All Posts by qombi

Great post. I too agree that is one of the things that made EQ so great that was taken away via expansions. Sometimes people complain and don't realize that some things they complain about is actually things that they like. People will always complain to make things easier but sometimes being difficult keeps people interested. Nothing worth doing is easy.

I too miss classic EQ and there seems there will never be another MMORPG that will be as good as it was. All MMORPGs now days are made too shallow, fast, and easy because they feel that is what people want. Some may but there are alot that miss EQ of old days that someone could capitalize on.

Originally posted by Nadia

 

Originally posted by bezado

 I think that to many expansions is overkill if expansions truely made the game better then why is WOW still strong with 10 million subscribers?

WOWs popularity is not because of lack of expansions

 

 

WOW is going to face similar issues soon for 1 reason alone:

every WOW expansion so far, WOW raises the level cap

 

EQ1,

8 years later with 14 expansions, has raised their level to 80 from 50

 

WOW,

4 years later with 2 expansions (including lichking), has raised their level to 80 from 60

 

wont get any better when WOW is 8 years old and the level cap is 100+

 

 

expansions are a lesser evil when compared to  *levels needed*  for new players

I always find that argument very silly. "Levels needed" comment just shows how out of touch you are with what games are. Games are meant to be fun. Games are not just about the finish line. When you go to purchase single player games do you hunt for the one that takes the less time to complete or the one with the less content to go through? Probably not, then why would you do this in your MMORPGs unless you only play to be better than others.

I myself would pick up a MMORPG that had tons of levels and content if it was all quality and not ridiculous garbage that is EQ today. EQ today became trash after Velious and that is why most don't play. Alot want the game back to the day when it was at it's best.

Unfortunately almost all games are garbage now anyhow.

Originally posted by Lidane

 

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Originally posted by shmashed

 

I am just going to assume you know nothing of Dark Age of Camelot. It would explain a bit of your ignorance. Long ago instead of server merging they resorted to server clustering. There is 4(or 5?) clusters total. The classic server cluster consists of 3 servers and these 3 servers combined usually have 2-3 times the population of the non-classic clusters that consist of 6 servers. Ok, lets put this another way. The 3 classic servers combined have nearly as much population as the 20 non classic servers combined. Now, this is not a newness factor. These classic servers have been around for years (basically since the 2nd or 3rd expansion which screwed the game). These classic servers brought back old players to the game. These classic servers hold a significant population of the daoc playerbase.

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1. I played DAoC for a few months at launch, but quit fairly quickly. But I am familiar with the game.

2. The server clusters you're talking about sound like they took the already existing servers that they were using and split them up into different rulesets. And they added a few newer servers for the existing game. That is not the same as what I'm talking about at all.

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Now please tell me why this would be overly expensive and so ridiculous to have a classic server? This is a fire and forget moneymaker. They just need to make it progress from old world to velious like the old eq did. A very slow pace.

I just dont see where this "money and resources" would have to come from. They merged servers already and probably should again.

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Do you honestly believe that the only thing involved in bringing up a game server is turning it on and forgetting about it? That explains a lot.

 

For SOE to offer up a "Classic EQ" server, they'd have to bring up a new server with a separate and quite frankly outdated client. They'd have to hire GM's to oversee the game on that server to police the players. They'd have to hire someone to maintain the server so if it crashes, or needs to be restarted, or needs to be maintained, there will be someone to do it.

This server wouldn't exist in a vacuum. It would cost them money in terms of the salaries for the people hired to babysit it, and for the server techs needed to run it. Those expenses need to be justified to someone else. A small group of players drowning in nostalgia and chasing after their first kiss again aren't enough for that justification. They would have to show actual profitability before a server like that would be brought online.

Also, at this point, the EQ client is likely merged into one big monolith among all the expansions, just judging by the fact that that's how they sell the game in the stores. You think they just have the old code sitting around in storage somewhere? Pfft. By now, it's all the same code, just given how much work they've put into EQ since Velious. I doubt they'd be all that inclined to even try to dig out just those clients and nothing more. Why would they go back to the past like that? Better to just keep looking forward.

If you want Classic EQ so badly, uninstall the current game from your hard drive, find your old disks, and just install the expansions you want then ignore the rest. Problem solved.

I feel the original trilogy was a 100x a better game than the garbage it is today. There is a certain URL that I will not mention by name that currently has 10,000 people visiting it everyday in support of EQ classic and if it was more well known I bet it would equal the population of the authentic EQ forums.

"If you want Classic EQ so badly, uninstall the current game from your hard drive, find your old disks, and just install the expansions you want then ignore the rest. Problem solved." I don't just install a garbage game and run around and pretend I don't see the garbage. What about the crappy revamps of old zones? Or how the Bazaar effects trading? How about retarded cats on a moon, or the ridiculous PoK floating somewhere you get to by clicking on books in the woods, All races in a big happy floating plane ... I play a game for the whole experience of it being a well crafted game, EQ is a pile of mixed up garbage now that was poorly poorly put together.

Anyhow even if someone was to run around and pretend being in their own little world on the crap that EQ is today, xp rate gain is too fast now, game mechanics have been changed, and fundamental class changes have been made.

Originally posted by Rubakai

FPS games are my mainstay, I play alot of RPG's but I love just jumping onto an FPS game for an hour or two (CS 1.6 (not source :P), COD4 etc, Anway was just wondering what other people think about the lack of them in the market. I know Huxley is in the pipeline, has been for  a while and has come up against  a number of problems (Hellgate does not count, SWG has failed), but this is it, nowhere near the number of fantasy games out there or in development.

I would love a true FPS game set in a situation like the forthcoming Borderlands or anything really. And i mean FPS, not like Tabula Rasa or any third person stuff (although you should be able to zoom out and see the look of your character). I cant think of any real reasons why there arnt any. I can guess some people might say: FPS gamers dont really go for MMO's (not enough market), hard to integrate into PvE etc.

 

Anyway I hope there are some in development for next year. I can only hope

You can play many online FPS but how much farther can you really take them? You said yourself they are fun to just jump on an hour or so. They have no depth and really not much in way of an ability to advance a character. Didn't they have some World War Online not so long back? I wouldn't pay a monthly fee to get on ever so often to play shoot'em up. FPS are just too shallow to expect a monthly fee.

What I dislike is the emphasis on questing. It is stupid to have so many linked quest that require a group to complete. If no one else is on the same part as you then you are out of luck. Don't confuse what I am saying for a bias for solo play over group play. I am quite the opposite. I only enjoy grouping games but I don't need stupid linear quest, I have an imagination.

EQ 1 had it right. Grouping but without quest emphasis. You could find a group easily because everyone needed one and there wasn't some stupid linear quest line that everyone had to complete to play the game. It was fun, social, and very addictive. Somewhere down the line the games have been dumb down and are very shallow as well.

Originally posted by Lidane

 

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Lidane

 

Originally posted by bkmmo

So SOE what is your excuse?

 

I would guess their excuse has to do with unified code.

It's likely more practical for them to have one copy of the game to work on, and a unified client to update across all servers. It's why a Progression server is the closest they've gotten to any sort of "Classic" server-- the entire  current game is still there, it just has to be unlocked.

I'd wager there's more of a chance of a time-locked Progression server (with each expansion unlocking after a certain amount of time instead of their current setup), than there is of them creating a server that simply stops at a certain expansion. A time-locked server wouldn't be that hard, and they could still apply any new patches to it since all that content would be available at some point.

A server that simply stops at a certain point? They've already said that's not happening. But they mentioned variants on Progression, which is about as close as they'll ever get to a "Classic" setup.

No. They could have a single classic server that is never touched like the EQMac server. The EQMac server still has people on it, that should give them a clue. Give us a trilogy server please!

 

You're talking about Mac vs. PC.

Development of EQ on the Mac pretty much stopped after they released the initial client in 2003, most likely because sales were poor. That's why the EQMac server isn't touched. They have no interest in working on it. It still exists solely at their whim, and only because there is a small, but dedicated group that continues to play on it.

On the other hand, development of the PC version has been ongoing. Their primary focus is on the PC version, and in order to streamline their productivity on the game, they likely prefer that all of their PC servers have a single, unified client, which makes things much easier on their end. That's why you'll never see a server like what you want. It's not in their interest to have a PC server that just stops at a certain point. No matter what ruleset they put in (time-locked progression, raid progression, etc.), the core game client on that server will still be the same as every other server for the game.

 

I think one day some MMORPG developers will start have a variety of choices in their servers for different people. Sometimes people leave because of an expansion that hate that ruined the game and sometimes people dislike easy death penalties or dislike pvp etc. You may see servers such as a classic one, pvp, hardcore, casual, etc etc. Options are great.

Originally posted by Lidane

 

Originally posted by bkmmo

So SOE what is your excuse?

 

I would guess their excuse has to do with unified code.

It's likely more practical for them to have one copy of the game to work on, and a unified client to update across all servers. It's why a Progression server is the closest they've gotten to any sort of "Classic" server-- the entire  current game is still there, it just has to be unlocked.

I'd wager there's more of a chance of a time-locked Progression server (with each expansion unlocking after a certain amount of time instead of their current setup), than there is of them creating a server that simply stops at a certain expansion. A time-locked server wouldn't be that hard, and they could still apply any new patches to it since all that content would be available at some point.

A server that simply stops at a certain point? They've already said that's not happening. But they mentioned variants on Progression, which is about as close as they'll ever get to a "Classic" setup.

No. They could have a single classic server that is never touched like the EQMac server. The EQMac server still has people on it, that should give them a clue. Give us a trilogy server please!

Originally posted by Tymora

I shouldn't have written Chinese, I meant  that in general, games made in the east, that are similar to Lineage/Linage II, seem to have players who are not only playing for fun, but also making a living from it as well.  I can't see this being as prevalent in LotRO as it is in many asian mmos, although you do see the Gold seller spams in all mmos.  From experience, I just see more of this from games similar to Lineage/Lineage 2, and games from the east.

I haven't read much about this when it comes to western made games, although the same can be said for both to some degree.

I haven't seen a Chinese mmo as you've described, but I should keep looking, especially if you're correct about scope and such.

 

We use to have some games that required an attention span in the US, EQ1 for an example but it seems the mindset of what is fun in the US and in asian countries is different. Sadly I feel the way they do. Console games are so boringly easy as well now in the US that do not offer any challenge nor do they make you think. The asians purposely ship the easy instant gratification games to the US and not the more difficult ones that require some thinking and time. Sad really.

Not 2d but Rubies of Eventide. Give it a go. In depth character development (you can screw up and affect our character) Challenging, and group play.

Just feels like a game to me. I expect a "world" from my MMORPG. EQ was the last of those for me though. It is an okay game, but that is all it is. Quest, quest, quest, quest .. blah blah blah blah .. do developers think we need linear garbage to keep us entertained? I personally want a world with monsters in it, and some rare ones lurking in cracks here and there. Let me make my own adventures with others ..... you just provide the interesting world to do it in.

EQ was great for this and sadly WoW has made this genre shallow. WoW had some good points but they took away too much of a world feel and turned this genre into just another game and LOTRO just took the baton after WoW passed it to them.

Originally posted by Zathoral
I find posts like these quite funny. Its like you've never played a P2P big name mmorpg before. News flash i havent heard of ANY big name mmorpg that has EVER had a completely open beta. The closest thing has been beta through pre-orders. OPEN BETA IS FOR F2P MMOS. Wow didnt have open beta, eq2 didnt, swg didnt. Why do you think age of conan will?

Actually LOTRO had an open beta, I think they are necessary to this genre to see what you are getting. I found I didn't like LOTRO and didn't waste money on it. I would like to add though it was a smooth running game if you liked it, very little bugs and I commend that.

Whether you agree or not for open betas doesn't matter to me. I will not be the first to purchase a game that I didn't get to try in open beta, I will wait for a few months to read some reviews. If they want my money quicker then open beta is the way to go.

I think constant patches is the downfall of any good MMORPG. A MMORPG gets popular for a reason and that is because it is a good game. I think devs shouldn't even pay much attention to the crying in forums, usaully people want changes for selfish reasons to make the game easier for them or to make their class stronger. Very good post OP. It is a stupid to expect a game to continue to be patched. I think MMORPGs should start at least leaving a few servers expansion free for some customers that do not care to be pushed into a game direction away from the original if they choose not to.

I know I would still be playing EQ if they had this option. They ruined EQ with some expansions and they ruined WoW with the first expansion. Those games are not the same game from when they came out. It is ashame you can never go back and play the originals again, that is why one or two original servers should linger on. I for one hate contant changes in MMORPGs and WoW is idiotic to the extreme on this. What is even stupidier players expect it.

Originally posted by KaltesHerz

 

Originally posted by Spaceman316

Let me ask you guys this. If there was a game where everybody in the game was Black and you had no choice but to be that race would you play it? Be honest with yourself when you answer this question.

 

This is a very sensitive thread and I can see it being closed or deleted fast. I am sure somebody is about to say something really bad.

No I wouldn't. I'm a hella racist pig, I mean I absolutely refuse to play a human type character. I prefer Taurens from WoW,  Dwarves from Lotro, and Nanomage thingies from AO.  The closer to human it appears, the more I hate it.

 

 

If I wanted to be human, I'd live my life.

 

Racism for the win, I HATE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.

I don't know why I am asking this but curiosity is killing me. What is this made up word "hella" everyone seems to be putting in their post? Is it short for "hell of a"? Thanks was curious, seems like the new hip word to say for the kids I guess.

Don't worry like Wow they will cater to the mass cryings for balance and proceed to make balance changes untill each class is boring garbage.

Originally posted by ianubisi

The original EverQuest is exactly what you're looking for.

Correction: The original Everquest is exactly what you are looking for but too bad it no longer exist.

Zoodoo I have to agree with you. I play MMORPG for the social aspect and getting things accomplished with others. I can play single player rpgs offline without a fee every month. MMORPG creators need to realize they need to have different versions of their games for different people. Microsoft and Apple has realized this with OS's, when will game MMORPG makers realize this? MS XP Home and Professional ..etc etc. Everyone has different needs so there needs different servers.

PvP servers, PvE servers, Group play, Solo, Hardcore, Casual etc etc .. people have different needs to have fun.

I read your post but failed to see the detailed well thought out plan to make a progression server work. I only read why it didn't work. I too want to experience EQ the way it was again in the beginning but the progression servers were failed attempts. First off it was just like live just with expansions locked out.

Even the god awful PoP books were in place which was so stupid. That killed immersion from the get go. What most want is a classic server. I mean pure classic. They need to dig up old code from back between the original and velious era and use that for the server. Next the only expansion that would ever be unlocked would be Kunark and Velious. After Velious was unlocked they should give players the option to transfer to a live server, leaving the classic trilogy server in tact for players that want to make this their permanent home.

That is how a progression server would work. Sony themselves said it was the best sales in a long time EQ has seen when the progression servers were introduced. Too bad they don't realize that was because so many want the classic experience back. After everything was unlocked all that sales was gone.

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by britzban

Its not coming back.  You guys with this precu bickering.   Move on.

Hope that sour defeatism works out for you - meanwhile, over at SOE EQ, pre-Luclin servers have just been announced running alongside existihng EQ systems. Will pre-NGE servers soon be announced? Who knows? But, if they are, it will be because many vets showed courage, persistence and ingenuity over the last two years - not you, obviously.

Where is your source for this information? Don't get us old EQ'rs hopes up. If you mean progressive servers .. no thanks.