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Originally posted by Greenzor

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Originally posted by freejackmack

 

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Originally posted by Greenzor

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Originally posted by freejackmack

for the most part Perpetuums combat just works really well compared to any other mmo I have played. 
 

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Both EVE and Perpetuum's combat system don't stand out mostly because of their auto-attack. EVE involves a different kind of "thinking" (ship speed, ammunition size & speed, sig radius, angle) than PO (WASD). So it's a matter of personal taste.

 

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The auto attack even shows up in FPS games that is no issue. You also are generally limited to 1 or 2 attack types which is true for a lot of games so not an issue, but encourages grouping and team work and diversity is a plus; It's not always your dps that wins a battle.
Eve involves a LOT of spread sheet type of prep but Perpetuum is more organic. Hit dispersion replaces the need to be always moving to reduce damage but if you are fast it is much more fun to dodge in and out of targets range than to try to have greater relative transverse speed all the time. It works better and you have greater control over your vehicles direction and speed and that allows for some interesting tactics like jukeing so your opponent steps to far into your lock range.
But that is not all. Perpetuum adds line of sight which every other mmo has except for Eve and that alone makes Perpetuum combat work better. There is more to the battle than a bigger blob and mastering your sense of map awareness alone can win you battles in Perpetuum. It makes for a more enjoyable less frustrating experience compared to Eve's 2 dimensional tactic combat style. Paper beats rock and rock re-spawns to find all his expensive implants are toast simply because he did not know there was going to be a paper at the battle. It's a kind of pointless uninteresting combat system that leaves much to be desired.
But if you like it that is great. I simply am not so easily amused by Eve's paper, scissor, rock combat.

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FPS stands for First Person Shooter, I think you're a little confused here.
In Perpetuum you move your mech within a 2-dimensional xy axis plane. In EVE you approach, quite, Orbit, reach your optimal range, fly away etc within a 3-dimensional axis plane. Tacklers and speed tankers use to pilot their ship with their mouse in EVE, other ships are about looking for their optimal range using shortcuts. Each kind of ship fulfill its own role which by all means sounds more fun to me than "the bigger the better".

 

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However Perpetuum has the best combat and open world mechanics of the "point & click" mmo's buy far.

And yes Eve has ships that fill different rolls and no bigger is not better in Perpetuum but really you can use more than what is equipped on your vehicle to win a battle in Perpetuum. And piloting in Eve is way more frustrating than piloting a mech in Perpetuum simply because of the better control options.

"In EVE you approach, quite, Orbit, reach your optimal range, fly away etc within a 3-dimensional axis plane." Yeah that's all you can do and in an awkward physics engine with bad control options and no line of sight mechanics. Eve combat is 1 dimensional imo, 2 dimensional at best even though you can move in three dimensions it does little good in combat. You either have the stats and equipment to beat someone or you don't. It's not any more complicated than that in Eve when you really examine it. Just like the millions of fantasy games except with boring pve.

Perpetuum has more to it than just orbiting at optimal range and flying away. It has more depth that allows for style of play flavors and tactics that you will not find in Eve's combat system. Bigger is better is in fact what Eve combat amounts to as well as paper, scissor, rock combat. You understand this the first time your alliance gets hot-droped by 2 motherships and all your alliance can only stare cloaked as they wipe out your outposts.

It's not to say Eve is not a good game with good features but Eve combat which arguably is the most important part is lame.

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Originally posted by Greenzor

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Originally posted by freejackmack

for the most part Perpetuums combat just works really well compared to any other mmo I have played. 
 

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Both EVE and Perpetuum's combat system don't stand out mostly because of their auto-attack. EVE involves a different kind of "thinking" (ship speed, ammunition size & speed, sig radius, angle) than PO (WASD). So it's a matter of personal taste.

 

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The auto attack even shows up in FPS games that is no issue. You also are generally limited to 1 or 2 attack types which is true for a lot of games so not an issue, but encourages grouping and team work and diversity is a plus; It's not always your dps that wins a battle.

Eve involves a LOT of spread sheet type of prep but Perpetuum is more organic. Hit dispersion replaces the need to be always moving to reduce damage but if you are fast it is much more fun to dodge in and out of targets range than to try to have greater relative transverse speed all the time. It works better and you have greater control over your vehicles direction and speed and that allows for some interesting tactics like jukeing so your opponent steps to far into your lock range.

But that is not all. Perpetuum adds line of sight which every other mmo has except for Eve and that alone makes Perpetuum combat work better. There is more to the battle than a bigger blob and mastering your sense of map awareness alone can win you battles in Perpetuum. It makes for a more enjoyable less frustrating experience compared to Eve's 2 dimensional tactic combat style. Paper beats rock and rock re-spawns to find all his expensive implants are toast simply because he did not know there was going to be a paper at the battle. It's a kind of pointless uninteresting combat system that leaves much to be desired.

But if you like it that is great. I simply am not so easily amused by Eve's paper, scissor, rock combat.

It is not a fantasy dungeon raiding lvling kind of game that WoW has made popular.

Perpetuum is, imo, the best of it's type. Eve of coarse is close in that econ and trade + crop structures are pretty much the end game content with pvp and some difficult pve here and there.

Perpetuum and games like it (Eve) do not have quick pvp matches that you can jump into for a bit of simple fun or class based dungeon raiding from what I have seen even though you can repair others and get tank skills sort of; there are no dungeons with bosses that drop gear for progression to the next higher dungeon; you would lose everything the next time you get blown up anyway. That imo is what it lacks; not because it is less of a game with out that type of pve but I simply miss it sometimes when I'm mindlessly grinding for cash to fund my pvp adventures.

Games like this tend to forget that you, at some point need to do pve for cash and loot for your industry and getting money for pvp; and the pve content feels more of a means to an end rather than a fun part of the total game experience; and that to me is a shame; it's like saying look at all the cool new features we brought to mmo's but you can't have these features that millions already like; or you have to do this content that really is not that fun, to get to the cool new features. Sorry, to bad:(

To me it is frustrating because I think with a little better forethought you could have a no brainer successor to the old generations of mmo's; the game to go to for the next ten years. Simply because you did not turn your back on a good game mechanic when you wanted to be different but had no better idea in that area; but instead you just let it be a sort of annoyance; and no one wants to be in an unpleasent mental state when they are playing a game.

I don't think I am the only one that feels this way. Some of the games that I feel need work in pve areas are Darkfall Eve and Perpetuum; there are probably more but i have not played them and I have to say that Peretuum stands out as the better of the three. Darkfall has fps combat style but imo lacks in other areas that are needed for my enjoyment that Perpetuum excells at like the skill system which Eve also lacks in.

Perpetuum is awesome for the improvments over Eve in combat and skill systems.

But the reason I like Perpetuum most is the strategy that the combat system allows for. There is no warp to zero like in Eve there is a thrill you get from the chase and intell plays an enjoyable roll in the combat.

The dancing you do in Perpetuums' combat you will never get in Eve type combat systems and for the most part Perpetuums combat just works really well compared to any other mmo I have played. Maybe world of tanks has a better combat system but World of Tanks is a FPS game; Perpetuum has the open world experience benifit that draws you in. You can't chase someone very far in World of Tanks; but if Perpetuum was a FPS game it would do well to adopt the type of mechanics World of Tanks has. However for an open world mmo Perpetuum has really great combat.

I recomend you give Perpetuum a try for sure.

I'm on board. I'm so sick of the millions of crappy fantasy games. 1 crappy Sci-Fi game is worth 100 fantasy games imo.

The fact that I get cool Sci-Fi armor to wear instead of dresses and hair bands is reason enough!

But please next game I want to see more spaceships; can never have enough spaceships:)

Ok the fix for me ws to find the directory for the install and delete after uninstall.

Great game, lots of fun!

Segregation sucks. I remember when Microsoft said we could play 360 games on our pc with our console friends. Have not seen that yet :(

Like the way this is looking. I can't wait.

Originally posted by Arakane

...is that it is an mmo. I think it would be much more awesome as rts- period,type game.

What a thing to post an an mmo forum lol. GTFO!

No really though I think more game types should be mmo's other than rpg's. So i give this game a thumbs up I'm gonna get it when I can.

Ya so loved the game for 30 min's. Loged off and no problems at all. Go to play a little later and can not log on due to unidentified error. I made it to lvl1 that's it lol. Everything they tell you to do for launcher problems does absolutely nothing.
Typical EA. They are not big bug fixers.
It's a real shame :(

This game is probably the best game out right now in the areas of combat and pvp control points mining is alright as mining goes industry is nice plenty to do and it does not take as long as eve to max a skill out in my experience. UI is fine works for the the game really well imo. PVE update should be great. So imo score is about right.

O and another thing, developing for computers has come a long way, to where it is easy enough to create a game, if you know what you are doing, that runs on to days 6+ core machines and not have to be some kind of gineus. Just make sure your mem leaks are fixed and it is easy to fit a game in 8 gigs of ram and 1 gig of vram. I mean we have beasts compared to comps just 6-7 years ago. It aint too hard to get a game to run on todays PC's.

I don't get why you would think PC's are on the way out. A PC will always be more powerful than a console because it's just the way it is I guess. As soon as a console gets to market another more powerful videocard or processor  comes out.

Though to be fare if a decent mmo like Perpetuum or Jumpgate came out on a console that could play them well I would buy the console just for the ability to play that mmo. But everyone knows some more awsome mmo game would then come out that would make the consoles of the world freeze up, thus forcing my hand fork out cash for a computer system that could handle it.

That's why PC's are never leaveing and it has nothing to do with porn cause you can get that on a console in your cave too.

Buy the way I'm a controler man and love my flight sticks too. So get some decent flight stick games out there for me devs. JGE hopfully.

It's about time they realised that wow's retarded stingy drop rate and looting system is not the way to go. I say good idea but to be fair JGE devs came up with that idea first. They just have not released JGE yet. I say loot machanics should not cause fatigue. There should be a fast progression to the top. Just make your game fun to play even after you have all the best gear and your good. I think world of tanks is the best example of fun combat, we just need that combat system in a persistent world like we have come to expect for our monthly fee.

I like this game too. It's got the best combat that I have ever seen in a point and click game and that is what will make this game shine over the years. The combat is right on the mark so pvp is a blast and owning an outpost is rewarding in industrial bonuses but also in pvp action. I never had so much fun.

If you are trying to play this game for it's pve content only, keep in mind that the content for pve is light at the moment as the dev focus is pvp. If your an indy guy come remote rep and energy transfer or if you are a political guy come nexus mod your corpies in pvp. PvP is the most fun in this game so do not miss out on it.

Future: There is talk of terraforming gamma islands and upgrading outposts. Also deep artillery game play and possibly mines are being talked about.
Give it a try with the 15 day trial if you have not already.

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Originally posted by Creslin321

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Originally posted by Torrent41

...
Getting to the point. While I see your arguments, I believe the reason we focus so much on levels is not because of the levelling system itself but because of the huge power gap between one level and the next; I'm specifically referring to the more recent MMOs.  The problem is, most recent MMOs not only make it ridiculously easy to level (so it almost seems worthless), but also provide HUGE power gains per level. In WoW for example, the diminishing returns on hit chance against players above you is significant. After 2 levels, for every level they are above you you gain 11% chance to miss. Not to mention the huge HP gains.
 
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COMPLETELY agree.  People always focus on levels, but the problem is really the fact that a level 30 is ridiculously stronger than a level 20.  Levels are just a mechanic that shows progression, that's it.  They are almost necessary in a class based system.  What is NOT necessary is making someone 10 levels higher than you into a demigod.

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Yes demigods are a result of a failed level based progression system. There is no reason why a lvl 10 should not be able to help take down a lvl 50, even if he does very little damage he is helping and should get rewarded accordingly.

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Originally posted by Isane

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Originally posted by freejackmack

Leveling has been in almost every mmo I have played except Eve and Perpetuum. And even Eve and Perpetuum have a sort of leveling mechanic. Leveling has been a mmo cliché for far too long imo.
The number 1 reason leveling needs to be replaced is because it divides a games players and separates players into different tiers that are able to work together or even against each other. You see this in every mmo and really get the sense of it when as a new player you try to attack something or another player several levels higher than you and you have nothing in the way of choices to defend yourself. Allods tries to alleviate this problem to some extent in the 1st pvp area with emblems that 1 shot players over 29, but this does not lend to what I consider interesting battles. 1 or 2 shotting people does not add to a tab target type pvp game play.
I think it is better when players have options other than to flee for your life over and over. There should be some back and forth trading of blows there should be some time to react and counter attack and strategically chose from your options.
There is a division that I think is artificial and leaves an after taste that I can't shake from game mechanics that rely on levels.
We need a replacement for leveling game play. That is what developers need to be working on. Funcom has a good start on this with The Secret World imo. Gear and the journey or experience you get from playing should be more important than leveling and grinding out "xp" to get to max level just so you can compete or get to and end game content.
I think Eve and Perpetuum give you a good alternative game play where even low "level" new players can have a roll in battle as scouts and what not but the in game mechanics fail to directly reward such game play with tangible income to support themselves. We need to be solving these problems more completely.
I think there needs to be a focus on creating mechanics like territorial control that reward all participants monetarily and with other rewards that make the endeavor worth while.
Many games have this like Eve, Allods and Perpetuum but along with leveling mechanics and this is not conducive to fun battles where the higher level is wining simply because he is a higher level and not because of his choices in battle.
Shooter mmo's are the future because of the fun factor but also because there is no need for levels. Your skill and your learning speed replace leveling.
So leveling I think should not be a considered mechanic in the mmo's of the future.
Do you agree?

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You really have not got a clue and I strongly disagree; MMOs are about longevity and progression as a core basis. You cannot afford to develop vast worlds with content when the content does no longer mean anything.
Hop in and out Arena game are just that they need a small grid to play in........
Think about the one sentence I have provided here. If you want Immediate self satisfaction go play the correct genre.
 

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I think you can use space in an mmo more effectively if it has value at the start and as you progress. Perpetuum does a fine job of using space well imo. It was built on the idea that Eve was built on, where resources can be fought over and space can be valued for the resource and for the pve that provides tangible reward and gives an area value.

If you are purely into pve and consuming content then it is also beneficial to have a mechanic in place that allows a low level player to participate and be able to help a high lvl group out; something like mentoring would do.

What I would like to see is a superficial lvling mechanic that only allows access to better gear or one that gives you a lvl based on the gear that you have obtained. Jumpgate Evolution was going to have the lvl dictate the gear and that is fine as long as low levels can add damage in a battle and get rewarded accordingly.

You seem to be set on a perception that is fixed on the idea that there is only 1 way to make a progression mechanic in an mmo. I think we need to try some thing more in line with the concept of mmo's and get as many people progressing together as possible. Do not artificially separate people with a WoW cloned progression mechanic.

I think that clarifies my views a bit more. :)

If by "immediate self satisfaction" you mean fun then yes I would like that too please. :) I think playing together is the main source of fun in an mmo imo. All too often guilds will be split unable to enjoy playing together through the lvling process because of lvl gaps and that is not an optimal progression mechanic for a massively multi player type game. I think it's about time for an unboxing of the tired old WoW clone lvl progression mechanic.

Let us think on the outside of the box for the future of mmo's.

Leveling has been in almost every mmo I have played except Eve and Perpetuum. And even Eve and Perpetuum have a sort of leveling mechanic. Leveling has been a mmo cliché for far too long imo.

The number 1 reason leveling needs to be replaced is because it divides a games players and separates players into different tiers that are able to work together or even against each other. You see this in every mmo and really get the sense of it when as a new player you try to attack something or another player several levels higher than you and you have nothing in the way of choices to defend yourself. Allods tries to alleviate this problem to some extent in the 1st pvp area with emblems that 1 shot players over 29, but this does not lend to what I consider interesting battles. 1 or 2 shotting people does not add to a tab target type pvp game play.

I think it is better when players have options other than to flee for your life over and over. There should be some back and forth trading of blows there should be some time to react and counter attack and strategically chose from your options.

There is a division that I think is artificial and leaves an after taste that I can't shake from game mechanics that rely on levels.

We need a replacement for leveling game play. That is what developers need to be working on. Funcom has a good start on this with The Secret World imo. Gear and the journey or experience you get from playing should be more important than leveling and grinding out "xp" to get to max level just so you can compete or get to and end game content.

I think Eve and Perpetuum give you a good alternative game play where even low "level" new players can have a roll in battle as scouts and what not but the in game mechanics fail to directly reward such game play with tangible income to support themselves. We need to be solving these problems more completely.

I think there needs to be a focus on creating mechanics like territorial control that reward all participants monetarily and with other rewards that make the endeavor worth while.

Many games have this like Eve, Allods and Perpetuum but along with leveling mechanics and this is not conducive to fun battles where the higher level is wining simply because he is a higher level and not because of his choices in battle.

Shooter mmo's are the future because of the fun factor but also because there is no need for levels. Your skill and your learning speed replace leveling.

So leveling I think should not be a considered mechanic in the mmo's of the future.

Do you agree?

wow you can even see the tred on that dudes boots :D

Originally posted by mmoguy43

"Rather than spending four to five years behind closed doors working on a game that may or may not do well, they’ll release a fun small game, which if people like, could very possibly grow into something resembling an MMO. I could see the general idea of Vorp! as an MMO."

This is a great and smart approch they are taking with thier games and hopefully other companies will do the same instead of big gambles we have see in the past.

 

Agreed!

Wow nice Sci-Fi! Me likes :)