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All Posts by Adamantine

All Posts by Adamantine

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3028 posts found
MMOs need permadeath because thats a 100% reliable way to never ever get me as a paying customer ...
Originally posted by jonesing22
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by avatarair

The day where new MMOs are coming out all the time to suit all types of playstyles is when I'll be happy but right now the genre feels so shallow to me in the upcoming year. 

With hundreds of MMOs currently available covering countless playstyles and plenty more in development, if you can't find an MMO that caters to your playstyle, the problem isn't MMOs. 

Find me a MMO with all the following:

 

*3 Faction PvP

*No FFA PvP

*No Character Levels

*No Zone Levels

*No Zone Pathing

*Fantasy themed

*Sandbox world building

*crafting that isnt built on useless grind of useless items

*PvP Siege and Keep battles on large scale

*Multiple playable races that are unique

*Classes

*Dynamic Events

*Raid Dungeons

*Fantasy Gear style and Realistic gear

*No Harsh Death Penalty

*Cross Platform interaction.

 

 

I will stop there for now.

If you find it, please link. Minus the cross platoform and no (harsh) death penalty It would rule the mmorpg genre.

I agree that the statement "if you cant find a MMO that fits you, the problem lies in yourself" is riddiculous. Most games out there are clones of others. There is really not that much variance available.

 

The only game that gets close to what I want to play is Vanguard, which is currently closing down. The only hope for a game that replaces it sufficiently is Pantheon, which wont be out before 2017 and already looks like a substantial step back in important areas (only 12 abilities at a time, which didnt worked for me at all in Guild Wars, and realtime movements in combat, which puts people with bad ping, such as myself, at a strong disadvantage).

 

I would like to point out that the game just described wouldnt interest me much either:

- 3 faction PvP: I dont like games that enforce PvP

- No character levels: This at least would make me extremely suspicious for a lack of depth of the rulesystem

- Sandbox world building: this is a kind of gameplay I'm not interested in

- Dynamic Events: in my understanding this is a trickery to force people being online 24/7 to avoid being undergeared. At very least the rewards given out at such events should either be only decorative, or attainable through other ways.

- No harsh death penalty: I avoid any extremes here. Death Penalty should be there. It shouldnt be overly hard, but it also shouldnt be neglible.

 

Uh, in short, because they are immature kiddos that somehow have it stuck in their head if they like it, for some reason everybody else must like it too.

Like for example that guy on YouTube, NerdCubed, who cant help but insult pretty much anyone not agreeing with his perfectly subjective personal preferences of games during his videos (Quite often he states stuff like "if you havent played game X, you arent alife" etc, refering to games like Worms that would bore other people, like for example myself, to death very quickly). Also sometimes diet preferences ("People who dont eat meat are stupid"), politics, religion, etc.

NerdCubed videos arent bad otherwise, by the way. He's pretty funny and entertaining, and overall I enjoy his movies because I get a bit of an insight about games I wouldnt play myself anyway, so I kind of get an idea about what else is out there.

Another example are the countless idiots on sites like IMDB.com who keep telling you stuff like "you're gay" if you arent into whatever female celebrity they are themselves. Made worse by the fact they are usually refering to busty barbie type women like Angelina Jolie. Uuuuh ... thanks, but no thanks ? If you want her, you can have her, I really dont care. You'll have to fight with Brad Pitt for that one, not with me.

I'd say just ignore that b.s. and move on.

 

I think Lineage 2 is a good example why too harsh death penalties are a bad idea, too.

No death penalty means you dont care about dying at all.

Too harsh penalties mean you never take a risk. Which is a dull kind of gaming indeed.

Again, thats why I want a death penalty like it was in Vanguard. You definitely had a penalty, but it wasnt TOO overly harsh.

I expect a mechanism like in Vanguard.

Which had corpse runs, but you could also admit failure and accept a monetary penalty instead.

Also Vanguard allowed to soulbind gear to yourself, which meant all your stuff would stay on you after death. That made corpse runs a LOT easier, obviously.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

What does it matter if they think grinding is a bad thing? In fact, it doesn't even matter if grinding truly IS a bad thing. It's what's known as a "Necessary Evil" Simple as that. If you don't work for a reward, then it's not really a reward. Gifts do not come with a sense of accomplishment. As it is, we simply do not have the ability to create sustained content that is fresh. It's just not possible in our current MMO state. Maybe someday we can expect  procedurally generated content based on meta-data, but for now, we don't. Therefore, existing content has to be repeatable. OR......it can be dynamic based on what the players decide to make or do.

For the record, neither does a sense of accomplishment come from TOO MUCH GRIND.

For example farming for days for whatnot in Lineage 2 ? Thats just purest pain, nothing else. Wondering if your brain will turn to glee anytime soon, and drip out of your ears.

The only thought you have after such "challenges" are OH MY GOD THANK GOD THATS OVER.

Originally posted by AIMonster

1.  Group size will be at least 6 player

2.  There is a focus on having less quests, but quests will be more epic

3.  Each class has two different specializations

4.  Items in Pantheon will be harder to obtain and won't be replaced as quickly.

1. a) The Boogie interview or if not that one, then some of the Kickstarter videos have Brad McQuaid stating they think about group sizes between 6 and 8. I would prefer 8 and frankly I would just allow 12. Thats 12 because thats a human builtin limit: anything above 12 people is no longer a group to anyone, because you cannot have relations to more than 12 people at any given time, your brain is not built for that. Thus any group of humans above the size of 12 will break into subgroups.

1. b) Also I would like to point out that high group sizes is simply an option you have. You dont NEED a full group. Even with the 6 people group limit in Vanguard most of my groups have been much smaller. Before endgame, at least, because things became silly in the endgame. But before that I had successful and quite efficient dungeon runs with 3 people (tank - healer - dps). And I had quite a lot quite effective 2 people groups, such as Dread Knight and Ranger. Its much harder and slower than with a full group, you die a lot more and have to step much more carefully, but its often possible, and its actually more fun because its more of a challenge.

2. They focus on quest areas which are optional, but more involved. Vanguard had a ***load of quests, but it already also had quest areas with questlines like that. So thats not really something new, they'll just leave all the stupid boring quests out this time, which I wont miss.

3. I dont think thats much of a "great option". WoW and SWTOR have 3 subclasses per class, for example. Personally I prefer to only have subclasses if the subclasses really make a strong difference and you dont end up with one trick wonder classes, but with two strong different approaches to the same classes that result in a lot of options from a different perspective.

4. a)  I am not aware this has ever been stated anywhere ? Quite on the contrary. In Pantheon, if you kill a guy with a sword, you'll loot a sword. Thats much easier than what Vanguard had. Also, ALL items are tradeable, even quest rewards. Only quest items (not the final rewards) are not tradeable. This again is easier what Vanguard did. They do plan for a lot of secondary mechanisms though to avoid "mudflation", such as exchanging valueable items in temples for longtime buffs.

4. b) the best items will probably be again be archieved from Quests ... but thats a mechanism already known from Vanguard.

 

 

Originally posted by Maquiame

Several of the class subsets have dual roles like the Cleric which has a dps/heals subset Battle Cleric: A melee healer that wears full plate armor and can wield a variety of blunt weapons and shields

In many current mmorpgs the class requirements for your average party is usually so strict that there is no room to move around.  [...]

What also plays into this is Everquest's dungeons were open dungeons. Pantheon will be doing the same [...]

One of the things the team is considering is putting what they call "climates" into areas. [...]

[...] Brad mmorpgs for a fact often implement faction better than anyone else. [...]

The lore was conveyed in a much more organic way.  Everyone knew that druids and hill giants hated each other because they fought right out in the open -all the time-. [...]

1. About Cleric: This part of your posting is confusing. Just to make this clear: The dps build of the Cleric will be one that wears robes. The heavy armor build however is more likely the tank-ish healer.

1.b) This was already the case with Vanguard. Almost everyone had a main and a secondary task. So the Paladin was tank/healer, Dread Knight was tank/dps/debuffer, Warrior was tank/dps/group buffer, Ranger was dps/buffer, Rogue was dps/cc (aggro control)/exploration, Bard obviously dps/group buffer/crowd control, Cleric was healer/tank, Shaman was healer/debuffer, Blood Mage was healer/dps, Disciple was healer/crowd control/wipe survival. I think the only class that was really just one thing was Sorcerer, the all out damage class that otherwise could cast invisibility and elemental resistances on others, and do reflect and deflect magic, other than selfbuffing and a ***load of attack spells. But Vanguard really wasnt like EQ, for the later apparently knew Warrior as the "true" tank and Cleric as the "true" healer and everybody else was kind of a bad idea to have for raids. At least thats what people in the game told me about EQ.

2. Group size: depends upon the game really. As I said, most of my Vanguard groups did NOT have 6 people in them. That only became true in the endgame when you need 6 people in best setup AND one of each class with buffs to buff your group up for tolerable performance, not to mention everyone in the group needed best possible raid gear etc. Ugh, that was not fun at all.

3. Actually, they want some instancing in dungeons, in order to be able to tell a story.

4. Climates in dungeons. Okay, another thing to think about it, but I fail to see the big gameplay improvement from this. Its an okay feature but I wouldnt actually miss it much if they would drop it, either. This is really one of these features that people make SO BIG and if you think about it for a moment, you'll realize it wont affect actual gameplay much anyway.

5. Meh. I see faction more as a boring and annoying grind really, no matter how they are done. I would much rather prefer if you had to solve fun quest chains to improve your status with a faction, instead of endless mob killing grinds, and also if factions would be per country, not per race.

6. Lore never bothered me much, to be honest. The way to get lore in Vanguard was by the Diplomacy. Unfortunately I really hate card games. So guess how eager I was in Vanguard to learn diplomacy.. Even worse, the game in the end FORCED you to be maxlevel Diplomat and maxlevel Crafter ! I really hated that.

 

 

Originally posted by Dancwith 

I can get down with a 6 man group.  Although, im not sure i like the 2 tank, 2 heal, 2 dps model mentioned above.  I do like other models which endorse Crowd control, Buff mechanics and so on.

If they can pull off the climate interactions proposed, then that would be a huge step for them.

Class Specializations - I would prefer a large variety in class capabilities (See: Rifts class system). 

Content has been the biggest reason that MMO's have failed soon after launch.  Rift, SWTOR, Aion, soon to be ESO....... all lacked end game content. [..]

1. Groups with 2T, 2H, 2DD: I dont expect PRotF to be the same as Vanguard. It seems a bit like that in this game, tanks will have less options of aggro control than in Vanguard ? Or maybe I'm just reading too much between the lines. Either way, one definitely didnt needed a CC like a Psi or Bard in a Vanguard group. The reason every group in Vanguard wanted a Bard was that these have been horribly overpowered. To the degree that "quest without bard = impossible, quest with bard = trivial".

But at least 2 healers was the standard feature of Vanguard grouping, because a single healer really didnt have enough healing. Also healer classes in Vanguard have been so strong, they have been very popular. The monk healer, Disciple, was basically the godmode of the game.

The second tank was a good idea simply because many mobs in Vanguard, especially in the highlevel dungeons, have been basically immune to CC. Offtanking them with a real tank, or offtanking them with a Cleric was thus much better.

2. Climates - As I said, I dont think this is much of an important feature.

 

3. Classes - Uh-hu. I will definitely not play a game with anything like the Rift class system. Thats enforced multiclassing, a truely awful class concept that sucked in every instance of it I've ever seen. Thats because

(a) If at all, its even worse than pure skillbased systems when it comes to balancing.  Thanks to the extreme complexity of the problem, the devs will fail to ever sufficiently balance the whole thing.

(b) In the end there wont be more variance at all, because any even remotely competitive player will only use the few setups that have good synergies. Everyone not using such a setup will be the sucking oddball.

(c) Also, all possibilities to make truely different classes vanish, since everyone shares the same core mechanisms. As a very simple example, every healer will be wearing heavy armor.

Thus I prefer a large number of real classes that get carefully balanced against each other and can have a truely different gameplay, by adding or completely removing aspects other classes dont or do have to care about.

As a sidenote: optional multiclassing would be by the way fine with me, as long as its balanced enough (when it doubt, just make the multiclass weaker than the pure classes, thats easy enough to do to yield tolerable enough results).

 

4. Meh. If the rest of the game rocks, I would just try out other classes until the endgame content starts piling up. Also, I never was one to hurry to endgame, anyway. I much rather would enjoy the travel. One of the reasons I dont like powerguilds.

 

 

Originally posted by syriinx

2.  Its not lack of content thats the reason, its that they rushed people to the end game.  Slow leveling curves are terrible for retention.  Yes, some dont like 'grind' and will quite because of it, but the ones that stay are more invested.  Another factor is the 'grind' was more fun in EQ because the slower combat mechanics allowed for a more social experience.  Yet there was a significantly greater sense of danger in EQ so the combat was slower, but far more tense.

I only call stuff a "grind" when I have to do a repetitive action again and again, not if I have to do a lot of different questlines each which its own storyline.

 

I just would like to point out that people like me, who have played Vanguard for 7 years, learned nothing new from that interview.

The reasons why Vanguard came out the way it came out have long ago already been discussed on Brad McQuaids website many years ago already. That interview offered no new information.

 

People like this really confuse me. If you spend a lot of money, INFORM YOURSELF WHAT YOU ARE BUYING !!!! Seriously, does this really need to be said explicitly ?!? It sounds so obvious to me. But really, you really cant blame anyone else but yourself on this. That Vanguard was unfinished was no secret at all. Besides, I bougth collector edition too and I played it for 7 years (with a pause). Guess what, I was knowing what I was getting into ! Because, you know, I informed myself before I spent money ! For the same reason I didnt spend money on, lets say, Age of Conan, World of Warcraft, etc etc etc. Also, the collector edition wasnt that expensive in the first place, anyway. No game is, compared to hardware, or internet connection.

I'm not exactly sympathetic to Blizzard, and I dont give a damn about WoW, but purely from a business perspective they would be really stupid if they would switch to F2P with WoW.

The core of any business is first keeping your customers, not first hunting after customers of other companies. Full F2P conversion will alienate a lot of the people who still play WoW, and if it will even only just attract enough F2P player to just compensate your losses from the established playerbase is doubtful, let alone that these new players would actually generate more monetary income.

What Blizzard could do is of course create separate games that are published under a different company name, thus not hurting the established name of Blizzard themselves.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Fenrir767
Mine craft your building things and can be played in short snippets. Not even close BC to progress in SWG it was a huge time commitment and to many people not a fun one.

Here's another misconception. SWG and games like it, were played for more than just fun. In fact, many times we weren't playing for fun at all. We were playing for the accomplishments. A sense of satisfaction. Something that is missing now-a-days.

So you think accomplishments are not fun ?

 

The best group you could have in Vanguard was really 2 tank, 2 healer, 2 dps. Having 2 healers means half aggro for either of them, meaning they get more rarely aggro. Having two tanks means one is the main and can tank the boss under attack, while the other can switch between offensive and defensive stance depending upon how tight the situation is. The only case when this doesnt worked so well was with two paladins, because Paladin doesnt have such a great offense really, at least not pre-raid.

Also, no matter which character happends to crash, you could still go on.

 

I have played Vanguard from start to end, with only one pause. I had over 100 days playtime on my main Vangaurd character - which I got a bit sick of in the end, though, but I had a ton of fun with a different character afterwards. I had two accounts in the end, even.

So yeah, PRotF definitely gets a very close look from me. Still not decided, though. A lot of things about it sound absolutely great.

 

 

Originally posted by asrlohz

And you know how horrible modern AAA MMO launches are?

Nobody claims PRotF would be a AAA MMO. For that, you need more like 80 Mio $, not 800k $.

 

 

Originally posted by azzamasin
I hope it does well but I already know I'll never play it.  Sounds very much like it's going to be a very tactical slow ass combat system with a plethora of skills and hot bars full of abilities.  Not my cup of tea but I wish it well.

Your information gathering skill needs a serious upgrade. While this is still in current discussion and subject to change, right now PRotF will have 12 abilities in the quickbar that you have to preselect out of combat from a larger amount of abilities you learn, and you have to react to opponent actions in realtime.

 

 

Originally posted by oubers

IF any of you can provide me 5 (hell....i would be gladd if you provided me 3) GOOD GAMEPLAY footage movies from this game.

LOL !!!

This game is still in the early design stages. There isnt even an alpha version (thats planned for 2015). There is no gameplay so far whatsoever. The best thats out there is some example dungeon designs.

Also, sorry, but you dont sound like much of a roleplaying game fan to me. People who demand gameplay footage are usually into egoshooters. Star Wars: The Old Republic for example had quite awful, outdated graphics. Nobody cared.

 

And again I seem to be disproved the moment I posted something !

 

Over at the other forum they have people claiming that kickstarter campaigns gain speed in the first and last 48 hours.

So apparently the chance that Pantheon might actually start or not is not yet set in stone !

I'll be optimistic about it, then.

 

Originally posted by thecapitaine
Originally posted by Adamantine

R.I.P. Vanguard. Best MMO ever, but its gone now. Its kind of sad, but it also means I'll not be tempted to return.

 

MMOs are over now, for me. It was fun while it lasted !

 

The dev behind the creation of Vanguard has launched a kickstarter for a new MMO with similar design concepts.  It's a long way off still but if this type of game appeals to you, no reason to quit forever.

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen

Thanks.

I noticed this very shortly after my initial posting.

Now I'm actually contemplating to join the kickstarter, which is funny, considering I was set on giving up on MMOs completely before.

I mean its sadly obvious that the kickstarter will probably fail, but at least I could drive the number up a bit at which it failed.

 

There is no point in making such a questline if the game is empty anyway in the first place ! ;-)

 

Well isnt that already very well documented now ?

Sigil Games is to blame for being too inexperienced and not making good contracts with Microsoft.

SOE basically was sympathetic, but didnt had the budget to save Vanguard. They probably also didnt really liked the idea of having a concurrence to their EQ2, even if Vanguard was conceptionally superior.

There are also a couple other problems, such as too high graphic demands. But overall Vanguard could have been a huge success if they had received full funding and would have been able to release on schedule, instead of at least half a year too early.

Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

[...] We don't need kickstarters to get the game we want, we need to vote with our feet. [...]

That would simply mean I would never again play a MMO.

With kickstarter, I can support something that would otherwise never be done.

 

Originally posted by tawess

A: it is about as democratic as a market gets.

B: It does give some really wild and crazy ideas a chance to bloom in to at least prototypes, and we need that.

That being said, crowd funding is a bit like BitCoins... A bubble that will implode and settle in to a much less impressive but still viable form.

I dont see what the point of Bitcoins is. Whats the crucial advantage there, over ordinary money ? Especially I think the whole concept is screwed up because there is only a limited, fixed amount of Bitcoins. Thats worse than the gold standard and the later didnt worked out either.

Crowdfunding though allows you to give money in order to make your dreamproject come true. Makes a lot of sense to me.

A kickstarter means that you'll turn into an investor.

That means you risk money.

I dont see whats so evil about that ? Just make sure you really believe in that investment !

For example I just found out last week theres a kickstarter for a Vanguard successor: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. Its kickstarter is running until Feb 22. I'm strongly thinking of joining it. Vanguard is shutting down - Pantheon would be a great replacement. In some ways its even preferable over the original.

As a constant hobby for wasting money - certainly not. The average gaming kickstarter will probably suck. Thats pretty obvious.

 

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