All Posts by Seen_Justice

Originally posted by PreCU

I don't believe it. If this were the end they'd at least still allow us to buy year subscriptions

 

lol so true... Probably even push a lifetime sub ala LOTRO too. Then "POOF!" Pull the plug on it, and make sure to keep the first place of the most despicable MMO company to date! How many major screw up do they have between their hands now?... That defies the most pessimistic pronostics.

I must disagree with the OP here.

The reason why you "think" pen & paper are superior to your average MMO of today, is because developers sucks. Plain and simple. If they would take advantage of every possible game mechanics an online persistant world can offer, you would have a different perspective.

In the end, it all comes down to what you said about "imagination is your limit". If you have a bad GM playing DnD, your adventure will suck. If you have a bad game designer designing a MMO, your MMO will suck. Once we see those unimaginative dinosaur developers getting out of business, maybe those with the money will realize that they should support those with true originality. The MMO genre will then shine like pen & paper did. (and still does)

But we need people who creates games for the true reasons first, and like any other art, money shouldn't be the first consideration. I'm pretty sure the best PnP stories haven't make it to the market, because people who did them didn't care to make a bucks with them. And i really don't get why developers are so afraid or taking those so called "risk" of doing something different. In reality, all they are saying is "we don't have the stuff to create something really original, so we must rely on the standard cookie cutter crap in order to survive." A true good original game can't sink if it's done well. The community will give it the attention it deserves.

So stop being afraid, and start producing our dream games already. You don't know how? Just think at those days when you we're being "creative" instead of sick-a-fentic player money suckers.

I must say that as a developer, i really am stunned to see how many threads are created about Darkfall every day. Not to mention that even if they get heated, at least it keeps people talking about it.

I'm wondering if the DF developers are aware of this, and trying to capitalize on it. Because that's some serious free publicity they got going there. If they ever release, i suspect both believers and non-believers would try the game eventually. And if it doesn't... Well, they don't have anything to loose at all since they are not a known company in the industry like Blizzard, Ubisoft or EA. So no name or credibility to jeopardize, since they already have none.

Even if i consider it a lame duck, this game is a phenomenon for keeping the interest of fans and trolls to keep coming back to defend or bash that game. Beside SOE hating, i think it must come second in popularity, even more so then WoW bashing.

Wether it's by accident or planned, that's a marketing feat worth mentioning in my book.

Most definitely. I adds a lot to the immersion if you can interact (play) with every single elements of the world. It's also easy to make it count toward your overall progress, so you never feel like you're wasting your time. Since character optimization and improvement is very important in a persistant world, you got to make those mini-games count in a way or another into the betterment of your Avatar. Else it just become a lame duck detracting you from your main goal.

Wether it's just betting in-game coins on a back gammon match up, or taking control of a racing car on that random track you found in the wasteland makes no difference: You "must" be able to impact the world, or your character one way or another with your mini-games. Otherwise, i see no purpose to them as they won't be worth the development time if you don't create a mechanics that makes them worth playing again and again.

My take on this is that there will definitely be a massive "flirt" with WAR by the WoW crowd. But none can say if the flirt will be permanent, and it has to be before being called an exodus.

Originally posted by Dracus

Look to the Indies.

Stay away from the Meatrix, Neo.

QFT.

Originally posted by Sam123jo0123

Unfortunately in online forums the post count does matter as constant negative posters like to make multiple accounts, usually with low post counts - therefore people usually don't listen to people who joined yesterday and have 90% negative posts in N forum.

Well i hope this is not the general consensus of the MMORPG.com community, or else i feel like i'm going to quickly turn into a passive reader...

It's pretty easy to get your account post high in a short period of time, but it's not easy to post things that is worth reading. So until they add a measure of "quality" in addition to their numbers, i can't give any more credits to someone simply for having a greater number of post. For all that we know, it could be someone reading the forum and only posting when having a burst about a specific topic. Those people are usually much more interesting then those spilling their post counts at every corner, and rarely bringing anything refreshing to chew on.

Originally posted by Kyleran

 

Originally posted by Seen_Justice

 

Originally posted by Seggallion

And you opinion is somehow important to us? Lame trolling.

I fail to see how it is trolling to simply put some facts on the table. Maybe some of them can be debated, but most doesn't since there's obviously nothing to prove them wrong. 

 

If you think someone is a troll every time he doesn't appraise the game you're falling for, you are completely missing the whole point of having a forum at first place. It is called a "forum" for a reason. I think what you're looking for is more along the way of "Comments & Feedback" box, where people can't argue on them since they go straight to the developer mail box, (or trash) and where you don't have to debate your point of view.

Forum's are about keeping an OPEN MIND so a PRODUCTIVE DEBATE can occur. Calling other people's opinion not important or worst, "trolling" just because it goes against your way is both close minded, and counter-productive.

 

Says the person with 8 posts who also just joined the forums recently.

You have to understand, there is a phenomenon with the DF forum in that there is constantly people creating new accounts and the first (and sometimes only) thing they do is attack DF.  Most of us suspect they are the same folks, who just keep getting banned over and over, but the fact remains, their principle mission seems to be to troll this forum. (not saying you are btw)

So many of us are very skeptical of posters with short history here who do nothing but dredge up the exact same thing others have posted before.

Now, back to the OP's list of "facts" since I don't want to be off topic.  While its true the developers haven't shown us many of the features on the list, one problem with his argument is, just because he hasn't  seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

See, we're sort of at a stalemate, neither of us can really prove the other person wrong.

And so what if people want to keep hoping for DF to one day be released? Nothing wrong with dreaming, and it certainly isn't hurting any of the folks who decry the game to let them keep waiting for it.

No, I actually view the OP as a trolling attempt, rather than reasonable debate as you are suggesting.

 

 

I must say i really hate censorship of all sorts. We're supposed to be living in the "civilized" part of the world, where our government doesn't second guess over our shoulder which web site we can go to, and what we should be able to write/read into them. It's a very annoying trend for me to see those popular forums becoming more and more this way. Let people say what they have to say for heaven sake, and don't read them if you don't like it. (I might be new here, but i skimmed through the options and saw that you could block or ignore poster if you wish. So add them on your ignore list if what they post doesn't make any sense)

See i'm here to contribute the best i can to the overall debate about MMO's in general. I don't seek to be right or wrong, simply to evolve my own ideas about MMO gaming, and hopefully bring enough materials on the table to help others evolve their own as well. So i'll get very itchy every time someone is shut down, banned or what not for simply stating an opinion. Wether he is the 500 ones to post it doesn't matter: We must be ready to bear with the fact that we're going to read and debate the same thing all over again during the course of a forum life. I really don't like the fact that you seem to be willing to discard my opinion simply because i joined just a few days ago. Just take my words (and others) for what they are. The number of post you got doesn't make them any more or less relevant in my book.

Maybe... I can't tell which incarnation of a possible previously banned member it is. I just have to focus on the point that he made, and since i tend to agree with most of what he says, i was just surprised to see the etiquette "troll" thrown at him.

I'm also aware of the troll description made by MMORPG.com, and i believe it's still just a judgement call. This removes a lot of the freedom we have to debate on many issues, because you could accuse any perfectly well thought post to be a troll bait as well. The line to cross to become a troll is not clear to me right now. If anything, what i'm saying here could be considered trolling by some of you for all that i know. (And then, it's pretty easy to all fall under the troll etiquette as soon as we oppose someones idea)

Anyhow... I wish a game such as Darkfall would see the day, because it has a lot of genuine concept that i would like to see implemented to break the mold of this industry. Alas, all the clues i have on the table thus far, leads me to believe it's one of the most inflated bubble of vaporware i've seen in a decade.

Originally posted by Seggallion

And you opinion is somehow important to us? Lame trolling.

If you think someone is a troll every time he doesn't appraise the game you're falling for, you are completely missing the whole point of having a forum at first place. It is called a "forum" for a reason. I think what you're looking for is more along the way of "Comments & Feedback" box, where people can't argue on them since they go straight to the developer mail box, (or trash) and where you don't have to debate your point of view.

Forum's are about keeping an OPEN MIND so a PRODUCTIVE DEBATE can occur. Calling other people's opinion not important or worst, "trolling" just because it goes against your way is both close minded, and counter-productive.

A decent ploy.

But i'm afraid those who need to understand your statement are beyond redemption. The others have gotten a clue for a while now and moved on...

Originally posted by Katashi-kun

 

Originally posted by harabas

ok, let's make a LIST!!

 

here's one, i'd like to see quests involving puzzles that are mind boggling, e.g., like going through a set of stairs that go round, diagonally or even inverted till you get to the other end.

 

Great idea, but after meeting the WoW community that couldn't even read the text provided for every quest that told u exactly what to do...u really think they would be able to figure this out...!

The WoW crowd is pretty much the same then other MMO crowd. The reason why they don't bother to read quest is because the game is selling itself as a fast food MMO, so you don't expect anything but a shallow/fast consumption experience when you play it.

If you would have a game that set up a different mind set, you would be surprised at how many of those same people you believe who can't read, would like your puzzle game. Because like most of us: We're not all carebears, griefer or hardcore all the time. Sometimes you feel like eating junk, and some other times you want fine cuisine. The problem right now is that there are only different version of the most popular McDonald MMO, so instead of attempting to become the master of Pastas or Grill, they keep popping burger bars all over the place.

WoW and McDonald are the leading fast food product in their domain.  Nobody will ever replace it.

There is plenty of room now for a different gastronomy and a good portion of the MMO player base will at least try it if it's done well. After that, who knows... Once you've tasted great and healthy food, it's hard to return to big macs. We just need to be more exposed to it for our taste buds to evolve.

I can see 2 major things to consider when asking yourself "how big" is it acceptable to be:

*** Seemless world with nothing inside is worthless. I would prefer to play a smaller map with a lot of content, rather then a never ending empty land.

*** Technology tells you how much you can put on the screen or on a server. Work inside of those limitations to make sure the game play stays fluid. Once again, it's much better to have a 50 vs 50 that is working, rather then a laggy 100 vs 100.

Originally posted by Aragon100

Aye screenies is just breathtaking. Look at the shadowing and the details!!! The big leaves behind the Orc and the Mahirim look almost photorealistic.

That this game have the best features of all coming MMORPG:s have been clear for a long time, but i coudent even in my wildest dreams think they would also have the best graphics of the coming MMORPG:s.

You can't possibly be serious when you say that... ? 

Sad but true. Reading too much internet forum also tend to diminish my belief that humanity is worth a damn.

There are several things that i believe must be adressed in the MMO world. Many details in which none of them come at first place. Among them, the followings:

*** The trend is heading too much towards making MMO with a standard multiplayer feel. Instance limiting the amount of people in the same area comes to my mind here. What's the purpose of playing a MMO if you can only affect small areas at a time, like you would do by loading a RTS or FPS map? It's becomes nothing more then a big organized room for multiplayer experience. There is no MMO or persitence element into it, and that's a huge problem in my book.

*** Crafting systems in most past and upcoming block busters is completely overlooked, or thrown in as a second thought. I won't sit here to try and explain developers why the economic part should play such a big role in any persitant world. If they don't understand it, they should work on standard multiplayer game or single player game where everything is loot base. The economy of a persitant world "is a game by itself", that generates game play and reasons to fight for without the need of adding any new content. The lack of good player base economy in our most popular games limit the possibility to dive into their virtual world a great deal. This might satisfy a portion of the player base, but it completely allienates those who wants a deeper experience. And there's no reasons for that because you could keep your standard player who don't like crafting in the game, and offer a solid crafting/economic system without any deterents. But you can't keep the player base who wants deep interaction between each element of the world in a shallow design though. So let's add this to the list of things that "should" be done right from now on.

*** Lack of customization is a killer. There are thousands of ways to give a player the opportunity to customize his character, gear or skills, that there's absolutely no excuses to have thousands of clones running over each other. By removing customization out of the equation, you remove the originality and creativity players can demonstrate. Once again, it penalize those who wants to go deeper, yet it wouldn't penalize those who wants to stay on the surface to provide the more eager player base with an intricated system that would allow you to customize your experience from your Avatar, to your housing and all the gear you're wearing. It's not just about pushing graphics either, it's about having the option of putting your own signature into a game, which adds a lot to the sense of being proud of being part of that game, by adding your color to the rainbow. (You feel much less of a spectator if you have a color that isn't there, rather then just one of the thousand shade of the same color that was drawn for every body.)

I think that sums it up for me. There are plenty of other details that needs to be adressed, but if they follow my recommendation here, developers would already be able to push MMO's to the next level in my book.

A mixt of everything for me. I don't like one specific genre over another. For me, gaming is like an all you can eat buffet, so a game that could reflect that with a lot of different play style, environment and art work would win my heart.