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All Posts by Wraithone

All Posts by Wraithone

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3351 posts found
Originally posted by Korhindi

Since when do true carebears need PKers?

Take away the PKers and the carebears are happy.  They play the game and go on.

It is the PKers who need the carebears.  Not only do they need a target rich environment, but they feed off the chaos and havoc they create amongst the carebears.  No carebears to cry and whine = sheer boredom for the PK/Griefer.

Most Pkers in MMO's are not into the challenge of a good and fair fight, for those folks who enjoy "the sport" are already playing Medal of Honor, Counterstrike and so on. 

No, PKers see themselves as the lions preying on the wilderbeasts.  But get this, wilderbeasts do just fine where there are no lions, but lions die out really fast when the prey is gone.  Sure, the wilderbeast population might explode and then many die due to starvation, but in the end, there still will be wilderbeasts.

A carebear MMO can function just fine without PVP (PKers or not).

PKers cannot function without the targets... I mean... carebears.

 

 

Excellent points. Its not only that though. Most gankers/griefers would do rather poorly in a total PvP system.  What they count on(no, what they must have) is unwilling/inexperienced targets. Put most of them in to a game with real PvP type players, and they would soon leave.  We CareBears would do just fine without them. If I want PvP I'll go play UT3, Quake4 or Section 8.  Games that have been designed from the ground up to be PvP.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Its funny, cause if this was SOE everyone would be frothing at teh mouth about how evil they are.

 

You mean that SOE isn't Evil??<blink, blink>  Thats like saying that water at room temperature isn't wet Blizzard has to my knowledge never officially stated that there would be a hero class with each expansion. Which is just as well considering how they messed up the death knight class.  It started out being a blast to play. After months and months of nerfing, I can't see the point any more. 

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

The problem with solo friendly games, in my opinion, is NOT finding groups, or getting in groups, or being invited to groups, or starting a group.

I have NEVER had a problem playing in groups in solo friendly games. I had no problem getting in group after group, or starting groups, in games like WoW, and City of Heroes, which I consider solo friendly games.

 

I would like a game that has good group content, like DAoC before all the expansions, and the original EQ.

If you can understand I am not complaining about finding groups, I am not trying to force anyone to group with me because I can't find groups, we can continue the debate.

But it's impossible to debate with someone that avoids the real issue.

It's like I'm saying my steak is over cooked, and the chef says, well it's not to spicy at all! Yes, I know, the spice is fine, I said it's over cooked. And then the chef says, why don't you like spicy steak? It's really good?

I keep saying, I want different sort of game play. And the solo advocate says, why are you having trouble finding groups? Is that your fault that you can't find a group.

I HAVE NO TROUBLE FINDING GROUPS IN SOLO GAMES!

And the solo advocate says, Why do you need to force me to group with you. Is it because can't find anyone to group with you?

I HAVE NO TROUBLE FINDING GROUPS IN SOLO GAMES!

My point about group vs solo is NOT about finding groups in solo friendly games. I can find groups in solo friendly games, that has never been a problem, that is not why I want a good grouping game. I'm not saying I can't find groups, so I need people to be forced to group so I can get in a group.

I can find groups in WoW and CoH, but after I do the game play is NOT as good as a group based game, in my opinion.

But I dont' think the solo advocate will get it. They will still counter all my points, with well you CAN find a group in these solo games you know! These games dont' stop you from grouping if you try!

YES I KNOW! I CAN ALWAYS FIND GROOUPS IN SOLO GAMES< That's NOT THE PROBLEM!

 

 

<Wide eyed innocent look mode:ON>

So, you have trouble finding groups in solo friendly games?

Sorry, The Devil(Or is that Smed?) made me do it.

I understand what you are saying, but the horrors of PUG's tend to put many people off of looking for groups. When I'm looking for a group, I seldom have trouble finding one. But some times its just too much trouble, for too little return.

Zzulu, has it dawned on you that my response was anything but trolling? It was a reasoned response to what I consider an appalling attitude.  If more people spoke up in the face of such ignorance, we wouldn't be in our current sorry situation.  If anyone is trolling here it is you. Lets get back to MMO's, shall we?.

Originally posted by Tisiphone

 


Originally posted by garn
You are so wrong and I take it from your statement you live either in the USA or one of the old school Sharia law countries. In said countries where I assume you live, it might be the norm to shoot someone breaking in.Yyes its legal, but that does not make shooting a robber a thing you're expected to do in a civilized society.

 

Hold, friend. Please don't go around pointing fingers at the rest of us just because you found yourself an troll. For the record, there are very few places in the USA where you can shoot somebody who is breaking and entering your home and get off scot-free.

It is certainly not the norm, and very rarely legal to use excessive force on somebody who has illegally entered your home. Laws normally dictate that your life or safety or that of other people (not your belongings) have to be actively at risk, and that you haven't any other reasonable options.

EDIT: FYI - here are some examples of laws:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine_in_the_United_States

 

Trust someone from Chicago to agree with a Good Subject from one of the European countries...  Its too bad that so many of the eastern Peoples Republics have long since forgotten the original intent of the Founders/Framers in regards to personal defense and other basic human rights. I doubt that this will mean anything to one such, but perhaps others would like the facts, rather than collectivist spin.  What is even more amusing is that one of the foremost scholars on the subject is also from your city. His name is John Lott. He wrote a fascinating book on the subject of guns and crime. It turns out that the reality is rather different from the distortions that those who favor victim disarmament have attempted to spread.

www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

They might also be interested in the recent supreme court decision on the subject of the second amendment.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

With that having been said, lets move this to private if you wish. We now return you to your regular MMO discussion.

Originally posted by garn
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Xondar123
Originally posted by Reborn17

I don't like the assertion that violence is inherently wrong. If I kill a guy who breaks into my house, I've done nothing wrong, if I somehow can stop him without doing so great, but if that doesn't seem an option, he had it comin.  Same with the so called "Anti-Pks", their avenging the weak and the innocent is not "wrong" because it is PKing the offender. The day violence is no longer an option plan on becoming its daily doormat.

 

It is wrong to kill someone for breaking into your house. We live in a civilized society that offers alternatives to murder. If your life is directly threatened, and you have no alternatives, then it can be justifiable to murder someone who is trying to murder you.

The ends do not justify the means.

 

No. It is NOT wrong to kill someone who is breaking into your home.  They have already demonstrated hostile intent by their actions. Taking counter actions is simply defense of oneself and family. A *civilized* society would expect and demand such. Its only drones and their masters who insist that everyone(except the master classes enforcers) be unarmed and helpless.  But you are quite right, in that ends do not justify the means used to achieve them. Which is richly ironic when one applies that to coercive government... PvP is generally a bad idea in most MMO's. It is usually slapped on to appease the PK crowd, and thus increase the demographic the game appeals to. Which of course is one reason that MMO PvP is generally a bad idea, as it ends up being rather poorly implimented.  I quite enjoy many FPS games, because they are designed from the very start as PvP games. As for the current crop of FFA/full loot games, its too little, far too late. The majority of the audience has moved on to other types of games.

 

You are so wrong and I take it from your statement you live either in the USA or one of the old school Sharia law countries. In said countries where I assume you live, it might be the norm to shoot someone breaking in.Yyes its legal, but that does not make shooting a robber a thing you're expected to do in a civilized society. Unless you want to exclude pretty much all countries in Europe from "civilized society", because in most EU countries (I havnt done research so I dont know if its all of them) you are not allowed to use force thats excessive when compared to the crime being comitted against you. Meaning that you WILL go to jail if you kill or even shoot at someone who is trying to rob you, if you have no reason to believe your life is in danger.

Overall to me as I would expect from most people with what I would regard as a modern humane view on others, this should be the correct way for society to work. If you need to be allowed to shoot someone who only wants some of your earthly belongings without endangering your own existence, then you probably live in a place that is not very civilized because way too many people havent got a chance to succeed in life and there fore resorts to robbery. 

 

In conclusion, yes its fine to shoot a robber if you want to have a wild west country, but seeing as you brought "civilized" into the discussion, then no, its not fine. It belongs in the past because a civilized country gives all its citizens no matter what their social background is a chance to succeed in life, and even takes proper care of those who fail while trying, so that we dont end up in a wild west state where half the citizens are robbing others just to get food on the table.

 

I'm always amused by the pathetic attitudes of the *subjects* of the various European countries. You've all been so totally conditioned by your ruling classes to be Good Citizens, that you really don't understand the first thing about basic human rights.  Thankfully, many of our Founders/Framers understood those basic rights.  Sadly, those have been badly eroded in all too many places by the American version of your ruling class.  I'd hardly term what passes for government(and hence the society that such breeds) in many such places to be *civilized'.  In a civilized society, the individual and their rights *and* responsibilities are the central focus. Quite unlike far too many collectivist systems that place much more value on the abstract known as "society", rather than the individuals involved. 

I note how you attempt to frame the argument above. A reasonable person(phrase of art) would be justified in assuming hostile intent  on the part of those breaking into ones home. How far one goes in that defense would depend on the situation. But it naturally *would* include the option of  killing them if it was warranted.   It doesn't matter what tragic story one can tell about their background and current circumstances. The fact remains that they took actions that placed others life in potential danger.  They should thereby expect the consequences.  

Originally posted by Zzulu

Crafting and PvE is made just about a hundred times more interesting if the resources available are contested by other players and factions via PvP. This creates a metagame, which elevates the entire gaming experience.

For this reason, carebears benefit from the system as well. Just look at EVE. Most people there are carebears.

 

 

Said CareBears tend to stay in high sec and never leave. PvP is engaged in by those in low and no sec. Or those at war with other corporations(or flagged). Then of course, there are those insane enough to try ganking in high sec. Concord ALWAYS has the final say in that. The evolution of Concord is a fascinating example of the endless arms race between the gankers/griefers and the Dev's.  At each step along that path, the gankers/griefered howled that it would be the very end of the game! Which is nonsense, as CCP is only protecting its business model.  But the howls of outraged gankers/griefers is such SWEET music to my furry CareBear ears.

Originally posted by Xondar123
Originally posted by Reborn17

I don't like the assertion that violence is inherently wrong. If I kill a guy who breaks into my house, I've done nothing wrong, if I somehow can stop him without doing so great, but if that doesn't seem an option, he had it comin.  Same with the so called "Anti-Pks", their avenging the weak and the innocent is not "wrong" because it is PKing the offender. The day violence is no longer an option plan on becoming its daily doormat.

 

It is wrong to kill someone for breaking into your house. We live in a civilized society that offers alternatives to murder. If your life is directly threatened, and you have no alternatives, then it can be justifiable to murder someone who is trying to murder you.

The ends do not justify the means.

 

No. It is NOT wrong to kill someone who is breaking into your home.  They have already demonstrated hostile intent by their actions. Taking counter actions is simply defense of oneself and family. A *civilized* society would expect and demand such. Its only drones and their masters who insist that everyone(except the master classes enforcers) be unarmed and helpless.  But you are quite right, in that ends do not justify the means used to achieve them. Which is richly ironic when one applies that to coercive government... PvP is generally a bad idea in most MMO's. It is usually slapped on to appease the PK crowd, and thus increase the demographic the game appeals to. Which of course is one reason that MMO PvP is generally a bad idea, as it ends up being rather poorly implimented.  I quite enjoy many FPS games, because they are designed from the very start as PvP games. As for the current crop of FFA/full loot games, its too little, far too late. The majority of the audience has moved on to other types of games.

Originally posted by Blindchance

I find most of MMORPGs on the market dull and boring. Why ? Mostly because there is no challenge there, no real community abd no true risk so you don't experience there real emotions.

The era of theme parks destroyed it all, the MMOs are build now mostly around single player experience and making you to feel like a hero saving the world.  On the top of that you have your pve raids and meaningless RvR battles with no real risk or rewards. You don't really shape the world or even leave a mere footprint in it. 

There is no place in this setting for PK. "He killed me ?! ME ?! ! The Saviour of the world, The Slayer of The Demon of Doom ? That's not possible ! I am immortal and invincible !" People don't like to face a fact that they have been defeated and someone just took their stuff.

You believe that full loot pvp sandbox games destroy your game experience so you demand no loot, extremely restricted pvp and plenty of quests and pve content so you can "enjoy" yourself.

Then after ten years you wake up in the dead end.  You play boring, clones set in different theme parks where you can't change anything or leave a real mark behind you. You grind through levels, gear, complete quests with plot worse then in Warhammer series books and kill mobs which AI will never be half as good as in single player games and will never be as smart as another human being. 

When you reach the top: the max level and the ultimate gear you cry that there is NO end game, there is nothing to do and no reason to play until a new expansion. The expansion which introduce more quests, gear and levels to grind....You asked for it people and you deserve what you got.

I personally hope that sooner or later we will see on the market a true MMORPG: a sandbox with freedom of actions and consequences of them, where you will be able to build a place you can call your virtual home, whatever it will be a house or a kingdom. A place where political, economical and ideological alliances will shift and dynamically shape the world map. A place where the history and the plot will be written by the best actors and competitors: players themselves. 

 

 

If its real emotion and thrills that you seek, might I suggest blood sport? It has the ultimate challenge, coupled with the ultimate penalty. Games on the other hand are ment to be entertainment.  Now that means different things to different people. But I've spent MUCH more than enough time in the types of FFA sandbox games that some people rave about. The reality is that given the excuse(no in all too many games, encouragement) WAY too many people will become total bastards.  Being the target of others ganking/griefing is NOT something I'm willing to pay money for these days.

The gaming population has also moved on from those days. The fact is there are a lot more of us CareBears these days, than there are people willing to tolerate(enjoy) ganking/griefing in the west. Look at the number of PvE vs PvP servers in WoW, and the fact that more than half(closer to 2/3) of Eve's player base stays in high sec, as just two of many examples.  Games that are designed for FFA/full loot automatically niche themselves(in other words limit their profit potential).  Those two realities(coupled with human nature) explain the much larger number of PvE games that exist.  Its not something I see changing anytime soon.

One final note. Never is a LONG time. I suspect that given some of the recent advancements, we can expect that AI will become ever more effective. Some of its past research paths have proven disappointing, but  some of the current approaches show much more promise. That combined with the ever increasing understanding of how the human brain itself operates, will make the next 20 years rather "interesting".

 

Originally posted by Gikku
Originally posted by Wraithone

 Open PvP in terms of todays audience means that a game niches itself from the start.  If the Dev's are ok with that, then more power to them. But that IS the reality, and its not going to change.   There are a LOT more of us CareBears than there are those who favor open PvP.  Mortal Online, much like Darkfall before it, is going to have limited appeal to those outside of the ganking/griefing set.  There are way too many other games to play these days, that don't require me to be constantly looking over my shoulder.  That gets way past tiring after awhile.

 

Yes and for those of us carebears that just plain don't want all that grief we simply aren't going to play it. If I want PvP then I will go to a PvP server or game. It is not my idea of fun. For those that enjoy PvP then they are going to look for games that are PvP driven.

I have been following for some time the new game Aion. I simply have not tried it because I have to shell out $50 to do so. But I do have friends and fellow gamers giving it a try . I don't think I will even worry about it as after you reach a certain level you are in and open PvP enviorment. Like I have said not my idea of fun so I am glad I did not waste my money on it.

 

Thats my point exactly. Aion looks like it would be fun, but I'm not going to put up with NCsofts bait and switch.  Their PvPvE is simply yet another take on the same, tired old Asian approach to these games.  Games with open PvP niche themselves in the west. Thats simply the reality.  If Aion had a PvE server I'd be more than happy to give it a try. Absent that, I have other games I can play.

Originally posted by Zzulu

The game needs a death penalty. Cargo, items or money. Something. So many people have spoken up about this, that it would be insanity of the devs not to at least listen to some of the feedback.


Hopefully people will be able to sway them once beta comes around.

 

The harsher the death penalty, the fewer people will take part in PvP.  In fact, in the modern day, the less people who will play the game at all.  Now the PK crowd may consider that a "good thing", but the Dev's have to look at where the money is.  There are a lot more of us CareBears than there are PvP types in the western market. Which is also one of the reasons that Asian games tend to niche themselves in the west.

 Open PvP in terms of todays audience means that a game niches itself from the start.  If the Dev's are ok with that, then more power to them. But that IS the reality, and its not going to change.   There are a LOT more of us CareBears than there are those who favor open PvP.  Mortal Online, much like Darkfall before it, is going to have limited appeal to those outside of the ganking/griefing set.  There are way too many other games to play these days, that don't require me to be constantly looking over my shoulder.  That gets way past tiring after awhile.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

The real trouble going on is there is no taxes being paid much less records of these transactions being stated.  Currency is flowing without just approval.  Not so much a power or greed issue but a real legal issue.

 

Money IS power. I never said anything about greed. Thats a subjective value judgement. Corruption on the other hand is only to be expected from government officials, no matter the country. Power and control of their subject population is all they really care about. Its too bad it has extended to online games now.  But given the money that WoW is making, its only to be expected that various governments would get interested.

Originally posted by Azntranc3

Seriously????!?!? After the debacle that happened with Deathknights you honestly WANT another???

 

Some people....

 

I'm only kidding, I mean no insult or w/e but honestly... deathknights I personally thought was an absolutely HORRIBLE idea, only because they were so god-damn OP. I highly doubt that blizzard will make another hero class that ISN'T OP.

 

Just like Locks were "OP"(then got nerfed so badly few people played them any more...They've only recently started to come back). Just like Retrib pallies were "OP", and warriors, and shammies... Are you starting to see a pattern here? ANY class that happens to be fun to play, and who may be effective at their role(in the case of death knights, thats anti caster)  gets hit with oceans of QQ's and hysterical howls that they are "OP"!!(rolls eyes).  Instead of keeping PvP and PvE skills separate(so that PvP can be "balanced" without wrecking PvE) Blizzard in its infinite "wisdom" has been playing this wack a nerf game since the days of Diabol1.  FOTM is only one of the drawbacks to that approach.

Originally posted by Lanthir
Originally posted by gkk1212
Originally posted by Lanthir
Originally posted by JYCowboy
Originally posted by MikeB
Originally posted by Caleveira

Do we really need a new thread about this? geez...

 

This isn't a thread, it's a news post. :)


 

I couldn't access the artical.  Is this directly related to the Gold Farming companies or a general MMO restriction?


 

A general MMO restriction.  Which would seem to reguire any online games to be wholy owned by a chinease based company.  Now one question would be  if a chinese company owned and operated the servers  and chose to purchase or lease the right to operate a game such as WoW would that come under this new reg. 


could you explain this in a more simple way im only 10 years old i feel like im out of the loop and all the SAT words being thrown around i'm losing my mind trying to understand the post *giggles and please help the handicapped ppl ... we need the "411"" plz

 ok a department in the chinease goverment   has made a rulling that no online companies outside of chinease ones based in china can own or invest in any online games that operate in china.  So for example Blizzard ( an american company) could not operate WoW  inside china.  What is not clear is if a chinese company that owned and operated servers in china  could purchase the right or lease (ie make payments to blizzard) to operate WoW in China.
 

To bring you up to date a bit  the chinese govenment has been trying to stop  the use of online games beign used for criminal activities.  Here is an example of what they are trying to stop.   person X sells drugs in china  they take the money from that and buy ingame gold from a gold selling company located in another country for say the game WoW.  They then resell that ingame gold to someone else for real money.    Now they have money from what appears to be a legal transaction. Since the gold selling company was located outside china the chinese government does not know if they  bought the gold ingame or made it ingame.  The records from inside the game are not located in china either since WoW is run by blizzard located in the U.S.  This is a way to launder the money which means to clean it of its illegal dirt sort to speak. 

 

What china is trying to stop is not only a problem there. Here in the U.S. the I.R.S. is looking into onlien game transactions as well  not only for tax reasons but to see if they can track money beign laundred through online games.

 

Quite so. Control freaks tend to be attracted to positions of government power.  Their motto is "We much control/know all, or we control nothing".  The majority of the worlds governments are becoming ever more authoritarian and intrusive. Its hardly a surprise that their attention is now turning to on line gaming.  Given the money being made by Blizzard in WoW, thats hardly a surprise.  No doubt the various national groups of thugs are looking for an increased "piece of the action" to allow it to continue.

Originally posted by JYCowboy
Originally posted by MikeB
Originally posted by Caleveira

Do we really need a new thread about this? geez...

 

This isn't a thread, it's a news post. :)


 

I couldn't access the artical.  Is this directly related to the Gold Farming companies or a general MMO restriction?

 

It deals with one of the Chinese ministries ruling that no foreign investment in the game industry is to be allowed.  This may not play well with the WTO as its likely to be deemed in violation of the agreed upon principles.  It remains to be seen what the impact will be.

Originally posted by Qqueue

I seem to remember blizzard saying that they were going to be releasing a new hero class with each new expansion.

Wheres cataclysm's hero class? Why is noone else bitching about this?

 

I can't remember that being official. Any way, given how they nerfed death knight to hell and back, I think we can pass on any more "hero" classes for awhile.

Originally posted by Wrender
Originally posted by Stuckov
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
Originally posted by Frobner

No matter what you say about WOW or Blizzard - noone can take away the fact that they create quality GAMES.  Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics - long loading screens and boring side issues.  Its pure and simple.  Fun !

 

 

I'd agree, but WoW isn't fun.

ahh I like how you state that as fact :). I have fun playing WoW... does that make me wierd? I mean I must be if I find it fun when it is not...

Pretty sure the rest of the millions of players are weird too what kind of a normal person pays money to play a non fun game...

Lets just say that what is fun for you may not be fun for me and what is fun for millions of players is not fun for you :) there we do agree, but your statement is not fact. Its just an opinion.


 

Weird?? Hell the whole world is weird these days. That is why wow has so many subs. WOW was good back in the day but has since went downhill. I played it for bout 2 years and quit for good. Since realized there are far better games out there. ANd don't even get me started on the community. WOW has the worst! ... Well next to Asmodian Communities in AION. Oh wait...that's where most of the WOW rejects have went! Nevermind.

 

You know, I'd wondered where all of the Hordies went to... WoW is a good game up to level cap. Then its little but raiding and/or PVP.  But obviously a lot of people like that...<shrug>

Originally posted by Irishoak
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Irishoak

Warning this post contains opinion, reading it may cause knee-jerk reactions. Seriously though, I am sick of greed.

Greed based, entirely. All PC developers see the console as this Holy Grail, if they could just find it and sup from it, eternal MONIES provided by endless drones who guzzle seven liters of energy drinks a day and think Taco Bell commercials to be reminders to actually eat now and then. In these dev dreams masses of stoned morons paw at their controls eagerly attempting to purchase all DLC for their game as soon as they can work out which button is X. Does it suck? Who cares it will sell! Also, buy this gun and some power ups and a heath potion. Whoa, pink helmets are more! Maybe we can sell the "jump" feature? Leave it out of the release just in case we can patch it and say it was a gift if someone calls us on it... Ahh, thank you Guitar Hero.

I like EvE but this move doesn't smack of innovation (unless by innovation they mean old and rehashed ways to pry money from our hands with a new wrapper) it reeks of hamfisting a new game into an existing IP in hopes of buckets of gold and unicorn rides for all. By all means make a new console game but don't shoehorn it into something and hope people believe the buzz. I own a few consoles, Wii, PS3, XBOX 360, but I will not be buying this. Hell, as far as I'm concerned the console is the worst platform for shooters as it is.

Also, I wish developers would stick to PC or Console and not make a game for XBOX 360, then port it to PS3, then port the mishmash of garbage to PC... I'm looking at you GTAIV. I pretty much avoid multi-platform releases if I can at all, they seem to bring the weakest features of the console to the PC and do not exploit any of the PC's actual strengths. For the sake of being a total hypocrite Borderlands will be my one sin this year. Curse you Gearbox!

 

How are you defining "greed"? I've yet to see anyone who uses the term who can define it in a non subjective fashion.  The profit motive(good old self interest) is one of the factors that makes even relatively free markets more effective than collectivist(of what ever ism) systems.  I understand in theory why CCP wants to tap in to the console market.  But I suspect in practice they are going to find its a long sequence of headaches, looking for a place to happen.

 

Greed has never made markets more effective, only more effective at making those in control of said markets richer. Less than 50 years ago greed was considered an actual sin, now it's a virtue to live up to and hold dear. Look where it got our economy. Capitalism is an ism, I'd like to point out. But the veiled slights aside, I'm a centrist, I'm fiscally conservative with liberal views on human rights. If we had actual free markets where success was rewarded I'd be all for it but as it stands people exploit the market and it's highly controlled in ways that make it anything but a free market. If you can't tell the difference between wanting to do well and greed I probably could never explain it in terms you'd like or want to hear. Everything is subjective, even the defense of greed.

Basing games (fun) sheerly on a profit margin never, I repeat never, works out in the end. When you base game design on maximum profit it rarely produces a "classic," yet games created with passion are usually the most fun. I'll admit it's not quantitative and you can't measure it on a slide ruler, but for the most part you can tell what drives a game and it's design by it's actual play. EvE was not based on what would rake in the most cash, it was based on what was perceived as "fun" and it struggled but in the end produced a stable source of income.

 

Chuckle... I wasn't really expecting you to define "greed"... Its one of those hand waving concepts that certain types of collectivists are overly fond of using for the emotional/class warfare impact.  I must totally disagree with you in regards to self interest(other wise known as "greed").  It is one of THE major factors in making markets more effective.  But I do agree that those in control of the markets get richer. They also tend to be the ones in control of the coercive governments involved.  I've never stated that games should ONLY be made for profit. I've simply stated that profit is one of the major motivation factors(self interest again...).

Games purpose is entertainment and diversion.  Those that are fun, are likely(several other things considered) to be profitable. Thats what is so entertaining about those who hate WoW. Many millions of people consider it to be fun, and stay subscribed to the game over years and years.  Which is much more than can be said of many other such games. Good design and understanding of what fun is, go hand in hand.   I wish CCP all the best in their move in to consoles. I just hope they understand all of the implications.

Originally posted by Irishoak

Warning this post contains opinion, reading it may cause knee-jerk reactions. Seriously though, I am sick of greed.

Greed based, entirely. All PC developers see the console as this Holy Grail, if they could just find it and sup from it, eternal MONIES provided by endless drones who guzzle seven liters of energy drinks a day and think Taco Bell commercials to be reminders to actually eat now and then. In these dev dreams masses of stoned morons paw at their controls eagerly attempting to purchase all DLC for their game as soon as they can work out which button is X. Does it suck? Who cares it will sell! Also, buy this gun and some power ups and a heath potion. Whoa, pink helmets are more! Maybe we can sell the "jump" feature? Leave it out of the release just in case we can patch it and say it was a gift if someone calls us on it... Ahh, thank you Guitar Hero.

I like EvE but this move doesn't smack of innovation (unless by innovation they mean old and rehashed ways to pry money from our hands with a new wrapper) it reeks of hamfisting a new game into an existing IP in hopes of buckets of gold and unicorn rides for all. By all means make a new console game but don't shoehorn it into something and hope people believe the buzz. I own a few consoles, Wii, PS3, XBOX 360, but I will not be buying this. Hell, as far as I'm concerned the console is the worst platform for shooters as it is.

Also, I wish developers would stick to PC or Console and not make a game for XBOX 360, then port it to PS3, then port the mishmash of garbage to PC... I'm looking at you GTAIV. I pretty much avoid multi-platform releases if I can at all, they seem to bring the weakest features of the console to the PC and do not exploit any of the PC's actual strengths. For the sake of being a total hypocrite Borderlands will be my one sin this year. Curse you Gearbox!

 

How are you defining "greed"? I've yet to see anyone who uses the term who can define it in a non subjective fashion.  The profit motive(good old self interest) is one of the factors that makes even relatively free markets more effective than collectivist(of what ever ism) systems.  I understand in theory why CCP wants to tap in to the console market.  But I suspect in practice they are going to find its a long sequence of headaches, looking for a place to happen.

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