You fail to understand true meaning of your argument. It's not details but boarder meaning. Warcraft was huge name before WoW came. Who cares if they didn't knew details, they still knew Warcraft and Blizzard.

Then again history shows that it's not enough. SWG was disaster and so was WAR because they were poor games. I think argument is partly valid meaning that WoW wouldn't been so big if it wasn't based on well know IP.

When ever developers try to out-smart players they end up looking idiots. Thats what whole Google thing will be. And it's not even nothing new, games in 80's had this. Take look AVGN(angry video game nerd) review on swordquest. I guess next we will see MMO where you need to call some pay number to solve problems, epic way to get more money.

Now that all GW2 fanbois have blasted the thread maybe back to Swtor. So take barrel roll back to your own forum and come back talking when game is actually game and not pile of demos.

It was nice to see raid target in such a low level. Normally these are skipped so intresting to see how much people will actually spend time on this stuff. Also epics in low level, nice. While people been moaning graphics there was lot of positive things, firstly everyone looked pretty unique and there wasn't much clones mostly thanks to different colors in weapons. Yes the combat did get pretty boring but you can't really have heavy scripting on such a low level, it would ruin the boss. Same goes for sound effects. But then again huge raids are never easy to design and they feel same in every MMO.

I think big thing for me is how solid the game is? So far what I seen and heard it seems pretty solid. I remember playing AoC and thinking this was epic, but then I got out of Tortuga were it all went down hill. Someone who played WoW from begin enjoying until totally giving up after playing Catalysm for few months, Swtor might be perfect game.

Looks standard stuff nowdays. Lack of hair and facial hair style was odd but hopefully they add more in future. Youtube video seemed to be done someone suffering ADHD, badly.

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Yes and no.  I do think all those things you mentioned are skills, with the possible exception of patience.
However I don't think it took more school to play say EQ or Daoc than WoW.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that I played Wow the exact same way I played EQ, the only difference was EQ took longer.
So yes it takes some basic level of skill to play any game, it doesn't take more skill to play old MMO games as opposed to new MMO games
Venge

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What is the skill that separates the old school mmorpg player from the new school mmorpg player?

 

  Experience and patience. Wow hard mode is no less difficult than another other game in the history of mmorgs, but (and its a big but) it offers easy-mode as well and tries to present it as 'other' content, when actually it is the highly tuned and difficult content made with a lower skill requirement.  

edit : incidently wow present this the other way to make it palatable, ie, normal mode, but there is a 'heroic level'   However, heroic is simply high skill level that has allways been here since early mmorgs.  You could argue the hard level is harder than in the past because the player base is 20 years + more experienced, and obviously skill levels rise over time.  Again easy mode muddies the waters.

 Bollocks, old MMORPGs weren't hard, they were tedious and boring. Most tasks weren't hard but complicated and time consuming. Mastering poor UI, misusage of game mechanic and macroing were "skills" needed by players. You also had to know things not by using intuation but by repeating them over and over. "Skill" was combination of suffering boredom and repeative tasks. AI was crap and lacked programmed pattern. World were so empty and mob spawn system sucked so players needed to create own imaginary "content".

Originally posted by Hexipox

Originally posted by Czelaw

There is no Boob slider if thats what your asking.....

 Are you serious?!? why didnt i know this before i pre-ordered. ffs wish i could cancle it. Deffently not worth playing if no boob slider.. They cant be serious!

 Don't worry it will have man-boob slider, trust me.

Originally posted by vrielgame

Seems everyone has different definition of the key element of revolutionary MMORPG...

 

it only points out one thing - there is never a single MMORPG satisfies everyone's need! From my point of view, since I love both MMORPG and Action game, at least I will give Core Blaze a shot, to see if it meets my need :D

 Indeed, in my mind revolutionary means getting bigger, more players. And lets face it that what it usually means. TV, computers, internet they all revolutionized our world because they got big. World of Warcraft got us 10 million, Facebook has hundreds of millions people. Can MMO ever be that big, yes I hope.

Originally posted by Grahor

Well, if you compare it to how, for example, Fallen Earth handles terrain, maps and exploration, then it's a tunnel.

 

As I've said, it's a question of perception. I've just watched the video again, and for me it feels exactly like the same valleys in kotor. Yeah, they may be 200 x 200 instead of 100 x 50, but it's just a longer and wider tunnel.

 Sigh, Planets are same as continents in WoW. They are open design with instanced dungeons plus certain places have WoW Catalysm style private "instance" system. This also means they can create multiple instances of certain parts of planet if there is heavy load (bit like AoC, except it was whole map, this is part of map). It's not like in EQ2 or old games where you would hit loading point when moving along. You only get loading screen when you change planet (duh it's the space, are you gonna swim there) or enter instance.

Stop making your own terms and stick with industry standard. SWTOR is more WoW than EQ2 or AoC terms of world design.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Kylera

But the thing is, I want more features to encourage people to socialize within the game, not outside of it, there's already enough tools to do that already IMO.

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That's my point. The tools available for socializing in games are primitive compared to what's available outside games. You can add anything you want to encourage socialization, but if you filter it through a 90's era chat interface, it's going to fail.

 

 

About two years ago I was anxious to see social tools for the 21st century player enter MMOs, and I genuinely thought it would happen, but the closest we've come is mobile trading apps and integrated Twitter updating.

 

 

 Exactly. Why I need to login to send message to my guildies, why not use cellphone or website. Why can't I do my preparations for raiding in work using website, buy potions from AH or trade with friends, move my character to log closest camp. Why can't I see situation of World PvP in website? Why is my character not doing anything while I'm offline, maybe I could control crafting or some other stuff.

Point is that when I log in to game I want to have action oriented fun, not look some spreadsheet AH UI, or manage banks. Why FPS games are huge, because it's fast action. You don't need to spend half of game time micromanaging or doing tedious repeative action.

Originally posted by Siveria

Eve online for me, it had to be the most boring piece of shit I ever played, and the control was god aweful as well. To much menu clicking to get anything done. It just was not any fun to play. It was pretty to look at though ahd the music was kinda cool but those were the only good points when I played it. This is just my opinion though.

 Agree, Eve was the most boring game, ever. I had more fun with Excel than this game.

Mortal Online for been small pile of broke pieces. Nothing sems to work and it's boring grind in end.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Sasami

Social networking will be big thing. Game that won't be just thing you play but where you "live". I'm not talking facebook games but real MMO with access from different sources. You could access chats in website, have access to some systems from your mobile phone.

So more and more things to break immersion...?

And you think immersion sells, no it doesn't. Old games were build on basement that people wanted immersion and spend hours in-game, they don't. People play MMOs to feel social not to have second life. Besides immersion have always been broken since people used guild forums, voice chats and many other things to break it.

Instead of having players take care of these services they could excist in game. Think how much better it would be if there was twitter/facebook style system that you could access both in- and outside of game. Instead of trying push player inside game it should be opposite. Have player access parts of game outside.

Social networking will be big thing. Game that won't be just thing you play but where you "live". I'm not talking facebook games but real MMO with access from different sources. You could access chats in website, have access to some systems from your mobile phone.

While sounding interesting, this changes nothing. You won't have hybrid builds because in order them to work they need to redesign whole combat system and dungeons. So while you may have this choice it's superficial, because in order to raid you need certain talents and so on. WoWs problem is design flaws in higher raiding that basic drives much of it hardness from huge dmg and spam healing to counter it. And whole balance will be screwed by monk class that uses totally different combat mechanics, ffs they should move everyone to non-autoattack but they are too lazy. Prepare for even worse balance issues than there was with Death Knight. Prepare to face buggy content like it was during Catalysm. Blizzard haven't put money in WoW for last two years, it's milking it till end and we are the suckers who take it like candy. Prepare to face same crap in different wrapper, I lasted 3 months on Catalysm which ended almost constant playing from start. Wake up and smell the air, it's not roses!

One word: MAKO. Probaply worst drive system history of gaming.

ME2 was much better, more tighter package, much more focus on essential parts rather fluff.

Roll 4xD6 for date, roll 2xD6 for month, roll 3xD6 for year. Your bolter misses target!

Originally posted by Elikal

Bwuahahaha! That makes me laugh. Wishing Bioware listens. :D  *wipes tears from the eyes*

You mean the "we can't talk about this" company? When DA2 was flamed as big failure everywhere, all they admitted was "it had a different philosophy". lol. Yeah. Aristotle had a different philosophy, Descartes had a different philosophy, but DA2 just was a FAILGAME.

As to TOR... I expect a lot of harsh critique in the reviews once the game launches. While some parts seem to be really cool, it has way too many flaws, which just exist because they did NOT listen, because they totally ignored every substantial critique and their PR washed bla bla is already on par with Blizzard levels. Like Mr. Ericksons "we won't add alien races because players are too dumb to indentify with them". Bioware ALWAYS talked down on players, they NEVER give any real, detailled explanations of their thinking and planning - much on contraty to ANet and their very detailled explanations behind everything done in GW2. If you want to look how GOOD communication and explanation is look at ANets blogs VS those arrogant, non-caring PR washed Bioware statements!

When the same gender topic was first mentioned, TWO YEARS AGO, and still they "forgot" to add same gender characters! FORGOT! And then, when some dev accidentally spoils there are none in it, it takes Bioware EIGHT WEEKS just to say "we add them later", and when Mr.Erickson is asked, if he wants to explain the idea behind it by a journalist, he just answers: "No". End of debate, the Leader has spoken. If that is not arrogant, I don't know WHAT IS!

But as Blizzards WOW proofs, the old saying about the flies and the shit eating is still true. It will be a roaring financial success, just as WOW, but an equally mediocre and superfluous game in any term of bringing the genre ahead. Bioware is a bunch of arrogant, self-righteous folks if ever I have seen one!

 

The game hasn't even launched and I am ALREADY pissed about their behavior!

 Jeesh talk about trap 3 here. DA2 was different philosophy, try yourself do AAA game in 2 years! Fact that you don't get it means you don't get whole game business. And Anet, just lol. These are guys who pull smoke covers about having some miracle content system that allows them to make same money without monthly payments, bullshit yells rest of industry. Listening what loud mouths like you yell in forums isn't gonna make good product, proofs seen in Apple and new coming of Microsoft.

Because Intel is close to monopoly so they dry to milk customers dry. Intel might have bit faster processors in highest end (new i7 for example) but you shouldn't buy those because they have lot of air in price. Behind that AMD offers better money per performance than Intel when you count price of motherboard. If you gonna overclock AMD offers much cheaper Black Edition processors that aren't locked. All that crap that Intel processors are better comes from 90s when AMD wasn't that good. Also don't listen server people because they still keep up that crap. New Bulldozer processors seems to be lot better than anything Intel can throw. But never compare processor to processor, always count motherboard price in that, historically AMD ones with similiar specs have been cheaper than similiar spec Intel ones.

12.95 € per month in civilized countries that don't use some obscure body part measurements.

-J. Clarkson

Originally posted by Pieter

As for games, dual booting is extremely easy unless you can't install Windows on any PC. It's also been shown that in dual boot, equally equipped Windows laptops are outperformed by Macs running Windows. I can tell you for a fact that was true for Dragon Age. That's what you get when your parts are completely tuned to each other.

 

 Hahaa, try surfing other pages than cupertino mind control pages. Macs are just PCs crippled by Apple motherboard design. All other stuff is same so speed is same between equal components, only difference is price. You just pay extra for badge, like you pay when you buy VW instead of Skoda. And all that other junk you wrote might been case back in XP era but hardly anymore. Why GW2 isn't for Macs, same reason why LoL(League of Legends) dropped it, 5% market share.