Even if Darkfall is laggy or whatever, its......... 2012. This game may come out in 2013-14-15, why is something like this a problem for a company like Bethesda? Also I'm pretty sure Bethesda/ZeniMax are going to have a lot more resources to pull from then Aventurine did. Didn't Aventurine have to take a 30mil loan out? I wouldn't mind comebat like Demon/Dark Souls if it came down to it. I may even like this more then the standard FPS style.

As for a "ture" TES:O would be a PVE game, I just don't agree. A "ture" TES:O would let me walk up to anyone or npc and steal their loot or kill them, then steal their loot.  TES is about being what you what and doing what you want. ((along with the roleplaying, story, lore and many other great things.)) I'm not saying we should be able to just kill or steal things from people without repercussions also, something like a murder stysem like L2 or UO would be nice. Never played EVE but doesn't even EVE have some kind of bounty you can put out on people. That would be great.

Slap another name on this game besides TES:O and I wouldn't even care about some of this stuff, I may even like it, as for me I like almost any style of MMO's. I liked and played on pve servers for games like WoW/EQ, I also like to put on full suit of wooden armor in Lineage 2 walking around Talking Island, slapping people with none grade weapons to get them to attack me and turn purple so I could K.O. them with my lvl 75 Sliver Ranger. So this isn't like I just want a pure PVP game with full loot and zero meaning to ganking someone. But I'm also not above myself in wanting to gank the crap out of people under skilled or leveled then me.

"Biggest bugbear, hard classes" Like I said, this was only a small list. This goes along the lines of being what you want and doing what you want for me.

"Recreateing the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world." This in my opinion pretty much tells me no stealing, no full loot or even at the least bag loot, along with so many other things. Maybe I'm reading to much into this one but that what I see at least.

which world of warcraft mechanics, I see none. What action bars, a mini map? these all predate wow, wow UI is heavily based on COH and AC. I hear plenty of things that are decidedly non wow though like - NO QUEST HUBS, no agro, no tanks, open world PVP as endgame PVP, open dungeons, open raids for whole factions

Hmmm.... I didn't say anything about the UI, quest hugs, action bars or mini maps. What I was talking about here is "recreating the freedom Elder Scrolls and so on......" meaning that I don't think will see things like stealing, bag/full loot, ffa pvp. Content  like this means "freedom" to me. To do and be what you want, something has TES games have let you do forever now. ((not all of them)). Which I pretty much already summed up in my 2nd paragraph. I do like and want open dungeons/worlds. As I've said, I hope I'm worng and maybe just reading too much into it.

I don't really like to group up graphics or art styles like most people do when it comes to MMo's. I'd like to think I can see the difference in most of them. The screenshots look fine to me. The only MMO I feel I couldn't and wouldn't defend on this is Alganon. If that's not a "wow-clone" I don't know what is.

Not to run WoW into the dirt even more, but players been wanting and waiting for housing, guild halls, keeps or whatever from day one. Its now 7-8 years later. My point is if its not in the game in some form or another, from the start the chances of seeing it at all are slim. It's also not at the top of my list, but its just one thing after another if you know what I mean.

Again this is just my opinion and thanks for the solid reply.

Crap thats ton to read, this is why I don't post much lol.

From what I've been reading I just can't understand some of these things..

No Housing? Its too hard? What? EQ1-2 been doing it for years just fine.

No FPS/Real time combat? Because of Latency? It can't work in a MMO? I remember running PlanetSide back in 2003-04 on 56k/DSL, with well over "100vs100" bridge battles and doing just fine. Do I really need to list all the MMO's that use real time combat/FPS?

"Ebonheart Pact: The Nords, Dunmer, and Argoninans" is a faction? What? Even 1000 years back, This is like when Blizzard was like hey, Taurens can be Paladins now. Lets not rewrite lore everytime an mmo comes out please.

Can't be imperials because they are a at war with all 3 factions/allying up with the evil King of Worms and Mannimarco!? Sign me up please, I don't want to be part of these "factions". I'll take the Shadowbane/UO(many other ffa pvp games) road anyday over DAOC. 

"Recreateing the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world." This in my opinion pretty much tells me no stealing, no full loot or even at the least bag loot, along with so many other things. Maybe I'm reading to much into this one but that what I see at least. 

With any other IP/MMO, it is what it is, but this is TES. Come on the blueprint is right in front of your face on what should of been done. This is just a small list of things that make me a sadface.

When I seen a few screenshots they really didn't bug me. I like that art style anyways, but when I started to google it up and do some reading I started to get a feeling that my stomach was eating itself from the inside out. In the end I hope half of the is false and I'm just being trolled. That evil false hope...

Last I like to add that this is just my opinion, think, feel or you like whatever you want to call it (crying, nerd rage) not everyone who loves or hates TES, MMOs.. Its MINE.

Yep.....

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls..

Outside of these two games everything is cake.

Thanks for the small debate everyone, this will at least help me keep an open mind about the game. I do like MMOs so that at least a 2nd thing to look forward to if the RPG parts don't fall in for me, along with being a Star Wars fan. I guess like most MMOs or anyother game the best way to go about this is just wait and see. Thanks again.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by ilovespoons

I have a question for everyone here, I got into the weekend beta but I can't bring myself to play it. Not because I think it will suck but because I'm more of a RPG fan then a MMORPG, story means more to me then most things when it comes to gamming. I would hate to spoil any of the story in the game in a weekend beta. My question is from a RPG fans view is this game worth a look at? From what I've read it would seem like you could play this like any other RPG and for me I would play SWTOR as a RPG more so then a MMO and so I'm  worrending if SWTOR really has the value of lets say KOTR/DA:O/BG or any other RPG in that range. I played Shadowbane for 6 years so It's not really a carebear thing, it's just when it comes to RPGs or MMOs I rather play a RPG.

The stories are great. Think of this as KOTOR 3,4,5,6 +  with multiplayer.

 Ya I remeber reading or see a video about the KOTOR 3.4.5 but I wasn't sure if it could really live up to something like that, or even be done.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by ilovespoons

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Fulltime beta tester here and I will tell you SWTOR is a sub-par single player RPG. The story is completely static, your decisions have no impact on the out come of the story.

If story is your main reason to play you might not want to waste your time on SWTOR.

 Ah that part makes me 2nd guess SWTOR. Thanks for the heads up.

Too bad it's entirely incorrect.

 Explain please if you will, I'm trying to get an open mind about this.

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Fulltime beta tester here and I will tell you SWTOR is a sub-par single player RPG. The story is completely static, your decisions have no impact on the out come of the story.

If story is your main reason to play you might not want to waste your time on SWTOR.

 Ah that part makes me 2nd guess SWTOR. Thanks for the heads up.

I have a question for everyone here, I got into the weekend beta but I can't bring myself to play it. Not because I think it will suck but because I'm more of a RPG fan then a MMORPG, story means more to me then most things when it comes to gamming. I would hate to spoil any of the story in the game in a weekend beta. My question is from a RPG fans view is this game worth a look at? From what I've read it would seem like you could play this like any other RPG and for me I would play SWTOR as a RPG more so then a MMO and so I'm  worrending if SWTOR really has the value of lets say KOTR/DA:O/BG or any other RPG in that range. I played Shadowbane for 6 years so It's not really a carebear thing, it's just when it comes to RPGs or MMOs I rather play a RPG.

LOL did this OP just say OBLIVION DOESNT HOLD YOUR HAND!!??!!!?!!!!!!?!! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!??!!!?!! ITS THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY TONS AND TONS OF PEOPLE CAN'T STAND THAT DAMN GAME!?!!!!!! IF I NEED TO EXPLAIN HOW IT HOLDS YOUR  DAMN HAND MORE THEN ANY OTHER RPG EVER MADE, THEN I KNOW YOU HAVE NO GOD DAMN IDEA WHAT "HOLDING YOU HAND" MEANS. PLAY MIRROWIND OR GOTCH 1-2 IF YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFERENCE.

Now that my rage is out of the way, dont make topics that you clam are facts or false when you know nothing about what you are talking about. Saying that DarkSouls had sold 600k in units is a reason why the "WoW crowd" is a myth means nothing. Do all WoW players have a 360 or PS3?  NOPE. So thats pretty much fasle. Also do you know how many damn people retruned that game? A fucking ton, because they could handle it. So yet another false.

After them reports of reasons you gave I stop reading because I'm more then sure you have no damn idea what you are talking about.

End of Thread

its really not at all. Its hard to explain fi you havn't played SB

We won't ever have another game like shadowbane again, we are the select few that like that kind of game. Its hard to deal with but thats the turth and it sucks.

I really don't post much Im more so just a reader, but I have to say that this does nothing but sicken me. I play RPGs first than MMOS, I really hate the fact that Cryptic is touching a IP with such great value ((again)) as NWN. I guess I now know how it felt for the people that like Star Trek. I played NWN1-2 for 6 years on and off, and with the way MMOs have been today and Cryptic track recored I can't but feel this won't even last half that time. I can only hope Cryptic picks up their game and makes a game worth playing for more than a beta for once.

I would like to have a key also, thanks. Please :)

Originally posted by Mannish

Tommorrow Chronos will be born and the final chapter will begin. See you all there!

 Final Chapter really? I stop playing L2 like 2 years ago but never thought I see the day of the game coming to an end. I guess all good things come to an end. Have fun in Chronos.

Originally posted by blueturtle13

Risen was great. I loved it. was like a gothic 3 do over lol

Risen wasn't really like gothic 3... must be thinking gothic 2

Ya I didnt think so just hoping I guess.

When is the PC release date for Fable 3?

I would give RO http://www.ragnarokonline.com/ its s good MMORPG all around. It has crafting along with the most crazy catroon looking mobs and legit pvp that pretty hardcore if you really wanna dig into it. Its kinda of a grind tho but there so many different looking mobs that you'll never see in another game I think you'll like it along with your kids. Also some free P-servers if you want a link with a list of some just PM me.

Also RO2 coming out but I dont know much about it.

Originally posted by Sharajat

 

Originally posted by zantax

 

Originally posted by devacore

 

Originally posted by Shoal

I would consider World of Warcraft a trully MASSIVE breathrough.

It changed the MMO industry from a 400k subsciribers was Uber to one where 10 million subscribers is now the benchmark.

Even if one does not like the game personally, WoW launched MMORPG into mainstream gaming.

 

Yea, I hope they can produce another WoW soon.  I don't think AoC will be as high as WoW since most people play on crappy systems (of the 10 mil).. maybe once on XBox it will have a hope to push over few mil.  WAR looks like the graphics are for those people on slow computers.

Ok I had to put in my 2 cents after I saw these 2 posts...  I know I am going to come off as hating WOW but that is not true.  So here we go...

 

WOW was not a trully MASSIVE breakthrough in MMO's, WOW is actually a baby game by comparasons to MMORPG's as a whole.  I think WOW has taken us a step back not forward in MMO's when it comes to the game as a playable entity.  It has however taken us forward by introducing so many millions of people to a gaming system that exists that everyone can have fun playing.  Now what do I mean by this, its simple, nothing in WOW hasn't being done before, lets face it?  Don't tell me something has when you know games like EQ, AC, UO, DAOC, AO all have done this crap before, all Blizard did was put it to an already very successful franchise.

The graphics are ok but history has shown graphics do not make the game, a friend of mine said once, "I would rather play a game with an excelent short story and crappy graphics, then a game with a crappy long story and the best graphics out at the time."  The same goes for MMO's, people who know the MMO type of games would agree graphics don't make the game.  Do I have to mention the MUD's of old?  Now look at these graphics in WOW are they revolutionary?  No again they have being done before, a few notes on who did this high of graphics before, SWG, AC2 just to name 2 of them.

Gameplay, PVE to start, quest to kill x creatures and return, or get x and return...etc.  Instances that tell you to kill something...etc.  Don't tell me wow revolutionized this, lets go back again, UO, EQ, AC, SWG..etc.  How about PvP, is that revolutionary?  I think not, alot of people have conceded that PvP in WoW is infintile, honestly I can only say one game that destroys when it comes to PvP, AC, but if you must get into what other games have  games like EVE, DAOC and a buch of others do PvP alot better then WOW.  So did WOW revolutionize PvP?  No.

The world is open and you can run anywhere in WOW, maybe that is the revolution you speak of?  No seamless world running has being around for years, AC just to name one.

So I am interested to know what you think makes WOW so revolutionary other then the fact they have 9Million subscibers?  Yes they have set records with this but it is hardly revolutionary.

Revolutionary is taking a chance not going with the norm, and WOW is just a standard cookie cutter MMORPG with more polish to mask it.

Now just so you know I respect WOW for what it is, and praise Blizzard for introducing a world of people to MMO's.  I hope they continue to have success, but I haven't seen anything in WOW to make me reactivate my account.

Okay so WoW didn't do anything new?

 

Three words for you: Customizable interface modifications.  Otherwise known as Mods.

No other game has put the sort of tools to edit the UI in the users hands that WoW did.  And I'm not talking hugely abusable macros, I'm talking the ability to customize how the player interacted with the gameworld into anything they wanted.  Want to see every bit of information possible?  Could be done.  Want to see the entire game world as nothing more than a HUD, with your health and mana bars as two curved bars around your target, his health bar as a curved bar on the right side, and a small circle of buttons that disappeared when you weren't in combat?  Could be done. 

WoW really did something unique, and in my opinion it was an amazing innovation that every game should embrace.  To this day it pisses me off when I can't set things up how I want them to be set up by browsing Curse for 20 minutes. 

have fun :)