will notice that whenever your toon reaches an area where a public quest is going on, the state of that quest is different. Sometimes its near the end, sometimes it just began sometimes you reach the area when there is competition between the 2 factions and sometimes not. And all these different states of the same quest can hit you without you knowing before. Looking at PQ's like this, they in fact are dynamic compared to the static quest giver standing there, ordering you to kill X wolfs or boars at their static spawnspots. Of course it is still far from real dynamics, but it goes into that direction clearly and that is what i said.

Originally posted by Jackdog

nah Bursche you are just spouting a bunch of words, prove to me how I am wrong , lay out a outline of exactly what you mean by a dynamic MMO and a definition of what you would consider a next generation MMO. Until then you are just regurgitating  buzzwords trying to look like you are somehow superior. Any fool can take a hammer and tear something apart but it takes skill to build something. heres a chance to show what kind of a builder you are.

nice try to bait me - however you wont fool me into such a discussion. The problem with people like you is that you can not imagine what is not right in front of you. I did a test many months back, i described a new idea to the official forums of LOTRO and got flamed down like no tomorrow - so what i did was i spent 6 houers to draw the buttons and blent them into the lotro setting, it actually looked very pro - guess what: the same people (who wrote very similar to your style) that flamed the idea a week before cheered and said, damn when do they bring this live? They where quite disappointed when they noticed it wasnt dev preview pics but player drawn pics.

In 20 years of engineering i learned that for most people you need a functional sample before they actually understand what you are talking about. Since my coding knowledge is rather little i cannot deliver such a sample.

However you may wish to look at some of the older (single player) games (1985-1995) where quests had alternative routes, with player influenced outcomes.

In LOTRO it always was like "so you let me watch the intro and travel the 3D world, when can i play?, no please not another intro i wanna play!"

I wish you fun in LOTRO, you dont deserve a better game since you cant imagine a better game.