Booo! Nothing here. I'm /sad face.

Enjoy those that got in it.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by DamonVile

 

^this

No one is really saying it's worthy of best mmo of 2013 ( although some would I'm sure) It's putting a game you've never played on the worst list that doesn't sit well with people who were expecting a serious "review" from a professional. Your attempts to back track out of what you did say ( there's no misinterpreting it )  Isn't helping.

 

Not back-tracking, explaining the reason for its inclusion.  I've read our staff's previews, talked with our writers who've played it, and all seem to agree: it's schlocky at best, regardless of its veneer.  

If you're a fan, I apologize.  But I'll stand by its inclusion here, based merely on what it represents: a cheap, base, gimmick of a hook.

I think our point was that the cheap base gimmick of a hook is besides the point whether it is a good game or not (like you wrote in your article). If it turns out to be a bad game, like you are now suggesting (and not in the article), then that should originally be given as a reason. Because the list is supposed to be about good and bad games. Not about sleazy marketing.

And even if I were a fan, you wouldn't have to apologize for your opinion about anything.

But it IS a bad game.  I'm sorry that your 'tool' does the thinking for you, but you need to understand that objectifying individuals (women, men, other) is not a way to profit off a product.  The whole concept of the game is a female only universe, all fighting in near-naked outfits.   Even their mech suits are fully exposed torsos so that the player can see the 1/2 naked woman piloting it....that's no logic in design other than to purposefully make it so to expose the nudity. 

    If a game is bad based on it's artistic design and character creation design, than that can merit the game being called bad because it's part of the whole game...in fact, it's something that is experienced the whole game.   Combat gameplay, story, and quest style are all only parts of an MMORPG, but not the all encompassing aspects of it.

Originally posted by Arcticnoon

Am I the only one who realizes that WoW has one of the worst graphics engine and art design of any half popular mmo out? We give WoW a break because, hell their engine is going on 10 years old, but then I look at a game like FFXI that is even older and was created for PS2! Look at water in one and then the water in the other and you tell me what you see. And then there's Wildstar..... Same crappy graphics and art design. Makes sense they both originated from the great house of Blizzard. If I wanted to play a saturday morning cartoon I would play Ragnarok 2, who's art design is truly art. I think games like Wildstar give us such crappy art because they know it doesnt  tax their engine like the graphics of Archage or FFXIV. And my lord have you seen Black Desert?! Square Enix knew that their 5 star graphics of FFXIV were too hard on their engine, especially with hundreds of potential player in one area. So they toned them down, got a new engine and guess what? They still are one of the very best looking games out there. I have actual game play footage as my screen saver cause they look so damn clean. And their art design is second to none.

If you dont spend major time and money on your art and graphics then it leaves more time and resources for other things. But It doesnt matter if you are soloing, team play, questing, pvping, raiding, crafting or farming. Youre always looking at the graphics and art design. It seems only asian developers realize this.

If I'm going to spend the next 5 years looking at a game shouldnt I enjoy what I'm looking at every moment and have wonder? I mean after every expansion of WoW and monthly fees Ive given them north of 600 bucks. For crappy graphics.

No thanks Wildstar.

As mentioned in another thread that has issues with this game:  Graphics are NOT Aesthetics.  What you basically have is an issue with the Aesthetic (i.e. artistic) design of the game.   The graphical power of this game is far above that of WoW.  [And I'm confused by your statement in the RED: Blizzard never touched this game. It's entirely the baby of Carbine with funding and over-the-shoulder support from NCSoft. It may have some ex-Blizzard developers, but that doesn't mean it's influenced by that company directly at all.]

In the video I linked in this post, there are consistent signs of advanced shadows, dynamic lighting, hundreds of particle effects, great shading, nice crisp textures, and so on.  So, the "graphics" are very solid in the game and have a nice amount of special effects in them too (the grass moving in the wind, the double-jump tuck animations,  the dust from Settler construction sites).

As for the AESTHETICS, which seem to be the whole point of this entire thread, I really enjoy it's look.  The game falls into category with Firefall and WoW with the cartoony stylization.   That cartoony stylization plays well into the game's humorous content and back story (lore) that the developers have made.  This game -though "serious" as far as it's raid content is- takes itself very lightheartedly when it comes to trying to be serious; and the art style complements that quite well.

P.S.  I must link this video of Graphics vs Aesthetics for clarification for those unaware of the difference.

Thank you for thread #3 or #4 on the front page that all discuss the cartoonish stylization of the ART DIRECTION (aka aesthetics).  I emphasize the words "Art Direction" because it's far different than graphics.  Pray tell do I mean?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oK8UTRgvJU

See, graphics are bout resolution, shadowing, shading, and the general "technical" behind how something has properties behind it.  It's to compare something looking flat from an almost 2D object to making it 'pop' into being a 3D realization.   Where as the Art Direction of a game is how the game artistically presents itself to the audience:  painting style (GW2), realistic (TSW/AoC/EVE), cartoony/cell shaded (WoW/Firefall/Wildstar), and a few others in between too.

Hmmm,  Hybrid = Buy2Play?   I mean, that's exactly what B2P is: a mix between the subscription game's "buy a box" and a free games "we've got stuff in shops to buy for cash".    That's what GW2, GW1, and now TSW all are.  Why shouldn't this game be like those? I'd find it very useful for both player and developer. 

See, the developer/publisher see a significant investment return on the release when players = boxes sold = covers development costs.  After such, the cash shop -consisting of things like name changes, extra character slots, expanded bank slots, unique mount skins, and so on- will pay for continued development and content updates for the game.  It's win/win for both sides of the game (player and developer).

You seem very hurt by GW2, and blame it on the publisher....did they do something bad to you in some way?

Right now GW2 is doing bi-monthly content updates, up from their monthly ones just a few months ago.  These updates provide plenty of things as far as story, PvP content, WvW content, free in-game items, balance, and so much more.   Plenty of people enjoy and LOVE the content, sure others hate it too (can't please all the people all the time).   The last few pieces of Living World content have focused much on outside world PvE content for players to experience (and the upcoming content too).

The only people I've seen personally jaded by the Gem-to-Gold conversion are either those that cannot afford to do the conversion that they'd like, or those that want to grind for the sake of cornering the market on something.

As for something I'll clarify right now that you seemingly lack in understanding:  NCSOFT IS NOT THE DEVELOPER OF THIS GAME.   

Sure NCSoft will make some decisions as far as the financials of the product, they won't when it comes to actual content within the game itself.  Those are designs made by the developers themselves.

P.S.  What "promises" are you assuming that A.Net didn't live up to? What are you so jaded about that they did or didn't do  in the game?

Originally posted by Icewhite

Please...not an entire path devoted to Jumping Puzzles.

Please?

:crickets chirp:

:sigh:

You really should read the website release: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/paths/

	CARTOGRAPHY: Making maps has never been more fun... or more dangerous! Travel into the untamed wilds of Nexus and chart territory for your faction.		EXPLORATION: Nexus is chock full of secret places, and you'll find every one! Use a combination of technology and agility to access hidden locations!
	EXPEDITION: The uncharted frontier awaits! Strike out into the great unknown, making sure to explore every last inch of the map. Cowards need not apply.		OPERATIONS: Exploring isn't just about climbing mountains. Sometimes you gotta gear up, buckle down, and get a job done. Skills definitely pay the bills.
	SCAVENGER HUNT: Ancient artifacts? Check. Remote, inaccessible locations? Check. Fearless explorers who laugh in the face of danger? Oh yeah.		STAKING CLAIM: Nexus ain't big enough for everyone, and second place sucks. So get out there, plant your flag, and claim this planet for your allies.
	SURVEILLANCE: Get your secret agent on! There's a war out there, and you need to set up remote surveillance devices to keep an eye on the enemy.		TRACKING: Ready to hunt? Track enemies, creatures and strange anomalies through the unforgiving terrain of planet Nexus. Epic rewards? You know it.

See? It's more than just "jumping puzzles".   In the first of the two videos they showed an Explorer picking up a rare crystal surrounded by traps (aka Indiana Jones style).

P.S. What's wrong with jumping puzzles? I absolutely LOVE them.  Cannot get enough of them in GW2.  That's what exploration is all about: taking dangerous, crazy paths to find what's at the end (be it simply a chest, or a fake chest that kills whoever opens it, or a crazy lab scientist that attacks people with robots).    Explorer is one of 4 options that players don't have to take in this (W*) game if they don't want to.....too bad there's no Mesmer Portals to assist those inept souls in a group who can't make it to the top.

You aware that there's already a thread on this same topic here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/385385/I-want-to-pay-for-the-game-and-have-a-sub.html ?  Technically your thread is either Topic Hijacking or Spam (take your pick, both end in a locking with redirect to the original thread anyways).

And for having a GW2 sig and avitar, you sure wold a grudge against the game.  That game is anti-farm strictly because it's designed to be played, not to be manipulated.  That's the way it's truly designed and the developers have every right to ensure that.  You can obtain most everything in-game that you'd ever want/need very easily by just playing it; some quicker than others by playing longer.

As for this game, it'll either be B2P box sales with a Cash Shop, or F2P with a Cash Shop.  The controlling publishing company is NCSoft, after all.    And I'm sorry to say, but Cash Shops are going to be more and more popular because it's tons of $$ for the developers and players see them as no more than DLC for MMO's.   Subscriptions aren't a guarantee, they just chase away potential customers

Best valued MMORPG out there.  So much free content, so many choices of gameplay, and such fun gameplay at that.  Really can't beat it (that is, unless Wildstar is going to be B2P, then it might be beat).

Can't wait for next Tuesday's big WvW Ascended patch (of course, with the ending Southsun Shores content as well).

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by udon

I just don't see a game attracting PVE end game players long term F2P or B2P.  It would be pretty hard to convince most of them that the developer priorities will be focused towards end game raiding progression long term without at least a sub option.

I never considered raiders because they're such a small group, 40 man raiders even more so.  The problem with your thinking is that you've been fed this line so many times, it seems right.  How is GW2 able to produce consistent content without having a sub?  The mind boggles!  It's because you don't NEED a sub to make new content, the only reason these games have raid lockouts and subs is to line their pockets.  If you think all the money WoW makes goes to the game, the joke's on you.  Subs are a scam, it's easy to see that.  In other words, you can make just as high quality a game without a sub.

Unless you think it takes all that extra income to make gear purple and put high stats on it.

What new content has GW2 created that would appeal to people looking for the kinds of challenges and organization requirements that the hardest raids in WoW, EQ/EQ2 or even Rift can offer?  Is there anything that's even close because last time I played all the PVE content was very low key "casual" small group stuff at it's hardest and organized PVP was little more than the guild that zergs the best wins. 

I'm really not trying to knock these kinds of games as they do have their place I'm just putting it out there that the top 5% raid crowd isn't going to give up their standings in the game they are playing to play a F2P or B2P game that will likely never even bother releasing another raid zone after launch.  So if Wildstar really wants to focus on that market like they have mentioned in dev speaks part of that will mean a sub.  These developers are well plugged into that 5% raid crowd btw so they know this which is why I would be really surprised if they launched anything except sub.

I honestly believe that the only game left that can sustain itself via a sub is one with a hard core raid end game.  And even than it's a tough sell like EQ2 and Rift have discovered.  Why TESO and FFXIV both think they can rate a SUB with no real PVE end game to speak off is beyond me.

GW2 has created a lot of new content, patching monthly to start, and now bi-monthly with huge story based content, sPvP updates and WvW updates. That game, however, is not aimed at raiders at all....it's not a raiding game.  But, point stands that it adds in huge monthly CONTENT patches (not just bug fixes and balancing) for the low, low monthly cost of $0.

"Top 5% raid crowd"......love how you describe that.  WoW currently has 8.3 million subscribers as of the last Quarter Call for Activision/Blizzard's investers.  5% of that is .... 415,000.   Hmmm...who would really want to cater to less than 1/2 a million customers in an MMORPG as a 'main customer base'?   GW2 has had 3 million+ and is still growing.  So who is the better target audience:   The minority hardcore raiders or the majority casual players?  Financially speaking, it's the latter (and NCSoft, the $$ backing this game, knows it).

The idea of raiding being the only "end-game" for any MMORPG is a dated, started to fade mindset.  Things like massive, goal oriented PvP (i.e. what WvW for GW2 is, TESO's 3-faction siege warfare, and even the 40-vs-40 fortress fights in Wildstar) is now a main end-game feature that a very large portion of customers take as their game play

P.S. If you weren't aware of it, Rift was/is a "hardcore raid end-game game".  Sadly that the game is going F2P because it's customer number is going downhill (just like WoW) can only tell you that the particular focus on that content alone is not a wise decision for a new MMORPG; nor is the subscription model.

Hey, Author....

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-28-2013/

There's your "more" to the whole Secrets of Southshore content for the May 28th patch....

Originally posted by DOGMA1138

Originally posted by rannox

I have one source as to why this game will be F2P.... Housing.

 

So far there is no in game store or any of the usual micro-transaction mechanics in the BETA builds, GW2 had the store quite early so does every other F2P title.

All of the housing items so far are crafted, drops, or quest rewards so although they can have a fluff store ala WoW it won't be their main source of income.

An F2P title needs much more than some book shelves and tables to generate profit from a store, so far i don't see any hint of that being in the game.

Go on the assumptions that any store that they have prepared for the game are not showing in the Public Closed Beta.  Instead assume that there's one in the In House Closed Beta.  Why is that? Because the public, much like yourself, cannot be trusted to keep their traps shut!  

Why would they want to advertise something that no matter how miniscule the effect on the game would be, still would bring public outcries and bad press?

Questions: 

1. How many races are currently in the closed Beta? Probably not all them, including the unrevealed ones.
2. How many character slots does one have during this closed Beta? I'd guess 2-5 at most.
3. And how about the number of bank/bag slots available?  I'm sure there's some restriction there too.

Originally posted by PrinceDamien

Now, I'm wondering if that guy here in the lower right is the same thing, just with a mask on so that it hides the face. Maybe not, because he's not blue. 

What 4th on that picture? The only thing I see to the lower right is the kneepad formed as a skull.

That's a kneepad? Are you sure? That looks far more to be a body than a knee. If that's a knee, his knee is bigger than his head. And it has it's own eyes, mouth, everything. Far more detailed into being an actual race than a knee. If that's meant to be a knee, the artist was drunk at the time.

Originally posted by SoMuchMass

Originally posted by Siphaed

 

You're a fool....a fool's fool, to  believe that subscriptions have "perks and fun stuff" compared to non-sub games.   Compare the monthly content updates of a game like Guild Wars 2 to a game like WoW.   There's far more content updates in an not-so-polished, less than a year old game than there have been for an 8 year old, well polished game.  Why is that? Where's the value in the subscription based game if a non-sub game can push out more content updates in a shorter amount of time for just the cost of the box as entry.

GW2 is a bad example of a B2P game.  They launched incomplete with features people expect in modern MMOs.  They don't have dueling, dungeon finder, Battleground finder, UI customization etc.  It was probably due to their limited funds and payment model.

GW2 was launched with 8 dungeons and 1 PvP sPvP mode.  That is extremely behind most modern MMOs, including Tera which had 16 at launch.  Even if GW2 released a dungeon a month it was behind in "content".  But their "content" has mostly been bug fixes.

If WildStar can pull of WoW/Rift style content with a B2P model I would be suprised.  It isn't easy funding a team that can do things like 20 and 40 man raid updates with those models.

 

Those "features" are what raiders expect...what people who are obsessed with the carrot-style dungeon crawl expect.., but they are by no means a requirement or standard. 

Battleground finder? Seriously?  For WvWvW, just pick a map and go, and for sPvP there's a full list of every available server, no need for such as WoWish thing that hides it's options behind a 'finder'.

Dungeon Finder...they are working on one, but they want to make it semi-perfect to where it's not just gathering non-sociable people and teleporting them to a dungeon without any communication the entire time.  Those things are totally anti-social trash that ruins an MMORPG.

Dueling? What's the point of dueling except stretching your epeen in hopes that it's slightly bigger than the next guy's.  Right?  Ya, thought so.  Instead there's custom arenas where players can set up duels if they choose, but in WvW and the rest of the PvE content, where balance is wacked out and not even on a 1vs1 scale, there's no point to duels.

Custom UI is another thing of what you want, but by no means a need at all.  As long as a UI is fluid and usable in a set up way, it's fine. Certain parts of the GW2 UI care moveable and customizable, but to a limited extend within the boundries of the game.  [Based on what I've seen from Wildstar's gameplay, it seems that the UI is also going to be fixed.  Remember: 9 abilities total for player's to use on bar at a given time.]

So stop trying to imprint your "MMO standards" on to other games and call them failures or bad based on them not meeting what you personally expect.  There are games that are making big changes like GW2 and Wildstar because many of the WoW clones that stuck to those 'standards' have nearly bellied up because of being basically the same thing with a different skin. 

GW2 isn't WoW; Wildstar isn't WoW.  Don't like it?  There's the door.  However, Wildstar is similar to GW2 with it's action combat, dynamic environmental events; it has limited abilities on bar, but still gives players enough options during combat.  But that's where the similarities end as Wildstar goes for a more humorous approach, includes housing, keeps the Trinity trope and sticks to a Sci-Fi theme instead of Fantasy.

P.S. Why am I even arguing with you? You're the troll on Massively.com that constantly goes into every GW2 article posted and start spamming shit talk left and right. 

Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

You're a fool....a fool's fool, to  believe that subscriptions have "perks and fun stuff" compared to non-sub games.   Compare the monthly content updates of a game like Guild Wars 2 to a game like WoW.   There's far more content updates in an not-so-polished, less than a year old game than there have been for an 8 year old, well polished game.  Why is that? Where's the value in the subscription based game if a non-sub game can push out more content updates in a shorter amount of time for just the cost of the box as entry.

Sure, Neverwinter was/is a 'crash-and-burn' scenario, but that's because it was a predictable end to something made by Cryptic and Perfect Word Entertainment.  I'm unsure on familiarities with PWE, but Cryptic I'm far too familiar with in their negative exploits of Star Trek Online and Champions Online.   They've made milking machines out of both of those games, so why wouldn't they do it for Neverwinter?

Unless there's a game out there -other than Rift- that can put an actual value to subscription costs, then there is really no reason to do the whole "subscription" thing anymore.  In fact, Rift is going F2P, which is a tell out of how gating that subscriptions can be, even on a game that does constant content updates for it's players (Rift was far better in updates than WoW was, just as GW2 is...really put a value to the subscriptions, even if it focused heavily on raiding content).

Originally posted by WellzyC

[Not a troll post, legitimate questions]

 

There are some really obnoxious trends in themeparks games, and I’m trying desperately to avoid them before I spend money on any title. Since this game is getting ramped up as it is going into larger betas I need some crucial information about some pet peeves.

 

I am very interested in this title, I love housing, creative pvp, Raiding, grouping, Trinity grouping especially, lots of stuff about this game has me excited. But there are defiantly some issues that could be deal breakers for me that I need to figure out.

 

Any of the following true? Or false?

 

1. When watching some gameplay video I noticed when the character died he was able to rez himself in the same spot he died  (swtor style) This is a deal breaker for me, I can’t stand the no death penalty crap.

 

2. Small hotbar?   I like having lots of builds and abilities on my character. Yes.. you never really had a reason to use Mind Vision, or Hawk Eye, but they were fun! I like lots of abilities to choose from so I can play in lots of different ways. Even fun silly spells and abilities are great!  GW2 was just awful when it came to combat and abilities, by lvl 20 you were just bored to tears of your character.   (Mind controlling silly horde off the Great Lift anyone?)

 

 

3. Out of combat insta health?  Another thing that drove me nuts in gw2. When you were out of combat you healed up instantly. The staple of any RPG is being smart about managing your health. Recovery should require medding, eating, bandaging or being healed by another player. Don’t get me wrong, EQ and DAOC health regain was a little too harsh, but I like a happy medium, otherwise it’s too much like an arcade game, not an RPG.

 

 

4. Avoiding red circles? Sorry for picking on GW2, but lots of things about that game annoyed me. Wildstar as a similar mechanic with avoiding red stuff on the ground. GW2 combat “strategy” was basically using your dodge button to avoid dmg, and that was the extent of any strategy. Think they will lean too far on this “stay out of the red” mechanic where combat has no real strategy?   Combat should be about keeping your defense spells up and the right time, knowing when to be aggressive and when to be defensive, using situational spells and abilities, using cc when you are outnumbered; things like that. If combat is so simple that I could use a joy stick to play, than it is not for me.

 

 

5. Far too much solo content? I play mmos to group and socialize; I’m tired of the single player games with chat boxes.

 

 

Well this is getting lengthy, so I will wrap it up. I just need to know about some of these trends if they are or are not in the game, because it will greatly determine if I spend my hard earned money on it, because some of these mechanics I just won’t support.

If anyone has any insight on this I would greatly appreciate it.

1.  Because being penalized and running as a ghost for 5-10 minutes is such an enjoyable experience?  Not!  That's the biggest waste of time in an MMORPG that I'd rather log out and play some insta-gib LoL or TF2 instead of that crap. 
2. Maybe you got bored by level 20 in GW2, but I sure in the hell didn't.  In fact, you don't get an Elite ability unlocked until level 30.....so, ya, that's bull.   Each class having bar-switching mechanics such as Elementalist Attunements, Weapon swapping, Engineer kits, and so on.  Not sure how Wildstar stacks up against that, but it's still a manner of how you play, not how many abilities you have on hand.  Also, if they're all on GCD, it's not going to matter if you have 1,000 abilities to use, you can only do 1 at a time. 
3. Again another thing just like #1, where the question is: "Who the hell wants to sit in the same spot to drink healing and mana potions or heal through bandages for 30sec-1.5min at a time?" It's such a time waster and a total inconvenience for the player.  Something that's an old mechanic used to bait the player into spending more time in a game (i.e. slow progress down so that can stay subscribed longer....)
4. Are you kidding me? Combat is far more strategic in GW2 than many, almost all, MMO's that came before it. Certainly far more than WoW.  Sure, the red circles are there to alert the player,  but it's not there 100% of the time and certainly doesn't show for those that are melee classes....it's mainly Field indicators, which  isn't too shabby.  Yes, Wildstar goes far further beyond this and does EVERY ability (from the videos I've watched), so it'll be hit or miss on how that feels). But, this game also has double-jump as well as dodging.  Moving in combat trumps standing there with a shield to "blocK' (by dice roll, no less) every time.
5. Yes, there is solo content.  Just as there is group combat.  From the videos I've seen, there seems to be a larger mix of the two in the game.  The zone had quite a few "elite" type mobs dropped in as well as what's called a "zone boss", which all seem to be group content.    Having some solo content isn't bad, because there are those that want to play like 80% solo and 20% with friends or group PUG's. That's alright.  You're not the center of the MMO universe, you know; 100% grouping content is an archaic thing of the past.

Could we all look at the reality of the situation here, please?

1) Aion, NCSoft's last major subscription MMORPG, went F2P after a few years...less than a few years, I think.

2)  WoW, the current #1 subscription based MMORPG, has dropped 1.3 million subscriptions in a 3 month period.

3) Games like GW2 have proven that you can get more value out of a game that doesn't have a subscription than you can out of those than can.  This attractive business model has shed light against slower updating subscription based games (3-6 months between "major patches"?! please...come on!).

4) Competition out there right now is the highest it's ever been, so lowering the entry cost for their game is the best bet to try to attract major customer numbers.

Most obvious sell for this game:  Buy-2-Play.  Why? Because NCSoft has already had other successful products go with this business model (i.e. GW & GW2) as publisher and owning company.  Then they can start to go with their ever popular in-game stores for mini-pets (obvious), mounts, boosts, bag spaces, character slots, and so on.