Originally posted by pojung

Originally posted by mklinic

 The debate really seems to be a moving target. First there is a vast shortage of raids. When it turns out WoTLK is only one raid short when 3.3 hits, then it's the quality of the raids. As that discussion progresses the target changes to PvP and the lack of Open World PvP. When multiple people correct the statement all of a sudden the Open World PvP discounted despite fitting the description. I mean, don't get me wrong, sucks if your server does not bother defending their cities, but that has not been my experience. There could be any number of factors for this which might include things like time of day, server pop, or direction the wind is blowing, but really, it's still Open World PvP whether you choose to be there for it or not. 

 

1. There *is* a shortage of raids and their quality. There was Ulduar, EoE as new content and new zones. Naxx was rehashed, and ToC is laughable- 1 room with oversized, already-used models. VoA is a 10min zergfest for veterans and PUGs alike. Anything to disclaim from this?

2. Open world PvP in a literal sense is, well, pvp regardless of place or time. What do people *mean* when they say open world PvP? Spontaneity. People who whine about it don't know exactly how to express it. There is nothing 'open' about a scheduled event, once every 2hr30. There is nothing 'open' about knowing *where* to go at the drop of a dime for PvP. It is 'world' content, sure, but there's no soul to it. There's no vibrant factor. People use the term 'instanced' because it does 2 things: it isolates time, and place. BGs are literally 'instanced'- housed on seperate, physical servers, and external to any interactions with the 'world at large'. Newsflash? WG, despite being attached to the 'world at large', 'feels' 'instanced' because it meets all the criteria of what 'instanced' content is, not that of 'open world' content. It's like the heart: it's a red muscle in the body, but is categorized as a white muscle group. It's role and function meet all of the other grouping's criteria.

 

Typical forum chatter, however. People splitting hairs over literal word meanings and failing to understand the root or underbelly of what they're attempting to discuss.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if Blizzard release a new raid dungeon every month that 95% of the playerbase wouldn't be able to keep up.  So why would they do that?

Problem is it would cost too much money to voice over every quest,  without the guareentee that most players would even care about the lore of each quest.  Take WoW for example,  they have over 3,000 quests.  Do you know how much money it would cost to voice over 3,000 quests?  A ton.

you might like Jim Butcher's Codex Alera series as well. 

Originally posted by Ravanos

its because the stupid fans from WoW quit WoW but want the game they are looking at to be JUST LIKE WoW.

X game combat sucks WoW does it like this

X game quest sucks this is why WoW is so successful

X game xp is slow WoWs xp is faster

X game classes are unbalanced, WoW does this for classes

 

and of course when you mention there are other ways than WoW whats the next thing the typical WoW fanatic says.

 

WELL WOW HAS 10 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS SO IF YOU WANT THIS GAME TO BE AS SUCCESSFUL AS WOW ......

 

and you still wonder why WoW players are some of the most hated in all the genre.

Nope,  I'll just settle for the polish of WoW.  The game play can be entirely different.  You see that's the main problem with most new MMOs,  very little polish.  It's like the developers are totally half hearted about their projects or just plain lazy.

Before WoW I played EQ for 4 years and loved it.  And It's drastically different from WoW so this blows a hole in your theory about WoW players.

Originally posted by pojung

The cross realm LFG is another blow to the meta-game, but grats to the people who use it well and are none the wiser. I thought Arthas' dad was slain by his hand- or is he now a ghost of sorts? Pit of Saron? Wow, just wow...

 

I don't understand how you think cross server LFG is a bad thing.  Guilds who do guild runs will continue to do so and maybe pick up 1 or 2 random people if they need to.  All in all it helps the grouping aspect of the game.

Gold DKP (GDKP) is a great system and is becoming more popular all the time.  It involves bidding on anything valuable that drops with gold (but it must be something suitable for your class,  no warriors bidding on cloth).  All bids are done in open raid chat.  NO whispers involved.  All of the gold is handled by the "master looter" and  at the end of the run,  the gold is split evenly across ALL raid members regardless if they won something or not.

Why is it a good system?  Because even if you don't win anything you can walk away with 2k gold or more and use that money to bid next time.

I prefer around 10-12.  Too many classes is hard to balance and you run the risk of redundancy.  I mean how many different ways can you shoot fireballs or fire arrows before it becomes redundant?

Originally posted by skarwolf

 Why those two of all the current choices available ?  

perhaps you should look at the date of the original post.

Originally posted by coffee

As said by others wait till patch 3.3 lands ( in a few weeks ), or better yet as you've waited this long wait for the expansion.. its effectivly WoW 2.0 with loads of changes to the base game and a huge amount of people re-rolling.

Quoted for truth.  With the new patch it should be loads easier to find groups for all the low level instances.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by jason_webb

Hey, if you really feel you have to pass on a game because they have decided to introduce yet another income stream to the hundreds they already had in place anyway then go right ahead, but i think i will be the judge of what game i pl

We are consumers, we can choose to pay for what we want and choose not to pay for what we don't want and that hasn't changed just because Blizzard produced a new 'product' to sell to us!

ay or not.

They are selling 'Vanity' pets, not epic weapons, armor or entrance tickets to raids and to be honest if that is the way they choose to go with the game then so be it. Some people will buy these things, the vast majority will not just like the character models they sell or the posters you can get it is just something that some people will enjoy showing off in game rather than on their wall/shelf at home.

...and as for the "don't pay for what should be in the game anyway" argument, well they have no obligation to supply you with any items other than those required to play the game in reality, so where does that come from?

 

That's just it, they are selling your a product that use to be included in your game for the cost of your sub you are already paying and box purchase but it seems you can't wrap your brain around that. Now the shop is there do you think the same amount of vanity pets are going to be included in the game or patches? No they will not, they will be in the store.

Think of it this way.  You buy a ticket to a football game and you expect all the t-shirts, cups, and footballs they normally sell to automatically came free with the purchase of your ticket.  Sound logical?  no.  You don't need all those extra items to enjoy the GAME either.

You all are poor liars.  You have either quit WoW and are just trolling or quit for other reasons.  Quitting over a vanity pet that does nothing useful (combat wise) is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and honestly I wouldn't want to play with your type anyway.  Go ahead and leave the other 11 million or so will continue to enjoy the game.

They have hot zones nowdays that give increased exp.  Ask in general chat which zones are hot for your level range.  Also makes it easier to find groups.

Originally posted by Euphoryk

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Buknastey

My gear and achievements speak for themselves. The game has simply become far too simplistic, and at every fork in the road even more of that original charm is lost.

Sad, but true.

You say it's too simplistic but you have far less than half of the raiding achievments.  When you have most of them,  you can come back and say the game's too easy imo.

Why do you think Cross server instances are a bad thing??  It's the best idea they have ever had!  

Originally posted by Xasapis

That's not bad at all.

All they need now is a tutoring system (so you can play with your lower level friends) and it'll be perfect.

The tutoring system is not a bad idea in theory.  I think the problem is how do you scale a players gear and still keep the appropiate challenge of the dungeon?

On a unrelated note,  I hope they also add public quests (ala Warhammer) as another means of grouping in open world zones.  I'm probably dreaming here.

OMG this idea was mentioned like 2 years ago (at least).  I'm glad they are finally doing it.  I love running dungeons more then soloing.

Originally posted by TomasHartvig

Thanks for all the suplies. :) Well, many of you talk about Blizzards next big mmo.. Do you have a name on that? Or :)

Well, Old republic is also one of those i am waiting for, so i hope that will be huge.

Blizzard hasn't announced anything about it yet.

Originally posted by Venger

"why do players raid?"

Because people are to simple to realize they are being suckered into paying to run the same crap over and over again.  Because developers devised a great maze for the rats to chase their cheese.

That's all MMO gameplay, raiding or not.  Why are you on this site?  Anyway,  raiding can be great fun with good friends not with random idiots.  It's all about taking the effort to build (or seek out) a good guild.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by Luneth7

It's a total snoozefest. I've had more fun watching paint dry.

Sure, It's nice to have some alone time to yourself every now and then and be able to solo when grouping just isn't viable but when the majority of the core game is composed of everyone soloing, It's just soo dull to me.

You can argue that most games end-game isn't very solo friendly but who wants to put up with the entire journey to there If It's all a solo fest?

Snoozers, I think I'd rather play with a wooden toy car and take naps than spend more than half of my time soloing in MMORPG's.

 

 I like to solo and to group but I prefer my game to be playable solo as much as possible why?  Because in theory I don't know when I'll be able to group or not I don't want to have only an hour to play but not be able to because every group takes three hours running a dungeon.  I play LOTRO which I can say for a fact is very solo friendly but I group all the time even through solo content when I chose to.  Now posts like this make me question the social skills of a person who feels that the inclusion of solo content forces one to solo, most games that have all that solo content are almost more rewarding to people smart enough to two or three man through large chunks of content and in a healthy game I don't see what's so hard about being able to show others who enjoy the game the same thing.

  I think what's ultimately most important is for the player to be able to log into the game and access enough content to be satisfied at any given time if developers are painting themselves into corners with too difficult content they lose out on people who may play during off peak hours and much more.  What needs to happen is those who enjoy raid content need to make sure you are continually heard and maybe even consider there may not be as many of you out there as you think if you are not being heard, but still make sure the devs know that you desire that type of content but take pride in the fact that your game can appease many types of players.

Not sure what games you've been playing but WoW heroic dungeons don't take 3 hours...more like 15-30 min max if you don't wipe and know your way around so to speak.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

I could solo WoW to the level cap with one hand tied behind my back, literally.

But it would bore me to tears.

I don't understand people that think leveling up a toon in a game like WoW requires players skill. Skill at what? Clicking the mouse button on an attack ability? Really?

I require a group to do everything because it's actually fun in an MMORPG, rather than mindlessly grinding through content that is boring as watching paint dry.

Leveling doesn't really require skill in WoW, and I actually never said that, so you should take that up with the person to make that comment.  Please quit saying "clicking" I havn't clicked an ability in a few years now, hotkeys improve your reaction time, cut down on the searching. Also gives me the ability to kite with my mouse, you should try it.

Grouping requires a brain? Spam heal, spam dps, hold agro. That's highly intense gameplay. Way more interesting then multitasking a hand full mobs/players by myself and survive, thankfully I must be very lucky since there is no such thing as skill in MMOs.

 

 

Why has this discussion gone off topic anyway?  It's about having fun not taking skill.