Indeed, I heard it uses the state of the art "MS Paint" Graphics Engine.

Really, it's quite amazing!

Wait 'till Slayers roll around then...

Finally, Dwarfs will be cool.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Ascension08

Oh, no wonder why. You actually tried WAR and you like sandboxes? What a mistake. Everyone knew WAR would be similar to WoW and you still tried it. I'm sorry, you just set yourself up for disappointment mate.

 

I'm capable of liking different games for different reasons. I had no allusions about Warhammer's basic design, but you can still have plenty of content and different acitivites for people in a level based game. Something that Warhammer utterly lacks.

 

Particularly non-combat things, which unfortunately are not really part of WAR's scope. I understand what you mean, believe me. WAR is very much a game and not a world...that's the best summary I can think of.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Ascension08

I'd have to say the only legitimate concern is that there needs to be "more to do" in the game, or what's there needs to be better implemented, is the only one I can agree on. But I think that's partly Mythic's design choice. I've heard someone say, "You do the same things at level 1 that you do at level 40, except later on it's on a bigger scale. How boring!"

 

That's a pretty big legitimate concern for an MMO, or for any game, really. If that's Mythic's design choice, then whatever. It's costing them subscriptions.

Why would I want to play a game where there just isn't that much to do?

There is alot to do, it's just you do them so much that it gives the illusion that there isn't. For example, you have Tome Unlocks (particularly Lore unlocks, which are a b*tch to find), Scenarios, oRvR (nothing going on? Start something!), PvE of course, PQs, crafting (which does need to be worked on a bit ) and just messing around. The best is to do a mix of these things of course.

In a sandbox, there isn't that much to do either, and you'd think the same thing would happen to those as WAR. The difference is the "freedom" aspect of it. Since there aren't any levels, you aren't forced to do something just because you think you have to level. In WAR you still have choice but there are different things affecting those choices (like trying to level for example). In a sandbox, anything that would affect your choices are a result of you or other peoples' actions, which gives it a great sense of freedom (like whether or not you kill that one guy because there could be consequences later on).

At least, that's how I understand it. I'm relatively new to the genre (WoW carebear so to speak?) but I've learned from all these disgruntled vets around here. The sandbox idea is definetely enticing and I can understand all the frustration because it's not really dominant anymore.

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Rydran

I am sick and tired of people thinking thats all there is to MMO's. The story line of the quests, the fun of getting from zone to zone, and the ablity to war against good or evil (your choice) is the point of these games.

 

The point of these games should be to have fun. And I don't personally believe Warhammer meets that criteria.

Some previous MMOs didn't even have a leveling system or a quest based story line. One of my biggest complaints about the trend of MMOs is that we have to have something called "end game" at all, rather then simply a game that allowed someone to advance and become "better" without a leveling system, such as the skill box system one found in the pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies.

Oh, no wonder why. You actually tried WAR and you like sandboxes? What a mistake. Everyone knew WAR would be similar to WoW and you still tried it. I'm sorry, you just set yourself up for disappointment mate.

I'd have to say the only legitimate concern is that there needs to be "more to do" in the game, or what's there needs to be better implemented, is the only one I can agree on. But I think that's partly Mythic's design choice. I've heard someone say, "You do the same things at level 1 that you do at level 40, except later on it's on a bigger scale. How boring!"

Well, those same people would be the ones saying, "Why do they make RvR level 40 only? If the real game starts at the end, why'd I waste my time leveling?" if Mythic had designed WAR more like WoW, level restriction-wise.

There's always a variety of things to do in WAR but because you can do them right from the start, they tend to get boring. While it goes against the design philosophy, I think they do need a mix of more mid to high-level only things, such as dungeons but also maybe something unique so that you have something to look forward to.

Edit: Please don't mistake what I said for adding in raid dungeons to grind in all day. While I know that's fun for some people, for the majority, it's not. PvE needs a little boost in WAR but not an overdose. I'd say maybe 3 more raids would be suitable, that is, level 40-only raids. Fortunately there isn't as much of a gear dependency as in WoW so it wouldn't be as much of a problem, but it'd still be something to do, especially for the PvErs. As long as when the time came to fight and push the zone, they showed up, I think it'd be better.

Originally posted by Goober2k3

 Are any other pre-trammal UO fans as giddy about darkfall as I am? I mean shit it's not gonna be as polished as WoW but the fundamentals of the game seem to be aimed towards us! Thoughts?

I wouldn't be holding my breath for Darkfall; even if it does release (which I think it will eventually), then the quality and long-term competence of Aventurine are in question. Honestly, if Tasos decides to keep running things like he has been lately, I don't see this game getting fast patches, reliable information, customer support, or any other of the basic "needs" of a modern MMO gamer.

If Darkfall doesn't pan out then you'll have games like Mortal Online or Earthrise at least, which seem to be run by more...respectable companies.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Hairwolf

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Originally posted by popinjay

 

No no no.. stick around......
Mark Jacobs sent a "mystery package" to K & G Headquarters the other day with hair clippers, hair dye and a cryptic note! It was a PR hint kit that Slayers are coming!!
Don't leave yet! You can reroll your 5th alt into the 20s again and take revenge on all those Destro Witch Elves!

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If this happens could be awesome, Slayers were always some of my favourite characters within the mythos.

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Oh its happening all right. Check around forums around the 29th of this month and wait for an important announcement from Mark Jacobs. Rumor is that's when he'll pop the surprise of Slayers coming.

 

YUP!

- They can't fix the boring Open RvR!

- They can't fix the continious Fortress server / zone crashes!

- They can't fix the boring endgame!

 

So yeah... they need to do something to keep people subscribed. 

1.1.1 introduces "Subliminal Zone Control", sort of, where if you actually hold all of the BOs and Keeps then you can lock the zone, not determined only by spamming Scenarios or doing PQs anymore to tip that scale. Though until they really make Zone Control and actual player kills more valuable, I'm not sure how much that'll help. It's in addition to the existing Control system, not a replacement of it though.

There's only been a few Fort crashes on Dark Crag I believe, we just stormed two on Azazel and went like butter...new arguments please.

Boring endgame? Well, that's a matter of opinion. If you don't play sports I don't imagine you can understand how nice it is to "win" after fighting for so long, so, if you only play for the uber gearz, that's fine. You're going to get bored.

Well, seeing as you're only talking about the broken endgame, the title of your thread is a bit misleading. You're just talking about how the city siege is more PQ than PvP, though all I heard was "farming PQ ZOMG LAWL MYTHIC YOU SUCK LAWL GO FALL IN A DITCH" for the second half of the post.

Originally posted by TheHoweller

What gets me about that quote is the fact that they seem to think hype is a negative thing, when...

They've said shit like the following, over the last few months...

 

From the Curse.com interview with Tasos (http://www.curse.com/articles/darkfall-en-news/372269.aspx)

 

"Yes we have all of that, everything you can expect from a dungeon and more. What's turning out to be a unique feature as far as dungeons in MMOGs are concerned is that we don't have instancing."

"There are several hundred spells and skills in Darkfall."

"The world can hold over 10 thousand concurrent users. Even so, the world is very large and won't be overcrowded."

"In Darkfall, you have the freedom and the pleasure of developing your character exactly the way you want. Ultima Online had about a hundred skills and spells. Darkfall has at least 10 times that, and there will be more added throughout the life cycle of the game with every update. The number of skills in Darkfall ensures that each character will be truly unique. "

"Skill decay will set in at a slow rate for unused skills at an expert level. There are also skill trees that open up new skill categories that lead to further specialization. " (What in the hell is skill decay? Are they just pulling this crap out of their asses)

"We have a large number of ships and boats of all sizes and shapes ranging from rafts to massive 50 cannon warships. "

 

From MMORPG.com's Interview with Tasos (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?bhcp=1&game=4&feature=2494%2FInterview-with-Tasos-Flambouras) This guy just screams "over-confident dipshit".

 

"Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time. Everything has been tested internally and since November 10th we've been using an ever-growing number of external testers."

"So long compared to what? We've been in development since 2003. Look at all that makes Darkfall stand out compared to other MMOs. In order to deliver all that we've had to develop proprietary technology from scratch. We also had to develop a company from scratch and everything associated with running a long game development cycle. We've done this independently.

Even games that license all their technology are taking 5+ years, while still using teams several times the size of our own. All this usually with the backing of major publishers, and most of their everyday problems solved.

So I would say that our development time is consistent with the making a breakthrough game, all the reusable technology to run it, and limited resources to do so. It's a long time, sure...but not for what we've achieved."

"Darkfall is a game that stands out, it's not a clone. Some people doubt it's possible, others worry that it is. Either way it generates a lot of interest. If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic.

Another red flag is Darkfall's large, active and very passionate community. A lot of communities would like to be like Darkfall's. Slandering our game is a way to get a reaction.

We have a thick skin; this kind of thing doesn't touch us. It actually makes us feel like we're on the right track. It has also served to fire up our community and has created diehard fans. It got a lot of people to take a closer look at our game and realize that this is what they've been waiting for. All the "trolls" have achieved is to inadvertently help perpetuate the buzz for Darkfall.

We know exactly what we've got on our hands. Our best answer is that our game is coming out and then the voices will have to find something else to talk about."

 

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You know what...I'm done quoting the interview, the entire thing's just about him trash-talking other MMOs, claiming Darkfall's the tie-breaker.

The truth is, Aventurine created the hype, they never wanted to downplay it. It would have been so simple for the idiots to be honest with us through the last few months. Instead they chose to hide their faces and shove Tasos out the door to give a PR statement once a month.

Darkfall may be feature-complete and ready, but really if Aventurine's lying about something so simple as the fact that they DON'T want to hype their game...They're hiding a "massive" blunder. I really hate this company, I can't imagine how they could have managed to create what they're claiming, it's ridiculous. Just to ensure you all have the understanding of what I'm saying...It's not the concept that's ridiculous, Darkfall can be done...But I don't think these lying idiots will be the first.

And yes, the OP's a F%&#ing dipshit, never quote a statement that you've imagined.
 

Which is why when people say, "Oh, come on, they're a wee lit'le indie company and they deserve a break! Cut 'em some slack won't ya?" I just laugh. Do they really deserve any? No, especially not with a guy like Tasos. It's good to be proud about your product but it's even better to admit when you're wrong. Some stupid excuse like "we didn't expect the massive increase in Darkfall's popularity and will have to readjust" doesn't fly either. Arrogance does not earn respect, but for some reason, in Tasos' case, it does. Breaking his promises? No problem, he's Tasos! He's just a poor guy who got screwed and it isn't his fault. People only accept it because of everything he and his company are promising. It's quite sad in my opinion.

I'll be nice to Aventurine but unless they're honest about shooting too high, promising too much for what they're capable of, then they don't have my respect and I won't cut them any slack.

I'm not giving up on Darkfall because I'm very interested to see the whole debacle unfold.

If you try to speed through this game or if you only care about stats/gear, you'll find it's lacking. If you go a little slower, explore a bit, get into the lore, and RvR for winning's sake, not for UBER GEAR's sake, I think you'll enjoy it alot more. But yeah, casuals definetely have more fun with WAR overall.

Originally posted by Thoric485

It's one thing to make the game.

And a whole other thing to ensure a steady gameplay experience when 300k people from all over the world fill the game world for the first time. Not only they're a indie company trying to push a  revolutionary game where ping would be cruical, when many MMO releases of companies with close to limitless funding were plagued by lag, server downtime and awful bugs, but they also seem suprised by the way their playerbase grew rapidly in the last months. Cut them some slack and find something else to do in the days until the free trial or whatever.

They're the ones who shot too high, why should we cut them any slack? Just because of what they're "promising", which, by the way, doesn't mean much now that Tasos broke his promise of never announcing a release date until they were 100% sure they were ready? Sorry Aventurine, you brought this upon yourselves. What would you think happened if you promised a revolutionary, fun sandbox game? People would get hyped up and they'd tell their friends.

Originally posted by Skooma2

I am confused and need help.   The OP has advised in his post that he is leaving the site and will not be back.  For some reason, this reminds me of people in-game who announce to the entire world that they are putting someone on ignore.  I fail to understand the logic behind both situations.  Why not just leave, or put someone one on your ignore list?  What is the fascination with announcing it to the whole world?  Who, do you suppose, cares but you?

He's trying to make a point so that maybe other people who think like him but are not vocal will do the same thing. It's the same thing as asking why people gather in protests, except that's a group of people. Maybe I won't care about what they're protesting, but the guy next to me might.

It's just human nature, people want to feel important.

Originally posted by vmoped

Originally it was the hammerer. If they introduce slayer instead then I think they will have the lore peeps upset since their whole purpose is to die in battle, honorably. I also think that alot of people will immediately roll one adding to the further issue on some servers of low destro population, because I do not see the choppa having as much appeal as a blood covered and naked dwarf dual weilding axes and spewing curses while he tears through his enemies.

Just my 2 cents (too bad current inflation renders it worthless).

Cheers!

I was a strong advocate of "Slayers would go against lore" until I realized that it could actually work. If you've ever been a Melee DPS in WAR, going for the squishies, you know how fast you get WTFPWNT by tanks and everyone else. That's a honorable death though, you're going down fighting, especially if you take someone out with you. However, don't assume that Slayers are suicide bombers. In a way, they are, but they're fighting too. If somehow they survive, they might be upset, but it's not the end of the world. Just like everyone else they'll go find another fight and hopefully die in that one.

The only thing I'm unsure about is the social friendliness of Slayers. My understanding is that they do group sometimes and gather at the Slayer Keep in Kadrin Valley sometimes, but generally they travel alone. I guess Mythic could  make it work though. Nice description of the Slayer, haha.

But Orc Choppas would be popular too, only because 1) there's only one current Orc class and that makes alot of Greenskin fans mad, and 2) instead of vengeful, curse-spittin killing machines, they're stupid, maniacal killing machines. Dwarfs might tip the scale with the mohawk though.

Edit: MJ did  say look out for a rather special announcement coming at the end of January. I don't know if Slayers will be introduced but it'll certainly help the small population inbalances on some servers if they will be.

You can make people on this particular site happy. Just say "sandbox", "like the old days", "WoW sucks", "no more themepark carebears", and maybe "meaningful PvP" and you have 95% of the community on your side.

But generally, yes, you can't make everyone happy.

Non-MMO vets who are okay with how the genre turned out nowadays, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Originally posted by shad0wyone

Still, I stand by my point, Aventurine never promised a release date, only beta dates, and frankly Darkfall was a basement project until 2003.

EDIT: Also, getting a publisher that lets you keep digital rights and all that is hard to do, the last thing Darkfall needs is t be ruined by SoE, sure it'd get out faster, but again, ruined.

Tasos also promised he'd never give out a release date until he was 100% sure he could keep it. Oh but it's okay, he can break promises because it was just sooo unexpected and I'm sure that the 300K forum users just popped up overnight, right? Oh and their publisher just decided on January 14th, the night before the delay announcement, that they couldn't handle it, so Tasos is just a poor, honest guy who was screwed by everyone but himself.

Okay.

Order assaulting the Inevitable City is a worthy "tale of pwn". Sorry OP, yours isn't.

I'm also on Azazel and Destro held both Thunder Mountain and Praag for about a week and a half before we finally drove them back (and, subsequently, took two Forts and attacked the IC).

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by fscotte55

Yeah that's freaky.  When the time comes.... OK it's about a month from the new release date and so tell us when is the time?  Would that be after the pre-orders are in?

 

 

probly be before but ims ure by then youll have plenty of reviews from the people playing anyways

Yes, I hope Tasos "copy and pastes" those player reviews and posts them under his name on the forums.