Thanks for the repplies.

Signing out of the thread.

To Munki, thanks for the repply.

Just a correction. When I buy a product (game, music) they say you cant redistribute to someone else. Years ago you could, but they noticed that there was a lot of money in the usuable products market. Thats why now they created limitations for people to redistribute products.

If you buy lets say, GTA IV, play it for a month, then pass it away on ebay, its a crime. If you sell it to your friend, its a crime.

They even got to the point where you can only install a product a few times. (recently with Spore)

So one of the issues you didnt understood by my lack of communication skills on the previous topic was that with OnLive, after a while, since due to the way the new system will work people wont need to have the physical product (that will be their excuse, listen closelly to what they answer about it, they wont mention it), and its not like they will give you a cd/dvd copy of the product you bought, if they do, you will have to spend more money, maybe pay an extra "redistributable license rights tax" or maybe the product will come with x number of reinstallations uses. If you stop renting, they wont give you access to it anymore, its obvious. So you are bound to pay, every fucking month, whether you use it or not. Right now, you just need to pay for p2p mmos or games that require cd-keys to play online. We are talking reality here. And even if you dislike it, you can resell the cd-key online or sell your items/account for someone else. Even if they say its illegal, the fact that your time and effort spent and the freedom of access is more important then their ridiculous high proffit. Its not they do games for gamers anymore anyway. Its like, who can vomit an unfinished product first and then do it again with another product.

You cant have it, you cant sell, destroy, rent, change whatever you bought. You will be in prison, not like today. The price we will pay will be too high, that what me and others are foreseeing.

Everything you can do now, even though the entertainment industry say its illegal (not because people agree with them, but because they choose their own rules and the rules about copy rights were loobied three generations ago for reasons dont exist anymore and cant be enforced due to internet and the new paradigm of democracy of access, freedom of information and the practical impossibility of ownership of ideas), but you can and everyone does it as a socially acceptable conduct, because they cant arrest or tax or fiscalize everyone who does so, but with OnLine, they will solve this problem, OnLive is a trojan horse that will allow them CONTROL. There wont be more money outside of OnLive because of that, like there is today where people buy and resell and rent whatever, even if they people didnt bought a "redistributable rights license".

OnLive is a virus, it will spread and heavilly gimp the other systems. It will spread because government will love it because it is a public service for them (as if they dont know already), offer a candy and get them. Right now they cant get us. It will spread because the entertainment industry will make more money from the rental system, wich is the golden mine of our generation (games industry is the most lucrative entertainment industry, and thats because rental system on p2p mmorpgs), there wont be money outside of their cycle. The group efforts will work so well and it will grow.

Soon Publishers that dont get in will be at a loss, directly and indirectly due to the sheer popularity of OnLive. Who knows what kind of moves people in favor of OnLive method will do to hurt Publishers who dont accept their method? Lobby to create rules to avoid problems (that exist today, but they dont see, untill compare to OnLive system), Lobby to make Publishers work harder, close doors at major media gates.

OnLive gathered effort will have so many resources scathered everywhere compared to anyone who opposes them that at some point, the % of products outside of OnLive radius of control will be negligible. Eventually the fatal blow will come, its not like "there will always be resistance". They will buy the resistance outright or destroy it.

Once every product is working under the new system, government/entertainment industry will have an effective tool to control.

full implementation of copyrights,

full control of content and therefore ideas. Since everything will be under OnLive, they will be able to close, suspend, change whatever they wish. Suddenly they will decide what is ok and what is not, and their word will be law. Someone remembers how the war publicity worked in Germany prior to the Second World War (it was everywhere and it caused effect). Soon they will be able not only to decide what to allow, but enforce what they want in peoples games and it will cause effect.

If they want to put nationalist messages or hate messages they will. If the economy is in a crise and they want to incentivate consume, they will be able to put such messages in games. if they want to say something is bad or good, they can. Its too much power. You might think you wont fall for any of those, but after some time, kids will grow with those values rooted on them, like how arians were the superior race. There are still people alive who believe that.

There wont be discussions like there are today. It will be what they decide and end of story. "BECAUSE WE CAN."

OnLive will allow them that.

Conspiracy theory in the morning?

I hope someone create a big post about it, with all the concerns/effects in a better way than my non native english and 24 years old of experience/knowledge would ever be able to.

Ok, enough.

They can take our lives, but they will never take our

FREEDOM

Effects

What about third world countries?

What about piracy?

What about phisical ownership of products?

What about control of content?

What about of control of user identity?

I wont be able to remain anonymous to OnLive, will I?

I wont be able to pass away the stuff I bought to friends, its illegal now, but they cant control it.

They will certainly secure the content so that it wont be crackable. People wont even have any files to mess with.

What if at some point big game corps start using only OnLive because of its "advantages"?

What about the purchase system being changed into a rental system?

I dont like how the entertainment industry is making its move. It has been a while since they keep trying to control stuff.

This isnt just about not needing to upgrade hardware. Its about copyrights mechanics subrepticiously being introduced. Its all fun and games untill you see the jail where you are. What about the decades fighting for rights, for freedom of speech, freedom of thought, for the utter freedom and lack of control people enjoy on internet. How many billions of money people avoid wasting on the entertainment industry because on internet?

Lets debate the effects of OnLive, not just the good stuff that is being advertised, but the shady business strategy behind it.

Its like when you hear those rumours about governments trying to control the internet, entertainment industry creating digital seals, internet providers traffic shapping. People, dont be stupid, think about what OnLive represent for the entertainment industry, for the government, for the consumers, for everyone involved.

I would hire a bunch of writers from White Wolf Publishing like CCP did.

bad

this is bad

this is very bad!

its happening...

we have to do something...

to stop the cattle from being herd...

how the major media will position itself

is the next signal

yes, we are being watched

its on!

Its been 5 years that its old.

Drift City is the closest a racing game got to an MMO.

Its very fun game with rpg elements, story quests, diversity on pve content, economy/action house, crew competition for territory wielding proffit, lots of things to see/unlock/test, ridiculous ammount of customization, equipment with random bonuses for the diablo fat leet factor...

Ah, and before someone else mentions it... Test Driving Unlimited failed.

And every other multiplayer racing online game isnt massive enough in terms of number of players, space scale, time and effort spent to receive the Massive tag, neither have enough elements to be worthy of receiving an RPG tag as well.

I remember dreaming and designing a WOD MMO full with all systems in a crossover right after playing GTA 3.

I would like an invite too! I heard this game is a TRUE free to play game (unlike those cash shoppers/item mall games) mix between Ultima Online and Diablo!

Hack n Slash Open Sandbox!
 

interesting2@hotmail.com

Would you eat a bowl of shit for $10 mil.

I mean, $15 mil to kill a friend or just $10 mil to eat a bowl of shit?

Mount and Blade Multiplayer is going to be so awesome.

Wait, what?

If I dont like a game with exploits. If I dont like to exploit. If Im pissed of that others do it.

This game is not for me? 

So thats how YOU "evolved"...

Listen, a huge chunk of players disagree with you.

Amazing.

Yeah, never expect players to do the right thing.

This is one of the biggest design problems of our generation.

How to make a game that people cant debug and start industrializing whatever is most effective.

Having no ridiculously obvious exploits is the least they should have done.

"Darkfall could launch today!"

"We have thousands of bots testing the servers!"

"We have payed professional testers!"

And whats up with the people trying to use the insignificance/lesivity principle on the matter, are them part of the people who benefitted, are them just unaware or just naive?

Just to clarify before it reaches the second page:

We require a wipe, yes, but not just a wipe.

We are not stupid. We want them to wipe AND solve the issues so it doesnt get exploited again AFTER the wipe. Its obvious, I know, but in the other topics there are people still posting that a wipe wouldnt change anything (!) Thats why I have to be specific, some people cant think for themselfs.

About organized and overcommitted guilds having the lead, thats perfectly fine.

The title of that thread wasnt catchy enough to get the recognition and the seriousness the matter requires.

Besides, the main thread with the "Wipe" on the title didnt had a strong enough message on the topic (that the subtle one had).

Originally posted by bigboxONE

here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/226039/Time-to-level-the-playing-field.html

Alright since the server has been down more than up and the syncing issues fubared EVERYTHING, lets discuss the current hot topic - exploiting.

Now see there is no exploiting in Darkfall, people are merely playing the game which is given to them. If you find something you can kill, you better do it.

I have spent a large amount of time exploring and have seen many of those big guilds in action, so it's time to spill the beans to level the playing field for all.

The synching issues have rendered most mobs impossible, many were able to find the endless amount of loitering goblins outside the ork starter towns and farmed them for hours. Many who played beta understood why these mobs were bugged.

It's the water, any mobs which spawn in knee deep water are typically bugged. Find a swamp area and go to town on bugged mobs. Find dungeons, most of the mobs are not completely desynched and there are tons of pathing exploiting to kill black knights. I have even had luck training desynched mobs into shallow water where they get stuck and cannot move.

Heres another good one where I saw many of the "big guilds" exploiting, don't worry I will not call out names but yes I am the one that looted your corpses which got killed by black knights on the way out. Thanks for couple thousand gold and multiple sets of banded armor!

There is a dungeon here 6'40 E and 18'14, it is outside the orc area yet because it is a special dungeon I have seen people come from all over the land to come to this place.

Now there are multiple broken spawns which do fight back but are stuck like glue in water, high levels. You can just take them down with ranged while you use rocks as cover.

Deeper into the dungeon there is a acid pit, the mobs are so fucking stupid that they back and forth through the acid killing themselves. It's hilarious and yields tons of gold and equipment.

You can kite black knights at the end of the dungeon and get them stuck on walls, yaay free plate!

So that is the big one, the cat is out of the bag so go nuts!

If you know of any others post them up, it's bullshit what these "hardcore guilds" have been saying - this is what EVERYONE IS DOING.

So it's time to level the playing field, the game should not be about knowledge of exploiting to succeed.

Let's spill the beans!

*********************************************************************************************************************

If this is true, then the server needs a wipe.

This problem can break the game for many people.

Drive people away from it.

Make people quit. People bad talking the game and the company behind it for it.

Thats the type of problem, that in a game like Darkfall, make people very frustrated. 

Even if someone isnt the "Killer" or "Achiever" type of player.

Since its in the beggining days, only those who benefitted from the exploits have something to lose from a wipe, so it would serve as a punishment for them. Also, the company would get praised, getting a good impression from the community from how they deal with "a major problem in the launch".

Even those who "legitimally" earned their achievements have nothing to lose compared to the greater good it will come from the wipe. Everyone will benefit in the long run from the healthy administration of the server. 

Up for great justice.

As long as people keep making posts crying about the exploits destroying the game and the need for a wipe, two effects:

1. They will wipe the server.

2. If they dont, then we damage them indirectly by complaining and driving people away.

So, or they do what we want (effect 1) or they endure the effect 2.

Im 100% for spamming all the forums about  how Darkfall is already full of cheaters/botters/macroers/exploiters and the game is overrun by beta guilds owning everything and blablabla.

WE NEED A WIPE.

In the worst case scenario, there will be other servers.

Exploit the hell out of it with whatever exploit is left by the time they open it.

I just hope the devs read this thread.

I would like to test the game, please, send the invite to

Interesting2@hotmail.com