Originally posted by tazarconan

Originally posted by rdash

Originally posted by tazarconan

Since GW2 is build on the concept that gear aint affecting stats at least not in the way it happens in the rest mmorpg's money economy crafting is doomed only to be around for cosmetic reasons.

In fact money have no value here since there is no point to gather money since u cant enchant gear,or go buy x uber item or gems to further improve it,therefore crafting and the whole economy system are  shallow or someone could say it does not even exist.

 

Yeah, because you can't have economy that 's built on cosmetic values. I mean, gold (foundation of so many economies) was clearly always valued because of it's usefuleness, not looks and rarity.

Usefulness has nothing to do with depth of economy. Nothing. There are dozens of real world markets built on vanity that prove that.

Hmm you are implying ppl will gather gold just so they can buy x armour just because it looks pretier but with same stats than their current armour?

Just about every girl I've ever gamed with would do that. People could probably make a fortune just crafting cosmetic items for girls.

Originally posted by stealthbr

Originally posted by mezlabor

I played DND for years and I completly disagree that gear grinding was a fundamental part of of the game. There is character progression like all rpgs but the progression focused on your levels and fundamental abilities. The style of the DM is all important in DnD monty haul campaigns are gear based but its also notorious for being synomous with a bad dm. Most campaigns dont even reach the level cap of 20 and the epic level system in d20 was reviled as being horribly broken.

The fun dnd was the journey. Most people I played with didn't sit there at level cap grinding better and better gear. Most players retired there level 20 characters.

I'm not talking about gear grinding, I'm talking about power progression. They're different.

 

There is power progession. As you level you learn new powers and traits. How is that any different from dnd?

Originally posted by daniel!!!

7457

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Originally posted by stealthbr

Originally posted by Rivalen

Which can be attained by more things then gear and stats.

I do believe you see progression as your character reaching "god like" power over all PCs and NPCs and while that is fine in single player games it's not in MMOs.

As simple as that.

MMORPGs cannot follow the same rules as traditional RPGs, otherwise you'll always have an amazing power gap between recent players, veteran players and players that play for more then 4 hours a day.

Also, it becomes hell to accomodate pve due to that power gap, making most of the content obsolete to a very small percentage of the players and too hard to some other percentage.

This is when things like "arena gear" or "badge gear" starts and makes all content obsolete.

 

What you want is one of the greatest design flaws in Themepark MMOs.

It's one of the staples that defines the genre and goes all the way back to 1974's Dungeons and Dragons. Without character power progression and development, I see very little that makes it an RPG, more like an action/adventure game.

I played DND for years and I completly disagree that gear grinding was a fundamental part of of the game. There is character progression like all rpgs but the progression focused on your levels and fundamental abilities. The style of the DM is all important in DnD monty haul campaigns are gear based but its also notorious for being synomous with a bad dm. Most campaigns dont even reach the level cap of 20 and the epic level system in d20 was reviled as being horribly broken.

The fun dnd was the journey. Most people I played with didn't sit there at level cap grinding better and better gear. Most players retired there level 20 characters.

Its sad that people have become so indoctrinicated into the gear grind they cant fanthom progression or a game without it. This is why i think ultimatly GW2 will cater to a niche of us who are sick of the gear grind.

@ Kramt No, You learn new skills to use in different situations allowing you to expand your toolbox of skills. if I understand correctly theres a pretty hard limit on how much damage a particular skill will do with traits but you can leanr new skills to expand the situations you can be effective in. This is part speculation based on what I've read and seen of the trait trees.

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Originally posted by Thodra

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Originally posted by mezlabor

I think it will be MUCH more social then SWTOR.
But honestly what did you expect from SWTOR? Bioware are single player game makers who tried to make a single player MMO. What else would you expect?
Arenanet has been stressing fthe social aspects of the game for some time now. One of the devs even said Arenanet is not a game company they are a community builder. Things like the Dynamic events and WvWvW open pvp look like they will encourage a lot of social play.
The bottom line with any mmo however is how the playerbase recieves it. The tools are all being put into the game to be a very social expereince it will be up to us now as players to use them.

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I really hope it will be much more social than SWTOR. Been waiting for SWTOR for like 4 years. Already beginning to dislike it, had such a high hope for that game. Special i thought there were more social things in the game... I LOVE MMORPG's but SWTOR just, i dunno, hard to explain really. Something missing in that game, where this game, sounds like pure fun.
What about GW1, did it have a huge playerbase?

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Swtor is a great single player game. But the design of the game really seems to discourage group play. For instance you can start doing group content fairly early on however you dont get all your tools for your class role until around level 30. Thats over halfway to cap. Meanwhile your companions start the game with more tools then a player does for their role. For instance Kaliyo has a group taunt, single taunt, and pull from the get go. I didn't have all 3 taunts on my BH until level 30. Your dead on with SWTOR being a very solo oriented game.

GW2 is built from the ground up to engage in social play. Where as SWTOR was built from the ground up to engange you in a personal story. Thats not to say GW2 wont engange you in a personal story it just doesn't seem to be built to emphasize a solo experience the way that SWTOR was. Things like the Dynamic event system and the mists open pvp area are designed to be group oriented social play.
 
Bioware built what they knew how to build a great single player rpg, then they tacked on mmo elements to the single player experience which was the core of the game. Arenanet seems to be trying to incorporate the single player story into a dynamic living and yes social world from the ground up.
Guildwars 1 sold 6 million copies so yea there was/is a big player base there.
And Yes GW2 is continiung the b2p model of GW1

I think it will be MUCH more social then SWTOR.

But honestly what did you expect from SWTOR? Bioware are single player game makers who tried to make a single player MMO. What else would you expect?

Arenanet has been stressing fthe social aspects of the game for some time now. One of the devs even said Arenanet is not a game company they are a community builder. Things like the Dynamic events and WvWvW open pvp look like they will encourage a lot of social play.

The bottom line with any mmo however is how the playerbase recieves it. The tools are all being put into the game to be a very social expereince it will be up to us now as players to use them.

I dont think it will change the industry because I think most mmo gamers are indoctrinated into the gear grind. I can't wait for GW2 I hope it does well but I thikn even if it does it will cater to a niche of gamers disillusioned with the gear grind and static nature of mmos. I dont think the majority of modern mmo gamers will get what GW2 is trying to do. Maybe Im just cynical.

I for one wont miss the gear treadmill. I've always enjoyed the journey more then the destination. The last thing I want from an mmo is to spend months running the same raids over and over for better gear thats obsolete a few months later. Good Riddance. I'll take triats and enchants that will always be useful over the gear treadmill anyday.

Games and movies are always released on tuesdays.

I agree with the sentiments in this article. My Favorite MMOS are EVE online and FFXI and both games are marked by a very very long journey. The Journey tho is what I always enjoy the most. I played wow back when it was a much slower leveling proess. I enjoyed the ride. Once I hit end game I got bored very very quickly. Looking back on wow I realize the best time I had in that game was leveling and the "endgame" was incredibly dull.

I think this is a pretty fair review of the game. I enjoyed the beta weekend it was fun but other then the story it wasnt very deep or very innovative. Ill play the game at alunch for sure just to play through a few of the stories then most likely quit and go back to eve until gw2 launches.

Originally posted by Urza123

Originally posted by mezlabor

Originally posted by lethys

Originally posted by vesavius

Not a flame, it's just the impression I have had for a long while of this game... Just looking for clarity tbh

 

You guys have traded plexes for ISK for a long time right? Which is a form of buying in game currency for RL money right?

 

This ISK can then be used to buy skills and gear?

 

I only ask beause of the recent outrage over 'P2W'... it seems little has actually changed if you look at the core practise.

 

Can someone explain plz?

This.  Totally forgot about this when reading all the P2Win shenanigans.  Is it because it isn't 1 step, it's three?

 

Now As it Is:  1) Get Plex with real money

2) Exchange Plex for fake money

3) someone mines ore, researches datacores, salavages wrecks

4) someone builds ships to sell on the market with the ore, salvage and researched datacores

5) Get ships, etc. with fake money from the person who built the ship.

 

Versus: 1) Exchange real money for ships, etc.

 

EVE players seem to want apologies from the devs, but the devs have every right to believe that this system would work based on how EVE players have interacted with one another in the past.  It really is baffling to see the kind of backlash that has formed in response to some leaked dox.

I fixed your scenario

The problem with version two is you cut out steps 3 and 4 marginalizing the ingame economy which is one of if not the biggest draw of EVE.

However that doesn't change the fact that it is still Pay 2 Win.

Yes the way system works it currently doesn't ruin the economy inside the game but I can still buy the most pimped out ship in the game with real money by simply buying PLEX.

Current system keeps the value of PLEXs in check, thus if too many people start buying PLEXs to do this the cost of PLEXs will go down BUT that still doesn't change the fact that I can get myself some of the best gear game has to offer with real money (via PLEX conversion).

EVE went P2W long time ago, now people just don't want economy ruined via use of MTs. I generally don't mind people buying PLEX to get ISK but especially at early stages it is becoming a nesseaty to compete. Having stayed at some of the noob corps over the last 3 months it always comes down people saying I don't want to grind ISK to BS I will just go buy PLEX. From one perspective it does save them time from another, people don't value ships and ISK as much as they did prior to PLEX, since all it comes down to spending 15$  to get PLEX, selling it and buying 3 battleships.

Nah good old EVE that so many of us grew to love is gone. For many of us it just didn't click until now.

if you want to look at it as p2w I dont care. We aren't angery about p2w perse but the damage to the economy that the above scenario would bring. I think there would be far less resitance to it if they were say selling bpcs that required people to actually gather resources and build things in game. Whether its p2w or not is a semantic issue the real issue is the damage to the economy in game.

Originally posted by lethys

Originally posted by vesavius

Not a flame, it's just the impression I have had for a long while of this game... Just looking for clarity tbh

 

You guys have traded plexes for ISK for a long time right? Which is a form of buying in game currency for RL money right?

 

This ISK can then be used to buy skills and gear?

 

I only ask beause of the recent outrage over 'P2W'... it seems little has actually changed if you look at the core practise.

 

Can someone explain plz?

This.  Totally forgot about this when reading all the P2Win shenanigans.  Is it because it isn't 1 step, it's three?

 

Now As it Is:  1) Get Plex with real money

2) Exchange Plex for fake money

3) someone mines ore, researches datacores, salavages wrecks

4) someone builds ships to sell on the market with the ore, salvage and researched datacores

5) Get ships, etc. with fake money from the person who built the ship.

 

Versus: 1) Exchange real money for ships, etc.

 

EVE players seem to want apologies from the devs, but the devs have every right to believe that this system would work based on how EVE players have interacted with one another in the past.  It really is baffling to see the kind of backlash that has formed in response to some leaked dox.

I fixed your scenario

The problem with version two is you cut out steps 3 and 4 marginalizing the ingame economy which is one of if not the biggest draw of EVE.

Im guess Im just lucky in that I enjoy the game for what it is as it is and not for what it "could be" or "should be" or what I "want it to be."

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by maskedweasel

They are way off the mark on this one.  They should be releasing information on next months content  roughly a week from today.  Either they'll push next months content back again, or they'll cut the valentines day content short (which they should do) but its obvious they didn't plan on having to fix all of these issues this month.

 

Seriously, the amount of exploits and issues they've had over the first month needed fixing.  They chose to output everything in one single patcfh rather than employ hotfixes as issues came up... likely because of the approval process for the PS3.  

 

That the patch took nearly 2-3 weeks longer to get out than they were probably planning does harm the game quite a bit,  but in the end, if the problems are fixed, it will be worth it to me at least.   I won't be resubbing next month if they don't release content much closer to the monthly renewal date.   This months new content will only be there for a week before I have to renew again....  this should not be the norm for a game saying their monthly content should keep people resubbing.

 

What I don't get is how it took this much time for their 150+ man staff to get this 'holiday' patch out. I understand PSN is the scape goat, but really, that's a HUGE staff for a game. The content should have been more than a holiday event and new quest.

 

How about a new race, new duo and new raid? It WASN't Just the holiday event and the quest.  A lot of much needed bug fixes came and also some new ones Omac was bugged for me tonight and I hated that they removed the leave button from the alerts menu. Adding / to open chat is hardly the fix chat needed.

Originally posted by jpnole

We'll see what it looks like when the patch hits. Honestly, nothing less than a total overhaul of the chat, UI and a good difficulty nerf will bring DCUO back from the declining subs. Also don't forget the PVP exploits, poor skill/power descriptions and wimpy controller role.

While on the patch subject, who releases Valentines content on Feb 22nd???

Seriously If your having problems with the games difficulty its a lrn2play issue. The game needs HARDER Raids and Alerts not easier ones.  I can knock out all the Duos in 15-30 minutes without dying ever. And thats ALL of them in 15-30 minutes not one of them. The first three Alerts aren't hard once you learn them and have the right gear and the same is true for the harder of the three except a few bosses here and there its mostly a cakewalk.  once you have the right gear and a good group the raids are mostly pretty easy too.

The chat sucks I agree there it really needs a lot of work and adding a / command to open the quick chat is a bandaid on a gaping wound.  Just not enough it really does need an overhaul but its not killing the game for me. The ui is slow and Id like more options to open the exact menu I want instead of opening one then clicking to open another. Neither of these are game killers for me tho.

Originally posted by jpnole

Originally posted by erikk3189

Not too long ago someone started a thread here stating the level 30 missions were too difficult to solo and this person was correct. I'm referring to the level 30 missions which you get at Legion of Doom. I'm aware some of these quests say you need a group but the ones that don't say this should not be so difficult a 30 Fire Tank gets wiped out real quick.

I solo-ed from the start to level 30, only running with one or more players just 4 times and I barely ever died. Then I try to run a quest which didn't say to group up and I couldn't get pass the first 5 guys? If you've noticed, the game is practically solo-ed by the large majority of players and then they make it this difficult at 30?

 Basically, because of the way the chat system is set, most players don't bother to chat period, and especially in mid-battles. I ran an alert with 3 others and all thru' the quest, no one ever said a word, not once. You had to figure out what the rest were doing instead.  First time I've seen this happen in my many years of mmo's playing.

 I'm seeing less and less players in several of the servers I'm made characters in. You barely see any invites for anything anymore unlike the first and second weeks. The place is becoming a ghost town just like many of the games in SoE's stable.

I admit I enjoyed myself running missions and I like some of the things in the game. But they need to address a few things and chat being one of the main ones.  The honest truth is the game feels more like a regular console game then an mmo. And this is the way many players play it, as if they were the only ones there just with npc's and no other players.

It's a shame, it could of been much better than this.

btw

Many thanks to those who answered my questions thru the first month of play.

Thanks

Yeah that may have been me:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/305822/Finding-endgame-content-very-difficult.html

I'd also add that not only was it too difficult to solo, but I also felt it was too difficult even in duos. I agree with the rest of your points too.

You must be playign with bad people. I sail through my duos everyday and most of the time never die once. Hard modes are a bit tougher, the challenge missions I may die once or twice but usually never more. This stuff isn't hard with the right team, and the solo stuff with the right gear spec and feats.

More then i expected. I had pretty much written this game off before launch when I got a beta invited FFXIV had totally failed and i figured give it a shot. I had a lot of fun in beta and pre ordered the CE. Loving it so far. I'm at 30 on a few characters and still having fun.