Like many others, I too 'quit in disgust' from 'carebear, hand-holding' games like WoW a few years ago, in search of  a truly revolutionary approach to MMO gaming.

I wont go into a detailed description of how my view on sandbox, innovative gaming has changed, but suffice it to say that I don't believe any sandbox game can survive in the long-run without placing:

1)some limitations

2)some rules and

3)setting some goals.

A game is defined as such by the existence of an end goal and play-set rules. Depriving any of those two and branding that "sandbox", is like canceling the concept of gaming altogether.

MO won't have any different fate from Darkfail, if SV don't dramatically think of additional gameplay features to implement or re-design. What must be noted, however, is that the beta-testing process so far has been a lot more professional than DF's beta.

Originally posted by Slainh

Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.

I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.

Originally posted by rikilii

The point is to experience the content.  Not everybody playing WoW is gear-obsessed.  They want to play the game, have fun, experience a little challenge, and move the hell on.  That's tough to do when only 5% of players can actually access some of the content, EVER.  There's no reason to build a permanent wall between the majority of your players and the top content.

This is exactly what happened with the original Naxx, and with several of the raids in BC.  They're doing this to avoid the same thing all over again.

gosh, how hard is it to understand?

Top-content can be classified as top, only when it is harder compared to all other content. If you make all content accessible to everyone, then you have blown all distinguishing factors to pieces.

Blizzard hasn't managed to find a way to add content to its existing content; they simply swap high-end dungeons with new ones (now dumbed down for accessibility's sake), rinse and repeat.

Originally posted by Varny

I don't do it for gear... I don't it cause I enjoy the lore and I enjoy seeing things from Warcraft 3 come to life inside the game. I play because I have fun doing it and this is what I hate because in Star Wars Galaxies I did content because it was Star Wars. You wern't rewarded but other than a badge or a painting or something saying you did it. Why does everything have to be about getting something? Can't you just play because it is fun?

The problem with raiding in WoW is that it's not fun; the repetition and effort required to master a dungeon points to an end goal. And that is none other than the tier item drops.

So given the hassle getting a raid together is, who would do that at level 60 to experience BWL? Or would one form a raid just to skim through the content, without really being interested in defeating the bosses? By design, the raid dungeons in WoW were made to keep you occupied for a long, long time at cap level. You can go to Naxxramas at level 80, but in reality you're not getting anything out of the dungeon other than sight-seeing, because it is not challenging nor rewarding.

Originally posted by rikilii

Blizzard is doing something very smart here: Every time they release a new tougher raid and up the ante on the gear levels, they make it easier for casuals to get into yesterdays toughest dungeon.

 

The problem is, there is not point in going in those dungeons anymore; how many players are going to bother with Blackwing Lair now? Or Naxxramas?

One valid concern of the OP is that with each expansion, Blizzard is making all previous content obsolete. So in a way they are not really adding content, they are only changing the flag holder of "hardest content available" with each new raid dungeon.

I remember when BWL was the end game in WoW; it really meant something to have slain Nefarious. Then Naxx came and everybody moved there, making BWL a secondary experience.

TBC blew everything apart, over-simplified the game to a degree where every one could eventually get everything, etc, etc, with WoTLK I guess the same thing happened (never bothered with that, stopped way before that).

Blizzard has failed, in all these years of WoW's existence, to find a truly innovative way of adding to the experience of its MMO, instead of simply swapping older content with new.

Originally posted by skeaser

I feel the same as the OP and I think some are misunderstanding. It's not that MO is anywhere near CS in terms of gameplay, it's that, for some reason, when you mention FFA PVP you attract players who tend to think that the game is just a PvP orgy.

For an example see DF.

At least someone got it.

+1

I wasn't expressing any hate or personal judgment against MO; I was just voicing my concerns, namely that I read many posts of people who think Sandbox and FFA PvP means going around killing each other. And that is something MO should not turn into.

Originally posted by thinktank001

 

TBH,  there really isn't a lot of people waiting for that type of gameplay, but they are definitely very vocal and stubborn.   

perhaps you're right, they're not many but they are very vocal...

...that many people are waiting MO just to play another CS arena as an online battleground?

Originally posted by Joker2240

WoW Pre-BC was the best imo. Thanks for the read. 

agree. If only they had chosen a different approach to expanding the game....I might still be playing

Not much to comment really; he said it all in the beginning,

"Thus in Darkfall you are, as in EVE, a potential victim wherever you go, or else on the hunt for one."

This is the best description for a MMOFPS.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by CuddlyBunny

"What do you think about the actual MMOs panorama, and about the upcoming Mortal Online, in many ways similar to Darkfall ?"

Response to that made me giggle. :)

The answer to that is so arrogant and in denial of reality it's not even funny anymore. But we are used to it coming from Tasos anyway.

I'd like to see Tasos' response when MO delivers the final blow to Darkfall's dwindling population...

Originally posted by Hotjazz

 Imagine how successful Darkfall could have been if the skill/stat grind wasn't so huge.

Darkfall could never have been a success, because it has 'Amateur development'  written all over its code...

No matter how "rich" the features list of a game, each feature requires a minimum amount of polish in order to be enjoyable. DF failed on all levels, by both providing much less than advertised, and terribly implementing  the few things they did include in release.

If MO provides this starter list with decent amount of polish on each feature, I think it will have a successful launch.

Nowadays lack of content is labeled and sold as sandbox. Enjoy your new game!

So Texture Quality works? Is there a difference between low and max?

Just wondering if you can now set texture quality to maximum, enable AA and increase clipping range...

The only thing I would "fix" in VG is animations and armor/weapon models (they need a more commanding appearance, especially the helms).

Other than that, the game is one of the most comprehensive PvE games out there at the moment...

This is a nice list Trueth...wonder how VG would feel if all those things were kept as planned...

I particularly dislike the riftways, and the removal of Equipment Expertise. That would have given significantly more depth to the gameplay.

I've been playing VG on and off for about a year now. Fun game, a bit grindy perhaps at times, but overall best MMO experience for me at this point.

But I keep reading posts of old-time followers complaining about how much the game was dumbed down/ modified for release, in effect scrapping its original "revolutionary" features.

So what where those original "revolutionary" features that made it stand out from the rest of the MMO genre?