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All Posts by Wraithone

All Posts by Wraithone

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3462 posts found

Oh my dear sweet lord... Those guys have WAY too much time on their hands...

Originally posted by gkk1212
Originally posted by Evolution8

What will i be you ask?? I will be one of the thousands that throw it in the trash, damn korean grind fest


 

noob.. go throw it away go back to WoW were you belong...

you can't deal with a game that needs intellect to play, not just pressing keys over an over you WoW players make me sick.

stay with your heads in the sand!

 

 

ROTFLMAO!! I was wondering when the hysterical Aion Defense Farce was going to show up. I suppose it hasn't dawned on you, that not everyone who doesn't care for Aion is playing WoW?...<rolls eyes>

Originally posted by batolemaeus

That's a lot of tears from you, decoy26517.
I wonder what horrible, unspeakable things Eve has done to you that you feel the need to share your angst with others.

 

Hmmm... I doubt it was the game. The Goonies on the other hand... I quite enjoy Eve. But then I stay in high sec, I'm still in SWA after almost 4 years, and I just run L4 missions. So I know little about the PvP aspects. But I do know that the combat system is more complex than he appears to realize.

You ask that of EA? Because the reality is they are COMPLETELY clueless when it comes to MMO's. One need look no further than their bumbling with Earth and Beyond to see that.  I place EA's closing of Earth and Beyond,  right up there with SOE's destruction of SWG's by the introduction of the NGE.  Anyone who loved E&B knows what I'm speaking of.  EA should stick to console clones of Madden 2109 and other such dribble. Its what they seem best suited for,  I shudder in HORROR knowing that EA has purchased Bioware, and no doubt will fumble TOR in their usual ham handed fashion.  But the jury is still out on that one.

Most companies in the west are leary of F2P games because of three major elements I suspect. One, as has been stated, F2P doesn't play well with western investors/shareholders. They are MUCH more about making the quarterly report look sweet, than anything long term(as usual Blizzard is the exception that proves the rule).  Second, fair or not, F2P games have gained a poor reputation in the west for being low quality shovel ware. Not to mention attracting a demographic that isn't interested and/or able to invest in the game. 

Third, there is the cultural differences between the east and the west.  F2P works well in the east because they tend to favor PVP grinders that can be popped out like they are on an assembly line. Most of the popular ones are based on the same handful of re skinned/re purposed engines.  That difference in culture is what is also causing so many problems for the Asian companies attempting to expand in to the west.  They can't seem to comprehend that the western demographics for gankfest/griefer games is much lower in the west, than it is in the east.  Not only that, but has anyone noticed that all three of the games NCsoft has closed have been western? Until those and other aspects of the problem are addressed, the movement of F2P into the west will remain slow.

Originally posted by Crichton

Will I at least be able to make a decent amount of progress daily? I can only put in maybe 4 hours a night cause I work full time, a lot more on weekends.

 

That should be fine. Just do some research on what you want to do. As I said, Eve is pretty much what you make of it.

Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by Crichton

Honestly, its fun but..so so so so slow. I mean, I dont mind grinding to make money and such but to get a better ship I have to have Skill X Y or Z and those skills can take days to complete.. In the meantime Im not left with a whole lot to do other than go mine some more or kill some npc pirates ;\

I know everyone says stick with it, stick with it, its worth it but damn, im bored to tears watching my ship mine for a few minutes, warp back to station, sell junk, warp back to asteroid, mine some more, etc

 

Mining is astoundingly dull; stop doing it. It is something you should only do while you're basically doing other things, or just have a horrible hangover.

Mining and NPCing are not the point of the game. They are the things you do so you can play the game. And there are better things you can do to make ISK than either.

Read again what I just wrote in the post above. The PvP is not slow paced. The first few fights you're in, you will be saying "WTF just happened?! How the HELL did he do that?".

 

Mining started out as a joke I suspect...The CCP Dev's never expected people to actually make a career out of it... But someone has to do it, just not me. ^^ But I do tend to mine a bit for a day or three after a major patch. It saves wear and tear on my ISK balance. Most of what I do is run L4 missions.

Originally posted by Crichton

I really don't think I can handle its slow pace..

I know skills are going to take me forever to level up, is there like anything I can do in between waiting hours/days for a skill to level?

Will my character/ship(s) ever be as good as someone who has been playing from the start? I mean I don't have to be the absolute best but I'd love to be able to hang with the big dogs. If I can't catch up as a new player...why bother?

I'm assuming there are very detailed guides out there on skill paths to take?

 

Give the free trial a shot. Eve is pretty much what you make of it. You can run missions, mine(shudder... ^^)  PvP, build ships/mods, trade or play the market(some people make HUGE amounts of ISK doing that).  Skill points are important, but what is more important is knowledge/experience in the use of the various ships and load outs. Thats true of PvP as well as PvE.  Certainly you will never have as many skill points as someone who has been in the game four or five years. Thats a given. But skill points aren't like levels in another game. Beyond a certain point they just provide more options for what you want to do, and make you more effective, once you have the knowledge/experience to use them.  But be aware that Eve has a rather steep learning curve(more like a wall ^^).  But there are some excellent online guides/corps to help you do just about anything, This is just one and it links to the official wiki. 

wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Eve_University_%28Player_corporation%29

Finally, keep in mind Eve's unofficial motto; "Trust No One"

Originally posted by BigJohnny

I really have to disagree that WoW was an example of a game that started big. From my point of view, it's one of the better examples of a game that started small and grew from there.

When the game released, you only had the 1-60 leveling experience. Then at the end-game they had Onyxia and Molten core. And that's it. Even the leveling dungeons were incomplete. They had to patch Dire Maul in later, not to mention Maraudon.

Stuff like the honor system for pvp, battlegrounds, etc, were all patched in, and yet they're now considered part of the "core" experience. The extent of PvP in WoW back then was spontaneous fights in Hillsbrad. And the time it took them to patch in Blackwing Lair, which is only the second raid, was something like 6 months if I'm not mistaken. So they actually had a pretty rocky start I'd say.

But, they did have a really well-polished leveling experience. And likewise, the stuff they did give you was in-fact well done. So you had a pretty solid core to play with, and then they built from there.

 

I've been in WoW since late beta, so I well remember the 1-60 cycle. I was more refering to their player numbers, than their content.  One of my most enjoyable memories of the game was soloing my 60 rogue through the MC attunement quest.  ^^ Scholo/UBRS and MC I've run way more times than I ever want to remember. But for the most part it was good times. Then came Outlands and Northrend , and they seem to have lost their way from the old style. But everything changes I guess(shrug). But its still a good game, until one hits level cap.

Originally posted by Flatfingers

"I would love to see a company launch a focused, albeit narrower product and charge a narrower amount for it. If they did, I would hope that the fans would react accordingly and give it the support it needs to take that next step."

I agree. Back in July of 2007 I wrote a blog piece pointing out that, with a few exceptions, there are basically two sales curves for MMORPGs: start-big-and-slowly-decline, and start-small-and-slowly-grow.

We've seen examples of the start-big curve. Those are the big-budget AAA titles, who have to make as much money as possible in their first few weeks after launch (to pay back their big development costs) because that's the most subscribers they're ever likely to have.

And EVE remains the best example of the start-small curve, who make the bulk of their income over time. The question is, why aren't more developers going that route?

Perhaps we're now seeing the first wave of indie MMORPGs that are trying that path. Here's hoping so; it'll be good for the industry.

--Flatfingers

 

As with much else WoW is the exception. It started big and got HUGE. It remains to be seen if they can duplicate that sucess with their next MMO.  I suspect one of the reasons for the AAA class titles taking the approach that they do, is that its easier to sell their investors on a grand vision. Then when nature takes its course, and reality hammers them, their investors start to panic and demand that they launch NOW, ready or not.  We've all seen the results, way too many times.  Smaller titles simply run out of money. Its launch or perish.  The bottom line is that all too many investors are focused on the short term returns, rather than long term returns.

Originally posted by Silvermink

Everquest started at 9.95 and increased it's price. People complained but they didn't leave. I think an underpriced MMO would get the same reaction.

 

Back then, there wasn't that much else to play These days, I doubt most players would stay through a price increase.

Originally posted by somoney
Originally posted by Dana

Would you support an MMO that started small, but strongly and then grew over time? With a few attitude adjustments from fans, media and developers, maybe this could be possible.

  Sounds like Dana ate the wrong side of the frosted mini wheat's this morning. While the grown up intellectual side of me says sure, the kid in me that drew me to play this stupid MMO in the first place says NO NO NO!   

 An MMO's "Rush to Market" should be punished not coddled!

1st impressions are what decides the success of any mmo.  If you don't do me right in the 1st 30 days your not going to get the subscription.

THE END!

PS. That baby picture is a perfect likeness.. 

 

 

These days that may well be true. But how then does one explain Eve? It started out small and has grown over the years. Then of course there is Anarchy Online. It had to have one of the WORST launches in MMO history, but it went on to recover from that. I suspect its a function of how the Dev's deal with the inevitable problems that come with MMO's.  Under capitalization is endemic across the MMO industry.

Outside of a few exceptions(Blizzard comes to mind) investors/shareholders panic at the slightest hint of problem/delay, and start threatening to pull out if the game doesn't launch, ready or not.  Of course, this type of short sightedness is what contributes to games either failing or never reaching the subscription numbers they would have, if the launch hadn't been rushed. But what else can one expect from people whose only focus is the quarterly report?

Originally posted by StarDagger
Originally posted by SyaoranLi

Final Fantasy XIV is not a PS3 Exclusive, S-E has even said so themselves. They are working with Microsoft and would like to bring FFXIV to the 360.

 

Does anyone care about Console mmos?  Is that even possible without a proper PC?

OK maybe possible, but why?

 

Yours in PC Gamer Plasma,

Star*Dagger

 

CCP seems to care about consoles, as DUST 514 will be first released on them.  Current generation consoles have some advantages over PC's in terms of coding for them(standard hardware and SDK's). They also tap in to a different(but in some cases overlapping) demographic. The downside is they aren't nearly as effective when dealing with FPS style games. No standard interface so far has beaten the mouse, keyboard for smooth game play, and ease of access to many functions.  A non FPS MMO on the other hand might be possible, if its controls are well thought out and implimented.  But I suspect it would still suffer from the inherent limitations of the controller.  Not to mention that the physical skills involved in PC's do not transfer over to console controllers.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Finally someone on Mmorpg.com that agrees on how similar alganon is to wow, i would continue to read your articles!

 

LOL! Of course it has aspects in common with WoW.  They are both fantasy games, with dungeons and much of the rest. That they share a common graphical style leads me to believe that it may thus run on a broader cross section of systems than say, Everquest 2 did at its launch.  Its always amusing to see people look down their pointed noses at WoW or McDonalds.  Such people obviously know rather little about markets or economics.  Both have large sections of their markets, and both make *huge* amounts of money.  In case some of you have forgotten,  making money is the object of this exercise...

Now, I'd not say that its the *only* object, but its certainly in the top two or three. Finally, expecting players to come into a new game as blank slates(I could make a Tabula Rasa  joke here, but lets pass that^^) to be written upon by the games Dev's is totally unrealistic.  Part of what makes us individual human beings is our past experiences. Those for good and/or ill are our internal reference frames within which everything else is viewed in perspective.   But that fact shouldn't prevent one from at least attempting to be fair in giving a new game a chance.  You may learn new things to add to your experience database.

Originally posted by sweetdreams

Looool you do not want to play it now. EQ2 is already a monthly subscription game, and they are upping the RMT. They have an LoN card coming up where you are granted an exclusive zone with drops only from it.

Lots of anger about it. Almost 700 replies. You can read about it here: forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m

 

I'm just AMAZED that its not been deleted *yet*.  I'm certain the mods are going to get a STERN talking to... ^^ Keep in mind that this is SOE, so literally nothing should surprise you.

Originally posted by Dana
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Yes, MMOs (especially niche MMOs) should start small and grow from there. They must have a good starting experience and a functional and fun end game right from the start, however. Skimp on mid game, and expand that and add new start and end game content. Four classes and two start areas is enough to launch a game. Add more later.

As for charging more as new content is added - hell no. Players won't stand for that.

Also, if you make some new content optional for extra charge, then the devs will concentrate on the cash content and neglect the core game.

 

Well, the value proposition I was making was a game that charged less than average to start and as it became a larger title, went up to standard rates.

But, I take it from your response, that wouldn't work for you? A fine opinion, just trying to see fully what you're saying.

 

Given human nature, I suspect that any company that tried that would run in to problems. Far too many people would object to such a price increase.  Especially if the low price was in place for 3-6 months or so.

Originally posted by Horusra

I love buying a car and being told that in 2 months or so I will get that drivers seat, but till then I can squat and still dive the car.  I can understand the end game content not being there at launch, but all the initial bells and whistles should.  If a current game has a feature (not content) then a game at release shoudl have it if it is intended for use at low level (banks, auction houses, etc.)  I would not buy a game for a console that was not finished why should my demands on a MMO be different.

It seems to me if a lot of the flim-flam game companies stop sucking up development money to make crap games and instead 3 or so game got all that cash to develop something nice we might get quality, innovative games.

 

Considering that the car industry is almost a century old, and the MMO industry is around 15 years plus... There is just a wee bit of a difference. I seriously doubt you would have been quite so happy with some of the first cars at the dawn of the automobile age...

Not to mention that MMO's use some of the most complex software suites and hardware combinations in existence.  That of course doesn't excuse continued mistakes, or poorly thought out design and sloppy code.

Those who demand a current  WoW type game(at launch) are eternally doomed to disappointment.   You might be better served to either continue playing WoW, or switch to single player PC/console titles.   Or you could wait for what every Blizzard is working on for their next MMO. In any event, expecting new companies to have a hundred million to invest in their games is wildly unrealistic.

I quite agree with you Dana. We've seen how many games of great potential get the axe because the suits/investors ran around in panic? Not to mention the hysteria all too many players react with, if a game doesn't have all of the features and polish that WoW has... Having been in WoW since late beta, let me tell you that WoW didn't have all of that at launch either.

But expecting a rational/thoughtful response from the typical player is doomed to failure.  Don't even get me started on the lack of patience, ignorance and uncivilized behavior that has for far too long been the typical response of forum denizens.  That is NOT to excuse the poorly thought out designs, and sloppy coding thats also all too typical of many of todays half baked projects.

After some of the abuses of trust and faith that many of us have experienced, its understandable that we have become less tolerant of mistakes. Thats simply human nature. That having been said, new companies can't be expected to do everything right the first(or even the second time).  BUT if they are open with their player base, AND take pride in their work, AND demonstrate that they aren't doing this *just* for the money(which of course IS a motivating factor)  then the players who share their vision, should support them while they go through the "learning experiences" one has to expect with these HIGHLY complex suites of software and the underlying hardware. 

Keeping in mind that the players patience/toleration is NOT infinite... One of the better responses I've seen was CCP's. On making a howling mistake on one of their patches, they posted something along the lines of "Those responsible have been given a personal tour of the airlock". A company that can keep a sense of humor, and remain open with their players is going to have more leeway in the inevitable mistakes that WILL happen.  As for the suits/investors that panic at the slightest hint of problems, a smart company will have highly trained/experienced personnel whose task it is to hand hold, and feed them shiny tech demos on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Originally posted by AlienShirt

Turbine really needs to do a REAL sequel to Asheron's Call. AC2 was not worthy of the Asheron's Call name. I still feel it was just a tech demo for Turbine that helped them procure rights to DnD and LOTR.

 

Blame Microsoft.

 Thats usually a good place to start... But I was there for most of that sorry mess. There is much more than enough blame to go around for both of them. Not to mention that Mickysoft was long out of the picture, when Turbine sold us an expansion and then closed the game down not that long afterwards.

Originally posted by Thanosxp
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Gabby-air
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Gabby-air
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Tolroc

I also don't understand the hype around Alganon. The game doesn't look all that innovative to me.  Just my opinion. The other three games mentioned seem pretty solid, but I've not played any of them.

 

 

At least some of the hype is from many of us who have followed Dave Allen's activities for years now.  The *original* design for Horizons(now Istaria) was absolutely brilliant.  But that all went down the tubes when David Bowman backstabbed Dave Allen, and the rest as they say is history.  I'm very happy that he made it back into games after such a nasty situation.  Those who go on(and on and on and on...) about it being a "rip off" of WoW, have little concept of the ideas and play dynamics that WoW has "ripped off"  from other games of the past.  Everyone does it to a greater or lesser extent.  Its how one crafts the various components that determines if its fun or not.

Those who worship at the shrine of the great God "innovation" should know that its a very fickle deity, and as prone to kicking one in the ass, as it is in rewarding one for ones devotion.

I'll take play dynamics that are *fun* over innovation any day.  Why re invent the wheel when its unnecessary? Given Dave Allen's background, and demonstrated talent at game design, I'm more than willing to give his latest project Alganon an honest try.

So what your saying is, its just another generic game with no innovation and your regular "borrowing" of content games which seem to be released like every week in korea, just this one we have to pay for? Like ive said i respect the devs and am well aware of dave allen, who by the way was a man with a good imagination not the one who "borrowed" from other games but the game does nothing to be on that list.

 

The subject was "The rise of the indy MMO".  Thus Alganon fits on the list. Its not backed by any major publisher.  Having played way, WAY too many Korean games, I have to disagree with you. All too many of them are re skinned, slight rule changes of the same hand full of engines.  Not to mention the Korean fixation on PvP(its easier/cheaper if your players provide much of the games content).  Alganon looks like its going to be fun, in the same sense that WoW was on its release. Even if it only attracts 150-200k players, that will still give Dave Allen a chance to show what he is capable of.

 

But how exactly is different that the korean games? as you said, there all the same old thing which well goes the same for this game aswell with some little differerence, whats making this game different that aion, wow, evrequest2? It's been already done and done alot better, why waste more time on it?

And by the way i doubt this game would see 150k subs even 50k would be exagerating, it only has like 2k registered members on the forums and its one month away from release.

 

Its different because they are not using a re skinned, rule changed engine from another game. I did say thats what is all too common with many Korean games. Its different because they have their own presentation of the story they seek to tell.  How well they tell it, and how enjoyable it will be is yet to be determined(as with all such games).  As for the potential subs, thats a function of marketing, word of mouth and buzz leading in to launch. Its also a function of peoples perception of the game in the months after launch.  It all depends on not only what the game is, but how its players respond to it.  That to a great extent is determined by how the Dev's interact with their players. Look at CCP for a good example of that. Sure, they have made some mistakes, but over all they have managed quite well.  I'm hoping that Dave Allen has learned those lessons.

 

"Its different because they are not using a re skinned, rule changed engine from another game"

How can that be an argument if in the last page you just said "why reinvent the wheel?". IF you really think so,the korean model have a MERIT in using a re skinned engine. I can understand if you love the game but let's keep it at least non-contraditory

=/

 

 

One needs to keep track of context... There is a rather large difference between using *some* similiar game dynamics, and the common practice with many Korean(and other Asian) games in that they use the same *game engine* but simply re skin it and slightly change some of the rule set.  Sure it has *some* merit... It allows them to churn out a nearly endless number of clone games, at minimal expense.  I've not said that innovation is bad, when properly applied. But innovation for its own sake, tends to have rather negative consequences.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

In my opinion its useless to keep on debating over the topic, obviously we have very different views on the subject. Lets just wait till the game releases and see how it goes.

 

Sounds like a plan. Lets hope it works out.

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