All Posts by qombi

I am not against solo but I prefer to group. This argument can go both ways. The games after and including WoW "force" you to solo. That is right, they force you to solo to obtain the fastest xp. You are penalized for grouping in today's games and that that should not be so.

Solo is fine but encourage grouping by letting the group get the same xp as you would while solo. This is what needs to change. No more forced solo. I have had people turn down groups in games like WoW because they state "no way, kills the xp" or "you are crazy for grouping all the way, ruining your xp".

Also killing monsters rather than questing should give you a lot of xp. The actual turning in of the quest should provide little extra reward. I don't like "forced" questing. People that like quest still can do quest but those who prefer to make there own adventure should be forced down the fastest xp path.

You say you have a choice. Not really the rest of the playerbase gravitates towards the path of least resistance and you would be left alone. Again questing and solo is okay in my books but I prefer everything to be as equal as possible in XP rewards so we have options. Options are good.

That is my whole issue with MMORPGs. I would love to go back to EQ the way it was but it doesn't exist anymore. It has been changed, modified till it is garbage. In single player rpgs I can still go back and I do relive the wonderful game it was when I played it such as Baldur's Gate.

Unfortunately we can't do this in MMORPGs because the developers of MMORPGs keep advancing their game into heaps of garbage. They should always keep a back up of the game in a classic state in my opinion for ten years down the road, a lot of people would love to come back ot the game they loved.

Originally posted by skeaser

I love it, especially on my cleric, I excel at healing, but I can take a punch and do decent DPS. This would be an ENORMOUS deal if this were a PvP-centric game, but as it is full PvE (unless you're one of the 4 people who play on the PvP server) it is perfectly ok IMO. It let's people have a little more fun without getting as bored of doing the same thing. It also helps, especially with the low pop, in the fact that I can fill multiple roles in a group, reducing the amount of time waiting for a specific group. Just becuase you don't like it, don't make it bad.

It is okay that classes can have some diversity as you speak of such as secondary abilities but that is not what is happening with the shaman. The shaman is now classified as being in every archtype. Read the forum descriptions even under archtypes.

Originally posted by Meridion

Class diversity = good

being able to switch your class from "full damage" to "full healer" while other classes can't = BAD!

 

Its a thin line between choice and driving other classes out of business.

What REALLY is a good thing: Dumping classes alltogether and allowing people to access 2, 3 or more skill trees that they can follow and combine PLUS allowing them to leave their paths and pursue other jobs if  they want to... forcing a mage to compete with a necromant that does as much damage and has pets and can wear medium armor (no specific game, just examples) is a problem, allowing the mage to specialize on swordmastery (e.g.) is a solution

Meridion

 

 

I have to agree with your post. If the game was designed in which all classes can then fine but this game isn't designed like that. One class that can is bad and stupid. The game mechanics and class design is a nice design in it's own right.

If I wanted that design I would play WoW. I don't want a copy cat of WoW, I want a different game. This is absurd they would do this when the game design isn't broken, it works quite well actually.

Originally posted by Vortigon

I missed the OPs post because I was in the wrong instance of this forum.

Simple but beautiful. You couldn't have made your point in a better way. I like it.

Read this post before deciding whether to go to Vanguard. Sony is ruining the original concept just as predicted. Vanguard was designed to have class archtypes; Melee DPS, Tanks, Healers,  Caster DPS. As you can read from the post below now one class can switch it's role which is absurd and goes against the whole system.

How about being true to your game design and not copying some other game called WoW? WoW has done the same thing and there is problems with it. Hybrids have taken the Warrior and Priest's role in WoW. Designers need to have vision of their own rather than copy someone else thinking it will work for their game as it did a completely different game. Everyone would just play WoW if every game out there tries to be it. What would be the point of playing something else?

Anyhow thought people would like to know.

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=33907

I am not sure where that little gnome came from, it has been a while.  I never played CoH so I could not tell you my opinion on that one.  I have always read that there was no group strategy and it was even easier than WoW. Is it true there is no tank and healer? Anyhow, I think I was also turned off by the whole super hero thing. I like fantasy based games myself.

To me it shows Mythic has a backbone and makes me want to play even more. I say woot for Mythic! I am sick of devs kissing the whiny minorities' butts.

Just as the title points out is the fact once a MMORPG is created and then expanded untill it is trash .. which they all end up doing, you can never return. I love going through old single player games again after several years that I enjoyed and enjoying them once again. I would resub to Everquest again if it still existed as it did originally but it doesn't. The game it has become is trash in it's current form.

I think developers should keep a copy of the original game after most of the bugs have been discovered and patched stored away safely for the future. Years later after the game has been destroyed with the expansions, they could rerelease a "classic" experience. I didn't like WoW as much as I did EQ but the original game has already been destroyed as well with it's expansion. It wasn't so great before, now it is complete garbage. These stupid companies always mess with the original game mechanics and vision that brought in all the subs because they listen to the loud minority on message boards in turn ruining what made the game a hit.

You can never go back ... until some devs get smart and save that copy away for the future. I would even say a few servers should always stay up remaining unexpanded upon for folks like me that believe the game will never be better then when it was original created. I would still be on EQ.

I think something may be wrong with the players that play this genre today if anything according to the OP's post. If you only want your online massive world to last one year then yes MMORPGs are not coming out fast enough for you. These games should be worlds though like EQ that people enjoy for many years. They should take a long time to adventure to the end and have a lot of depth.

I think games in this genre keep getting more shallow and easier every time one comes out. They only feel like games now rather than living breathing worlds. I guess that is what some people want is just some more shallow garbage that you finish in a month and then on to the next. I feel that is the problem. We are going to end up with the garbage games that console games have become, less thinking .. more flashy fast graphics with big booms.

I like your idea and it hits on the problem  I think we have with MMORPGs today. Buy creating solo, casual, group, pvp etc you are basically creating different games. I think it would be hard to do with one game because basically you would have to design the game many times. It wouldn't be as simple as small adjustments.

You did hit on some very good points with what is wrong with MMORPGs today though. MMORPGs today are trying to be the game for everyone instead of targetting a certain audience. I think we need games that are focused on the type of servers you mentioned in your post. Hopefully this will happen soon with how popular this genre has become. We need games that are focused on grouping, solo, casual, pvp, pve .. . BUT NOT ALL AT ONCE! This only gives particular type of gamers a mediocre experience. Give me the PvE group oriented player the game I desire.

I am getting sick of the fans that bash any game that doesn't meet the "WoW gaming requirements" that they want. Why do they feel all games need to appeal to them? Why do they feel every game should try to appeal to everyone at once?

I think we need diversity. I don't care if there are some instant gratification, trivial leveling, shallow games such as WoW as long as EVERY game doesn't have to be that way. There are different types of gamers out there believe it or not. Just because was so popular doesn't mean it is the only way. I feel it was at the right time and place. High speed internet is cheaper than ever and PC cost are way down for the power you get. Almost everyone has a PC in there home now.

Yes WoW has introduced a lot of new players to MMORPGs that may have been unaware of them in the past. Does that mean they only want games like WoW now? I think not. There are some that prefer their games to lack any immersion, challenge and to end fast but I bet there are some that have been introduced to MMORPGs and are now looking for something more challenging, long lasting, and group oriented. Everquest was huge in it's time. Who knows where it would be if it was just launched today with better graphics? You can't say because access to great PC hardware and high speed internet has never been this cheap. I feel if EQ Classic was just released today, with today's graphics you would be surprised to how many people play it.

It is time for MMORPGs to target a specific audience and not give us a "trying to please all" MMORPGs.

Vanguard is being killed slowly. The vision is gone, now they are just making it WoW like.

I love all the concepts of Eve. They have one of the best sandbox games around. Their devs are also very talented in what they do. I love the fantasy rpg setting though and dislike sci-fi or I would be playing Eve. When are the Eve Devs going to make a fantasy rpg MMORPG? We can dream right?

Some people coming from WoW forums or these forums going to one where people don't tolerate whining, constantly asking for the game to be made easier or balanced, leet speak, complaining about game features in general that need to be changed to make it more "WoW like" maybe be unpleasantly surprised.

You have to realize these people care more about the game they are playing, they may feel passionate about it.

Originally posted by AckbarNL

 

Originally posted by openedge1

 

I beta'd EQ2 and played it for almost a year.. until right before the server merges... then I couldn't take it any longer and left.  So actually, I do know a thing or two about SoE and EQ2. I don't post much about it because: a)  It's been a while since I've played it and b) I would only have negative things to say about my experience.

 

Yes Openedge, there are others who experience problems with LOTRO... just like in EQ2.  I happened to read a current EQ2 post where someone is leaving the game due to performance and this is on a THREE year old game.  People complain about all MMO's.. not just EQ2 or LOTRO.  No game is perfect for everyone.  You just do a good job at making sure as many people know about every little flaw LOTRO has because you dislike it so.

Please highlight in my post where I said people who do not like the game should not post here.

Of course not everyone will agree that LOTRO is the best MMO today.... just like many people will disagree that EQ2 is the best MMO today.  It's all in what you like.

What's boring to you might be fun to someone else.  You consider LOTRO boring, and I consider EQ2 boring.  The big difference is I respect that people will like and play EQ2 while you feel the need to spread your hate of LOTRO  to as many people as possible.

Shame really.

 

I also never claim EQ2 is the best MMO ever made. I think it is a good MMO, and I enjoy it...but I also have never said EQ2 is the end all be all of MMO's..

It is impressive what has been done with EQ2 in the last two years (since you have NOT been back there)...meanwhile games like WoW stagnate, and LOTRO copies them.

 

Sorry but nothing is realy copyed from EQ2, EQ2 was a terrble game at lanch, (but im sure you were somewere els back then) and took away all credibilty for me, Lotro instead was amzingly good at lanch, infact it was the best mmo lanches ever made, and quality that whats makes or breaks a game for me.

I disagree, EQ was a unique great game at launch. Then they tried to copy WoW and turned it into a poor poor WoW clone. They had such a great game at launch it is ashame they have no backbone.  If they did when people tired of the easy shallow instant gratification that WoW is, they would have loved original EQ 2.

LOTRO is too shallow, easy and fast. There was a chance with that lore to make a wonderful world ..yet they only made a game following WoW. Instant gratification is the name of the game now. Linear stupid questlines, you can't even just go kill monsters with some friends anymore and explore because if you are not questing you are not getting hardly any xp.

Quest should be optional. The levels should last longer. Grouping should be encouraged at all times not for specific quest. Not only I hate all the linear quest, they are also so many stupid quest that has prereqs, players are hardly ever on the same one. Quest to level is bad. In EQ you could go to any place with monsters your level and jump in a group and have a good time. These MMORPGs went from persistant worlds to little rpgs that feel like offline games that last a mere few months.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

So... you start playing the game with 5 friends.  You all level up together for weeks.  You die.  They keep going.  You get to spend a few weeks grinding your toon back up solo. 

Unless you can hit max level and get back into the meat of the game within a few days... I just don't see a 'perma-death' death penalty being that great of an option. 

Level loss, skill loss, xp loss, item decay, item loss, currency loss???  Lose your estate or all in game property?

...

If you are a newb and you don't want to be killed... you have to pay a 'fee' to a 'clan' or 'guild' for their 'protection'. 

Or... if you need to quest in a certain area and it 'belongs' to a certain 'guild' or 'clan'... you have to pay them off so that 1) they won't kill you and/or 2) they will protect you. 

Eve Online... Conan style?

 

 

No one here is arguing for perma-death. Death penalty can mean many things. If you think one death is going to leave you in the dust as you put it, then are mistaken. EQ had death penalities and people died and yet still was able to continue playing with friends. It didn't ruin you it just made you be more cautious. Games need some penalties in place for bad game play. And to the person that acts as if AOC is going to take along time to level in, I would guess that you are wrong.

It is following the most easy game ever to level and that was WoW where levels meant nothing. Leveling is trivial in WoW. I gaurantee AOC will be following the same philosphy easy shallow instant gratification game.

Originally posted by safwd

You are right, the flame war that insued was ridiculous. But i really doubt that the OP really wanted to hear reasons why people want a harsher DP in games. Actual reasons which sound valid have been given but they are met with ridicule.

This is why it is really an issue for me. I can understand why some dont want a harsh DP, alot of the crowd that started with EQ, UO, AC dont have the time they once did to play video games and a harsh DP makes the time they have seem less. I can understand that, though i dont share in it, i also have less time to play games then i did when i started EQ, actually it is more that i choose to play less because i probably could play for 4-5 hours a day still, i just dont want to. At  best i will probably play a game 5-8 hours a week now, if that, and i still want a game like EQ vis a game like WoW.

The new crowd is what bothers me. The crowd that never played a game with a harsh DP, the crowd that started with say EQ2, WoW or LoTRs. Now every game has to be like those and since the community who plays MMOs has grown so much due to this new crowd they have a large voice which the Devs tend to listen to. 5 years ago the MMO community was content having games that catered to different playstyles, sure we talked smack about each other but we didnt really try to change games. That isnt the case now. Now a game goes into development and they post what they are planning on having in the game and it gets jumped on by a pack of wolves. There seems to be a set formula now for games and if it is deviated from the game gets destroyed. PoTBS gets destroyed in the forums yet there are people who enjoy it, and enough people to make the game profitable. TR is the same way. These two games are different from the WoW formula so they get destroyed on the boards. I dont care for either of them myself but i truely hope that they succeed because if they get shut down due to all the naysayers then it is just one more step in the direction of all MMOs  being WoW clones because no one is willing to try something different.

Not all games have to be the same, nor should they. Diversity is the best thing that could happen to this genre.

I have read a lot of your post and I have to agree with everything you write. Players need to understand not every game should be same. Diversity like you said is a good thing. We have it in single player games and we should as well in MMORPGs. After WoWs big take over in the MMORPG market I feel other companies would be more profitable going after certain type of gamers for their game rather than please them all approach to pull chunks away from the giant. That is how it will be done in the future I believe instead of the please the all approach which in the end gives the player a mediocre experience.

There is a audience out there right now that is untapped and that is the crowd that is looking for challenge, harsher penalties, more of an adult mmorpg that takes some time to play. When a company comes around to making this game that is well designed and plays as smooth as WoW does .. you will see a big audience for it. It may not be as giant as WoW's population but I think it will take a chunk out of WoW's audience that wants that experience. I also think a solid PvP game will do the same and so on. I think the future will show after WoWs big success the days are over when one company holds all the cards. After WoWs success there will be too much competition for the one MMORPG takes all philosphy. I don't think we will see a big giant like WoW again.

WoW won't be killed by another MMORPG it's population will just gradually get lower as more specific MMORPGs targetted towards different crowds take chunks out of it. That is my view on it. MMORPGs are seen as gold mines now and there will be many many in the future. They better start making themselves stand out to a particular audience.