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All Posts by Vetarnias

All Posts by Vetarnias

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121 posts found
As is typical in Wurm, the game only comes to life whenever a new server is released. Then two months later it becomes dead again. The recent experiment with Challenge was such an unmitigated failure that I doubt there will be much interest in it in the future.

Wurm's new PvP server, Challenge, sure went well. It's a new concept they came up with to disguise how stagnant the game has become, which involves a map which is wiped after a month, with ultra-fast levelling up and people starting with skills at 20.

All it took was three days to see why Wurm's concept of PvP is so unpopular that the mass of its players stick to the non-PvP servers.

As usual in that kind of PvP game, there's always a faction getting trounced to the point where, for most players in it, the game is no longer worth playing. (I have a knack for picking that one, and I never regret it.)

Now, the capital of the kingdom I picked (Dim Lake on the map, capital of Jenn-Kellon) was located with a suitable buffer zone around it. But someone immediately bought himself a player-made kingdom (around $240 now) and placed it just south of the capital. Then they set about surrounding our capital with a fence, making it impossible for new players (or undeeded players who respawn there) to move out. As of writing, they surrounded 80% of the capital and may well finish this before long.

Oh, and that's not an exploit. That's fine. And the guys behind the player-made kingdom even came up with a lofty excuse: it was, you see, so that they could prevent those poor hapless Jenn-Kellon noobs from venturing on the lands of their kingdom.

It's apparently also not an exploit when they dig the regular supply points right into the ground where nobody can access them.

But Wurm's designers are insistent that dropping one of their new spiked barriers during PvP to hurt the opponent is an exploit.

Oh, and let me remind you that this game's design is built around the cash shop. Since they were trying things out, they waived the premium time requirement this month (which otherwise prevents levelling up above 20). But the deed system is in place, which means having to buy coins from the cash shop to get one, then for the upkeep required to maintain the deed. Also, the sickening part of this PvP system is that the enemy can drain your deed upkeep if they get access to it, but they only receive half of the amount they drain. The other half? Goes back to the designers.

It doesn't take long to figure out that the designers have a vested financial interest in not fixing their PvP design. On top of that, the game mechanics always involved that if you disbanded your deed, you only received half of the upkeep stored in it. For this map, which is designed to be wiped after a month and where the disband decision is in the end not yours to make, the designers changed -- nothing.

But at least now bridges are in. Haha, just kidding. Of course they're not.


It's fun to see the community revolting against the designers' latest move, which will implement a PvP server that's designed to be reset every month.

And I see that bridges are being dangled as an update just around the corner. I heard that before -- in 2012.

AT LEAST they seem to have mostly turned off the trader money faucet loophole that made this game what some people called a pyramid scheme, funneling the money from regular subscribers to the top players.

But anyway. I'm on Celebration, the brand-new server from 2012, now discarded like an aging trophy wife in favour of the new shiny place, Xanadu. Makes you realize that playing this game is futile.

-"Make your mark", the game says. Truth be told, nobody cares what you build, what your place looks like, or how pretty it is. Nobody visits anywhere. Too busy grinding. When your deed runs out, your accomplishments will slowly disappear thanks to decay, and nobody will miss them.  Everywhere you go, you will instead see the remains left by others - bits of pavement, fences with 80% decay, and so on. A new server is pretty for perhaps a month. Then it becomes ugly as hell. If you play this at length, you will feel bad and ashamed of yourself at having wasted so much time in it when in the end nothing of what you accomplish matters.

-The entire game is already designed as a noob repellent.  Veterans don't like noobs because they make the server ugly, or because they cut all the trees while there's still no sickle in the starter kit to make them replant even if they wanted, or because they're freeloaders who refuse to go premium. At the same time, those veterans who want the game even more grindy to turn away even more noobs won't hesitate to pay those same noobs a pittance to do their back-breaking work, like five hundred bricks or a thousand clay, that they can't be bothered to do themselves. (There's still my review from 2012 under the "reviews" tab above if you're interested in more on this subject.) End result: no progression in player numbers, with I guess 3000 players at the most in total, but now spread out over even more servers.

-If you do anything that is in any way useful to the server community, it will either be ignored or monopolized by someone else. Build lamps along the busiest highway? You'll be the only one to maintain them, regardless of how many people live nearby. Open a public mine in which some uncommon ore can be found? It's a matter of days before someone fences it off.  "Deed it or lose it" is not exactly a sentiment likely to lead to some consideration of the public good. There's no community spirit here, only people who talk of the player base of this game as "investors" or "workers" and who make it sound as though cashing out of the game (since Rolf authorizes it while at the same time trying to compete with such people by selling currency in the cash shop himself) is their only interest in playing this in the first place.

Originally posted by shakermaker0

Sounds like you're ralllying against the spirit of what an MMORPG should be - unpredictable, dynamic, and, sometimes, harsh.


CCP don't step into stop griefing because it is part of the fabric of their universe, it's a simulation, and if someone wants to act with the moral compass of an 18th century pirate, then so be it. It's then upto the rest of the playerbase to take up arms against it and dynamically and organically respond - maybe form their own vigilante groups, set bounties, and help out newbies. As soon as you take away this aspect, EO becomes a boring, stale, sterile place. 


And this comes from someone who doesn't play the game, just admires what CCP have managed to create. It isn't perfect but it's about the closest you can get to a virtual world.

Because accusing someone of watching child pornography is oh so part of the EVE universe, you think?

Oh and by the way: CCP doesn not "allow" or "encourage" scams. They just chose (thank god) to not interfere into ingame affairs. Freedom forces responsibilty for your own decisions an actions, a lesson some people didn't understand yet. The same persons calling for freedom in real life are calling for an authoritarian regime with the equivalent of death penalty (perma ban) in the game world.... Which is a double joke, since in a game the consequences of bad decisions don't have an irrepairable effect like they have in real life.

I'll go as far as to say that the only possible reason the Margin Trading skill exists is to let the scammers run wild with it.

Not to mention other features of the game which were used exclusively for scamming, like those player-set courier assignments running through low-sec asking for a stupidly high collateral. I vaguely remember CCP got rid of that because nobody was setting up legitimate offers - they were all scams, and when a scam becomes common knowledge, it's no longer a scam, is it?

"Which brings me to my own experience with griefing and developer apathy.  In early February I decided to help a group of players set up a non-kill on sight area in Stain null sec.  At this same time a player or players created 3 alt accounts, sent those alts out to Stain where they proceeded to follow me from system to system, verbally abusing me in local for hours at a time.  I was called a pedophile and accused of watching child pornography as well as being subjected to constant foul language.  This went on non-stop for 4 months."

And this is the reason why we have this thread in first place. You decided to have care bear piece of space, where all would live in peace and love, in 0.0 space. Its like taking your friends and family into a war zone and then be shocked when they all get shot, maimed and or raped.

As for that guy you had some choices: kill him, put him on ignore list, unsub. Crying on EVEO forums is not on that short list. Because others will come to kill time while their main is laging in 10% TiDi.


If I go to 0.0 space, gank the ever loving f--- out of me if you want. I understand that's part of the game, even if I may not like it. But foul language, accusations of being a pedophile, and this for hours at a time for four months, that's, if anything, immature. But it's more than that; if they've figured out who you are in RL (especially if you've made the mistake of keeping the same in-game name as in other games and they've Googled their way to more information from there),  libelous.


What you don't seem to get is why should it be in CCP's interest that someone can be bullied or intimidated into leaving the game (putting him on ignore isn't enough if he's tailing you at all times just to harass you), and persuading others not to play it as a result of their story. I know that CCP has always pandered to the dregs of online gaming, but what else do they have to keep the company afloat apart from EVE? Dust 514 fizzled, if I remember, and they canned World of Darkness.


And your comment indicates also that you expect every player in EVE to be either a conniving prick or a weakling to be driven out. Guy's a cancer survivor? Clearly a sob story that's a fib from start to finish, and if that's true, he's too weak for EVE! Someone threatens to commit suicide? Obviously a liar, or else he's at the bottom of our Spatial Darwinian order, so either way he's fair game! (And it's not because it appears that his priorities are misplaced - i.e. worrying about a bunch of pixels to the point of considering suicide - that he's necessarily lying, or it's your sacred duty to set him right through abuse if you believe him.) Whenever I hear horror stories from China or Korea about players committing murder based on some humiliation that happened in a game, I think: it's only a matter of time before that happens for something that occurred in EVE. And when that happens, you can bet the response will be very swift on all the little hijinks going on in the game -- if not from CCP, then from government authorities.

If there is something I like about EVE, it's that it is a very atmospheric game. On that level, it's great.


But then there is all the rest which tips the scales against it. And by "the rest", I mostly mean the player base. Sure, you shouldn't trust anyone. But the end result of that is that if you don't know (from real life or at least from another game) anyone who already plays EVE, you're just going to get bored doing single-player stuff because nobody in their right mind would trust a stranger. And there is not much a small group of people can do by themselves either. This is a game where large organized communities (like Goons) can thrive because everything takes place on the meta level. And now these large organized communities have a stranglehold on all political matters surrounding the game. Would anyone regard Mittani as a guru if he weren't a Goon?


The other problem is the skill earning system, in real time. Someone who starts playing today is never going to catch up with someone who has been playing, or rather, subscribed, for a decade. I know it's quite fashionable among some people to say "you only really need x months' worth of skills to be able to get something worthwhile out of a ship", by which they mean a T1 frigate, of course. But even then someone who spent longer at the game is going to be able to get more out of that same frigate - and as the game grows older, it only gets worse. Which explains why CCP is so keen on selling multiple accounts - that's the only way to make their revenues increase if there's no influx of new players.


And by now everything is old. Groups may win or lose a few more systems out in nullsec, but they are always going to be the same groups. The problem with EVE now is that while there is something appealing in the immensity of space, there is nothing left to discover. That reminds me of when Uncharted Waters Online opened its western server. It was brand new, in theory, but the game had been running in East Asia for years, so every aspect of the game was catalogued on Japanese and Korean wikis. Everybody knew what would unlock where and at what level. There was no sense of discovery, none of the fun of trial-and-error approaches. You did everything as the Japanese and Korean wikis told you. And in EVE, it's the same thing. Sure, established players will tend to be parsimonious in dispensing their knowledge, because every bit of information might be something they could use against you - or vice versa - one day, but there is nothing left that nobody has discovered. Whatever it is that you think you'll discover in EVE, you'll just be running into what other people already know. And that's boring.

Reading this, I can't understand why anyone would want to go through this game.
"Horribly unfair" is a double-edged sword. If it appears it's "horribly unfair" because you're not part of a pre-made online community that descends on new games just for the sake of proving how many people they have, then if you're not part of one of those groups, it's not worth it. If it appears it's "horribly unfair" because you didn't start playing nine years ago, then it's not worth beginning to play since the skill system all takes place in real time. It seems EVE is all designed for the veterans, and when they drift away, the game discourages anyone from taking their place.

And yet "human nature" gave us codes of laws, ethics, morals.

The problem with EVE is not so much that "human nature" dictates what it is. It is that the designers themselves came up with a system that pandered to the asshats. And what real life has, and a video game hasn't, is consequences for one's actions. I mean consequences that matter. And in a video game, if you don't like it, you can quit.  It doesn't mean, however, that you can't cause real harm in a video game -- like that guy Mittani urged his cronies to pester into killing himself, for instance. It's perhaps this last point which makes me wary of games that encourage this kind of "human nature".

Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Zarak11
Play some DotA then,ul see the difference.

DOTA communities are like little angels compared to wretched people that play EVE.

No, EVE is a game about using your brains, the ones that complain about the communities here are the ones that got ganked, griefed, scammed because they didnt have the devs holding their hands and hug them when the tear bucket started filling.

I let my subscription run out a few days ago. I have never been griefed, ganked or scammed. But the EVE community is awful. For my part, I don't care about the smack-talking grandstanding that goes on at the official forum, or in those videos from that fest in Iceland. And I've seen all the usual scams, the ones that have been detailed/exposed dozens of times, taking place whenever I went to Amarr/Dodixie/Jita. It's a community so blasé about scamming that nobody seems to take offense. As a result, a game that would seem to have features for so much more is pretty much limited in what happens in it. To be honest, Empire sec is boring and the possibility of ganking makes it more alluring, but I wouldn't enjoy myself as a ganker, and I wouldn't enjoy the sort of gameplay going on in lowsec, let alone nullsec, which is probably why I'm not playing anymore.

What do you know, a pre-emptive scam.
Originally posted by CactusJack

No, No, No. Let me answer this for you good sir. Flying a torp raven for iski's in hi sec is no way to spend your time. 

Let's set your hopes and dreams a bit higher. Keep this in mind.."If your dreams don't scare you, you aren't dreaming big enough".

With the aforementioned knowledge let's evaluate your goals..."Conquer all of New Eden in Six Months."

Ok since time is short and New Eden is a large'll need a few things. First a you want a military campaign to conquer all of New Eden? As you are Nappy Bonapart...I assumed you would. 

I would learn a great deal about scamming and possibly try and weasel your way into a large alliance such as TEST or one of the others. A simple stealing of a few caps ships from careless POS passwords or lack thereof...wouldn't be enough for you. 

You need to affect galaxy wide change. Find a careless titan owner and steal his. Fly that Titan to the other side of the galaxy and hold your own frigate tournament for that titan as the winner's prize. 

Alternately, buy all the rare ships in New Eden. Then self destruct them in Jita or Amarr Prime with 10,000 eyes wet with tears.

"Run a few missions for iskies with a torp raven"..God...that is so 2003. 


Read about The Guiding Hand Social Club. Read about the D20 conspiracy. Read about EvE's Storied past. No one remembers the lvl 4 mission running torp raven pilots. 

YOU could try and start a huge war with lies and deception. Infiltrate someone's TeamSpeak or Ventrillo and tell them you are someone else and have an alt from your target alliance kill them. 

Think my good man. If you are good a making movies...make an awesome EvE related movie...preferably about some of the above topics. a fan fiction movie. Or make something Killer08's movies. 

"Fly a torp isk raping Raven"...that's insulting.

All fine suggestions for any self-respecting emperor.

By the way, does EVE have a solar system called Saint Helena?

The thing with scamming is that there is nothing graceful to it, nothing to admire even as you disapprove of it (for some reason, I'm thinking of that Steve Martin - Michael Caine film Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, with two con artists in Southern France who make a bet as to who will succeed in defrauding a rich lady). It's mostly stupid stuff, like 50,000 zydrine at 600 apiece = 300 million, or selling the wrong ship, or that margin buying scam where the scammer will use a three-pronged approach, one to set up a fake buy order, one to sell every item on the regional market, and one to advertise how good a deal that is (if it's that good a deal, why don't you buy it yourself?). It's stupid, it's annoying, but I guess it works. On whom, I don't know. Prices are too expensive for newbies, and veterans should be aware of all the tricks already.

As for the "community", the funny thing is that I'm not even sure there is one, except the trash talkers on the official forum which do succeed in making the entire player base look like self-absorbed jackasses. Instead, EVE is what happens when nobody is encouraged to trust anyone; the "community" disintegrates into small groups of people you already know. There seems to be a sort of camaraderie among miners, because mining is the mark of the carebear, I suppose, but for anything more fun, it seems entirely about distrust.

Also, I do recall that people - Goons, not surprisingly - did rally around Mittani when he made that utterly tasteless "if you want to make the guy kill himself" - something that's a crime in Iceland, by the way. And see how other threads on this very forum, not to mention the official forum, still treat him like a guru whose blog they follow assiduously. They've allowed Mittani to become an ambassador for the game, and the ambassador ended up drunk in public and said, with cameras rolling (I'm old-fashioned), that a guy should be encouraged to commit suicide. Not just a famous player and the most visible spokesman for one of the largest alliances in the game, but also one that the player base elected to the CSM and undoubtedly would have re-elected to the function to this day if he had not come to his senses (perhaps with a liberal dose of CCP arm-twisting).

Even with Mittani out of the picture, Goons still behave like they run the game. The other day, I was passing through a system in Caldari space when I saw over local chat that they were bullying ice miners for violating their so-called interdiction: "Everyone stop mining now!" diktats and so on.

There's no community, but there is a caste system. The big boys and their nullsec alliances on top, with their occasional war but usually busy basking in a Cold War situation where they don't like the other guys because they don't like the other guys, and otherwise pissing off the carebears when they get bored. (Nobody ever forced them to find a good reason for it.) The lowsec pirates getting whatever crumbs they can get. And at the bottom, the complete bottom, the Empire carebears and their missions, and mining, and -- what else is there, really? That huge battle that there was a few weeks ago? Out in Empire, it was utterly insignificant. When I heard about it, I thought "they're playing a completely different game, one I'll never get the opportunity to see". At the bottom, there is nothing, and it's boring; and at the top, sociopaths I don't want to interact with.

Originally posted by Kyleran
Not quite following all the details, but it seems the OP thought he saw an opportunity to take advantage of someone on the market and make a profit, but by not understanding the game mechanics ended up losing money.

If so, I'm not seeing this as a scam, people get burned in margin trading all the time in the real world, heck I knew a guy who at first made over 250k doing it but when the bottom dropped out lost everything he owned.

I don't really see a scam, more like the typical risk associated with trading of this sort.

But hey, we all get scammed sometime, heck, I was tired one night and bought a Badger 2 for 750M but was my fault for falling for it.

The difference with the person you knew doing margin trading and EVE is that in the real world there is oversight of such trading, and appropriate laws to punish fraudulent activity. In EVE, there's nothing at all -- no guarantee, and in some cases the game seems specifically designed to encourage such scamming. I read, for instance, about the direct trading mechanism, which allows the other player to switch the item he's selling you at the last second before concluding the sale. Every MMO out there has a better trading mechanism, one that asks for confirmation before you do the trade. In EVE, you have contracts, I guess, but it just adds a step to the trade process.


And let's not forget that since the addition of PLEX, it's possible to be scammed out of real money. This is where I'm especially critical of CCP. Before PLEXes existed, it didn't really matter, because the money in the game was all self-contained and you only had to pay for a subscription. PLEX allowed the injection of real money into the game economy, and it can now be assumed that whatever is the current rate in ISK for a PLEX is worth at least $17.50 (on the cheapest plan). That a player cannot cash out of EVE is probably what shields CCP from criminal prosecution (not that I know Icelandic laws, but I'm guessing they do have something in place against online fraud), but even if the money injected cannot come out it does make scamming highly unethical once real money is involved.

Originally posted by Hazelle

In less than 10 minutes of searching I found an untouched belt three jumps from my main trade hub.

I'm looking at all kinds of Scordite, Veldspar, and Plagioclase.

I picked 4 belts at random and of the 4 belts I visited only one was picked clean and another one had a pilot working on it but she had a long way to go.  I will also add that the belt that was picked clean had a nice view so it's probably a favorite in this system.

Server restart is about one hour away.

I call shenanigans on this thread.

I guess that depends on where and what.

I'm based in a relatively quiet highsec system, and scordite is generally gone within a few hours, as it seems to be what appears to be popular around here.  The better varieties of other ores tend to disappear very rapidly as well.

Originally posted by lordporkins

 will I need to be a button expert or macro ace to stand any chance of competing?

More like a time machine; skill progression is in real time.

Originally posted by Ahnog
There's no inequity in having alts. A bit jealous are we?

Not really. I tried playing two characters at once in Wurm Online (which is just about as grindy as EVE at its worst), where characters are free if you're satisfied with a level cap, and I hated myself for doing it, for becoming everything I despised, for just pursuing efficiency at the expense of enjoying the game. I quit Wurm shortly after that.


But Wurm didn't really give someone a competitive advantage (not on the PvE servers anyway) for playing more than one account at once, just personal convenience because everything takes so much time (1 mining action = 20 seconds or so). I do remember however a game like Uncharted Waters Online where multis were rampant, and where using them significantly increased your revenue. And there too, the game was free to play, so you might have as many alts as you liked (the logic they used was no more than one account per computer, so if you had six accounts on six computers, that was fine by them, and when I left they were even thinking of relaxing it.)


In a subscription game like EVE, it's even worse because you know the developers have everything to gain by doing nothing whatsoever to stop the multis. If the multi owners don't pay real money, then they'll buy PLEX from someone who did. And it does wreck the game for everyone else and turns it into pay to win (in which case, I'd rather play something that allows me at least the possibility of not paying anything).


Originally posted by ronpaulrox
friends are like free alts who perform better under pressure, just make friends

I wonder how many mid-sized corporations have less members than that guy has accounts.

I'm guessing you mean PLEX. Well, I always objected to PLEX from the moment I first played the game (2009; I've just returned) precisely because it created a valuable commodity that was not obtained in the game itself by playing the game. And those multi parasites just feed off the PLEX buyers.

Impossible to say, really; and besides, since CCP actively encourages alts, it's perfectly legal to be running as many accounts as you like, provided you don't abuse what few rules exist in this game.  But imagine how easily someone like that could keep a string of starbases running all by himself, and hire mercenaries should his corp (as all his alts seem to belong to the same) get war-decced. 

I simply don't like pay-to-win, and what is running several accounts in a subscription game but the extension of real-life class inequality into a video game?

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