Not sure what the OP, or the people who seriously respond are smoking, i hope they brought enough for everyone...

All this drivel aside, i would liken Atlanticas cash shop to more of a gambling type endeavour.

A decent amount of their cash shop items are more or less slot machine pulls.  You want the wings or mount or whatever, you buy the box, you open it and get potions or scrolls.  You have odds to win what you want, however your only purchasing the CHANCE to obtain it.  Lets be real here, nobody spends the money (what is it $15 for on of these) hoping to get some scrolls.  They buy it for the advertised cool item.

You hear about people spending upwards of $50 and not getting the item they origionally intended to purchase.

So all this "im a freshman in law school so i know law" conversation aside, this game features underage gambling.

Argue that angle since this XYZ crap is retarded, RMT is how they make money, you cannot RMT though 3rd parties (is implied)  your arguments that RMT means they can not have a cash shop reminds me of that coke zero commercial where cocacola guys  are talking to a lawyer about patent infringment, because zero taste so much like the real thing, or whatever.

Are you suggesting Ndoors lawyers up and sue themselves for damages inccured from their own cash shop sales?  Yeah didnt think so.

Dont buy gold from framers who obtain it at the expense of others game experience.  He got what he deserved.

Originally posted by lordpenquin

You've all heard "this game is a rip-off of that game" before and most of the time it's just a silly argument with no basis.

However in Perpetuum's case, how are they not being sued by CCP?  I was in beta and not only was almost the entire GUI taken directly from eve, they had the SAME EXACT symbols for the buttons!   There's a difference between being "inspired" by and just plain ripping off.   I felt like I was playing eve.   It's like that case where white wolf sued sony pictures for making Underworld.   They listed hundreds of exact instances where that movie was a total rip off of world of darkness.  CCP could do the same thing. 

I don't know if the game is any good or not, but if you're going to steal a GUI, at least have the decency to move it around a bit and for Crom's sake make your own graphics!

{Mod Edit}

Even if people do consider it a ripoff, im glad its here, i always wanted to play a game like EvE, but didnt like spaceship, and didnt like the fact that i would be jumping in new to a game that has been around so long, when its time based progression.

Its a great game for anyone who missed out on EvE, or just dont like the EvE style and community.

{Mod Edit}

Originally posted by trozyxxx

Picked this up just yesterday, only thing I could moan about is starting and deleting toons, Im totaly unsure what skills to pick and it all comes from one pool of skill points, deleting a toon cost (im told) 2 days worth of skill points. Wish I could just wipe out yesterday and start again.

Still just a few hours into the game I finished the last tutorial had my 3 (crappy) bots and found myself knowing roughly what I was doing and in an even fight with some npc bots, had to run away at one point :)

I like it so far, yeah its amazingly like Eve but I dunno, still different. Bots look great, los, terrain make it a nice game for me

Well there is an account reset, you get back all EP this way, you can only do it once within like 40 days rom acct creation.

Everyone was in your boat, everyone messed up, thats why they did it. however its a pain to go though.  You need to delete all your characters, and if you dont have the EP to do so you must wait.  Also its a very good idea to take all of your belongings and store them with a friend or corporation, but a new player wont lose much.

Like they say in EvE, get yourself a good corporation to join.  THey can help you out and give you some sandbox type activities.

Corporation runs to beta island (pvp area) are a lot of fun.  Most corps that do this are either completely pvp combat focused or, well like a corporation.  We mine resources (best resources and at a higher density are on beta) while people transport the mined good to a safe zone, with protection from combat robots.

However if your only a day in, and you havent spent more than a couple hundred EP, no need to delete and reset. Unless your attributes are messed up (well balanced attributes are nerf, as are say combat focused and industry focused combined ect) or you spend all your starting EP on things that have no effect on what you want to do, or you simply ant to change which megacorporation (faction) you belong to theres no point to really go though the account reset.

Originally posted by syntax42

I could not get into EVE.  The lack of control over your ship annoyed me.  The learning curve was frustrating.  The game components that they threw at you from character creation onward without explaining them made me feel lost.  For example, the factions and races were not explained at character creation.  I think being in open space with no chance for strategic combat made it feel boring.  You just watched your ship fly in circles (why not just hold still?) and shoot while being shot at.  It was more like I was watching a game than playing it.

 

How well does this game compare? 

Does it introduce the game elements slow enough that I can figure out what to do? 

Does it let me control my robot instead of watch it perform combat?  I don't mind an auto-attack, as long as I can move around manually and really make strategic decisions.

Is this easier to get into than EVE?

Any other comments or advice?

Controlling your robot strategically is vital in this game.  Line of Sight (LOS) plays a major role in combat.  As does target locking and staying in optimal range of your weapons (possibly knowing what optimal ranges your enemy may have in pvp)

This is not a static autoattack atuomove game in any way.  You will be auto attack, but while you are, you need to stay in the right range, and need to really be aware of terrain (am i uphill/downhill from my target?) based on your weapon choice.  As well as locking (it takes time to lock on to another target, the amout of targets you can lock and how quickly is extension and robot based). Once you get the hang of it, its pretty fun, especailly when you start fighting harder robots than the nooby drones in your tiny spider like arhke starter robot.

The learning curve is worse than EvE, simply because theres not a mountain of info from palyers with several years of experience.  The tutorial missions gives you a taste of all the mission types, roles if you will, but doesnt explain which extensions are best or how to spend your EP, i cant stress this enough do not spend your EP untill you know exactly what you want to do, and even then only do it when you have to.  Most people suggest dropping your starting EP into (for combat at least) Navigation (robot speed) Robot Controls (allows you to use a bigger badder robot when the time comes) and possible targeting related skills first. However dont roll your forst character and dump your EP into these categories, make sure your attributes are where they should be, as the wrong spec can result in extra months or years in obtaining what you want.

Character creation is vital to progression, however as a new player, you have no clue what attributes you need or what the given extensions do. 

Deleting a character costs 2 days of EP (people use to farm tutorial missions by deleting and rerolling for the free robot and 600k)

My advice is to make a character with as much Red colord bars as possible followed by green.  This will give you cheaper (obtained faster) extension needed for combat and diplomacy, as well as possibly some nexxus (aura buffs basically)

Get in game, enter the terminal, do the tutorials READ THE TEXT, do them all, 10 missions youll have some cash and a new robot.  During the tutorial you may find you like mining or decide you want to try another megacorp (faction but not really, metacorps determine starting equipment, choose based on if you want lasers (long range) magnetic weapons (short range high DD) or missles ( flys over LOS terrain and obsticals)  Ask in game about each, find one you like and stick with it.

Having 2 accounts is reccomended, yeah i know wft right.  Well it takes aver 15 years to master everything, having two accounts means you get to have mining/industry abilities as well as combat.  Both accounts feed off each other and its pretty fun.  For instance, i often escort my own miner bot (using follow) in my combat bot, while mining i can hop on the client running my combat bot and farm drones or whatever, in the case of being on the pvp beta island, i can patrol, giving my miner time to flee if i spot non allied people in the area.

If you are playing i can help you in game as well.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by toddze

In a year this will be one hell of an MMO, and it will be extremly popular, its not  there yet, it has a LOT of growing to do, but SE has the funding to do this and they will not abondon XIV, much to the haters dismay.

That will never happen. The launch of an MMO, and the following one or two months, is crucial. If the lauch fails, the game will NEVER be "extremely poplular".

 

Just like FFXI, right? ^.^

This guy is right, the launch and following few months is crucial to the game.  People treat mmorpgs like marriages, when it dissapoints, they go though a highly emotional divorace, it scars them for life.  Its quite sad the amount of emotions placed on a game.

Like AoC, right now its a very fun game, its well done, however they will never recoup the preorder crowd, as stated above, they are emotionally scared for life. 

From what i can understand, everything aside from crafting and the world/graphics is a total let down.  To change the heart of the game, what i can understand is the problem, will take more than a few months, possibly years.

What they are going to rush out new combat mechanics, mobs, and quests..... are you guys ready for a buggy and broken 6 months after that as they fix the newly implimented systems?  Perhaps i underestimate the FF fans devotion to the IP, and i very well could be.

By the time this game is "fixed" if they really follow through on it, will put this game in direct competition with some major mmorpg releases.  That does not bode well for subscriptions. 

It really baffels me how something like this could even happen, this isnt some two bit company giving it their first try.  Something is fishy whith the whole situation behind this game. I mean waiting 36 hours between quests, with little else to do for progression is insanely stupid.  Even if they had a world filled with endless varieties of mobs to grind on, it makes no sense.

Id like to believe that the company is in dire financial straights, common these days, and the game was released in a rushed state for the survival of squar enix, however it seems more like their errors were carefully calculated and planned, again it baffels me.

This game may be something great in a years time, but it has forever lost its steam.  Squar Enix would be wise to sweep this game into the dusbin of history, keep the world and completely remake the game, possible releasing it in 2 years as another title.  Its going to take a lot of time and alot of effort to right the wrongs im reading about this game.  When people complain about boring combat mechanics, thats a serious issue at the very heart of the game

Unlike AoC, whos launch errors included no content after level 20, and a buggy game overall, at least the combat mechanics were a blast, and its why the game survives today, barely as it is, eventhough its now a complete game.  It took them about 2 years to fix their launch issues.

Im confused, theres now 3 factions, and alganon is an RvR game?

Seriously? 

Or do we not know what DAOC is?

Originally posted by Cruoris

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

No, perhaps MMORPG's are not for YOU.  All OP seems to be saying is he doesn't want an on-rails Single player experience in a MMORPG, and I can perfectly understand why.

Except most MMORPGs have story, and the majority wants/likes it.

So saying MMORPGs aren't for "you" (the majority) is kinda silly, since the games where storyline takes a backseat are in the minority.

the "majority" eats at McDonalds daily and drinks 14 litre's of coke each week.  your words are meaningless in a debate about potential.

 Are they so meaningless?

Is that why theres a salad bar on every street corner?  Or is that why theres a fast food joint on every street corner.....think about it before you jump to put downs with no substance.

You want sandboxes but dont want to support the ones avaliable, while at the same time, everyone is supporting the games you dont want.  Your going to, and are, getting themeparks on every street corner. 

Originally posted by Cruoris

Originally posted by crunchyblack

I know this site is anti-themepark.  Im not pro or anti anything, if it goes with the game and the game is fun, i dont care.

However, as i said before im not a fan of limiting gamers options.  The whole point of these games is to do what you want right?  SO what if you want to get into a storyline quest chain?  I do have a huge problem with games that force you to do long quest chains IF THEY ARE BORING / MONOTONOUS /TIME CONSUMING.  Thats only if they are forced, like i cant advance without doing it.  God i hate those, especially when ive neglected the first step in the chain 20 levels ago, i get that...but thats removing my option not to do the quest chain, therefore i dislike it.

Having the option is key.  THe major themepark and/or storyline based mmorpgs like EQ2 and WoW both have the option to just ignore it all, hell you can grind mobs up to endgame if you want.

The anti-themepark rage on this sight feels like rhetoric sometimes, since all the games that offer sandbox style progression, are low pop and full of people bitching about there being nothing to do but grind.

There are three games im on and off playing, Perpetuum, Darkfall, and *gasp* wow.  Never got into wow before but decided to give it another go with the expansion and all.

The only game of the 3 where people are not bitching about the game/mechanics is wow unfortunatly.  Given the seeming huge popularity of sandboxes on this site, and others, and loud cries for no more themepark games, im very dissapointed to see games like darkfall/perpetuum/fallen earth with somewhat struggling populations.

Is it that the people on this site screaming for sandboxes, have been playing wow for the last 7 years?  Why all of a sudden can people not tolerate avoidable concepts like storyline quests, instant dungeons/PVP....fkc man back in the day thats all people wanted, an easy way to find a group, and easyer way for everyone all over the game world to meet up and pvp or dungeon, something other than simple quests.....we have gotten what we asked for in the older games.  Developers did listen, and they did deliver.

Those old games still do exist, and nothing is stopping you from playing them, since system requirements on old games are not an issue.

 

It just doesnt add up, hearing how people want sandboxes, then seeing in game how the player base reacts to sandboxes.  Its like people want it untill they get it, then they basically want wow with better graphics, from what i can see at least.

Well, i think alot of people are confusing my wish for a loreless game, with a general cry to end all Lore based PvE games. 

 

im not, and fans of such can go right ahead liking what they like.   Currently, im in Fallen Earth, awaiting the shadowbane emulator to be ready for business (unless internal "issues" corrupt the project, as is seeming more and more likely) 

darkfall, i was a little excited by, but i think the uber hardcore doomday penalties were a mistake. i think it would have been a mega hit if pvp loss hadnt been so harsh, and they had been a bit more to do  in term of socializing.   as much as i love open pvp games, im really not much of a pvper.  i just think such games add a ray of reality which gives all players roles a bit more substance.  

 

perpetuum, thats the one like eve but with ground based robots?  just sounds kind of lame, again tethered too specifically to its chosen lore constraints.   

 

i do think a niche like im describing exists, and can be successful, its just that many very eloquent detractors, such as yourself, get involved, you become extremist polemics, crying that if it's not "A" it will have to be the epitome of "B", which is really not the case.

 Well this is about the anti-themepark craze on this site.

You highlight a lot of the issues surrounding people here getting what they are asking for..... Perpetuum is a robot based EvE..."kinda lame"  .... well its a sandbox, theres no lore quests to railroad you, theres no themepark aspect....Support it if this is what you want..... Same thing goes for Darkfall (the full loot pvp is over dramatized outside of the game its not a big deal)

So theres companies out there listening to gamers, doing what they want.  They might be limited on resources since the big money isnt currently where gamers on this site want it to be.  SO support it, vote with your wallet the same way 10mil wow players did and changed the course of mmo gaming.

Hanging out on a forum and raging (not saying anyone on this thread is) about how theres no decent sadboxes, while at the same time boycotting the sandboxes out there simply because they are not 100% perfect will get us nowhere.

Point is, if people really wanted the sandbox theme so bad, they would be playing the ones out.  Remember wow had a shitty launch, and wasnt that good of a game, people supported it and now look, 7 years later selling more expansion boxes than what all the sandboxes out combined?  Im no wow fanboi, that game really isnt for me long term, but i can see it for what it is, im not blinded by hate for it like a lot of people.  Cataclysm is essentially the antithesis for what people here want, literally, and it did so well.  Gaming companies notice which types of games are drawing the crowds and which are not.

Mabey quit being so picky with the types of games you want to see more of, because as it stands now, very few companies are going to risk any sizable abount of money on a sandbox, which is why all the sandobxes out there are done by smaller companies on smaller budgets.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

No, perhaps MMORPG's are not for YOU.  All OP seems to be saying is he doesn't want an on-rails Single player experience in a MMORPG, and I can perfectly understand why.

Except most MMORPGs have story, and the majority wants/likes it.

So saying MMORPGs aren't for "you" (the majority) is kinda silly, since the games where storyline takes a backseat are in the minority.

 My point is that if the single player storylines (eventhough most you can group up and do) are avoidable, as they are in almost every major game....why would you want them removed?

Also, there are game out there that do exactly what the OP wants, in terms of no storlyine quest.  Go play darkfall, the only quests are title quest, theres no storyline to them, and they are 100% optional.  THey need subs too.

You want the sandbox, and there are sandboxes out there that desperatly need subscribers.  However people find issues still and dont play.  So the sandbox games struggle, companies that make games notice which types of games do well and which are a fight to get subscribers.   Let me tell you, compaines will NOT spend hundreds of millions of dollars to make a sandbox that a majority of the community seems to not want....get it?

MMORPGs are not for everyone, just like sport games (rather do that irl) and social networking games are not for me, i can admit it, its ok for there to be a game type not for you.

I know this site is anti-themepark.  Im not pro or anti anything, if it goes with the game and the game is fun, i dont care.

However, as i said before im not a fan of limiting gamers options.  The whole point of these games is to do what you want right?  SO what if you want to get into a storyline quest chain?  I do have a huge problem with games that force you to do long quest chains IF THEY ARE BORING / MONOTONOUS /TIME CONSUMING.  Thats only if they are forced, like i cant advance without doing it.  God i hate those, especially when ive neglected the first step in the chain 20 levels ago, i get that...but thats removing my option not to do the quest chain, therefore i dislike it.

Having the option is key.  THe major themepark and/or storyline based mmorpgs like EQ2 and WoW both have the option to just ignore it all, hell you can grind mobs up to endgame if you want.

The anti-themepark rage on this sight feels like rhetoric sometimes, since all the games that offer sandbox style progression, are low pop and full of people bitching about there being nothing to do but grind.

There are three games im on and off playing, Perpetuum, Darkfall, and *gasp* wow.  Never got into wow before but decided to give it another go with the expansion and all.

The only game of the 3 where people are not bitching about the game/mechanics is wow unfortunatly.  Given the seeming huge popularity of sandboxes on this site, and others, and loud cries for no more themepark games, im very dissapointed to see games like darkfall/perpetuum/fallen earth with somewhat struggling populations.

Is it that the people on this site screaming for sandboxes, have been playing wow for the last 7 years?  Why all of a sudden can people not tolerate avoidable concepts like storyline quests, instant dungeons/PVP....fkc man back in the day thats all people wanted, an easy way to find a group, and easyer way for everyone all over the game world to meet up and pvp or dungeon, something other than simple quests.....we have gotten what we asked for in the older games.  Developers did listen, and they did deliver.

Those old games still do exist, and nothing is stopping you from playing them, since system requirements on old games are not an issue.

It just doesnt add up, hearing how people want sandboxes, then seeing in game how the player base reacts to sandboxes.  Its like people want it untill they get it, then they basically want wow with better graphics, from what i can see at least.

The thing is, if you dont have to do the lore based quests, why do you guys care if they are in game?

Lots of people like them, and they are nice to have if i choose to do them.

Im not one for removing gaming options from games is all.

Perhaps mmorpgs are not for me if i like to have the OPTION to do linear quests.?

Thats what i was getting at.

Perhaps MMORPG's are not for you?

The whole premis of MMORPG is the RPG part.

The thing is, you can, for the most part, ignore the lore in just about every mmorpg...most do.

But remove the overall lore of a game and you get exactly what you dont suggest....a blank world with no rhyme or reason.

Im all for the creation point character creation, however, you really stick a knife into the heart of mmorpg group functions.  Fact is the more clearly defined and specialized the classes are, the better teamwork required, and overall better group mechanics.

Otherwise you get a game full of unique looking DD classes that can kinda self heal, kind of tank, and mabey CC a bit, everyone will go for the best solo/PVP combo.  Sure there may be some flavor diffrences between all the characters, but their role in game will more or less all be the same.

Nobody is against character customization, however i think class custimization is a truly ugly can of worms to open, unless of course your goal is to make a fun solo PVE MMORPG possible with PVP as the multiplayer part.

I actually like the idea of donating your EXP to someone else to say...go harvest 100 units or ore, since i need it to craft.

However i can see something like this heavily abused.  Need to figure out a way to prevent people from power leveling their buddies and/or keep high level players from abusing the work of noobs for next to no EXP sacraficed.  Or abused by, say, giving someone a player task, that happens to be the same as an NPC quest, bam double rewards for doing one quest.

That or you could join an RP guild, have the leader invet some sort of RP event requiring the work of his guildies...you can do that in any game however, unless its task reward EXP your only looking for.

I remember reading somewhere that blizzards next mmo wont be using an existing IP?

Originally posted by Azzthuras

The game looks amazing and the fact that it is being made in Korea makes it better because Ultima Online was hard and this game will be hard as well because of the fact it may be grindy. The games engine is amazing... although I do doubt youll be able to play this on a standard Walmart model pc, which is fine, but they wont make as much money which may be a good thing in the long run *Cough cough* Blizzard *Cough Cough*.

 

Definatly on my watch list.

I still cant understand why so many people think grindy and "time spent" equal a challange/skill/or difficulty...

Time consuming =/= difficulty

This thread makes no sense.

Yes wow had the the community before the game. 

Would wow still be at the top if they released a shitty game and kept it that way?  Never.

I hate to break it to you, its not the battle.net community, its not the trial or pay modle, its the game itself that gets you 10mil subscribers.

You really think all those battle.net players would ahve stuck with wow if it was so terrible?  They already belonged to battle.net and had a wide array of solid games to choose from mind you.  If wow was such a terrible game, as most on this site agree on, that community would have left wow and gone back to starcraft ect in a heartbeat.  And if graphics and "game maturity" really matterd so much, wow would be empty.

Once again, its the game, wow is the reason it has 10mil subscribers or whatever.  Sure as hell doesnt mean everyone in the world likes it, but a lot of people do.

That is all..

when i said do i have to do it, i meant stand in a field full of mobs and grind for 8 hours to get to the next level. you know....grind

*edit*

fine i have the option to quest grind, dungeon grind, pvp grind, in order to advance, 3 options vs "im out of quests and i need 60% of a level to get more, guess ill go do these repeatables..."

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by lordpenquin

I was interested in terra until I saw that it was made by a korean developer.  This mean it's a 99.9% of another horrible grinding game, only disguised as a "quest" game.   I saw someone describe having to kill 40 mobs to get the 15 items for the quest.

To that I say no thanks...

I am sorry that I have to tell you this but most MMOs are horribly grinding game but with the grind hidden behind quests and gear.

What would you else call doing the same raid 100 times to get certain gear?

As for killing 40 mobs to get 15 things, that is common in western MMOs, not a long time ago that would have been considered good drop rate. I killed a lot more mobs in EQ2 to get 15 drops.

MMOs are very grindy, like it or not. But if they hide it well it is still fun. Killing 2 1/2 mobs to get a quest item is really not that bad, but maybe it is because I been playing MMOs since 96 I think that. 

I actually want more level grind than many games have today, reach max level in a week and then grind gear for 2 years until the next expansion is overrated in my book. There must be a middle thing between L2 (where leveling is a full time work) and Wow (where leveling is a tutorial).

I like improving my character while I play and not just with new gear. Endgame have gone from a place 5% of the population is in to 90% of the population.

Loke, the diffrence is, grinding mobs is optional.  You dont have to quest, you dont have to read the quest text, you can do what you want.  The problem is with korean grinders, is that a lot of times you have the option to do one or two quests later on, that wont bring you up to the next level, where you can take out a few more quests.

I like the option to read a good story and quest, and a lot of times, western mmo quests are interesting to read, apply humor, and usually tie into the next guy down the road who also will have quests for you.  Not only that, but if i want to change the scenery i can go elsewhere, quest there, im not locked into a situation where i have 3 pain in the ass quests only, quests that actually make standing there and farming mobs looks like the better option.

So yes all mmorpgs have grind, the question is do i HAVE to do it...

Originally posted by biplex

 

---

Originally posted by judex99
And yes, in the combat part of the game it will be next gen., one of the problem i have with the current MMO's is that is hard for me to find a class that i enjoy playing, for example in Rift i cant find any class fun to play, Sentiel is the less unfun of them, in Tera the problem i have is that i find them all fun to play, from Warrior to Mystic, all are hella fun to play and i have trouble picking one to play on the west release.

---

 

That is most serious problem TERA has - it's so hard to decide on the class - all are so fun to play!

So whats so next gen and fun about TERA's classes and combat?  Details please.  Why are TERA's classes more entertaining than other games classes?

I remember when aion was suppose to be the "bridge between east and west game styles"

What we got?  A P2P korean grinder.  The korean gaming industry just does not get it, at all.  They thought a focus on PVP would make the game western.

Western games have a in-depth lore based world, no that does not mean a pretty world graphically, and no that does not mean 500 "farmer needs help" quests or 500 short, non connected quests, dealing with only its immediate surroundings.  That does not mean one storyline linear quest chain.  This does not mean 10 end game raids featuring tank n spank tactics.

I dont know how to explain it, just a short time playing one of these games has that shallow grinder feeling....Ok usually the first 10 - 20 levels or so isnt so bad, it seems they put a lot of effort into the first 3 hours of gameplay, neglecting the rest in favor of some insane idea that spending 8 hours for 10% a level grinding mobs is somehow hard and challanging.

A couple reports out of TERA already suggest that this game is just another grinder, with an attempt to add westernized gimmicks.

Oh and making it P2P just to make it P2P doesnt make the game any better than a f2p game.

I think the real issue here is how they make their games.  Pumping game after game off what seems to be an assembly line gives them that stale and shallow feeling.  Western games take epic amounts of work to complete, and are usualy well cared for after launch, not abandond for the next game comming off the assembly line.  The big successful western p2p mmo's didnt get to where they are off launch material and content, though the years they added and added and added to the game.  Redoing old areas and adding new areas ect.

To be honest, who cares? 

If korean gaming companies want to tailor make their games for another audience let them, enough people seem to enjoy them, theres plenty of well made western games.  Whats the big deal?  Let them do what they do best, good looking graphics, estrogen filled characters, non threataning and strange mobs all standing around waiting for you to park and bot.