Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by crunchyblack

Ryzom

Darkfall

Mortal Online

Fallen Earth

 [ *snip* ]

So basically what im saying is, support the indie sandbox mmorpgs, or STFU about sandboxes.....that is all. 

Darkfall/Mortal Online: full PvP.  I have zero interest in PvP.  That rules them out immediately.

Fallen Earth: I have to admit I may have erred here - I had seen it was post-apocolyptic and had a rather loud trailer so just assumed right away that it too was PvP-heavy without researching any further.  Thank you for prodding me into a second look.

Ryzom: ok, this one might end up embarassing me a little.  I had honestly never heard of it.  Researching it a little, it does look interesting.  There are a few alarm bells (like saying that the best resources are available in PvP zones) that tell me that I probably wouldn't be happy there long-term, but on the other hand, the description of the dynamic ecology gives me geeky goosebumps so I may give it a try anyway.

I don't normally thank people rage against a forum, but in this case, you've given exactly the sort of feedback I needed to link threads of my wandering imagination with worlds I have not yet visited.  So ... thank you.

 

Ahh yes, the picky gamer.   Will subscribe to a themepark on the fly, but offer a sandbox (which they so desperately want) with full loot pvp*gasp*, and they will avoid it like the plague.

You sir are why we will not see many more sandbox games.  You want a game uber talored to your specific template of what a sandbox should include, despite while you may whave thought this over a bit, a development company has researd greatly into.  Full loot Pvp is necessary for games like DF and MO, yet you rule them out without even trying based on your pre-concieved notion of what a full loot pvp game is.

Im playing DF right now, the full loot pvp is not what you think because loot and gear doesnt work like it does in wow, get it?

So sir, please get out of the sandbox discussion, go back to your mmorpg "safe zone" whatever game that may be. Leave the new ideas and new gaming concepts for those who are not afraid to step outside of their gaming comfort zone.

You really think full loot pvp included wow style gear that is uber rare and lasts forever?

Oh and this and my previous post are not forum rage, sorry if my strong language and unapologetic approach has caused you to step outside your forum comfort zone....seems to be an issue with people these days, unwilling to even take a peek at something out side their safety-zone worldview (on any subject).

Enjoy your year 2000 style themepark.  Its whats for dinner for the next 10 years as well, it seems.

Damn, im like a week into my DF subscription, finding myself quite bored in game.  I was about to give MO a try.

Im sorry if this has already come up, as i didnt feel like reading 3 pages of posts....

I love this topic and the OP......where are all the sandboxes?

Well There is:

Ryzom

Darkfall

Mortal Online

Fallen Earth

All are made by smaller companies (everyone hate SOE/Blizzard or any other mega gaming company remember)

All are in various phases of death, due to lack of support.  Not saying that they are or will be dead, just that they are all STRUGGLING.

This is a classic case of gamers wanting sooo bad for indie sandbox games, then, when they dont get the wow stability, or the instant gratification of theme park activities, they uninstall.

So what the larger companies, and other small companies see..... these games not doing well..... they see how they better get cracking on their mega theme park EQ style mmorpg, since those will make them and their investors a return, whereas sandboxes will not.

And rest assured, the half asses, as most would call it, releases of the above mentioned games, and various issues are due to the lack of investment.   See when they get desperate for money, and ivestors threaten to pull out or sue, their choice is to scrap the whole project and go under, or immediately release (or as soon as possible) in order to genereate revenue and continue work.

So all you folks out there claiming "if only they would make a sandbox" get ready for nothing of the sort if these current sandboxes, and the few that are in development, fail due to gamers saying they want sandboxes (i dont know is it the trendy thing now?) but voting with their wallets for the themepark.

All of the games i mentioned (aside from mortal online, have yet to play it, but have played all the others and subscribed at least a little) are VERY playable, and offer something diffrent from WOW type games....yet they struggle.

Put your money where your mouth is, its the ONLY thing a business cares about, if you dont tell them with money what you want, they will give you whatever you are willing to pay for.  And that is currently low risk cookie cutter wow style theme parks (which im not against by the way)

The only wat to change the trend is to do it yourself.

However we all know that the sandbox crowd is a very small nice crowd and most major developers are not going to funnel hundreds of millions of dollars to make a blockbuster sandbox, that will most likely have under 90K subs...its not worth it to them....which is why you really only have indie sandboxes.  The indie companies are taking the risk, and are paying dearly for it right now.  You guys are the ones proving to the smart money that sandboxes dont work.

Remember how many shitty, barely running themepark mmorpgs people flocked to with their wallets before wow polished their game up?  Thats right, just about all of em.  Results: more development of what made money and better quality.

 Deal with what comes with the idie developers since its not been proven that sandboxes can generate enough revenue to support the investment needed for blockbuster sandbox mmorpgs.

So basically what im saying is, support the indie sandbox mmorpgs, or STFU about sandboxes.....that is all. 

You may ignore and continue your flame war over your various definitions of what a sandbox is.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by Gadzy

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

 

That's bs, most players macro their way up through AFK swimming, macro AFK Spell Casting, macro Sword&Parry, etc. And a skills do take a long time to increase.

If you don't macro, you're in for an even worse grind.

Source: Your ass

Isn't that the same for your "There is no need to macro"?

 

And the source comes from having played DarkFall since launch and can be confirmed through a quick look around the forum. Just leave....

There is no need to macro.

If you don't enjoy the AI in this game, odds are you are looking at things as a grind. I personally did not macro/AFK anything at any point and I had no issues getting competitive in a couple months of casual play. If I hadn't enjoyed this process I can imagine it would have been a challenge convincing myself just to log in, let alone hit some mobs for an hour or two.

If you don't enjoy the "journey" in Darkfall and just want to be on a level playing field in your first week or whatever, then it's very difficult to appreciate this game for what it is. 

There isnt a NEED to macro, and despite i afk swam, for under 8 hours while i slept, for 2 night *GASP* it amounted to nothing.  I have never macroed, hacked, or purchased gold, i prefer to play my game. 

However, you soon realize how quickly skills progress, and the realize how much is really involved.  THis is a heavy grind pve game, make no mistake about that, despite endgame PVP and constant ganking (if you near the noob areas at least)

I dont mind the skill grind, because i levels as i play, i do however, strongly dislkie the harvesting system.  It requires you to click to start harvesting, then watch as it continually harvests untill your stamina is done, the node is empty, or your tool breaks.  So, if your in a safe place, you can AFK (is that illegal during harvesting?) for 7-15min, return, lather rinse repeat.  This has the excitement level of x-treme knitting or low-impact gardening.  This is where macroers have the advantage.  When im playing i dont want to sit and do nothing but watch my stamina drain (i thought anything afk was illegal in game right?)

What would nip this macroing issue in the butt, would be to increase skill gained PER HIT against stronger enemies, and figure out a way to do the same with harvesting, but not just with skill but also amount of resource gained.

The journey is fun, however, doing the same journey, for months at a time (more if your employed as i am) loses it luster.  This is why you see people macro skilling eachother in cities so much, and see hordes of macro resourcers within tower range.  It wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt rubbed in your face so often that you are weak, being one of the most PRO stong charcter ganking weaker character games ive seen.

Im kind of toward the end of my trial.

I have gotten over the controls, i havent even really changed the bindings....i just got use to it.  Controls are no longer an issue.

I have gotten over the "i want to make this class" frame of mind.  I level everything i can when im fighting mobs. 

I have gotten over the stomach turning amount of grind.  Once you realize whats involved with magic and weapon skills, but especially magic, it can really turn away people.  I understand what ill be doing a majority of my PVE in game, i am over it.

I am over the full loot "cant compete for MONTHS" pvp.  Most of the loot is 100% trash anyway.  Most of what youll get looted are stacks of arrows, gold, potions, and any reagents you have on you.  All of which is relativly cheap and easy to obtain.  Still its a pain in the ass, especially when you cant run, and have no way to defend yourself, and youve been farming for more than 20min.

That said, there is a lot to get over in this game, there are a lot of things that will fustrate and irritate the modern mmorpg'er.  The first 10 hours of play in this game will break the will of weaker players for sure.

What may or may not keep me from actually subscribing, is well, the downtime in game.

Im actually having a fair amount of fun, grinding on noob mobs near the startertown (yes still)  however getting involved with crafting and harvesting goes as follows:  find something to harvest, click on it, afk for 7min, return, click again, return in 7min, return and move to the next node, click, return in 7min ect.  Without a illegal macro, your going to be bored out of your mind for the thousands of hours of harvesting youll need to craft.

I have tried to explore new areas, find the noobs of hostile races to gank, or attempt to.  After about 45min of running, not seeing another person or mob the ENTIRE time, i get bored, click the town recall skill, and go back to the goblins/kobolds/zombies/trolls in the starter area....still.   I know i was skilling run, but damn, there is a serious lack of action in this game, at least untill your pvp ready.

See in game, youll be laughed at "go back to wow" or "go play a gay themepark".  Sad thing is, people in themeparks are having fun playing, your either macro skilling (illegally) or manually skilling, wishing you had a macro so you could do something else entertaining.

So be aware, prepare for either cheating or skilling in the nooby area for MONTHS, spending most of that time skilling your rest skill, skilling your run skill, or skilling your harvest/craft skills.  All of which have huge amounts of downtime.

However, i do like the skill system, i like the epicness of the game, and since its so diffrent, it makes me want to stick with it.  Still unsure on if ill buy it.  Ive almost considerd looking for some 3rd party macros, just so i can harvest and not be locked to my computer every 7min for hours at a time.

So what, i just buy it and it gives me a key, or do i have to redownload the whole game.  I would like to assume a key is given with the option to download, however ive never used impulse, and aventurine is kind of an odd company.

If i pay $14 for a key and have a month sub, im all in, other wise i let the trial run its course.

Just got of my first night of the trial. 

I was very dissapointed. 

Ill give it a few more tries, but the first day is a very fustrating day in this game, no matter how much mmorpg or fps experience you have.

There are many little things that DF makes needlessly fustrating.  Even after you get the controls and combat down.

If your looking for pvp, your going to have to do a hell of a lot of grinding, macroing,a nd afk skilling to get your character there. 

Try it out yourself, but you need to really want to like this game make it past the first day controls and community.

Tomorrow ill roll another race and forget about magic ( i wanted to make a mage).  Apparently theres two paths to take in this skill sandbox, leveling everything and going defender. which cant use magic but gets other bonuses.  This is usually the case for games that dont define a class and lets players choose, everyone levels everything, which isnt fun if your not interested in anything but a mage.

Its AoE, only its live online, whats so confusing?

Oh and they decided to use the least modern textures they could make apparently.  I dont remember the RTS AoE's looking so saturday morning cartoonish.

Looks like a chinese F2P knockoff to be honest.

So Darkfall is all about endless skill grinding?

Wasnt this suppose to be THE PVP game?

Will i basically be a source of looted income for vets, as i spend a year+ playing on an "i have a job" time schedule?

Im not an emotional pvper that gets mad over ganks, however never standing a chance means running and avoiding pvp, which is something i dont want in a game.

Also, my uneducated opinion on class free skill based games, is that the game plan is to level up everything.  My fear is that these vets will be along the lines of applying their tank buff , unleashing a mage nuke, hitting me with a ranger CC, then comming at me with a 2h sword.  There are limits to what can be skilled right?  I learned in Ryzom that sandbox character progression means doing it all, everyone is the same hybrid class of everyhting.

Just curious before i download the trial.

Also whats there as far as non endgame material.  Anything besides questing, grinding skill/crafting and pve dungeons?

And is crafting a must, it is very rare that im interesting in crafting, and being forced to usually results in me gradually losing intrest in the game.

Enjoy the internet, as it is now, as much as you can while you can.

And be careful what you send over the internet/phones.  It ALL is being logged and you never know when that text to your frat buddy that uses the n-bomb in good humor will come around to bite you in the ass (or worse).  Same goes for in game chat.  It ALL is logged and kept indefinately.

There is no more anonymity in the internet.  See blizzards push for real names to be used when posting on their forum. 

All small steps that add up to one giant leap towards...............

Enjoy this all while you can.

Oh and any company that proclaims to be "not evil" is evil to the bone.  Googles efforts to assist a repressive communist government in censoring the internet, what was at one point the epitome of free speech and freedom (the internet not china), speaks volumes of their true beliefs, and willingness to screw over others for cold hard cash.

You think google, with all their experience with censorship in china, is going to put it all to waste? Thats an investment to them.  They will do it, in secret if they have to, for any govenment that will pay them.  Even our own.  And it isnt just censorship, its data-mining the civilians.  They have it all and its all for sale.

Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is EQ2 extended?

Originally posted by Honeymoon69

Orders were made OP on purpose to make more ppl play Orders and there was no rock paper scissor.

 

 Watching people complain about this games class imbalances and faction imbalances amounts to simply crying that they lost.  play 5 scenarios or RvR on 3 diffrent days.  Each day/scenario will have a diffrent "imbalance issue"  this is 100% dependant on which side wins, and what classes they have.

For instance, on destruction, we get stomped in RvR for hours.  Engineers on order are OP is why, "they are better than the magus anyway"....  Not only that but they have better healers and more utility. Order is OP by design.

Next day, destruction rules the RvR, it is because we have more spike DD classes and order cannot compete, destruction is therefore OP and order cannot compete.

Now a scenario, lucky you team order your against an all DoK destruction team, you rape them, order is OP, you see that same DoK group in RvR, and your whole warband is dead before you can cry that DoK are OP.

This over and over and over, if you lose the other team is OP (or hackers!), end of story, no other reasons, its all class imbalance.  Why people dont bother to group up in balanced groups (where shamans are not self healing DD's Mr.OP) ? its easyer to bitch about your loss being a design flaw.

Oh yeah, i forgot, bright wizards and sorcs are OP if you dont kill them, since they have zero survivability and CC and aoe DD.  So yeah let a mage class sit there and aoe bomb you and they are very op (you kill them when you see them problem solved)

fcking every class and every faction is OP (god im so sick of the OP class talk, not just here but every game it seems)

warhammer is not a F2P game in any way.

i cannot understand why the f2p fanatics take anything that is offerd for free and slap the f2p label on it, cheer and high five their free loading friends like they accomplished something.......

trial lasts for 10 levels, you cant even equip the good equipment during this time, you cannot move off the one map.

f2p would entail that the whole game is free, or everything is availiable free untill a certain point.  warhammes trial is neither.

this is still a p2p game by all accounts.

however you can have a good deal of fun in the trial.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The OP has no idea what he is talking about either...... the reason his shaman was indestructable some times, and unable to do anything others is based on his teamates spam healing him or letting him die.  Class imbalances are non existant when your in a large group, play as a group its how its done right.

T1 is packed, T2 is packed as well (unless you were on a rinky-dink server) T3 i hear isnt so active, but T4 i hear is very active.  Most paying players attempt to get to 40 asap as to enjoy the active t4 activites.

OP....this isnt a 1vs1 wow type pvp game, oh and if you were the self healing DD shaman, as you describe being, then you were a crappy shaman, hands down.  Tally WAR up on the games you failed and and thus hate please.

Originally posted by Fritoman

With a reported release date sometime in 2013 why in the world would you stress about getting info now on it?   Cya in late 2012...and lets hope the Myans were wrong :)

I mean the myans couldnt even figure out the wheel....

Tight lips usually means major descisions have yet to be made....they might have the engin and the art ready to go, but havent decided on the rest, if you know what i mean.

And yes, why overhype a game so far from any reasonable launch date?  Worked wonders for darkfall.

I have a feeling this is going to be more FPS than MMORPG, and that i think might not be a good thing.  Just a hunch though.

Im one of those "ADHD children hopping around in game" adults.  Its a freakin game, you may or may not be an elf, what did you expect to happen when you add jumping to a game?

And they make FFA PVP servers for people like you, dont like the way someone is acting, kill them.

If this game makes it, has jumping, and a FFA PVP server, youll find me there jumping around like a jackass, because im in a game not the office.

AoC is by far the best open world pvp and small fight pvp game out.

So everyone who clicked the OP's links mysteriously gets hacked?  Is that how the game generally plays out?

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by augustgrace

I would prefer to see Skaven/Undead added as a third faction.

Though I don't think there is any chance of EA pouring more money into the game at this point.

Maybe after the game goes f2p and they add the cash shop.

 I see this a lot (as they have been saying for a year now), and I am somewhat ignorant on cash shops, but what exactly is a cash shop going to sell in a pvp game? Especially one based on open RvR,

I know a some sell different areas of the game (dungeons and the like), perhaps gear (?) and pets.  I don't see selling these as viable to to Warhammer (that being a way to make money in an RvR game) unless i am missing something, which i probably am ; )

What an extreme stretch to think that war's trial = f2p or a partial skip[ toward f2p.

Its a trial of 1-10, on one map, unable to use the best gear in that area (T1).  Couldnt be further from f2p.

Keep on wishing though.

Originally posted by laokoko

Is it just the forums?

All I see is people will stop posting on the official forum, and find an unofficial fan site to post.

 This.

However their nerdbook attempt will probably be hilarious to watch as it pans out.

perma-death......the ultimate time sink