Originally posted by Garvon3

WAR and LotRO and Aion launched with polish. Didn't turn out so well.

WAR did NOT launch with polish... How can you even say that? And I didnt find Aion particularly polished either. LotRO was well done I suppose, but the game just didnt pull you in. I found the controls to be too lazy, and there seemed to always be this disconnection from your character while controlling them. Then mix into it that most of the things to do were social rather that game... Sorry, but a game with no PvP option often doesnt turn out well. And that PvMP does not count.

Originally posted by Emergence

3) In your immediately vicinity (usually a zone or area) there are only ever [x] number of players. In fact, you will rarely see more than 100 users in any one zone. Even the most heavily populated zones don't go far past 100, and CERTAINLY NOT in the thousands.

 

I agree with everything other than this. You have quite obviously never played EVE.

When I think of WoW, I have never thought "innovative", so I am not sure what they lost. I played WoW for a long time, and just recently quit, but I have never read a patch note and thought "Wow... How did they come up with that? That is completely original". They put their own spin on things, and their own take, but they have never innovated. Others innovate, and they build on top of that innovation.

WoW's problem right now is that they made everything so easy in WOTLK that people got used to it, and now it was made harder, and half the population is pissed. Most of the WoW players were fine in their mix of blues and greens at level cap in TBC and Vanilla. They didnt like to group, and they didnt do dungeons. Then WOTLK came out, and people were still happy with their mix of blues and greens. Then the dungeon tool came out, and suddenly EVERYONE was in epics. You could suck, be anti social, have never grouped before, and suddenly, you could. It was easy enough to where pretty much any group could manage, and it just worked.

Cataclysm is not the same way. Many of the dungeons require the smallest bit of group cooperation, and no one is willing to try. Just like with Halls of Reflection. So all these people that were suddenly used to being on cruise control through dungeons and picking up their emblems/epics in heroics cannot do that any more. It doesnt matter that for years they were happy with blues and greens, now they are used to easy epics, and they want it now, and Blizzard moved away from that. Sorry, but that was a terrible move for overall population. You can make a game easier and be fine, but make it harder? You are just asking to alienate players.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Originally posted by Emergence

Well, that pretty much summed it up...lol...

Good job. Might as well close this thread now :P

Not really, he obviously writes a lot of crap about VG.

There was no shortage of new abilities on higher levels, unless one played Cleric before they introduced Affinities.

The main problem with VG was simply: Not enough devs, not enough advertisement.

And the game being "old school" was one of the points why the game was so awesome.

Or it could have been that the performance was so terrible at launch that pretty much no one could play it.

Watch this:

You do the trial to see if you like the game. If you DO like the game, then you pay 5 dollars to upgrade it to just standard WoW. You dont need TBC, WOTLK or Cataclysm unless you are DYING for one of the races they unlocked. (unlikely) So, you play for some time on your way up to 60. You find out that you like the game. You can then go and buy the rest, of just pick up TBC. Play through that content, and decide if the game is still for you, etc.

Same goes for any other MMO. You obviously dont buy everything before you know what you are going to do. I played EQ1 without most of the expansions because I never got to any of that content. Then when I got to a content barrier, I picked up an expansion. Simple as that.

Easy, I played 20 mins of each, and decided that the Defiants starting zone was much nicer in my opinion, lol. Sad but true.

Originally posted by pragues

Very conveniant. The thread is about WOW players and why or why not they would come to Rift.

So now you complain why someone who actually plays WOW posts some things about the 2 games ...

So you are not really a WOW player (like I deducted from earlier posts). But I guess WOW players are not actually invited to the thread.

So what's the use of a thread in a game that wants to recruit with the name "AZEROTH " anyway  and WOW players are not supposed to be posting because that is "annoying".

They are not recruiting with the name Azeroth. They are saying that there game is not on Azeroth, alluding to the fact that it is an MMO that is not WoW. I find it to be a terrible slogan, and seeing how much it does borrow from WoW, I do find it kind of stupid.

That does not change the fact that Rift, while similar in many aspects, is not a copy of WoW, nor do I think it was going for that. I think Rift was going for a hodge podge of good ideas from various MMOs, and to that effect, I think it has done a great job.

Originally posted by pragues

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by pragues

My question is

Why do people need to demolish the success of a game before getting happy in another game?

You might ask yourself that question, since you're doing a pretty good job trashtalking any game that isn't WoW, derailing threads with repetitive flamebaiting pro WoW-anti WoW discussions in the meantime.

Nope, I am asking WHY players would leave for Rift and up until now I didn't see hardly any valid and decent arguments - except to say it offers about the same things.

What I saw though was a trash talk of the quality of old WOW and its so called lack of success (which is countered by every account sheet recently published btw).

 

So it is not pot meets kettle. It is why do you think the success of a new game lingers on attacking the quality of another one, the big one.

Can't you see this leads to a very questionable "welcome - get out" from those 12 million players ? Why would any Beta in a new game that uses the words 'Azeroth" be annoying ? Of course you attract a lot of noise from those players.

But is this these players's fault ?

I pointed out several valid reasons. You just simply stopped responding to them once your logic and ideals were busted.

Originally posted by pragues

And lets think of it as an artist then. The Mona Lisa is a fine piece of art. However, if you change the background, change the subject, and change the color scheme, what would you say? Looks just like the Mona Lisa? No, it is then a portrait of a different person.

Even the color of the cobbles were copied from SW. The subject? Fantasy based MMO with gear grind and less classes (30 in WOW), with less polish, petite world and bad animations both of mobs and bosses.

 

The only thing why Rift doesn't offer things like full designed flying woirlds and underwater quests is because they were too costly to get as fast to the supposed money machine.

 

And the complete marketing is focused on that gold. Grab % of the original money machine and we are content.

People have seen the same things in AoC and WAR, but even those had more original ideas than Rift.

The color of the cobbles, are you kidding me? lol. Seriously, I want to know if that was supposed to be a serious statement, because that might go down as the most rediculous thing I have read in a long time.

And in art, the subject is main object being painted, or Mona Lisa herself. Sorry, I thought you knew art, since you brought up the subject. WoW also does not have 30 classes. It has 10, with 3 different trees. Just like AoC doesnt get to count each tree as a new class. True, classes like Paladin COULD be stretched to be three classes, as tank, healer and DPS, but rogue? Hunter? Mage? Etc? No. There are 10 classes in WoW, period. Unless you want to say there is an unlimited amount, because of talent choice combinations...

Gear grind is older than MMOs, so using that is retarded. I spent countless hours grinding for stuff in MUDs back in the mid 90s. Animations seem ok to me, maybe not as fluid, but nothing horribly bad. Other than WoW, it likely has some of the best, so whatever. And polish? For an about to be released game, Rift is pretty much as polished as we are going to get. I dont know of any other MMOs that were in better shape at release.

But underwater worlds and flying mounts are costly? They could have saved TONS of money on world design with them, like WoW does now. The only point of a flying mount is to skip content, plain and simple. They could have made a sparse world, with not much in between each location, and then just given you a flying mount, and you would not percieve it as being a sparse world. But it is becoming VERY clear that anything WoW did was gold in your eyes. Even though neither concept is originally from WoW, and neither concept is amazingly popular anywhere else.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by pragues

The thread is: WoW players leaving for Rift ?

I explained why most will not be leaving and gave very good and well founded reasons. Learn to read the title or threads before becoming agressive.

You know: it is their  makers that used "this is not Azeroth anymore". ...

While I'm not sure how you really know what other people think I agree.

Focus on the topic, people. 

Will you play Rift? And if you will, will you stop playing another game, and which?

I might start playing myslef later but not now.

The last MMO I played was WoW. I was burnt out before Cataclysm, and Cataclysm fizzled out the last of my will to play, so I would not really say I am leaving it for Rift. I plan to play Rift, but I would have left WoW anyway. I likely just wouldnt have played any MMOs if Rift didnt come out. I will likely burn some time there, and move on. Who knows. When I left EQ1 for WoW, I felt the same way. I would blow off a few months in WoW, and then likely go back to EQ or something. But I didnt. We just have to see what the entertainment value of Rift ends up being. Currently, I am quite happy. In a couple months? Who knows. I was in love with AoC in beta, and a month or so after launch. I still never made it to 4 months of paid time in the game. Same with WAR. I was VERY happy with WAR in open beta, as there was a ton of open RvR going on. Then launch hit, and everyone raced to the top, rather than having fun in the open RvR stuff. Game died for me.

Originally posted by Seffren

Originally posted by Rallycart

Weird... I have a Q9550 OCed to 3.2ghz, a 260GTX, 8 gigs of ram, on Vista 64, playing at 1920x1280, and have no FPS problems. Even in rifts, surrounded by tons of people, there is no problem. I have everything turned up other than view distance which is at about 75%. I am not sure what my FPS is, as I have not checked, but it plays fluid, with no slowdowns, even under heavy screen activity.

My wife is playing on an AMD 6000+ dual core, Nvidia 250gt, and 4 gigs of ram on Vista 64, and is also not having any problems. Although her settings are on the "high" default, with the same resolution as me.

I would suggest to swap your vista with win7 ... huge improvement :)

From what I am reading here, with tons of people on Windows 7 being worse off then me, I dont see how you have any point. There is nothing wrong with mine, and I have never had problems with Vista 64.

Originally posted by pragues

Rifts were already in the pre Cata events. Random elite spawns and they were annoying as hell.

http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=4887/tripping-the-rifts#screenshots

Massive untuned zerg fests both in cities as in the planes. Let's call it a wink made by Blizzard 4 months before they appeared in the copy. Everyone was happy they were gone after 3 weeks. You'll see the same reactions 3 weeks after launch.

Like I said: if game design was an art and Jeff Kaplan was an artist, how would you call someone that made a pure copycat ?

Anything is better than to look at a bad copy of an original piece of art.

The "rifts" in WoW were a limited time thing, and yes, annoying as hell. Why? Because there was no clear reason to do them. You didnt really get anything worth while, and even if they HAD dropped OMFGZ awesome stuff, it would not have mattered, because the expansion would have rendered them useless. It was made to be an annoying event, not to actually be a fun game mechanic, such as in Rift. Were you around for the opening of the AQ gates? Similar invasions that were MASSIVELY popular, with tons of people wishing you could still do them. Especially since they were so limited. The clear difference? The rewards.

 Plus, the public grouping system REALLY helps out , as in WoW it was just a bunch of random douches doing their own thing. Also, Rift was HARDLY copying WoW with the Rifts. It was the basis of their game LONG before Cataclysm was even announced, but have fun believing whatever you like.

And lets think of it as an artist then. The Mona Lisa is a fine piece of art. However, if you change the background, change the subject, and change the color scheme, what would you say? Looks just like the Mona Lisa? No, it is then a portrait of a different person. Similar in many ways, including style, but still its own piece. Same goes for Rift. If you think Rift is a complete knowckoff of WoW, then there is something wrong with you. it is a mix of many different MMOs, plus a few of its own flavors. A copy of WoW it is not. There are several features that I loved from other MMOs (public grouping, multiclassing, town conquering, etc) that WoW does not have, and likely never will have.

Weird... I have a Q9550 OCed to 3.2ghz, a 260GTX, 8 gigs of ram, on Vista 64, playing at 1920x1280, and have no FPS problems. Even in rifts, surrounded by tons of people, there is no problem. I have everything turned up other than view distance which is at about 75%. I am not sure what my FPS is, as I have not checked, but it plays fluid, with no slowdowns, even under heavy screen activity.

My wife is playing on an AMD 6000+ dual core, Nvidia 250gt, and 4 gigs of ram on Vista 64, and is also not having any problems. Although her settings are on the "high" default, with the same resolution as me.

Originally posted by pragues

Why would I start over in a game that I already played the last 5 years?

I have more dungeons in WOW (and they changed them just 3 months ago), I have many more BG's, I have more races and classes, I have flying mounts and a 6 times bigger world, an underwater world and I still have only 6300 achievements points on my main with a few thousands more goals/titles for my alt.

WOW already changes its avatar trick and play every year (much to my dislike), so why would a grown up man change to play the exact same thing with 1/20 the options and smash 5 years of fun work down the drain ?

Please explain.

Yes I activated ST to play something besides the main thing. At least I now have a ship and something in space.

 

 

Rift is not the same game you have been playing. It is very similar, but has a lot to do that WoW doesnt offer. Rifts and Invasions alone show that.

WoW DOES have more dungeons, you are right, but how many of them are used? There are so many that are now obsolete. Even worse, there are plenty of people running those dungeons just to level up, as the gear dropped in there does nor compare with the greens from the expansion that killed it. (See TBC dungeons, and old world stuff before the Cataclysm revamp) And at least the Rift dungeons are all fresh. I played myself out on 90% of the dungeons years ago.

Same goes for the BGs. Eye of the Storm? Please, if they did not have things that required that emblem, I would have never used it. Most people agree. Same goes for Strand of the Ancients. Back in the day, I would bet you my balls that if it was not for emblems, Alterac valley would have been the only BG worth queueing for anyway. I only did anything else because I was FORCED to to advance.

WoW does have more races, fine. But classes? No. Rift crushes them in the classes area, sorry man. If you count just the callings, then sure, but that is hardly fair. Each soul is a class.

And yes, WoW's world is larger. It has been given several expansions as well. And until recently, half the land mass was basically useless anyway, with rarely a person going there. Now? Shit, plenty of people dont leave the capitol cities anyway, as they just do dungeons. I would bet 30% of the land mass is still a waste of space, especially most of TBC and the higher level zones of WOTLK. Bigger isnt better.

Flying mounts are nice, but hardly needed. I played AO and LOVED my Yalm, and then went and played WoW before there was flying mounts. Didnt bother me. Just like the lack of flying mounts in many other MMO's didnt bother me. They are hardly a feature to draw people in. Same goes for the underwater zones. Big deal. They were annoying in EQ, and they are annoying in WoW. Besides, WoW just hands you a fast as shit mount, and increased swim speed, and permabreath anyway. Kind of takes away from the whole idea of an underwater world. It was just a colorful zone that everyone could fly in as far as I am concerned.

And every time you change MMOs, you throw your old investment out. By your logic, people should stick with the first MMO they ever played, and never leave it until it is shut down.

Not only a lame post, but you made two threads....

2.4 million? Holy shit! They got this thing crazy cheap, unless they are also adopting all of the debt. I am promise you that making APB likely took a HELL of a lot more money than that. It would be like buying a 2009 BMW for 5 grand.

I find ore harvesting amazingly different with EVE versus Perpetuum. In EVE you fly to an asteroid belt, know instantly what is in the system, target an asteroid, and suck chunks out of it until it is empty. In Perpetuum, there could be ore/whatever anywhere. You need specific probes, which do area scans and localized scans. One to get you near big deposites, and one to refine it down to individual locations once you are in the area. You then target tiles and suck from those tiles. That is worlds different that EVE. The only thing it has in common with EVE is what all harvesting MMOs have in common. You equip some sort of harvesting item (or need it in your inventory) and you find a spot to harvest, and then need to refine it. Perpetuum allows you to map areas out. Hell, if you dont want to mine it yourself, you can still map out places with high concentrations of valuable minerals, and sell that info off to others. EVE? Not so much. Everyone knows where the roid belts are, they are only there for one reason.

That the game has a sci fi theme and a very similar UI does not make it a ripoff of EVE. EVE is much more deep, with a LOT more sides. Perpetuum is more shallow in most areas when compared to EVE. Even travel in EVE is different. You cannot warp in Perpetuum. Sure, you walk, SLOW AS CRAP, and there are teleporters to travel large distances. But you have to physically get to them. Unlike EVE, where you can just up and warp. It is not like you need an Accelerator gate to do any sort of fast travel, and the worm holes are just to make the game more segregated, and feel larger. If you want to split hairs, EVE is a MASSIVE rippoff of both Elite and Freelancer. Big deal. Those games had good ideas, and EVE used some of them in their game. That is what makes people successful.

Edit: UI, not AI.

Originally posted by JVasquez

i do see your point but your wrong. combat system in eve and perpetuum is click the button, the guy shoots tell you trun it off. Thats it. Other games. Click the auto attack, then click the move you want to do, depending on the game you might have to use a certain move as a combo or maybe your have to use a move to build up points of some sort. No other game uses just auto attack other then eve and perpetuum.

Most games do not use teleporters as their only means of travel, its there just to get people to one spot and back. Horses and boats are nothing like eve or perpetuums travel, you have to sit and watch you guy travel its not instant, and most games you can be attacked well travelling. perpetuum you go to a jump point (or whatever they call it), it instantly shoots you to another map JUST LIKE eve. That is nothing like any other game, if it is tell me which one.

They use cpu and power to equip and if you run out,even though you can use the item no restrictions stopping you, you can't fit it.  Other games if you are the right level you can use it. Nothing tells me i can't use a certain sword and sheild because i ran out of something. If the spots open and im the level needed i can use it. CPU and power is the most ripped off thing in the game. Its exactly the same.

The crafting i will say is very simalar to other mmos on both games. But lets look at the crafting in eve and perpetuum. Eve- mine with mining laser attached to ship, reprocess ore to mineral in station to sell or use making stuff. Perpetuum- mine with mining laser attached to robot, reprocess ore to minerals in station to sell or use making stuff. Thats different.

Its the same game with minor changes.

Rip off of another game, come up with your own ideas.

You have fully missed my point. My point was not that EVE and Perpetuum are like all other games, it is that you are claiming that they ripped EVE off and it is wrong, and yet most other MMO's run like how I said. Sure, Perpetuum has click, target, auto attack (although there is more to it than that, but yes) but look at any other MMO. Click, cast spells/skills. They are all the same. Are you going to claim that they are all a ripoff of the original that used that model? And if new games come out with the "EVE way" of combat, does that suddenly make them not a ripoff, because they are more common?

And you have obviously never played Anarchy Online, which you can very easily not have enough of whatever to use something. And there have been other games as well. Sure, are they exactly power and CPU? No. Anarchy does use RAM for how many buffs you can have, for example. And really, it is a ship. In real life, what dictates what your ship would be able to do? That is right, how many places there are to mount guns, how much power you can pull from the powerplant, and whether or not it has the processing power to use all the systems. That is not a ripoff, that is real world common sense. Would you feel better if they called it Electricity Reserves and Processing Power?

And for the mining and crafting, lets look at WoW. WoW-Mine with mining pick equiped to character, smelt ore to metal at smelting point, sell or use to make stuff. Hmm... Seems pretty similar.

Originally posted by JVasquez

wow is not the exact same game as others. This game has the same menus, combat system, traveling, its the same with power and cpu to equip your guys, same crafting same missions same almost everything. You can't say it isn't because its too obvious. They copied another game and are trying to make money off it.

It is hardly the same game. I loved EVE. I am not a fan of Perpetuum, period. They are similar, and yes, their menus are fairly identical, but not the same game. It uses the same combat system? Like most MMOs do? Same traveling systems? Like most other MMOs? (see mounts, boats, portals, teleporters) They use CPU and Power to equip, similar to most MMOs that have class and level, right? Same crafting? Like most MMOs, right? Do you see the point here?

Star Craft, with three factions, not any alliance or exclusion bullshit. You can play as one of the three, and have some good old fashioned PVP, with obvious good PvE as well.